Llwellyn Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I wish that there were non-Christian, humanist writers and thinkers who could encourage me to become a better person and to sacrifice myself for others. Outside of Christianity, there is pop-culture which is very shallow, selfish, and narcissistic. If I love Goodness, Truth, and Self-Sacrifice, then where can I turn? I wish that Christians weren't the only ones talking about things that matter most to me.... I don't care if I'm damned. Threats of hell are completely meaningless to me. Yahweh's promised curses do not move me the least bit. BUT, I want to learn how better to sacrifice myself for my girlfriend, how better to repent for the wrongs that I have done, and how better to lay down my life for the lives of others. But I can't turn on the TV and get any wisdom on these points. I can't read a popular book to develop better judgment. And the "self-help" section is also narrowly focused on self-improvement for its own sake. I like the books of C.S. Lewis and the music of Fernando Ortega because it is raw and real, it is encouraging of virtue. But they are both Christians. Where are the non-Christians who can help me to become an authentic human, and can help me to get over myself? Surely Christians cannot be the only ones who care about Goodness, faithfulness, honesty, and setting the needs of others over your own needs?!? Can anyone recommend to me a book by a non-Christian who encourages true virtue and a life that I can be proud of? I have the book "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Krankl, so I'm going to start there. In that book, this non-Christian says: "The salvation of man is through love and in love." What other non-Christians care about the beautification of the human community and the human soul? Are Christians the only ones who care about salvation, self-abnegation, and value? Are there non-Christians who can sing songs with as much meaning as this song by Fernando Ortega?: I'd hate to think that Christians alone care about salvation, justice and worth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRDWarrior Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 If you honestly think only Christians say these things, then you haven't bothered looking, well, anywhere. There are a lot of people, groups and organizations that encourage humanism and general betterment of the world around us. There are probably numerous groups right in your area, look into any volunteer organization, there is very little selfish about volunteering other than feeling good about yourself and what you are doing, and I've yet to find a single volunteer group who wasn't in dire need of help. Find a cause you personally feel compelled about, and go do something about it rather than hoping for some fluffy BS about self-sacrifice. Christians talk an awful lot about such things, yet I have found more people outside of church walls who actually DO things that affect people/things outside of their circle than I ever did inside a church. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 No, what really sucks is that only Buddhists talk about Goodness, Truth, and Self-sacrifice. http://www.accesstoi...s-essay_35.html ...the illumination of the mind with the light of truth and goodness. ...They must also acquire the spirit of generosity and self-sacrifice (caga) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You will also find the ideal of "selfless service" in Hindu writings. And I don't really think they are necessarily religious either. The gods and the goddesses are to be taken as visualizations of various qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 No, what really sucks is that only Buddhists talk about Goodness, Truth, and Self-sacrifice. http://www.accesstoi...s-essay_35.html ...the illumination of the mind with the light of truth and goodness. ...They must also acquire the spirit of generosity and self-sacrifice (caga) ... You beat me to it. From Shantideva's "The Way of the Bodhisattva": May I be a protector to those without protection, A leader for those who journey, And a boat, a bridge, a passage For those desiring the further shore. May the pain of every living creature Be completely cleared away. May I be the doctor and the medicine And may I be the nurse For all sick beings in the world Until everyone is healed. http://buddhism.about.com/od/mahayanabuddhism/a/bodhisattva-vows.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted October 31, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 31, 2011 my god.........I am sittiing at my computer 'blubbering' over that you tube!! I was already depressed on this monday morning!! I have to go put some disco music on.............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 No, what really sucks is that only Buddhists talk about Goodness, Truth, and Self-sacrifice. http://www.accesstoi...s-essay_35.html ...the illumination of the mind with the light of truth and goodness. ...They must also acquire the spirit of generosity and self-sacrifice (caga) ... Nah. Only the Muslims talk about that: Charity, for which the expression used in the Holy Quran is "spending out of what God has given you", means using your energy, talent, resources, money, possessions, or whatever else, to help and do good to those in need. In Islam charity is very often mentioned alongside prayer because just as the latter is man's relation with God, or man's duty towards God, the former (charity) represents his relation with his fellow-beings, and indeed with all the creation of God. Prayer expresses love for God, submission to Him, and a desire to bring out the Divine qualities that lie hidden in every person. Charity is an expression of sympathy and benevolence towards God's creation, putting into actual practice the lessons you learn in prayer. — from http://www.muslim.or...am/int-is44.htm Or is it only the Humanists? http://www.humanistcharities.org/ The truth is, good, kind-hearted people are good and kind-hearted regardless of their religion or lack thereof. Not sure, though, how many are interested in learning "how better to lay down my life for the lives of others." That strikes me as rather creepy. I think it's better to keep on living and doing as much good as possible throughout your life (if that's what motivates you), because once you "lay down your life," you are of no further good to anyone. Charity, love, and kindness are one thing; an obsession with self-sacrifice is something else altogether and not something healthy, especially if it ties in with an emotionally crippling martyr complex. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'd hate to think that Christians alone care about salvation, justice and worth. I'm not sure why a non-Christian would need to be concerned about "salvation" unless you mean to use the term in some sort of metaphorical or poetic way. Christian "salvation" is based on an awfully woo-woo, fantasy world of unfounded assertions about the human condition. But in terms of the willingness for self sacrifice and the betterment of humanity, I would think developing your capacity for empathy and compassion would help you the most - not a set of books. I think if you love someone, you are willing to sacrifice for them by giving up your time, your resources and your emotional capacity. To develop that in one's self, it is necessary to listen to people, which means being involved enough to develop mutual trust and to elicit a willingness for other persons to tell their story. There is this bunch of folks known as humanists who seem to care about humanity without the need for the Christian religion. You might check up on their writings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree with Humanism. I totally disagree that only xtians talk and write about self-sacrifice. Most xtians write about self-sacrifice and treating others better than themselves because most xtians do not know how to do such things and want a written guide telling them how to be nice to others. The book stores and libraries are full of secular books written to improve oneself, if you need a written guide for it? Can't people just be better people without a zillion and one books telling them how to be a better person? See someone that needs help such as with their rent, groceries, utilities, car payments, clothing, give them some help. There, I just saved you $20 for a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espresso Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I would disagree about even the idea that Christians talk about goodness. They can only be good through Christ, whereas humanists (and many others) can be good through their own power. I personally find that much more empowering and useful when your morals can be valued for their own inherent worthiness. In many cases deconverting leads to a deeper search for meaning and truth. I care a hell of a lot more about how well I spend my life now that I think my consciousness will end in death. I don't have any authors for you off the top of my head, but most humanists have a lot to say about the potential for goodness in humanity and how to be the best self you can be. I definitely would like to read more about how to be the best human I can, and if I come across any I will try to remember to post them. I empathize with the desire to find a spark in written words that will set you alight. Myself, I mix reading with doing, talking, thinking, and the arts; many things give inspiration and enlightenment outside of books. I don't think you will find much on self-sacrifice--I wince at the thought. I think that you might be able to find that sort of feeling you are looking for, but ennobled once you look at it differently. I believe you should do what you can for other people, but you shouldn't help them until you are strong enough in your own self and take care of your own life. I work with non-profits in the city, but it's because I am passionate about the causes and enjoy the work. I don't think that I owe anyone anything, or that if I "sacrifice" myself I will be a better person. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamecock1973 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Most Christians believe that no one can be good or moral at all without god. It is simply impossible! Immorality will run rampant, the streets will be soaked with blood and semen... Well, after years of living in Asia, and even here in "godless" China, I can assure you there is plenty of goodness and self-sacrifice to go around. People just tend to accomplish these things without making a production out of it or blowing their own horns like christians usually do. People are the same whether they are christian, muslim, atheist, or even communist. Some are selfish, some are kind and giving. Those that are compelled to do good do not need an invisible entity to convince them to do so, nor are the selfish assholes changed by religion- they just become hypocrites. Give me an honest, selfish hedonist over a self-righteous hypocrite with the same behavior, any day of the week. On a larger scale, I can think of many nations that are far safer, more moral, and more civilized than "christian america." Of course, satan is much more active in America than, say, godless Japan or Denmark because of all the devout Christians and the spiritual warfare that is taking place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I don't see anything Christian about that song. Possibly the person who wrote it is Christian but so far as I can make out, the words are not. A person seems to be mourning the loss of a brother to death. All humans suffer loss, no matter what our life philosophy, so if the words speak to you at this time of your life I see nothing wrong with listening to this kind of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I hate moralizing, even if it comes from humanists. Nevertheless, I guarantee you truth means a hell of a lot more to me than it does your average xian and I'm generally a good person. Self sacrifice is overrated though. Religion isn't needed for morality and neither are group hugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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