OBEs and premonitions

[Guest paket]

My mother in law honestly claims to have seen dead people.  As in Medium.  Although she only sees people she knows (specifically her mom and brother).  Supposedly, she is (sometimes) paralyzed when she sees them... so I explain it with sleep paralysis.  However, one time (after my husband and I's wedding), she supposedly saw her mom driving a car and cut her and her husband off.  Her husband didn't see the car.  She could have just had a dream while she was sleeping (which is what I suspect). 

 

She also claims to have seen her brother a week or so after he died, dancing in her room, dressed in a robe, and telling her heaven is fun.

 

She also has premonitions.  She knew that she would get in a car wreck the day before she was in a really nasty car accident (but she is a very paranoid person).  She also supposedly knew that her friend's son almost got hit by a train (it was a post-premonition, however... she had the vision two days after it happened...!?!?!?) 

 

 

Thoughts?

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The desire to believe, and the desire for what you believe in to be right, is incredibly strong. Strong enough, I think, to interfere with a person's normal sensory experience. Some cases of visions, trances, tongues are, I believe, advanced forms of self-programming. Tongues are a good example. If a person believes/is taught that tongues are a sign of 'true' conversion (appeal to self-preservation) and are 'the next step' of his faith (appeal to ego), and spends time fervently repeating simplistic phrases, it's no surprise that he eventually works himself into an emotional frenzy that produces what he was after all along. It's self-programming.

 

As far as premonitions go, they are great example of selective filtering. If someone is continuously fearful of something bad happening to her family, life being what it is, she'll eventually be right. Think about all of the people who believe in premonitions, all making little prognostications every day. By sheer dumb luck, a small portion of these will come true. That doesn't mean they have any special 'power', it just means they can play the odds.

 

Consider this experiment: a number of people, say 20 - 50, post lottery predictions wherever they can - forums, blogs, etc. Say 5 - 10 each per day. These predictions would be specific enough to appear credible, yet vauge enough to have a reasonable chance of coming true. Things like "This week's lottery result will contain the number 36". Continue for a while, and eventually you will have quite a few predictions that will have been correct. Create a website pointing to all of your correct predictions, (while leaving out your incorrect ones) and you will appear to have the ability to predict lottery numbers.

 

(of course, if anyone out there does have the ability to predict lottery numbers, I invite them to prove it by messaging them to me. I will happily put your ability to the test, and if you do indeed have that ability, I will also quite happily, humbly and publicly recant)

[Taphophilia]

I went to a Fundy church and spoke in tounges. I had no problem speaking in tounges. I just did it. I thought back about this after my deconversion and realized that I grew up around people who did spoke another language. I was never able to speak the language, but I heard I different sounds different sylibols put together so I it was easy for me to mimmick some incoherent babble.

 

I did go to a Spiritualist church for a while and I can tell you what they believe concerning mediums. They believe that they are a like an instument getting messages from the "spirit world" and pass them on. They relate what dead loved ones have to say to you. That's it.

 

The principles of Spiritualism:

 

We believe in Infinite Intelligence

 

We believe that the phenomena of Nature, both physical

and spiritual are the expression of Infinite Intelligence

 

We affirm that a correct understanding of such expression

and living in accordance therewith constitutes true religion

 

We affirm that the existence and personal identity of the

individual continue after the change called death

 

We affirm that communication with the so called dead is a fact,

scientifically proven by the phenomena of Spiritualism

 

We believe that the highest morality is contained in the golden rule

"whatsoever ye would that others should do unto you

do ye also unto them"

 

We affirm the moral responsibility of individuals and that we

make our own happiness or unhappiness as we obey or

disobey Nature's physical or spiritual laws

 

We affirm that the doorway to reformation is never closed

against any soul here or hereafter

 

Spiritualism is the science, the philosophy and the religion of continuous life,

based upon the demonstrated fact of communication, by means of mediumship,

with those who live in the Spirit World.

[spamandham]

I read a while after I deconverted that birthmarks and night terrors in babies are residual trauma from a past life.

 

...don't believe everything you read.

 

She also has verifiable 100 percent gaydar.  She knows if someone is gay even if THEY don't know it yet.  She IS quite the fag hag though.

 

She has a remarkable ability. She is not unique in her ability to size others up quickly, but it is a special kind of intelligence most of us don't have. But, I don't see how having such a gift is any more evidence of the supernatural than an inate ability at math.

[Taphophilia]

I read a while after I deconverted that birthmarks and night terrors in babies are residual trauma from a past life.

 

...don't believe everything you read.

 

She also has verifiable 100 percent gaydar.  She knows if someone is gay even if THEY don't know it yet.  She IS quite the fag hag though.

 

She has a remarkable ability. She is not unique in her ability to size others up quickly, but it is a special kind of intelligence most of us don't have. But, I don't see how having such a gift is any more evidence of the supernatural than an inate ability at math.

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I don't believe everything I read. That was just something that made me think.

There isn't anything supernatural. I believe everything is natural and we don't know everything.

I can't defend my beliefs that is why they are beliefs. Sometimes I will post things not because I believe them but to organize my thoughts to get differing opinoins because I love the fact that everyone here has such a wide spectrum of opinoins.

I do believe in a collective conscieness/universe concept where we are all connected. That makes me not a Theist, so I could consider myself athiest but I think that is splitting hairs.

[All Gods Fail]

Here's one possible explanation.

 

I've also heard that fighter pilots blacking out from too many g's report NDE-like experiences. Dark tunnel, bright light, feelings of floating, etc.

 

Needless to say, I'm pretty skeptical. With all the high weirdness the human brain is capable of manufacturing, the obvious explanation of NDE's seems the best to me. Your mileage may vary.

[seeker]

There could be natural explanations for these phenomena.  The interaction of time and space or whatever.  There is a book called The Holographic Universe which contains possible explanations for these things; though I haven't read it.

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I haven't read through all the posts in this thread yet so I apologize if anyone else brought up a suggestion on this book. The book starts out great getting into the typical Quantum theory topics and into the Holographic model. Unfortunatly the author spins off onto Indian Shamans, and other mystical crap that I thought derailed the book and turned me off. In fact one of the Shamans who he goes on and on about was on either ABC or NBC during one of those 20/20 shows. He was arrested for molesting and raping children and women. There is a group of americans called "Shaman busters" or "God busters" something like that, they basically go over to India and other third world countrys where these Shamans give live demonstrations of paranormal activity. Its nothing more then David Blain/Chris Angel magic, and these "busters" actually will run up on stage or wherever the Shaman is performing and reveal to the audience that they are frauds. These people risk being killed in doing so but.....ehh..before I go on and on I'll see if I can find a website on them. But my point was be careful with that book. The author seems very flaky.

[spamandham]

Sorry Taph, I didn't mean to imply that you believe everything you read.

 

I believe everything is natural and we don't know everything. 

I can't defend my beliefs that is why they are beliefs.

 

This struck me as odd. If you can't defend them, and you know you can't defend them, then why do you hold them?

[Taphophilia]

Sorry Taph, I didn't mean to imply that you believe everything you read.

 

I believe everything is natural and we don't know everything. 

I can't defend my beliefs that is why they are beliefs.

 

This struck me as odd. If you can't defend them, and you know you can't defend them, then why do you hold them?

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I can't really define my beliefs (so I'm not going to be able to defend them) because they are always in a continual process of evolving. Going through the process of deconverting I understood Christianity was untrue but I still believed in God. Then the concept of God has slowly eroded away with the more I learn.

 

One thing I know to be true and all will agree is that life is a continual process of growth and change.

[Megistias]

When she was a small baby she would have night terrors.  She would scream like someone was murdering her.  I would rush into her room and as soon as she woke up she was fine.

 

Hmmm, we call this "waking someone up from a bad dream".

 

She has a birthmark over her heart and a corresponding one on her back.

 

Ah, yes. We call this "having 2 birthmarks"

 

I read a while after I deconverted that birthmarks and night terrors in babies are residual trauma from a past life.

 

I have a faint birthmark on my left thumb that bears a striking resemblance to Australia - and I like Foster's Lager !! No, wait, it has to be from the past, right ?

 

 

 

 

She also has verifiable 100 percent gaydar.  She knows if someone is gay even if THEY don't know it yet. 

 

Then how, pray tell, do you verify the subject's "gayness".

 

[Taphophilia]

Read my posts above.

 

Anyway about my daughter. I think nature messed up and made her a straight female instead of a gay male. I call her Modonna Wannabe. Think Modonna in her Blonde Ambition tour and that is my daughter. She outragous, over the top, and loves, loves, loves being a "Queen" even though she is a straight little girl.

Even the gay people she knows admit this.

 

I have to say we went through Daniel 1012's friend list and she identified one of his friends as being gay, so I would say her gaydar is not 100 percent verifiable.

[Casey]

A number of soldiers in the Civil War had premonitions it seems. Several are wel-known stories. Does anyone have links for such?

 

I could well believe such things but I suppose no one really knows.

Casey

[FirstInTheDance]

I know from experience that esp phenomena exists and I don't think there is anything supernatural about it. One day, I think, science will prove it.

 

I am no "psychic" and I think most self proclaimed psychics are full of shit, but I have had some experiences that I can't write off as coincidence. One in particular stands out because it was very specific and probably saved my life.

 

I was in a great mood on my way to work one morning, but just as I was about to turn into the parking lot where I work, I had this "vision" of a small grey car rounding the corner and broadsiding me. Surprised by the odd thought, I paused at the entrance for a moment instead of just pulling into the driveway as I'd normally do. Just then, a small grey car came flying around the corner, going WAY too fast. Because I had stopped, it passed just inches in front of my car.

 

I can not explain my "vision" away. I couldn't have known that car was coming around that corner - it was a blind curve! I am not paranoid. I wasn't thinking about car accidents. I have no clue how I knew it was coming, but I did.

[LadyFeline]

I, too, think that most "famous" psychics are full of it.

 

Then again, I've also had experiences that I can't explain.

 

Around Halloween last year, before Vulgaris, TSO and I got our own apartment, I was just waking up when I heard a woman's voice, clear as day, say "It's going to storm tonight". Now, the only other woman in the house was TSO's mom, and it WAS NOT her voice. The TV downstairs was also turned off.

 

But, sure enough, it did storm that evening.

 

I mentioned the incident to my mom about a month later, when she was taking me home for a tooth extraction and Thanksgiving (what a time to have a tooth pulled! Oy) She turned to look at me with this... look on her face, and told me that, that morning she'd been watching the Weather Channel (which she does an awful lot), and had seen the line of storms making their way across the state. And, as she was walking into the kitchen, she said, "Watch out, Gracie, it's going to storm tonight."

 

Then again, stuff like ESP runs in the women on mom's side of the family, so I'm not terribly surprised. And mom reads "open" minds like books sometimes. She scared the living daylights out of my, on that same drive home, when we were driving through one of the towns, and I saw a dog that bore a striking resemblance to my cat, Bear (solid black with a stark white diamond on its chest). I didn't say anything, and barely glanced at the dog - just long enough to get a look at it, and just kinda mused to myself, "Hey, that dog looks like Bear."

Half a second later, mom says, "Hey, that dog looks like Bear."

"...I just thought that, mom."

"I know, I could hear you."

 

....Come to think of it, that might be why mom's so nuts now

[LadyFeline]

When she was a small baby she would have night terrors.  She would scream like someone was murdering her.  I would rush into her room and as soon as she woke up she was fine.

 

Hmmm, we call this "waking someone up from a bad dream".

 

You've obviously:

 

1. Never been around small children who've had nightmares, and

2. Never seen a person who's just suffered a night terror. There is a HUGE difference between a nightmare and a night terror.

 

Small children don't just wake up "fine" from nightmares. They wake up screaming and bawling and terrified because they can't tell that it was just a dream. That's why, when little kids wake up from nightmares, they tend to run straight to mom and dad's bed.

 

Also, night terrors are something else entirely. When a person is experiencing a night terror, their eyes are usually open, they act like they're awake, but their brain (or part of it) is still asleep and stuck dreaming - in short, they're partially awake, but hallucinating.

 

night terror

n.

A state of intense fear and agitation sometimes experienced, especially by children, on awakening from a stage of sleep not associated with dreaming but characterized by extremely vivid hallucinations.

 

What they experience is worse than a nightmare, because it's even harder to tell the difference between dreaming and reality. Night terrors are more terrifying and intense than mere nightmares, and any child who has one isn't going to just "snap out of it" and be fine right away.

 

Don't talk about things you know nothing about.

[blueheron]

This is just some of my random thoughts on the subject.

 

I was very interested in NDE's for a while. There is a website called hhttp://www.near-death.com that I spent time on. Apparently, NDE's or OBE's can occur as a result of death, surgery, dreams, hallucinogens, stress, gravity, electrodes, meditation, deathbed, seizures, relaxation, coma, eye movements, falling, orgasm, mental illness, alien abduction and more.

 

I forget what show I was watching, but on Discovery channel, they hooked electrodes up to this guy and stimulated parts of his brain. He had the same experiences as those who have sleep paralysis, which is similar in some ways to alien abduction: feeling of being watched by a presence, unable to move, peace, etc. Not all at the same time, necessarily.

 

There are people who can have OBE or astral travel at will. You can type in 'astral travel' on google and find lots of stuff.

 

So, I don't know if it is proof that life goes on after death. It sounds though like the mind is capable of amazing stuff which most people have not tapped into. As someone said, it's as though some are born with the ability to use these parts of the brain, the way some people are so good at math and I stink at it. Yet I'm pretty intuitive about what people are thinking/feeling - what some in the New Age would call an "empath". If I worked at it, I'm sure I could develop my mathematical abilities though.

 

Also, I have a birthmark. They aren't that uncommon. And many kids have nightmares or night terrors. Some adults have them. I doubt they are connected in any way to pigment on the skin.

 

My experiences under anasthesia - I think I will be able to just gradually fade out sort of like when falling asleep. But, it's more like one minute I'm looking at the ceiling, hearing the medical staff talk, and the next minute I'm opening my eyes in recovery. There was one time I started to wake up very gradually, catching snippets of what was going on in the room, hearing the voices of the doctor and nurses for example.

 

I always said being "knocked out" for surgery was like having no existence. It was the same as before you were born - you know nothing, you feel nothing. I could be chopped up in a hundred pieces while under anasthesia and never know any different. It is a void, nothingness. You don't know you are "gone" and have no concept of the time.

 

So, I still don't know about life after death. On the NDE site I posted, there are some articles of "evidences" for surviving death. Someone look at them and give your opinion? For example, there is a guy who had been dead for 3 days. He had an OBE and was brought back when someone began performing an autopsy on him. The only explanation I can think of is, his brain activity before actual death and just as he was reviving, was when the experience of OBE occurred, and to him, it seemed like he was having these experiences while dead for 3 days.

[Samurai Tailor]

My point was that no matter how convincing the results, there will always be people who remain unconvinced. Plus, Western culture traditionally rejects the results of such experiments.

Extreme skeptics serve to make scientific methodologies more precise; that should be considered a good thing.

I sincerely doubt that James Randi would accept the results of any experiment that showed any psychic abilities or OBEs any more than Kent Hovind would accept the results of any experiment that proved evolution. But I hope I am proved wrong someday.

Fortunately, Randi is not the final authority on scientific precision.

That's just the Western culture mindset that I was talking about above. As far as I know, there is no more fraud and deception among psychics than there are among any other profession, and yet not many people say that all doctors are quacks or all lawyers are shysters.

Eh? That seems to beg the question: how do we know that any psychics have real abilities in the first place?

That all depends, I suppose. When scientists are proved wrong on a detail of a theory, they don't throw out the whole theory. They modify the theory to fit the new results.

Sometimes. It depends on the theory.

In the same way, just because one OBE experiment failed doesn't mean that OBEs don't exist. And it may surprise you to find out that there have been a lot of scientific experiments done on OBEs. Off the top of my head, the US government did experiments on remote viewing.

Finding virtually nothing, IIRC.

Police also use psychics to help them solve crimes, with remarkable success.

I have to ask for references here.

There's just too much scientific evidence to completely dismiss psychic phenomena, OBEs or the afterlife. At least in my opinion.

Well, IMO, on the pro-side there is a whole shitload of anecdotal rhetoric about OBEs, NDEs, the afterlife, remote viewing, etc., and very little substantive discussion about how we might come to understand what those things are and how they happen.

[euphgeek]

My point was that no matter how convincing the results, there will always be people who remain unconvinced. Plus, Western culture traditionally rejects the results of such experiments.

Extreme skeptics serve to make scientific methodologies more precise; that should be considered a good thing.

True, but there comes a point where it becomes "moving the goalposts".

 

I sincerely doubt that James Randi would accept the results of any experiment that showed any psychic abilities or OBEs any more than Kent Hovind would accept the results of any experiment that proved evolution. But I hope I am proved wrong someday.

Fortunately, Randi is not the final authority on scientific precision.

That's just the Western culture mindset that I was talking about above. As far as I know, there is no more fraud and deception among psychics than there are among any other profession, and yet not many people say that all doctors are quacks or all lawyers are shysters.

Eh? That seems to beg the question: how do we know that any psychics have real abilities in the first place?

If the psychic is reasonably accurate and can't just be chalked up to "cold reading", then there's a good chance that they have real abilities.

 

That all depends, I suppose. When scientists are proved wrong on a detail of a theory, they don't throw out the whole theory. They modify the theory to fit the new results.

Sometimes. It depends on the theory.

In the same way, just because one OBE experiment failed doesn't mean that OBEs don't exist. And it may surprise you to find out that there have been a lot of scientific experiments done on OBEs. Off the top of my head, the US government did experiments on remote viewing.

Finding virtually nothing, IIRC.

Not true. I found a couple of quotes, one by former president Jimmy Carter where they admitted that remote viewing works:

The secret is out: remote viewing exists, it works, it has been tested, proven and used in intelligence for over two decades. The recent (US) government admissions concerning the use of psychic warfare are crucial, irrefutable testimony that what I have said here is the truth...

She went into a trance. And while she was in the trance, she gave us some latitude and longitude figures. We focused our satellite cameras on that point, and the lost plane was there.

recalling a 1978 remote-viewing operation (Schnabel 1997: cover).

 

(Continued)

Police also use psychics to help them solve crimes, with remarkable success.

I have to ask for references here.

Just watch "Psychic Detectives" on CourtTV or "Medium" on NBC, which is about a real-life psychic detective.

There's just too much scientific evidence to completely dismiss psychic phenomena, OBEs or the afterlife. At least in my opinion.

Well, IMO, on the pro-side there is a whole shitload of anecdotal rhetoric about OBEs, NDEs, the afterlife, remote viewing, etc., and very little substantive discussion about how we might come to understand what those things are and how they happen.

Well, I for one would love to see more experiments and more discussion on this. The trouble is that when someone does talk publicly about it, they're seen as some sort of kook or a crackpot. For there to be more discussion about it, the scientific community is going to have to start taking paranormal researchers a bit more seriously.

[Samurai Tailor]

True, but there comes a point where it becomes "moving the goalposts".

Maybe, but formal fallacies like that are usually easy to spot.

If the psychic is reasonably accurate and can't just be chalked up to "cold reading", then there's a good chance that they have real abilities.

Are those really the only alternatives - cold reading and real abilities?

Not true. I found a couple of quotes, one by former president Jimmy Carter where they admitted that remote viewing works:

The secret is out: remote viewing exists, it works, it has been tested, proven and used in intelligence for over two decades. The recent (US) government admissions concerning the use of psychic warfare are crucial, irrefutable testimony that what I have said here is the truth...

I have no idea who "Major David Morehouse" is, what his credentials are, or if there even is a reliable source for this quote.

 

She went into a trance. And while she was in the trance, she gave us some latitude and longitude figures. We focused our satellite cameras on that point, and the lost plane was there.

recalling a 1978 remote-viewing operation (Schnabel 1997: cover).

Jimmy Carter also famously claimed to have encountered extraterrestrials on Earth. Not saying that automatically disqualifies anything he says, just that he is not implicitly credible solely for having been President.

Just watch "Psychic Detectives" on CourtTV or "Medium" on NBC, which is about a real-life psychic detective.

Okay, I was thinking of something a bit more... rigorously researched and edited, perhaps?

 

Well, I for one would love to see more experiments and more discussion on this. The trouble is that when someone does talk publicly about it, they're seen as some sort of kook or a crackpot. For there to be more discussion about it, the scientific community is going to have to start taking paranormal researchers a bit more seriously.

Well, no. An idea does not merit scientific kid-gloves just because it tickles our fancies. "Paranormal researchers" are going to have to do it the hard way, just like Einstein and Darwin.

 

Major paradigm shifts are tough to pull off. And that is as it should be.

[euphgeek]

True, but there comes a point where it becomes "moving the goalposts".

Maybe, but formal fallacies like that are usually easy to spot.

If the psychic is reasonably accurate and can't just be chalked up to "cold reading", then there's a good chance that they have real abilities.

Are those really the only alternatives - cold reading and real abilities?

Well, there's also warm reading and hot reading, both of which require that you know at least a little bit about your subject.

I have no idea who "Major David Morehouse" is, what his credentials are, or if there even is a reliable source for this quote.

Here's a link to an announcement on James Randi's website that gives you a little bit of a background on who he is:

http://www.randi.org/jr/080505potential.html#1

I found it by typing "Major David Morehouse" into Google. It came up as the first result.

Jimmy Carter also famously claimed to have encountered extraterrestrials on Earth. Not saying that automatically disqualifies anything he says, just that he is not implicitly credible solely for having been President.

And how do you know he didn't encounter extraterrestrials?

Just watch "Psychic Detectives" on CourtTV or "Medium" on NBC, which is about a real-life psychic detective.

Okay, I was thinking of something a bit more... rigorously researched and edited, perhaps?

Like what?

Well, I for one would love to see more experiments and more discussion on this. The trouble is that when someone does talk publicly about it, they're seen as some sort of kook or a crackpot. For there to be more discussion about it, the scientific community is going to have to start taking paranormal researchers a bit more seriously.

Well, no. An idea does not merit scientific kid-gloves just because it tickles our fancies. "Paranormal researchers" are going to have to do it the hard way, just like Einstein and Darwin.

 

Major paradigm shifts are tough to pull off. And that is as it should be.

I'm not saying that every idea deserves immediate respect from the scientific community, but it should not be immediately dismissed out of hand, either. All I'm asking for is objectivity, rather than the automatic preconceived notion that paranormal researchers are crackpots.

[Samurai Tailor]

Well, there's also warm reading and hot reading, both of which require that you know at least a little bit about your subject.

I know; my point, however circumspect, is that this is not an issue that reduces easily to a dichotomy. Lots of things can affect the measurement of a particular variable.

I have no idea who "Major David Morehouse" is, what his credentials are, or if there even is a reliable source for this quote.

Here's a link to an announcement on James Randi's website that gives you a little bit of a background on who he is:

http://www.randi.org/jr/080505potential.html#1

I found it by typing "Major David Morehouse" into Google. It came up as the first result.

Well, Randi certainly makes him look like a hack with an agenda. That is to be expected, I suppose.

Jimmy Carter also famously claimed to have encountered extraterrestrials on Earth. Not saying that automatically disqualifies anything he says, just that he is not implicitly credible solely for having been President.

And how do you know he didn't encounter extraterrestrials?

I don't, of course, but you know what they say about extraordinary claims.

Okay, I was thinking of something a bit more... rigorously researched and edited, perhaps?

Like what?

Anything, really, that cannot be easily accused of putting entertainment before objectivity. I am sure there are at least surveys to be found in the scientific literature.

I'm not saying that every idea deserves immediate respect from the scientific community, but it should not be immediately dismissed out of hand, either. All I'm asking for is objectivity, rather than the automatic preconceived notion that paranormal researchers are crackpots.

While there is little question that "paranormal researchers" do not have the grandest reputations, ultimately what we think about the researchers themselves is irrelevant. It is their data and methodologies that must undergo scrutiny and pass muster. And even Randi - say what you will about his sometimes borderline-character-assassination - privileges the empirical aspect.

 

At this point, it can be easy to slip into the 'scientists have an a priori bias against the paranormal' refrain, but please note the utter vastness of the conspiracy that would be necessary to keep it out of the mainstream for so long.

[euphgeek]

Well, there's also warm reading and hot reading, both of which require that you know at least a little bit about your subject.

I know; my point, however circumspect, is that this is not an issue that reduces easily to a dichotomy. Lots of things can affect the measurement of a particular variable.

Here's a possible dichotomy: Either the psychic in question is trying to defraud people or not. Either they are using real abilities or they are not. Of course, if they are using real abilities, there is also the question of how well they are able to use them.

I have no idea who "Major David Morehouse" is, what his credentials are, or if there even is a reliable source for this quote.

Here's a link to an announcement on James Randi's website that gives you a little bit of a background on who he is:

http://www.randi.org/jr/080505potential.html#1

I found it by typing "Major David Morehouse" into Google. It came up as the first result.

Well, Randi certainly makes him look like a hack with an agenda. That is to be expected, I suppose.

Jimmy Carter also famously claimed to have encountered extraterrestrials on Earth. Not saying that automatically disqualifies anything he says, just that he is not implicitly credible solely for having been President.

And how do you know he didn't encounter extraterrestrials?

I don't, of course, but you know what they say about extraordinary claims.

True, but that's the sort of thing that's rather difficult to provide evidence for.

Okay, I was thinking of something a bit more... rigorously researched and edited, perhaps?

Like what?

Anything, really, that cannot be easily accused of putting entertainment before objectivity. I am sure there are at least surveys to be found in the scientific literature.

Could be, I don't know. I tried Googling for some, but was unable to find anything objective.

[euphgeek]

(Continued)

I'm not saying that every idea deserves immediate respect from the scientific community, but it should not be immediately dismissed out of hand, either. All I'm asking for is objectivity, rather than the automatic preconceived notion that paranormal researchers are crackpots.

While there is little question that "paranormal researchers" do not have the grandest reputations, ultimately what we think about the researchers themselves is irrelevant. It is their data and methodologies that must undergo scrutiny and pass muster. And even Randi - say what you will about his sometimes borderline-character-assassination - privileges the empirical aspect.

 

At this point, it can be easy to slip into the 'scientists have an a priori bias against the paranormal' refrain, but please note the utter vastness of the conspiracy that would be necessary to keep it out of the mainstream for so long.

True. And not all scientists have a bias toward the paranormal. Probably the biggest problem for paranormal researchers is that most of the evidence is not repeatable.

[bluewizard]

I had one when I was 10. I could see myself sleeping in the room I was in. I was outside my body and the Grim Reaper was beside me. I couldnt run away from him and I thought I was going to Hell and then my "soul" went back into my body and I woke up. It was a dream i guess.

[HadouKen24]

The last time I checked into the current state of parapsychology, things were at an impasse. Researchers who believe that the paranormal exists were getting readings that indicate the presence of ESP, and more skeptical researchers were not. In other words, the findings were completely inconclusive.

 

There are researchers now trying to work out exactly why this is. The differences show up even when the exact same methodology, location, etc., are used, and the only difference is the researcher (who has no contact with the people being studied, IIRC) administrating the experiment.

 

That said, I've seen fairly convincing demonstrations of what might be called telepathy under semi-controlled conditions. I'm quite confident that no consciously done legerdemain was involved, since I know the people who did it fairly well.