My Nephew Is Making Minimum Payments On Credit Cards And Student Loans

[Jds22]

Cause Jesus is coming back soon and he won't have to pay the loans back anyways.

 

I heard this over Thanksgiving dinner and was pissed. My in-laws were talking about this and nodding in approval over their grandson's faithfulness.

 

I didn't speak up, I didn't want to cause a scene but this really bugs the shit out of me. His parents and grandparents all believe the same thing and nobody is telling him what a bad idea this is. BTW, my in-laws are both in their late 60's and still working since they didn't plan for retirement because, you guessed it, Jesus is coming at any moment.

 

I've thought about sending him a message but then again, he's an adult and capable of making his own decision, even really bad ones.

 

Just venting I guess.

[Ouroboros]

I used to do the same thing. I thought Jesus was coming back tomorrow and didn't take full responsibility for many things in life. That attitude screwed me over big time.

[oddbird1963]

I hate being screwed by my own worldview! Theism ruined my life. And I let it!

[BrotherJosh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

 

Date (BCE) Claimant Description Reference 2800 - c. Assyrians An Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BCE was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." ^[1] 634 Romans Many Romans feared that the city would be destroyed in the 120th year of its founding. There was a myth that 12 eagles had revealed to Romulus a mystical number representing the lifetime of Rome, and some early Romans hypothesized that each eagle represented 10 years. ^[2] 389 Romans Some Romans believed that the mystical number revealed to Romulus represented the number of days in a year, so they expected Rome to be destroyed around 365 AUC (389 BCE) ^[2] Date (CE) Claimant Description Reference 66-70 Essenes It is believed this sect of Jewish ascetics saw the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle. ^[3] 2nd century Montanists Members of the Montanist movement, founded in 156, predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetimes. ^[4] 247 Various Christians The Roman government dramatically increased its persecution of Christians in this year, so much so that many Christians believed that the End had arrived. ^[3] 365 Hilary of Poitiers Announced that the end would happen that year. ^[4] 375-400 Martin of Tours Stated that the world would end before 400. Writing ""There is no doubt that the Antichrist has already been born. Firmly established already in his early years, he will, after reaching maturity, achieve supreme power." ^[5][6] 500 Hippolytus of Rome, Sextus Julius Africanus,Irenaeus All three predicted Jesus would return in the year 500.

[Jds22]

http://en.wikipedia....calyptic_events

 

Date (BCE) Claimant Description Reference 2800 - c. Assyrians An Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BCE was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." ^[1] 634 Romans Many Romans feared that the city would be destroyed in the 120th year of its founding. There was a myth that 12 eagles had revealed to Romulus a mystical number representing the lifetime of Rome, and some early Romans hypothesized that each eagle represented 10 years. ^[2] 389 Romans Some Romans believed that the mystical number revealed to Romulus represented the number of days in a year, so they expected Rome to be destroyed around 365 AUC (389 BCE) ^[2] Date (CE) Claimant Description Reference 66-70 Essenes It is believed this sect of Jewish ascetics saw the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle. ^[3] 2nd century Montanists Members of the Montanist movement, founded in 156, predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetimes. ^[4] 247 Various Christians The Roman government dramatically increased its persecution of Christians in this year, so much so that many Christians believed that the End had arrived. ^[3] 365 Hilary of Poitiers Announced that the end would happen that year. ^[4] 375-400 Martin of Tours Stated that the world would end before 400. Writing ""There is no doubt that the Antichrist has already been born. Firmly established already in his early years, he will, after reaching maturity, achieve supreme power." ^[5][6] 500 Hippolytus of Rome, Sextus Julius Africanus,Irenaeus All three predicted Jesus would return in the year 500.

 

Great link, thanks.

[blackpudd1n]

Maybe you could try and point out that he'd earn brownie points with the Lard when he does come back for faithfully attempting to pay back the money he does owe? I'm not totally up with bible verses and such, but aren't christians meant to show the unsaved how different they are by their faithfulness in all things, including repaying money?

 

If he's that much of a fundy, trying to get him to be responsible by refuting end-time claims might not work. Using the bible and emphasising that his diligence in all areas may save another soul from eternal damnation might hit the spot- at least until he realises the the Lard isn't coming back. At least, if he does have an enlightened moment about what a load of bullshit christianity all is, he won't be in massive debt.

[Tabula Rasa]

Raises hand. I'm guilty of similar. Back during the 80's, what with the cold war threatening to get thermonuclear hot, all the evangelists were saying Christ's return was right around the corner. And like a fool I fell for it Hard. I never moved out of my parent's house, just got crap jobs, and never made anything out of myself.Well,, it's 2011, and I hardly have any money in the bank, five thousand dollars in credit card debt, and am going to have to figure out how to get a decent job to not only support myself, but help out with aging parents.

 

Tell your brother they've been forecasting Christ's return for 2000 years, and he shouldn't assume it'll come in his lifetime.(And of course we know it will never come.)

[centauri]

Cause Jesus is coming back soon and he won't have to pay the loans back anyways.

 

I heard this over Thanksgiving dinner and was pissed. My in-laws were talking about this and nodding in approval over their grandson's faithfulness.

 

I didn't speak up, I didn't want to cause a scene but this really bugs the shit out of me. His parents and grandparents all believe the same thing and nobody is telling him what a bad idea this is. BTW, my in-laws are both in their late 60's and still working since they didn't plan for retirement because, you guessed it, Jesus is coming at any moment.

 

I've thought about sending him a message but then again, he's an adult and capable of making his own decision, even really bad ones.

 

Just venting I guess.

If he were really faithful he wouldn't need a credit card or loans.

He's supposed to be able to ask for anything and the Lord will provide it.

When he falls further and further behind on his credit card balances due to interest accruing faster than he can pay it down, I seriously doubt if Jesus is going to swoop in and rescue his credit rating.

[Sybaris]

gaaaaaahd daaaaaaaayum!!!!

 

I was never a christian which is why I guess have never heard some of the crazy shit you X'rs write about. Now that up there is some certifiable loony tunes quality behavior, no offense. Never would I have ever imagined anyone blowin off their debt cause they thought JC was coming for lunch tomorrow. Wow, just wow.

[Thought2Much]

Sybaris, if I were to take the time to list out all of the crazy stuff I've seen from pentecostals over the last twenty years or so, you would think I had spent that time in an insane asylum instead of church.

[Guest wester]

It is all about the interest rate. If your relatives had any sense, they would offer the kid a 0% loan on all or any part of his debts on grounds that he pay back all the principal. That would be much more helpful than leaving him to the wolves of the high interest credit card companies and other student loansharks.

 

It is actually not such a bad idea to make low payments in an inflationary environment like the one we are experiencing now. What do I mean? Go to the store and compare prices today to last year, three years ago, 5 and 10 years ago. Look at gas and electric prices too. Both food and energy are conveniently missing from inflation rates. That means debt dollars will be worth considerably less in the future, making low payments a good idea (and not because of the rapture, which has been imminent for the past 75 generations). However, credit card companies charge impossible to repay 30% and 40% interest on credit card loans which is way over inflation rates.

 

Hammer his rapturfied a$$ about getting his interest rates down and you might do the boy some good. Otherwise he might be praying the rest of his life, like my mom is, for the good lord to drop a magic check on him from heaven.

[R. S. Martin]

gaaaaaahd daaaaaaaayum!!!!

 

I was never a christian which is why I guess have never heard some of the crazy shit you X'rs write about. Now that up there is some certifiable loony tunes quality behavior, no offense. Never would I have ever imagined anyone blowin off their debt cause they thought JC was coming for lunch tomorrow. Wow, just wow.

 

Not all Christians think like that, Sybaris.

 

The brand of Christianity I come from believed credit cards were of the devil and that debt was something you should avoid if possible. They weren't very strong on apocalyptic beliefs though they believed that Jesus could come any moment like he said in Matt. 24. This meant that they considered it wise to be prepared to die tomorrow but also to plan as though one were here to stay. Which, I believe, is pretty much the way all of us have to deal with mortality.

 

This practical common sense approach to life included a solid income to avoid or pay off debt and support oneself and family--and save for old age.

 

I think most Christians hold to these principles. And I agree with those in this thread who suggest to encourage the boy to try and pay off his principle on whatever grounds makes sense to him--religious or otherwise. There is strong biblical basis against becoming debt-ridden. Rom. 13:8 has been used throughout Christendom to condemn going into debt. It says in part "owe no man anything."

[VacuumFlux]

gaaaaaahd daaaaaaaayum!!!!

 

I was never a christian which is why I guess have never heard some of the crazy shit you X'rs write about. Now that up there is some certifiable loony tunes quality behavior, no offense. Never would I have ever imagined anyone blowin off their debt cause they thought JC was coming for lunch tomorrow. Wow, just wow.

 

Not all Christians think like that, Sybaris.

 

The brand of Christianity I come from believed credit cards were of the devil and that debt was something you should avoid if possible. They weren't very strong on apocalyptic beliefs though they believed that Jesus could come any moment like he said in Matt. 24. This meant that they considered it wise to be prepared to die tomorrow but also to plan as though one were here to stay. Which, I believe, is pretty much the way all of us have to deal with mortality.

 

This practical common sense approach to life included a solid income to avoid or pay off debt and support oneself and family--and save for old age.

 

I think most Christians hold to these principles. And I agree with those in this thread who suggest to encourage the boy to try and pay off his principle on whatever grounds makes sense to him--religious or otherwise. There is strong biblical basis against becoming debt-ridden. Rom. 13:8 has been used throughout Christendom to condemn going into debt. It says in part "owe no man anything."

 

This is what I'm used to hearing. There's even some (free?) Christian debt-help group that my parents used after being irresponsible, where they tore up their credit cards and promised not to open any more in exchange for having the group negotiate a lower interest rate on the existing debt. I think there was also some help with budgeting and stuff.

 

I ended up with something of the opposite problem. After seeing my parents screw themselves over, and hearing all the Bible-based preaching against getting into debt, I was horrified when I had to take out a small student loan and thought that made me immoral. On the plus side, I budget well and never make large purchases that I haven't saved up for. On the minus side, my credit rating is horrible because I haven't been in enough debt to prove that I am responsible enough to pay it back. I need to get myself a credit card (blech!) just to have an established line of credit in case I ever need to do something like get a mortgage.

[blackpudd1n]

I got myself into some serious debt a few years ago. I got a car loan not long before I came down with bipolar, and at the same time had a credit card with a $9600 limit, which I maxed out in many pre-diagnosis spending sprees; I had a couple of minor car accidents which I agreed to pay off through debt-collection; and I ended up in debt with an old phone bill, due to my bipolar urges to talk, talk, talk. At the end of 2008 I had to go on the disability pension, because I was just too unwell to work. It's taken me years to get on top of all that debt. My grandfather helped out with the car repayments, which I am very grateful for. I took out loan insurance in the advent of getting sick, disabled, or unemployed, but even though I recently finished the loan, I am still fighting with the insurance company to be back paid the amount I have paid. The dispute is now with the Financial Ombudsman Service; I would like to get some of my grandfather's money back. With all of my other debts, I went into debt collection, paying them off in small fortnightly amounts. I have had to learn to budget hard, but it has paid off- I got another two debts cleared recently. With the credit card, I have a hardship agreement in place. As long as I continue to make my agreed fortnightly repayments, and do not use the card, the interest on the remaining debt is frozen, and no action will be taken against me. When I recently cleared two debts, I increased the amount I was paying off the credit card by the fortnightly repayments of the other two debts. Ironically, though I have been in debt collection, by faithfully sticking to my payment plans I have saved my credit rating. Each of the debt collection agencies can provide a credit history should I go for a loan in the future, and it is actually a better credit history, because I have proven that I will repay the money I owe should I fall on hard times, I won't just walk away from a debt. At the current amount of agreed payments, I still have another five years to go on the credit card debt. My plan for next year is to increase my payments, or add payments where I can, to bring the debt down, and to continue to build a savings fund. My fiancee and I also take measures to safe-guard ourselves from any unexpected financial drama, by doing things like adding an extra $10 to the rent each week. Should something happen then can just use the rent money to pay for the unexpected occurrence, or borrow the money until the next rent pay-day, which we pay fortnightly.

 

I never want to see a credit card again, and should I ever need to replace my car, if I have to get a loan, it will be through the bank, and not a finance company. Now that I understand how interest is calculated, too, in the event of ever needing a loan, I will be getting as far in front as I can with it. I have learned the hard way about debt and managing money, and I don't ever want to live hand-to-mouth again!

[Onyx]

http://en.wikipedia....calyptic_events

 

Date (BCE) Claimant Description Reference 2800 - c. Assyrians An Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BCE was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." ^[1] 634 Romans Many Romans feared that the city would be destroyed in the 120th year of its founding. There was a myth that 12 eagles had revealed to Romulus a mystical number representing the lifetime of Rome, and some early Romans hypothesized that each eagle represented 10 years. ^[2] 389 Romans Some Romans believed that the mystical number revealed to Romulus represented the number of days in a year, so they expected Rome to be destroyed around 365 AUC (389 BCE) ^[2] Date (CE) Claimant Description Reference 66-70 Essenes It is believed this sect of Jewish ascetics saw the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle. ^[3] 2nd century Montanists Members of the Montanist movement, founded in 156, predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetimes. ^[4] 247 Various Christians The Roman government dramatically increased its persecution of Christians in this year, so much so that many Christians believed that the End had arrived. ^[3] 365 Hilary of Poitiers Announced that the end would happen that year. ^[4] 375-400 Martin of Tours Stated that the world would end before 400. Writing ""There is no doubt that the Antichrist has already been born. Firmly established already in his early years, he will, after reaching maturity, achieve supreme power." ^[5][6] 500 Hippolytus of Rome, Sextus Julius Africanus,Irenaeus All three predicted Jesus would return in the year 500.

 

Apocalyptism was popular in Assyrian times?! Wow... it's not only the Christians who are into it, I guess.

[Blue elephant]

This practical common sense approach to life included a solid income to avoid or pay off debt and support oneself and family--and save for old age.

 

Any idea how to inculcate non-religious chidren with this particular viewpoint?

[Perfessor]

Here's a book everyone should read.....NOW!

 

88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988.

 

[VacuumFlux]

This practical common sense approach to life included a solid income to avoid or pay off debt and support oneself and family--and save for old age.

 

Any idea how to inculcate non-religious chidren with this particular viewpoint?

 

I have a few ideas, but no idea how well they'd actually work.

 

One suggestion I heard (from one of the Christian financial talk shows my parents used to listen to) was to give kids an allowance and do something simple and hands-on, like separate piggy banks or envelopes, to teach them how to budget. I think when I first heard that idea it was actually about teaching kids to tithe, but maybe if instead of setting part of it aside as tithe the kid was setting it aside to save up for a more expensive item, it could help them understand that the more money they spend now, the longer it takes to get the bigger toy.

 

From personal experience, I'd also recommend a clear bank to store change in that the kid is saving. My adult version of that is a spreadsheet in which I can watch my savings account grow the more I put into it (I have a bar chart, with a bar for each month, so I can look at it getting taller and feel some warm fuzzy happiness). Kids probably want something more tactile than numbers in a bank account, which is why I'd suggest something like a clear piggy bank.

 

Another way I motivate my adult self to save is that every time I reach a major milestone in how much money I've saved, I allow myself to take a month or two to redirect some of what would have gone into saving that month (so I don't pull from savings, just let it plateau briefly) into a big ticket item. So I give myself short-term rewards for progress on a long-term goal.

 

Another suggestion is to involve your kids in your household budgeting. Let them learn by example. Show them, when they ask for something too expensive, why you're saying no instead of just making it an adults vs kids things. Maybe even have an entertainment/toys category in the monthly household budget (as opposed to just their allowance) and give them a lot of input on how it's spent, and refuse to buy them any more toys that month once they've hit the limit. That might get ugly if you've got more than one kid and they disagree on how to spend that money, though. I kinda wish my parents had done this more with me, because when I finally started buying stuff for myself I had no idea how much things were supposed to cost and never knew if I was getting a good deal or getting ripped off, so that experence was more intimidating than it needed to be. Also, if you show your kids the utility bills and point out that (for example) using a lot electricity means less money for toys and entertainment, they might be more careful about turning off the lights when they leave the room. Show them how the actions of each individual in the household affects the other people.

[Ouroboros]

Here's a book everyone should read.....NOW!

 

88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988.

 

The "True Christians™" were raptured in 1988... all five of them, but no one noticed.

[R. S. Martin]

This practical common sense approach to life included a solid income to avoid or pay off debt and support oneself and family--and save for old age.

 

Any idea how to inculcate non-religious chidren with this particular viewpoint?

 

I read Vacuum Flux's response. Also blackpudd1n's. Are you talking about an allowance--the money some parents give their kids to spend as they wish? We never had that, and I never had kids, so I keep forgetting about this practice. I think some good ideas have been suggested.

 

I'm not sure which part of the "practical common sense approach" you are referring to. In my opinion, the mortality end of it is part and parcel of it because of its close relationship to finances and material goods. These finances and goods must be sustained so long as we live and wrapped up when we die.

 

Re mortality and children being raised without religion. I think when children get to be six to fourteen years old (depending on the child) they can perhaps understand to some degree the fragility of human life when they realize that traffic accidents and war kill people in the blink of an eye. Not to mention illness being indiscriminate of age; tell them about children's wards in cancer hospitals, etc. I personally was taken to funerals from an early age (with appropriate preparation and support by parents) and these misfortunes of life were discussed around the dinner table so that I grew up with them being part of my consciousness. I don't regret it because it is the way life is. I think it helps a person understand the fragility of life and prepare for it, whether religious or not.

[Phanta]

Have they heard of Dave Ramsey? He is a Christian financial expert with a great plan for getting out of debt. He is full of Bible quotes that support getting out of debt/avoiding debt. My favorites:

 

Proverbs 22:6-7 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower [is] servant to the lender.

 

So, if they don't want to be slaves during this period while they wait for Jesus to return...if they want to be "lights" or whatever to the world, they're on the right track if they pay off the debt.

 

Here's another favorite:

 

Proverbs 6:1-5 My son, if you have put up security for your neighbor, have given your pledge for a stranger, if you are snared in the words of your mouth, caught in the words of your mouth, save yourself like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter, [fn] like a bird from the hand of the fowler.

 

In other words, run/fly away from that shit as fast as possible. Pay it off! What would they say to that?

 

P