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Goodbye Jesus

Pretend Judgement Day Were to Actually Happen...


Foxy Methoxy

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I mean, who the fuck would EVER want to be like him?

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Troy, SavedByFaith, Paul Manata, Invinctus1967, Berserk, Croesus, Razor, TheGoodBook, TJR666...

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I mean, who the fuck would EVER want to be like him?

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I would... when I no longer wanted friends; when I could no longer think objectively; when I needed meds and refused to take them; when I believed down inside I knew nothing and felt if I hid behind the bible it would protect me;....

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And what's with this rebuking shit? "In the name of Jean Paul Sarte, I rebuke thee" Get thee behind me numb nuts"

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Danny is living proof that the bible is a joke. He's living proof what a person ends up looking like when they get the Holy Bible thoroughly absorped into their system. He's a walking argument against christianity.

 

I mean, who the fuck would EVER want to be like him?

 

Only someone who was completely and thoroughly brainwashed.

 

And what's with this rebuking shit?

 

Good question. I mean, if there were ever an argument that would NOT win someone over to your side, it would be that one. Treating people like absolute shit is not a good way to sell anything. Marketing 101: treat your customers how you want to be treated. I do have a marketing degree, so I know a little something about that kind of thing. Funny, that's the Golden Rule, too.

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Here's a thought... what's the difference between a religious terrorist and Daniel?

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:scratch: That was a tough one... still thinking... is there a difference?

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No! He will continue to judge "those" outside of the church despite the bible saying otherwise. You see? Not even he believes the bible, he has put himself above the word of his freaking god....errrrr!

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Which every religious person does. Their highest power, the almight "god" in their life, is not Jesus, HS, God or the Bible, but their own little selfish minds that decides what to believe and not in the Bible and Church. So God is not in "control", but their own minds are (or completely out of control, if you so want :grin: )

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Here's a thought... what's the difference between a religious terrorist and Daniel?

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:scratch: That was a tough one... still thinking... is there a difference?

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No! He will continue to judge "those" outside of the church despite the bible saying otherwise. You see? Not even he believes the bible, he has put himself above the word of his freaking god....errrrr!

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Which every religious person does. Their highest power, the almight "god" in their life, is not Jesus, HS, God or the Bible, but their own little selfish minds that decides what to believe and not in the Bible and Church. So God is not in "control", but their own minds are (or completely out of control, if you so want :grin: )

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Sheesh... all this from a rhetorical question...

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Hey, Amanda, let's say that if biblegod were real and he'd throw us into eternal hellfire... you and I pull some "Charlie's Angel's" moves on his butt before we go down. :woohoo:

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:HaHa: --- :lmao: --- :HaHa:

 

Heck, Serenity Now... He may set us up with all the alcoholic beverages, great musicians, fine friends.... and a great time! Think about it... I highly suspect he's coming with us!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please, someone remember the hot dogs, buns, and marshmellows! :wicked:

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Sheesh... all this from a rhetorical question...

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:wave: Hello Crazy Tiger!

 

One difference between a terrorist and Daniel is, I believe, that he thinks he is trying to help us escape something he considers serious... eternal hell of tormenting fire. I don't mean to be disrespectful to him, it's just that we don't believe in this literal interpretation... so we can laugh about it. It would be great if he could understand that. But remember, someone who really takes this literally to heart... it can be an inborn fear for himself, and therefore his concern for us! Muah-ha-ha-ha!

 

It seems he's trying to help us, we're trying to help him. :shrug:

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One difference between a terrorist and Daniel is, I believe, that he thinks he is trying to help us escape something he considers serious... eternal hell of tormenting fire. I don't mean to be disrespectful to him, it's just that we don't believe in this literal interpretation... so we can laugh about it. It would be great if he could understand that. But remember, someone who really takes this literally to heart... it can be an inborn fear for himself, and therefore his concern for us! Muah-ha-ha-ha!

 

It seems he's trying to help us, we're trying to help him.  :shrug:

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Part of me respects and shares your kind sympathies, but the other part is rather staunchly cynical about people like him. I suppose it's that part that is offended and sees little reason to give an effort to someone who doesn't seem genuinely interested in how others feel, as they busily justify everything they do under the banner of self-righteousness. Maybe I'm just lazy and mean spirited, or maybe I'm just not seeing any effort to show respect and I no longer care? I don't know.

 

Bottom line though, I think you are right in saying we're both trying to help each other with what we know. It's funny how much I like it when a respectful Christian comes in here, but when Daniel and his ilk preach at us with their fundamentalist bull shit, it brings out every reason why I reject Christianity – both on an intellectual level and on an emotional one. It sucks in a way, but there it is.

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Sheesh... all this from a rhetorical question...

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:wave: Hello Crazy Tiger!

 

One difference between a terrorist and Daniel is, I believe, that he thinks he is trying to help us escape something he considers serious... eternal hell of tormenting fire.

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Well, yes... but what are his methods of "persuasion"?

 

He's using terror and an almost fanatical conviction that HIS belief is the only correct one...

 

 

Isn't that the same methods terrorists use?

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Part of me respects and shares your kind sympathies, but the other part is rather staunchly cynical about people like him.  I suppose it's that part that is offended and sees little reason to give an effort to someone who doesn't seem genuinely interested in how others feel, as they busily justify everything they do under the banner of self-righteousness.

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Hi Antlerman, I know that you are a very compassionate person! I too understand how self righteousness seems so blatantly disrespectful and arrogant about others, often unknowingly causing great emotional harm to people in their path. Yet, think if you were in a position that you thought one slight slip would send you into an eternally tormenting fire, you'd be afraid to change your ways too! It must be very scary, and a subconscious drive for eternal preservation puts a fear in him that he thinks we should have too, for our own good!

 

I know that we may want to laugh about this, but to some people... this is serious stuff! How would you like to have that feeling inside you? People can't see what they can't see! :shrug: Perceived preservation is a powerful motivator!

 

Well, yes... but what are his methods of "persuasion"?

 

He's using terror and an almost fanatical conviction that HIS belief is the only correct one...

 

 

Isn't that the same methods terrorists use?

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Hi Crazy Tiger.....

Terrorist do have fanatical beliefs too. I agree. The thing is, Daniel is trying to save us into his idea of eternal safety. He's hanging in here to help us, yet he's afraid if he makes one slip... he may be lost with us! :eek: He is not like a terrorist who is just trying to get rid of us, IMO.

 

Don't laugh Crazy Tiger! :nono: Think about that mindset being inside someone! There's a lot at stake, if one believes that! :scratch: I think he really does have our best interest at heart.

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Yet, think if you were in a position that you thought one slight slip would send you into an eternally tormenting fire, you'd be afraid to change your ways too!

 

When I was a kid, I used to think that way because I didn't know any better. Yet, I changed. Anyone can stop the brainwashing. It takes a big step, yes. But it's up to that person to make it.

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:wave: Hi Daniel!

 

I apologize for not responding more time appropriately. My email notifications must of gotten messed up... probably because I walk away to do some work for hours and leave my computer on this site. IDK. :shrug: I do apologize.

 

...Daniel, Daniel, Daniel... these are just words... isn't the meaning in the concept?

 

What does that even mean? I'm not even sure how to decifer this. Isn't the meaning in the concept? Do you even know what you are saying? No, the meaning is in the action that will follow. Jesus gives us concepts in parables, but they are all concepts of things which shall come in real as life, actualy events. The concept is a concept, but if it does not result in solid action and truth, it is meaningless.

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Daniel, my friend, you post scripture... and assume we interpret it the same as you. It may be evident to you that we should read it the same way as you... but that is not the case most times. That is why I gave you my interpretation of what that scripture actually meant to me, and asked you to be considering another perspective of it.

What you are trying to say to me, and convince of me right now is the same thing many on this board do.  It's the same old tricks, different day.  Satan did it to Eve in the garden, and Satan did it to Jesus in the wilderness.  He asked a question, bringing God's word into dispute.  You have done not less here, I'm truly sorry to say.

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I only offer another opinion, that's all. That's all anyone here does. It seems you have this wall built up, refusing to let anything we say be considered. All we ask is that you think about what we have suggested, and give us a rational reason as to why you continue to defend your stand. That is all everyone here does! Do you think everyone agrees with me? Ha! And I don't care if you do either, I just want to engage in an interactive conversation with you instead of a reactive one. There seems to be a great genuine person inside you, but your fear refuses to let anyone meet him.

Genesis 3:1-4

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Daniel, my dear friend. Respectfully, I didn't just start reading the Bible yesterday. Neither did most of these wonderful people here! The story of the serpent in the garden with Adam and Eve is an interesting one. It goes much deeper than words, and the concept is greater than a superficial reading can give proper merit.

 

What is the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? What can one do that they couldn't without this knowledge? Fruit is what is produced from this new knowledge. Judgement. One can not judge unless they know good and evil. Judging is good, that is why we became as one of those with God. The particular fruit God did not want us to devour into our being is condemnation. This is the forbidden fruit of judgement. Adam condemned Eve and God, and Eve condemned the devil. We've been doing it ever since. It's someone else's fault, God's, or the devil's. *sigh* Condemnation is what brought spritual death to mankind.

 

Ro 5:18 Therefore * * as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The result is that they did die.  I suggest to you this, Amanda.  The concept of death was no more fathomable than an eternity of punishment to us.  The natural mind can not truly grasp what the natural mind has never experienced.  Suppose that I told you in heaven, you will see new colors.  Can you grasp what those colors will look like?  I don't mean shades of already existing colors like red and blue... I mean TOTALLY NEW COLORS.  God said that eating of the tree would bring death, something Adam and Eve had NEVER seen.

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Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Satan brought what could not be proven, into question... and then told Adam and Eve God was a liar.  You have done the same to me, they have done the same to us.  I won't bite though, sorry.

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Daniel, don't you see... you've already bitten... that's how cunning Satan, the author of confusion is! You have already taken of the forbidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil... and have condemned others.

 

Surely you don't think that the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is an apple, do you?

Wicked men are, simply, men who do not have faith in God. 

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Which God? One that throws people, like Gandhi, away in eternal tormenting fire?

Jesus said he didn't come to condemn the world but to save it. Saving and condemning are therefore opposites. Condemning is spiritual homicide, so wouldn't that make those that condemned people wicked? Wouldn't it make those who condemn and elevate 'self' deny God? Maybe this is a good topic to think about... silverpenny013Hmmm.gif

 

The LORD rebuke you Amanda, you have once again used scipture to bring His Word into question. I will quote the verse you refer to, more completely.

 

John 3:16-18

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Jesus in fact confirms the condemnation of men who would not believe in Him, does He not?

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Daniel, it does say that Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it. Did Jesus fail? :Hmm: I think not. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. It may not be going happen the way you or I think it should be done, but it will.

  Stop taking the Word of God out of context so that you can "respect," those who hate God.

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Daniel, it says to judge people by their actions, not their labels. Am I too respect a Pharisee mentality? I look at people's heart to find God. Is there love, respect, and honor of people in their heart? Look at how someone treats everyday people, that is how we know them!

 

Maybe all those scriptures you are quoting are directed to the Pharisee mentality? Maybe that is what is wicked? Maybe. Show me a verse where Jesus personally chastised anyone but the religous right.

 

Daniel, with sincere respect my friend, I'm curious how you consider your approach part of our ministry we've been given of reconciliation?

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I have to say, amanda, I am really and truly impressed by Christians like you.

Daresay, your arguement for a god is more convincing than Daniel's.

 

But then I was a universalist like you at end of my Christianity.

It wouldn't matter since if the Universalists is true and right, we'll all go to Heaven. Or if the Fundamentalist Hellfire people is right, we all go to Hell. Either way, we'd like to have you in our company. By looks of your posts, you are a geniunely good person. I have to say this about Daniel though, he will be alright in the end but with bumps through the ride.

That's putting it mildly.

 

God according to me, don't have enough proof for his existence.

Anyway, if there was one god that existed, he or she'd be very apatheic about hell, obedience and tricking other people.

He or She'd be interested in people, in good or either he or she wouldn't care too much about superzealots.

Either way, I'm happy with both versions if God existed.

But then, God doesn't exist.

 

All the more exploration to you both.

Both of you have a long way to go in the terms of seeking the truth.

In fact, everybody hasn't truly found the Truth of Everything.

We'll'd have fun trying to seeing the unvarnished truth.

 

I'm not blind though about Daniel's behaviour. Daniel, if you are going to keep this up, no one would want to listen, even convert and accept your truth. Much less debating it.

 

One thing about sharing what we have, the most successful sharing is when it is the closest to love, humility, manners and consideration.

I have had messed up when it come to this but, sure as hell, I'm not going to blame the devil or God. They are nonexistent to me. I have to take responsibility for myself when I do things wrong.

 

Daniel, will it either be these fates you will choose?

 

* Continue on being very rude and obxious. Thus retaining the Fundamentalist tag bag.

 

* Turn for the better and have people flock to you.

Thus getting a "Cool Christian" tag bag or better yet, "Skeptic" tag bag.

 

What are your choice? Good luck in your choice.

That is all.

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I don't even try anymore. I don't care.

 

Why try when the Biblegod will find some little thing to send you to hell over, no matter how hard you try? Religion is perfectionism to the Nth degree.

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I always found that to be the biggest problem in life. Especially with some people close to me. It never mattered if you did 9 things out of 10 that they'd be ok with, they were always ignored. It was that ONE thing that They wanted You to Do, that you just Didn't Do. Not necessarily intentionally or spitefully, and nothing Against them, you just Didn't Do what they Thought You should have done.

 

It's never what you do that's a problem, you can always Discuss and work out issues with things you've done. But what you've NOT done, how do you defend against that? You didn't do it, that's a fact.

 

The same step ladder with religion.. no matter what you do, you either did it WRONG, not good enough, or there's something MORE you have to do.

 

In most cases, it's not good enough to do it ONCE, you need to do it EVERY year all over again, as the calendar dictates. And every year someone's ego feels the need to improve upon it, or tell everyone they were doing it wrong all along.

 

It's a no win situations.

 

I enjoy the holiday parties I go to, but the people who feel oh so obligated to do them seem to argue, bicker, complain and end up unhappy with the results.

 

People seem to spend more time bemoaning the 3 people who didn't show up to a party than enjoying the 10 or 20 who did show up. It's amazing. Nobody is ever here NOW.

 

People go on vacation and spend their entire time comparing it to previous vacations or where they want to go next time. Funny

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I sure am glad that I'm to a point in my life now where I can just laugh at condemnation and shrug it off. 

 

It sure would be funny if NONE of us were right.  If there was some kind of eternal life, but it had absolutely nothing to do with biblegod or jesus.  Nothing to do with a heaven or hell.

 

You always gotta think that it's a possibility.  Imagine all of the things in the universe and all of the possible different dimensions that mankind is still utterly ignorant of.

 

I hope I'm wrong about this.  It messes with my "neat little box" theory to life.

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Pretend it's Judgment Day:

 

"Welcome home, Son, did you enjoy your life?"

 

"Want another now, or do you want to hang out a while and watch your loved ones a bit?"

 

"So now you know the Absolute Truth, aren't you glad you lived your life the way you did?"

 

"Let's go say hi to your parents and other loved ones"

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Well, the God of the bible is very cruel isn't he? Thank Satin, there's over three million gods to choose from or none.

 

I chose none.

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In my pretend scenario it’s more about what God says and does than what I say. Please allow me to indulge…

 

 

and you're standing before God almighty who is about to send you straight to Hell. There are Xians all around nodding their heads and saying "We told you so." You have one last thing to say before eternal damnation. What do you say?

 

I would say something like, “Well, God. You know what I did and didn’t do. You know everything. There’s nothing I can hide from you. I am at your mercy. Do as you will.”

 

Then God responds. “You’re right there. You tried and you failed. You sure did sin a lot, I mean, look at all this. The sex, the hate, the selfishness, the pride, the disrespect for your father, and you know what hurts me most of all? That you turned your back on me, AFTER you had known all the wonders of my grace. You know, you really do deserve to go to hell.”

 

The watching Christians continue nodding their heads, full of joy that their hour of vindication has finally come.

 

God continues. “However, I forgave you, and I forgave you because I love you, despite all the shit that you had to experience during that life. And that forgiveness is as valid now as it was when my son was hanging on that cross. Please now, go and join your ex-christian and atheist friends in the eternal paradise I have reserved for you since the beginning.”

 

Suddenly, the Christians aren’t nodding their heads any more. Instead, their mouths wide open in shock as they look upon God with disbelief. Eventually they start to mumble, and question, and protest, “What..why…how…but, he’s a sinner! how could you god?”

 

God then turns to the Christians and says, “What’s the problem Christians. Didn’t you read my word? You’ve been studying it for over 2000 years, I thought you would have worked it out by now. It’s all in there. I’m doing exactly what I promised.”

 

“But Lord,” the Christians reply, “Didn’t you see how obedient to you we were? Did we not prophesy in your name? Did you not see all the miracles we performed, with your help of course, and did we not cast out many of those evil demons of Satan in your name. C’mon God, we were helping you, don’t you see, we were right!”

 

“I have to tell you guys the truth,” God says, “I never knew you. Now go away, doers of evil, to the place of eternal fire prepared for Satan and his angels. For when I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat. When I was alone and frightened, you didn’t comfort me, instead, you burned crosses outside my house, and disrupted my funerals with your petty ‘anti gay’ protests, and you bombed the shit out of me and my people with your oh-so-holy weaponry. You let me drown in the ocean rather than grant me asylum as I attempted to escape the very tyrants you were opposed to. You were too busy judging anyone and everyone but yourselves to give a shit about the things that should have mattered to you, and did matter to me. Now off you go to hell, where you belong.”

 

At this point, the Christians are horrified, all their smug satisfaction but a distant memory, as they face the inevitability of their unexpected yet certain fate.

 

 

 

Apologies for the length. I kind of got on a roll.

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did you just write that now? cool! great stuff.

 

If life is a test, lifelong Christians fail. How can they miss the obvious?

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people nodding their heads and saying i told you so while someones fixing to go to hell?

 

how cruel.

 

id say well i dont want too be with a bunch of heartless people like them anyway.\

 

I would say to god you create us just to throw us in hell what kind of father are you too punish a child for making mistakes by burning them. That is child abuse.

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people nodding their heads and saying i told you so while someones fixing to go to hell?

 

how cruel.

 

id say well i dont want too be with a bunch of heartless people like them anyway.\

 

I would  say to god you create us just to throw us in hell what kind of father are you too punish a child for making mistakes by burning them. That is child abuse.

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If there's a 'place' to go after we're dead, I'm gonna be with dear ole mom and dad and my grandparents and old friends and other relatives.

 

If there's no Christians there, oh well.. I'll miss 'em, but whatareyagonnado.

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Hey, Amanda, let's say that if biblegod were real and he'd throw us into eternal hellfire... you and I pull some "Charlie's Angel's" moves on his butt before we go down. :woohoo:

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:HaHa: --- :lmao: --- :HaHa:

 

Heck, Serenity Now... He may set us up with all the alcoholic beverages, great musicians, fine friends.... and a great time! Think about it... I highly suspect he's coming with us!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please, someone remember the hot dogs, buns, and marshmellows! :wicked:

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Yup sounds like Jesus. Mocking the existance of hell with a party involving tasty snack food to be shared among atheists. Good job standing up for the faith Amanda.

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Amanda,

 

I honestly don't think you know what the love Christ talked about is Amanda... aren't you a Universalist... I mean we'll all be going to heaven anyways. There is really no point to this conversation. Go read the Bible, please. From cover to cover, and best you seek the Lord formost as you do... before you do, and after you do. Consider Him, how large He is, where He is, who He is.

 

Love is not telling others they are right, it is often telling them they are wrong -- for sure. The things you say, totally take away the power of God in Christ...

 

1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

First, don't just take it at mere face value. Just as tacking on "In Jesus name" at the end of a prayer does not mean you are praying in His name... the same, just saying that Jesus is the Christ, is not actually professing it. You see, first you must understand what the Christ is, in order to say Jesus is the Christ.

 

The Christ, will come to save men, who are really dead in their sin, and really going to a real hell. The Christ came to die for sin, really, because it is necessary and otherwise men are in irronsilable without. The Christ, is God in the flesh... come to save the world from sin. SAVE THE WORLD -- this in and of itself speaks of a necessary act. If the person you call Christ, by your definition, isn't actually saving anyone from anything (no hell anyone has to fear) then you deny Christ... Why are we even here debating it? Why didn't He just take us up when He died on the cross, if we are all universally saved? Why subject us to this? You say Christ has not come. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

Jesus died for the sins of the world. Either this is true, or it is not. Either it is necessary, or it is not.

 

It's really impossible to believe in universal salvation and profess Jesus is the Christ, consequently, universalism is not Christianity--it is antichrist.

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