What Form Of Spirituality Do You Study/practice These Days?

[Antlerman]

Wow VaccumFlux, I really appreciate all of what you say.

 

What I'm curious about and perhaps this can be a discussion for another topic, is how you identify yourself as a materialist. I'm not seeing that in how I understand the term materialist. You go into these deeply subjective spaces, mystical experiences, and yet the term materialist says that only the material world is valid and reliable, the only 'real' world. Mysticism is part of an epistemological pluralism. The materialist sees the 'eye of flesh' as the only true knowledge. An integral approach takes the eye of flesh, the eye of mind, and the eye of spirit together into a whole, not making category errors such as trying to understand philosophy or spirituality in terms of reductionist methodologies applied to the material world.

 

Regardless, we can have a separate discussion on this if you wish.

 

P.S. I think the problem is where people see Spirit and think supernatural. I don't. I consider it very much part of what is. It is part of this natural system, but it is not material in nature. There are plenty of 'immaterial' realities we function within on a daily basis, such as our value systems as one example.

[Deva]

Am I completely satisfied with life and at peace? No. But I'm satisfied with the fact that I'm probably not going to find peace in spirituality. I've already wasted enough of my life going down that road. If you find peace in your spirituality, i applaud you. I didn't come here to attack you, just trying to understand. I will bow out of the conversation if it offends people.

 

No offense taken, but I have probably as much difficulty understanding your position as you would mine. I am not sure why.

[Vigile]

For me, meditation was similar to training for triathlon. At first, I was shocked at how little discipline I had and wondered if I was capable of completing the task. I struggled to find the time to squeeze it into my day. With more practice, it became less of a struggle. Eventually, I started looking forward to it and thinking about it throughout the day. After years of effort, it became so important to me, I began to build my entire day around it.

 

To what end though? Isn't it just one method of finding happiness, fulfillment, whatever it is we humans look for to find meaning in our lives?

 

I'm not trying to discount it here, just better understand the motivations of those who do it .

 

Assuming a yes answer to my question, is it on par with or better than other methods?

 

I was thinking about this today. My BiL, who I've mentioned is a CEO for one of the wealthiest oligarchs in Russia runs himself ragged traveling all over the world, going from one meeting to the next, sleeping 4 hours a day if he can get it, while his wife and kids sit at home complaining that he's not there often enough. He does it because he's still trying to make it, even though he has made it in a career sense, he can't necessarily afford to just give it all up and live in luxury.

 

Meanwhile, the oligarch can absolutely give it all up and just live like a billionaire and pursue other interests, yet he too works around the clock and spends half his days on a jet flying around the world. I can only conclude that this is what makes him happy as he can choose to do pretty much whatever he wants and this is what he chooses. That disposition is probably why he is where he is and has what he has.

 

At the end of the day, I wonder if there is no difference between someone who uses mediation to find fulfillment and those who seek it through financial gain, through accomplishments, etc... It all just seems like a means to an end for me, which begs the question, is meditation a more efficient way to achieve fulfillment and happiness or could there perhaps be better alternatives? Or is it all just personal choice?

[Rev R]

But whatever part of my brain would be engaged by spirituality seems to be either broken or inaccessible to me on a conscious level.

 

Broken? doubtful

 

Inaccessible or blocked? Perhaps. It could very well be a side effect of "never again". No one wants to return to those same mental states held in fundamentalist religion so the defense mechanisms are shifted into overdrive. How would one overcome it? Well, you do have to find someone who is willing to work with you and trust them to do so.

 

On the other hand, if nothing seems to gel with you, why would you want to overcome the block?

[RankStranger]

But whatever part of my brain would be engaged by spirituality seems to be either broken or inaccessible to me on a conscious level.

 

Broken? doubtful

 

Inaccessible or blocked? Perhaps. It could very well be a side effect of "never again". No one wants to return to those same mental states held in fundamentalist religion so the defense mechanisms are shifted into overdrive. How would one overcome it? Well, you do have to find someone who is willing to work with you and trust them to do so.

 

On the other hand, if nothing seems to gel with you, why would you want to overcome the block?

 

Curiosity mostly. Spirituality looks interesting. Might be fun. Other people seem to find it fulfilling.

 

II don't really feel any longing for spirituality... it's just something that I'd be interested to try if I could find something that 'clicked' with me.

[Rev R]

But whatever part of my brain would be engaged by spirituality seems to be either broken or inaccessible to me on a conscious level.

 

Broken? doubtful

 

Inaccessible or blocked? Perhaps. It could very well be a side effect of "never again". No one wants to return to those same mental states held in fundamentalist religion so the defense mechanisms are shifted into overdrive. How would one overcome it? Well, you do have to find someone who is willing to work with you and trust them to do so.

 

On the other hand, if nothing seems to gel with you, why would you want to overcome the block?

 

Curiosity mostly. Spirituality looks interesting. Might be fun. Other people seem to find it fulfilling.

 

II don't really feel any longing for spirituality... it's just something that I'd be interested to try if I could find something that 'clicked' with me.

 

The "clicking" is important since intuition is a valuable tool in any path. If you still have a lingering interest in the Dharma, give Stephen Batchelor a try. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[RankStranger]

Thanks. I'll have a look. There are things about Buddhism and the like that I find interesting (meditating, 'letting go' of desire, etc.)... I just can't be bothered to memorize things or follow rules unless/until I become genuinely interested. I reckon something like 'Buddhism for dummies' might be a good place to start.

[Foxy Methoxy]

For me, meditation was similar to training for triathlon. At first, I was shocked at how little discipline I had and wondered if I was capable of completing the task. I struggled to find the time to squeeze it into my day. With more practice, it became less of a struggle. Eventually, I started looking forward to it and thinking about it throughout the day. After years of effort, it became so important to me, I began to build my entire day around it.

 

To what end though? Isn't it just one method of finding happiness, fulfillment, whatever it is we humans look for to find meaning in our lives?

 

 

I meditate just to meditate.

 

People tend to look for some sort of added benefit or side effect to completing a task. Meditation taught me to do something just for the sake of doing it. When I sit in the lotus position, I don't do so counting down the moments to enlightenment, happiness, or fulfillment. I assume the lotus position just to assume the lotus position. That's it. That's all I do.

[Rev R]

Thanks. I'll have a look. There are things about Buddhism and the like that I find interesting (meditating, 'letting go' of desire, etc.)... I just can't be bothered to memorize things or follow rules unless/until I become genuinely interested. I reckon something like 'Buddhism for dummies' might be a good place to start.

 

Another decent place to start without a trip to the library or the book store:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/index.html

[Vigile]

For me, meditation was similar to training for triathlon. At first, I was shocked at how little discipline I had and wondered if I was capable of completing the task. I struggled to find the time to squeeze it into my day. With more practice, it became less of a struggle. Eventually, I started looking forward to it and thinking about it throughout the day. After years of effort, it became so important to me, I began to build my entire day around it.

 

To what end though? Isn't it just one method of finding happiness, fulfillment, whatever it is we humans look for to find meaning in our lives?

 

 

I meditate just to meditate.

 

People tend to look for some sort of added benefit or side effect to completing a task. Meditation taught me to do something just for the sake of doing it. When I sit in the lotus position, I don't do so counting down the moments to enlightenment, happiness, or fulfillment. I assume the lotus position just to assume the lotus position. That's it. That's all I do.

 

I guess I don't get it, whatever it is. If something that is hard to do or at least hard to get started at doesn't give you a reward of some sort, I just don't see the purpose in doing it. I watch tv just to watch tv sometimes, but tv doesn't require discipline.

[Rev R]

If something that is hard to do or at least hard to get started at doesn't give you a reward of some sort, I just don't see the purpose in doing it.

 

That is kinda the point, Vigile. The discipline of meditation bypasses the need, the craving, to always get something for your efforts. It is, in effect, confronting the very frustration and confusion you appear to be feeling head on.

[Foxy Methoxy]

I get bored watching TV.

[izzytheterri]

Thanks. I'll have a look. There are things about Buddhism and the like that I find interesting (meditating, 'letting go' of desire, etc.)... I just can't be bothered to memorize things or follow rules unless/until I become genuinely interested. I reckon something like 'Buddhism for dummies' might be a good place to start.

 

I strongly recommend you check youtube for Ajahn Brahm, if you're intersted in learning more. Buddhism for dummies really felt like an oxymoron to me. Once you get into it you'll see.

[Vigile]

If something that is hard to do or at least hard to get started at doesn't give you a reward of some sort, I just don't see the purpose in doing it.

 

That is kinda the point, Vigile. The discipline of meditation bypasses the need, the craving, to always get something for your efforts. It is, in effect, confronting the very frustration and confusion you appear to be feeling head on.

 

I still don't get that point. If you bypass need, etc... you are getting something for your efforts, the ability to bypass need, which in effect still arguably leads toward that elusive peace and happiness we are all looking for. So again, it's just a means to an end. Is it the most efficient, practical and most of all effective means to that end? How do we know and why not other means, such as the pursuit of money, power or sex which all sound a hell of a lot more fun than meditating to me?

[Rev R]

I still don't get that point. If you bypass need, etc... you are getting something for your efforts, the ability to bypass need, which in effect still arguably leads toward that elusive peace and happiness we are all looking for. So again, it's just a means to an end. Is it the most efficient, practical and most of all effective means to that end? How do we know and why not other means, such as the pursuit of money, power or sex?

 

Which creates the least amount of suffering?

[Foxy Methoxy]

If it doesn't appeal to you, there's nothing wrong with that. You're probably not missing out on anything. For me, if I stopped meditating, I'd sorely miss it.

[Antlerman]

I still don't get that point. If you bypass need, etc... you are getting something for your efforts, the ability to bypass need, which in effect still arguably leads toward that elusive peace and happiness we are all looking for.

Because in bypassing the need, you find what you're looking for. It's like I was saying to NB a few posts ago that 'seek and you shall find' only has real meaning and truth when you are not seeking for your own gain. It is not about you finding 'happiness' for you. It is about releasing what you want for yourself for the sake of something beyond you, for its own sake, because it is Beautiful in itself. You desire to be That. In other words you die to yourself to find your true Self.

 

This is something difficult to wrap the mind around because it is contrary to everything we are taught that if you want something you seek to obtain it. The business of acquiring wealth, or seeking pleasure, or some sense of immortality has you and your own desires at the center. I want for ME. It is a thin veil between seeking for yourself, and seeking to become 'not you' in order to become that which you truly do desire. Yet on the opposite sides of the thin veil is the exact polar opposites. You have to die to yourself to find your true Self. One that doesn't desire for self gain, but to simply be in that which is beyond the simple small self. You love it for its own sake, to be that itself for its own sake, to become that, to become God. Someone once said, "To say I am God is the humblest thing anyone can say". This is why.

 

The difference is seeking power and pleasure is to find a substitution for that "God", instead seeking for yourself, that artificial identity we think is us. It is impermanent happiness, not everlasting in the sense it is not dependent on the accusation of any thing, any object. Your happiness is in simple Being, and that happiness flows from the infinite. There is real meaning to the term, "Being and Becoming". The fulfillment is in apprehending what we already always had - Life. To live as Life Itself is to be truly fulfilled. A thin veil, a world of different meaning and experience.

 

So again, it's just a means to an end. Is it the most efficient, practical and most of all effective means to that end?

If I may be so bold, it is the only means to that end.

 

How do we know and why not other means, such as the pursuit of money, power or sex which all sound a hell of a lot more fun than meditating to me?

Because of the reasons I stated. You're absolutely right, money, power and sex are immediate gratifications, which pass and need to be chased after yet again constantly trying to distract from that far less pleasant experience of apprehending lasting peace - the death of yourself. When you die to yourself, you find life, and then you truly become.

[RankStranger]

If something that is hard to do or at least hard to get started at doesn't give you a reward of some sort, I just don't see the purpose in doing it.

 

That is kinda the point, Vigile. The discipline of meditation bypasses the need, the craving, to always get something for your efforts. It is, in effect, confronting the very frustration and confusion you appear to be feeling head on.

 

This is a pretty good summary of what I might be looking for. I have a pretty good life. Sure I can bitch- and i do all the time. But if I could find some method, practice, pursuit, discipline, spirituality, etc. that would help me be more happy and content with my life as it is (rather than constantly striving for more 'stuff' that I know damn well that I won't be content with)... well I reckon that would be worth looking into.

[Rev R]

If something that is hard to do or at least hard to get started at doesn't give you a reward of some sort, I just don't see the purpose in doing it.

 

That is kinda the point, Vigile. The discipline of meditation bypasses the need, the craving, to always get something for your efforts. It is, in effect, confronting the very frustration and confusion you appear to be feeling head on.

 

This is a pretty good summary of what I might be looking for. I have a pretty good life. Sure I can bitch- and i do all the time. But if I could find some method, practice, pursuit, discipline, spirituality, etc. that would help me be more happy and content with my life as it is (rather than constantly striving for more 'stuff' that I know damn well that I won't be content with)... well I reckon that would be worth looking into.

Well I did put together a meditation guide some time ago. I'm at work right now but I know A man has a copy, or just shoot me a PM and I'll figure out how to get it to you.

[NotBlinded]

Thanks antlerman and foxy. I will do it again in the morming with those suggestions in mind.

 

Rev R or antlerman, could you also pm me that meditation guide please?

[Rev R]

Thanks antlerman and foxy. I will do it again in the morming with those suggestions in mind.

 

Rev R or antlerman, could you also pm me that meditation guide please?

 

it's a pdf. email me: cognitivedissidents(at)gmail(dot)com

[Noggy]

Pu

[Thurisaz]

What are you currently studying/practicing?

 

Laid-back Asatru here (The Asgard gang... Odin, Thor, Loki et al), with quite some agnostic tendencies.

[Vigile]

I still don't get that point. If you bypass need, etc... you are getting something for your efforts, the ability to bypass need, which in effect still arguably leads toward that elusive peace and happiness we are all looking for. So again, it's just a means to an end. Is it the most efficient, practical and most of all effective means to that end? How do we know and why not other means, such as the pursuit of money, power or sex?

 

Which creates the least amount of suffering?

 

Good point, but I guess I'm more of a risk taker.

[Vigile]

When you die to yourself, you find life, and then you truly become.

 

I'm honestly glad this works for you guys, but statements like this are way too close to xianity for me and make me want to run for the hills.