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Goodbye Jesus

What Form Of Spirituality Do You Study/practice These Days?


izzytheterri

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Why does it seem like you're trying to get people to preach to you? There is no dogma behind this. Only personal experience. Would your life be better if you meditated? Only you can answer this and you've already said no. Therefore, I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

As far as dying goes. All I can say is "It is in the moment of passing that a person truly knows the meaning of Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaguhhhhh."

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Goodbye Jesus

Thanks antlerman and foxy. I will do it again in the morming with those suggestions in mind.

 

 

Huh? Did I make a suggestion? I hope not. I try not to suggest anything of a spiritual nature anymore. If I did, you have my full apology.

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When you die to yourself, you find life, and then you truly become.

 

I'm honestly glad this works for you guys, but statements like this are way too close to xianity for me and make me want to run for the hills.

I don't have any problem with it sounding familiar in that way. I'm not of the mind that because there are some deeper truths expressed in this religion or that (which this expression is not unique to Christianity, BTW), that it therefore means you have to buy the whole thing in the mythological ways that the religion's mainstream audience does! I'm much beyond feeling at risk of getting swallowed into their immature, literalistic mindsets about their symbolism. What I am expressing is not a theological or metaphysical speculation, but an expression of direct experience.

 

What do you think the Buddhists mean when they are talking about moving beyond your own ego? That's what that means. You die to that false self, in other terms your egoic self identity. That self identity that puts 'you' here, and 'others' there. The true Self is not all that crap you erect and protect as 'you'; your personality, your physical body, your career, your tastes, your family, your friends, their ideas of you you feed back to yourself, etc, etc, etc. Here's the key - if you learn to see and recognize all those things in your life you look to and have been saying "This is who I am", then who exactly is it outside of that recognizing it? We move from symbolic object to symbolic object in our lives within our minds saying, "This is me", but each time there is 'someone' who is doing the observing. Who is that?

 

Eventually as we exhaust those illusions of self, here it comes..... we release all those false identities of our egoic self and in essence, die as that 'me'; we die to that self. We then recognize that our self is an illusion and we awaken to our true Self, free from that illusion. Our ego is now an object, and no longer the subject. We no longer live as that false self. That's where the work of integration of true Self into all the objects of our lives begins.

 

It's too bad for anyone that if it bears similarities, or even direct references to Christianity or any religion someone may have had bad experiences within, that it means you have to run for the hills, tossing the baby along with the bathwater over the edge of the cliff. That baby is our own baby.

 

I quoted this on my facebook page the other day, and I'm going to change my signature line to this now:

 

Many paths lead from the foot of the mountain,
but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon.
Ikkyu - Zen-monk poet, 1394-1481

 

 

My understanding of other religions is very different now, where I am able to comfortably respect where they are at, and appreciate what actual truths they may in fact possesses, even if 99.9% of its followers are oblivious to their meanings.

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While I believe in no afterlife and that there is no authoritative moral guide to how we ought to live I do feel a "connection" between myself and other lifeforms. I see the "spark of life" in everything and it has gotten stronger over time. I guess one way to explain it is that I believe all lifeforms are conscience to one degree or another and thus, are far more like humans than most are willing to admit/believe.

 

When I have my meals now, I have a moment of silent thankfulness but that is the extent of my spiritual exercises. I don't know where this is all coming from but I guess it's a result of my acceptance of evolution and that in turn has led me to see myself amongst animals as opposed to superior or transcendent to them.

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Why does it seem like you're trying to get people to preach to you? There is no dogma behind this. Only personal experience. Would your life be better if you meditated? Only you can answer this and you've already said no. Therefore, I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

As far as dying goes. All I can say is "It is in the moment of passing that a person truly knows the meaning of Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaguhhhhh."

 

Sorry if I offended. I was just trying to understand and giving you an honest reaction to the responses. Like I said, I'm happy it works for you guys. I see no harm in it even if it's not for me.

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That was beautiful, JA. I have a tear in my eye. That's wonderful.

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I don't have any problem with it sounding familiar in that way.

 

I don't want to quibble over this, for as I said, it's not xianity and it seems to work for you guys. However, just to clarify, it's more than just the familiarity of the statement that gives me the massive heebie jeebies. That was my xian experience. Trying to lose myself and allow jesus to live through me, whatever the hell that means. I sincerely tried to live this for years and suffered immensely for it. I have no desire today to lose myself for any idea, alternative reality, what have you.

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Why does it seem like you're trying to get people to preach to you? There is no dogma behind this. Only personal experience. Would your life be better if you meditated? Only you can answer this and you've already said no. Therefore, I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

As far as dying goes. All I can say is "It is in the moment of passing that a person truly knows the meaning of Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaguhhhhh."

 

Sorry if I offended. I was just trying to understand and giving you an honest reaction to the responses. Like I said, I'm happy it works for you guys. I see no harm in it even if it's not for me.

 

Not offended at all. :)

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I am not following any kind of practice or studying any one kind of spiritual path. no. I do not want to get caught up in a structural, rule following, mind twisting, obsessive thing again. I just do what I like and what feels good and more than anything what seems to calm me. being someone who has anxiety and depression I find things that help calm me.

 

I have tried meditation. the sitting down and clearing of mind. I look to it for more of a mental health benefit rather than a spiritual practice. I occasionally do meditate but I find that to be good at it or for it to be a health benefit you need to be disciplined and make it a daily practice. I have no doubt it would be helpful for the depression and anxiety but I cannot do the daily regime. It's too regimented for my liking.

 

I have no clue if this is spiritual or not but I can sit out and observe and listen to nature. It's a form of meditation and is easier for me. I find nature calms me, makes me feel good. I do not contemplate on how these things got here, I do not start analyzing where, how and what if anything bigger exists. I just won't go there in my mind.

I just enjoy the present moment of watching a bird hop around...I enjoy the beauty of a flower, I examine the intricate detail of an insect crawling on a leaf. I watch the trees, I listen to the breeze. I look at clouds. I look at the night sky. I just breathe in and exhale and it makes me calmer inside.

 

If I can't get outside then I can listen to music. Light a candle and watch it flicker, I can soak in a tub of water and just feel how amazing water is.

 

I think more than anything I am looking at the value of being present. being in the here and now. I am avoiding looking at the past and avoiding looking too far into the future.

 

I think I got so damaged by the christian religion I just won't explore anything else too deeply to the extent that I could get obsessed with it. I got so obsessed with the Christian religion before and I just don't want to get like that about anything else including spirituality. I need to keep that balance and be very careful because I can become OCD like.

 

If we want to put labels to what I am doing, then perhaps it is an eclectic blend of things that I gravitate towards but nothing specific. a touch of Paganism, a touch of Budhism, Native American spirituality, a touch of Taoism, whatever....

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I used to think Buddhism sounded interesting. But after reading some about it, I dunno- it strikes me as an artificial structure. Just another set of sermons, things to know, rules to follow, etc. I've tried meditating (probably not doing it right), and it IS a pretty effective way to fall asleep.

 

Same here. I was trying to get into Buddhism this past summer, but I just couldn't get into it. Like you said - just another set of rules to follow and honestly, it was kind of depressing. It's basically just about being aware of your surroundings all the time, observation, and knowing that good things happen and bad things happen - I already do/know all that stuff and I was looking for hope, but Buddhism doesn't seem to offer that.

 

The meditation stuff and watching my breathing did nothing for me either. unsure.png

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Kemetic Orthodoxy and Vodou.

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I was looking for hope, but Buddhism doesn't seem to offer that.

 

Hope for what?

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Buddhism doesn't offer anything. It doesn't make any wild claims. There is no promise of salvation, eternal life, riches, protection, or redemption. One may practice it. Or they may not practice it. The Western mind wants gratification, reward. If seeking such things, a person should seek them where they might be found. The spiritual paths of the East offer nothing of the sort.

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I am not following any kind of practice or studying any one kind of spiritual path. no. I do not want to get caught up in a structural, rule following, mind twisting, obsessive thing again. I just do what I like and what feels good and more than anything what seems to calm me. being someone who has anxiety and depression I find things that help calm me.

I think it is helpful to recognize that if you take your approach to seek out doing things that help calm you that that is key. If you find structured religions to be a hindrance that says something about where you are at. For me to go into a structure of external rules is in fact to shift the focus away from the internal work to something outside myself. The positive aspect of structures is that for some people it helps to teach a discipline and techniques. It also becomes a tool for them to go to in a group setting to help discipline themselves.

 

The negative aspect of it is when they start looking to the tools to do the internal work for them. The structure is the thing itself! That's where the obsessiveness can come in. That's where the tools become a religious infatuation. They become a substitute for actual awakening, and as they always will therefore not fulfill they begin seeking harder for that within the structure (I'm not praying hard enough!, I don't read my Bible enough!, etc), and eventually become either disillusioned with the whole thing, or stay on that cycle.

 

As far as meditation being part of those structures, sure of course it is. It does not mean it is owned by those structures or disciplines and that if you aren't following those you're "not doing it right". That's dog crap. The right way is the way that works. The wrong way is the way that fails. Religions like Buddhism have great many truths and insights you can take away truth for yourself from. But people don't understand that the religions and their symbols and structures are products of a particular culture. Unless you were raised in that culture the way you relate to those structures will never be the same. The meaning gets lost in the translation, so to speak. But certain aspects of it are trans-cultural.

 

For instance, practicing any discipline on a regular schedule works for all human beings everywhere. If you wish to do physical exercise, only doing it when you feel passing inspirations to do it will result in limited benefit. But if you start with the desire to experience the benefit of a discipline, then your motivation is coming from within, and you recognize that the discipline is a means to an end. You are choosing to do it for yourself. But it is not the exercise itself that 'gives you that', but an engaging of your will, your desire, and your actions that make that happen. To become an adrenaline junky for the sake of the high, seeking the experience of the rush, is to miss the actual health benefits and the original reasons for wishing to exercise. Healthy discipline becomes unhealthy obsessions. The key is to heal that dysfunction inside by clarifying what you wish to attain.

 

You already have schedules and discipline you follow. Just add one more to them. That's another healthy way to look at it. The goal is a well-balanced life; healthy body, healthy mind, healthy spirit. It's nothing supernatural.

 

I have no doubt it would be helpful for the depression and anxiety but I cannot do the daily regime. It's too regimented for my liking.

I don't experience my meditation as 'regimented'. I just add the time to my morning routine, like everything else part of my morning rituals: Having some tea; reading the news; meditating; showering; dressing; catching the bus on time for work. I just set alarms on my phone to help me keep on a schedule. It takes all the stress and anxiety out of the morning rituals not having to obsess "Oh.. I don't have time for that this morning... Oh... hurry I'm going to be late!" Simple discipline in fact eliminates huge unnecessary stresses, and you also benefit from actually getting to enjoy those things and reap the benefit from the practices.

 

As far as 'how to meditate'. Simply find what works for you. Listen to others, experiment. Don't seek to conform. Seek to derive benefit. Seek it for the sake of insight and wholeness. Experience follows, but it should not be the goal.

 

I have no clue if this is spiritual or not but I can sit out and observe and listen to nature. It's a form of meditation and is easier for me. I find nature calms me, makes me feel good. I do not contemplate on how these things got here, I do not start analyzing where, how and what if anything bigger exists. I just won't go there in my mind.

I just enjoy the present moment of watching a bird hop around...I enjoy the beauty of a flower, I examine the intricate detail of an insect crawling on a leaf. I watch the trees, I listen to the breeze. I look at clouds. I look at the night sky. I just breathe in and exhale and it makes me calmer inside.

Ahh, you're singing my songs! Yes, they are a form of meditation and I've lived and experienced these for years. What I have found in going deep inside is a sort of combination of concentrative (quiteting mediation) and insight meditation, is that all those external forms of 'spirit' are found inside ourselves as well. There is as much awe and 'presence' of the world inside our own hearts, minds and souls. It is literally experiencing the universe inside as well as outside and eventually all is One. There is no longer outside or inside but that inspiriation you feel breathing in the universe, is breathed out from you. Heaven disappears and lives within.

 

I'll share something from a Sufi mystic I read recently that expresses this very well:

 

“There are lights which ascend and lights which descend. The ascending lights are the lights of the heart; the descending lights are those of the Throne. The false self is the veil between the Throne and the heart. When this veil is torn, and a door opens in the heart, like springs towards like. Light ascends toward light and light descends upon light, and it is ‘light upon light’.

 

When each time the heart sighs for the throne the throne sighs for the heart, so they come to meet. Each time a light ascends from you, a light descends toward you. If their energies are equal, then they meet halfway. But when the substance of light has grown in you, then this makes up a whole in relation to what is in the same nature in Heaven. Then, it is the substance of light in Heaven that longs for you, and is drawn to your light, and it descends toward you. This is the secret of the mystical journey.”

 

9th Century Sufi mystic, Najim al-Din Hubra

 

 

I'm not intending to convince you to do what you aren't interested in doing. My intention is to address some points I heard you raise that I know well as I shared the same thoughts. There is something about breaking these things free from external structures, "this is how you do it" sort of rules and regimes, that don't work for the likes of you or me. There is not a one size fits all approach, but like the body has to have food to stay healthy, it has to eat. It doesn't matter what the dish is, so long as it works to sustain you in a healthy way.

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I don't have any problem with it sounding familiar in that way.

 

I don't want to quibble over this, for as I said, it's not xianity and it seems to work for you guys. However, just to clarify, it's more than just the familiarity of the statement that gives me the massive heebie jeebies. That was my xian experience. Trying to lose myself and allow jesus to live through me, whatever the hell that means. I sincerely tried to live this for years and suffered immensely for it. I have no desire today to lose myself for any idea, alternative reality, what have you.

 

Hahaha... oh yeah, I remember that part of christianity. I kept praying for the Holy Spirit to posess me a little more thoroughly so I wouldn't have to live my life. I wanted to be a zombie. I wanted to die, but found suicide immoral (I'd hurt too many other humans), so I kept asking God to just let me (the mind-me) go away (from my body) so He could run things for me. This urge seemed to be in line with Christianity, becuase in heaven we get glorified bodies and don't sin any more... that means in heaven we're a different person. Why would God force me to keep sinning and failing here on earth when He's got the power to make me perfect?

 

The reason I don't get the creeps from Antlerman's statement (even if it's not useful for me) is that meditation traditions seem to tell me that the part of me I was trying to kill off to make room for God is actually the me that I would find if I killed off my fake persona. I had a few images in my head that described the previous paragraph. One of them was a sort of Pandora's Box where I stuffed all the "bad" parts of me into a box and burried the box in the back of the mental attic. At some point, that box got cracks in it and the stuff I was hiding from started to leak out. A slightly more positive symbolism was the thing in the cocoon. I knew it was a part of me, and sometimes I knew it was important and I was going to need it. But often when I'd go to find it, I wasn't ready, it wasn't ready, and it was asleep, waiting. It has since woken up. While it was asleep, I created a mask to wear, lived an incomplete persona. So sometimes the idea of killing off the false person so I can start living as the real me is appealing (as opposed to killing off the real me so that I can be a Jesus-clone). But usually, I go with the imagery of broken pottery, or superimposed layers, or puzzle pieces that I need to incoportate into a single coherent whole. Instead of killing off a non-me, I'm trying to accept that all of it is me and I need to get them to work together. (On bad days, we'd have commitee meetings in my head with a large number of personalities, with one bland one created as the observer that would have to choose the body's actions. I found it interesting that no matter how often the thoughts about myself in my head were plural, my vocalizations about myself always came out in the singular, and I could feel the shift occurring, because I/we knew that once the current issues were resolved, the various voices would merge back into the singular me.) For a while, when I needed to pull strength from the whatever-it-is, I'd picture a bluish-black amorphous blob starting in my chest cavity forming itself into a humanoid shape and lining up with my physical body. Then we'd merge, and I've have access to its resources for a time. I haven't needed that imagery in a while, and am now able to work with the more mundane thought "it's ok to be in a bad mood and stand up for myself when wronged" to get the same effect.

 

Another interesting realization I had in the process was that killing was a bad symbol for me. Just like the issues with "Don't think about a pink elephant!", trying to make bad thoughts go away never worked. I had to change it to a additive concept instead, more like "Bad stuff is here, so let's balance it out by adding good stuff". I could never be wholly composed of good thoughts. I just had to get the sum total of my thoughts to be more good than bad.

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Thanks for the reply VF. I'm one of those on here that doesn't seem to understand or feel a need for spirituality; at least not in the same way guys like you and AM understand it or use it, but I found your post interesting to read and I very much appreciate it.

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I don't have any problem with it sounding familiar in that way.

 

I don't want to quibble over this, for as I said, it's not xianity and it seems to work for you guys. However, just to clarify, it's more than just the familiarity of the statement that gives me the massive heebie jeebies. That was my xian experience. Trying to lose myself and allow jesus to live through me, whatever the hell that means. I sincerely tried to live this for years and suffered immensely for it. I have no desire today to lose myself for any idea, alternative reality, what have you.

 

Hahaha... oh yeah, I remember that part of christianity. I kept praying for the Holy Spirit to posess me a little more thoroughly so I wouldn't have to live my life. I wanted to be a zombie. I wanted to die, but found suicide immoral (I'd hurt too many other humans), so I kept asking God to just let me (the mind-me) go away (from my body) so He could run things for me. This urge seemed to be in line with Christianity, becuase in heaven we get glorified bodies and don't sin any more... that means in heaven we're a different person. Why would God force me to keep sinning and failing here on earth when He's got the power to make me perfect?

 

The reason I don't get the creeps from Antlerman's statement (even if it's not useful for me) is that meditation traditions seem to tell me that the part of me I was trying to kill off to make room for God is actually the me that I would find if I killed off my fake persona. I had a few images in my head that described the previous paragraph. One of them was a sort of Pandora's Box where I stuffed all the "bad" parts of me into a box and burried the box in the back of the mental attic. At some point, that box got cracks in it and the stuff I was hiding from started to leak out. A slightly more positive symbolism was the thing in the cocoon. I knew it was a part of me, and sometimes I knew it was important and I was going to need it. But often when I'd go to find it, I wasn't ready, it wasn't ready, and it was asleep, waiting. It has since woken up. While it was asleep, I created a mask to wear, lived an incomplete persona. So sometimes the idea of killing off the false person so I can start living as the real me is appealing (as opposed to killing off the real me so that I can be a Jesus-clone). But usually, I go with the imagery of broken pottery, or superimposed layers, or puzzle pieces that I need to incoportate into a single coherent whole. Instead of killing off a non-me, I'm trying to accept that all of it is me and I need to get them to work together. (On bad days, we'd have commitee meetings in my head with a large number of personalities, with one bland one created as the observer that would have to choose the body's actions. I found it interesting that no matter how often the thoughts about myself in my head were plural, my vocalizations about myself always came out in the singular, and I could feel the shift occurring, because I/we knew that once the current issues were resolved, the various voices would merge back into the singular me.) For a while, when I needed to pull strength from the whatever-it-is, I'd picture a bluish-black amorphous blob starting in my chest cavity forming itself into a humanoid shape and lining up with my physical body. Then we'd merge, and I've have access to its resources for a time. I haven't needed that imagery in a while, and am now able to work with the more mundane thought "it's ok to be in a bad mood and stand up for myself when wronged" to get the same effect.

Wow, thank you for this. I didn't have time to put together a response for Vigile, and the things you say here touch very much on what I was planning to say. I was going to say, it's all about contexts. In the Christian context because they externalize all of this, it creates this disunity in ourselves. The whole thing about darkness really struck this home.

 

In the Christian context they are split within themselves and pray to God to save them from the devil. In reality that devil is ourselves. It is our own darkness we hide in the shadows and don't want to face. So as the Christian prays, "God, make it go away, save me from Satan", they in fact are not learning anything of how to make themselves whole by embracing their dark parts and learning how to integrate their power in positive ways. You need to first be made whole before you can hope to mature to the next stage of your growth.

 

What happened for me, like in your descriptions, in meditation I actually felt a very dark and foreboding presence behind me. It is how my subconscious mind projected it to my conscious mind. But instead of being freaked about it, through intuition I knew that I should not be afraid but rather embrace it, take into myself with my mind. As I did that, it became like this ugly child I was cradling in my arms looking up at me. I tried to accept it, to channel peace through myself but I was still quite uncomfortable with it. As it weighed on me, a moment just came to me and I vocalized "I am both". At that moment a tremendous light released from me, as it were, and I felt this consuming energy of power through my entire mind and body. Ever since that experience of release I have felt incredibly grounded, centered, stable, and whole. The hidden conflicts of that 'shadow-persona' came to light and were accepted as part of me.

 

The whole 'surrendering yourself' business is in fact true, but not in the way your traditional Christian understands it. They seek to escape themselves. This is not that at all. It is to confront yourself and embrace the lower into the higher to become whole. It is not being saved from from this life. It is embracing it and channeling its power for higher truth. It makes me sad in so many ways to see the Christian locked in this split dichotomy, the denial of themselves. You don't conquer the devil by driving it out. You embrace it, as it is after all you yourself you only see as the devil, and make it part of yourself informed by higher mind and spirit. You take its energy and instead of releasing it in mindless and destructive ways, you channel to release it in mindful and constructive ways.

 

Context. Yes, spiritual experiences may be similar, but the framework with which they can be used to transform us in positive and healthful ways is not the same. One leaves you in a battle zone in yourself, the other with peace.

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If I had to classify myself, I would consider myself an agnostic pagan. There is a spiritual aspect/inter-connectedness to nature, but I don't personify it and worship it as the god/goddess like the wiccans do. These days I just do lots and lots of energy work.

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Thanks antlerman and foxy. I will do it again in the morming with those suggestions in mind.

 

 

Huh? Did I make a suggestion? I hope not. I try not to suggest anything of a spiritual nature anymore. If I did, you have my full apology.

Sorry foxy. I was taking pointers from your post. It wasn't directed at me specifically.

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Hi NotBlinded! It's good to virtually "see" you again!

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Antlerman, i won't feel too bad about seeing that tiny mouth with its gnashing teeth while I was meditating that I didn't tell you about then. :)

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Hi NotBlinded! It's good to virtually "see" you again!

 

Hi there agnosticator! It's good to see you too!

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NOTBLINDED!!!!!!!

It is sooo good to see you!

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NOTBLINDED!!!!!!!

It is sooo good to see you!

Legion!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buddy, friend, pal and very special person...how the hell are ya???

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I am not following any kind of practice or studying any one kind of spiritual path. no. I do not want to get caught up in a structural, rule following, mind twisting, obsessive thing again. I just do what I like and what feels good and more than anything what seems to calm me. being someone who has anxiety and depression I find things that help calm me.

I think it is helpful to recognize that if you take your approach to seek out doing things that help calm you that that is key. If you find structured religions to be a hindrance that says something about where you are at. For me to go into a structure of external rules is in fact to shift the focus away from the internal work to something outside myself. The positive aspect of structures is that for some people it helps to teach a discipline and techniques. It also becomes a tool for them to go to in a group setting to help discipline themselves.

 

The negative aspect of it is when they start looking to the tools to do the internal work for them. The structure is the thing itself! That's where the obsessiveness can come in. That's where the tools become a religious infatuation. They become a substitute for actual awakening, and as they always will therefore not fulfill they begin seeking harder for that within the structure (I'm not praying hard enough!, I don't read my Bible enough!, etc), and eventually become either disillusioned with the whole thing, or stay on that cycle.

 

As far as meditation being part of those structures, sure of course it is. It does not mean it is owned by those structures or disciplines and that if you aren't following those you're "not doing it right". That's dog crap. The right way is the way that works. The wrong way is the way that fails. Religions like Buddhism have great many truths and insights you can take away truth for yourself from. But people don't understand that the religions and their symbols and structures are products of a particular culture. Unless you were raised in that culture the way you relate to those structures will never be the same. The meaning gets lost in the translation, so to speak. But certain aspects of it are trans-cultural.

 

For instance, practicing any discipline on a regular schedule works for all human beings everywhere. If you wish to do physical exercise, only doing it when you feel passing inspirations to do it will result in limited benefit. But if you start with the desire to experience the benefit of a discipline, then your motivation is coming from within, and you recognize that the discipline is a means to an end. You are choosing to do it for yourself. But it is not the exercise itself that 'gives you that', but an engaging of your will, your desire, and your actions that make that happen. To become an adrenaline junky for the sake of the high, seeking the experience of the rush, is to miss the actual health benefits and the original reasons for wishing to exercise. Healthy discipline becomes unhealthy obsessions. The key is to heal that dysfunction inside by clarifying what you wish to attain.

 

You already have schedules and discipline you follow. Just add one more to them. That's another healthy way to look at it. The goal is a well-balanced life; healthy body, healthy mind, healthy spirit. It's nothing supernatural.

 

I have no doubt it would be helpful for the depression and anxiety but I cannot do the daily regime. It's too regimented for my liking.

I don't experience my meditation as 'regimented'. I just add the time to my morning routine, like everything else part of my morning rituals: Having some tea; reading the news; meditating; showering; dressing; catching the bus on time for work. I just set alarms on my phone to help me keep on a schedule. It takes all the stress and anxiety out of the morning rituals not having to obsess "Oh.. I don't have time for that this morning... Oh... hurry I'm going to be late!" Simple discipline in fact eliminates huge unnecessary stresses, and you also benefit from actually getting to enjoy those things and reap the benefit from the practices.

 

As far as 'how to meditate'. Simply find what works for you. Listen to others, experiment. Don't seek to conform. Seek to derive benefit. Seek it for the sake of insight and wholeness. Experience follows, but it should not be the goal.

 

I have no clue if this is spiritual or not but I can sit out and observe and listen to nature. It's a form of meditation and is easier for me. I find nature calms me, makes me feel good. I do not contemplate on how these things got here, I do not start analyzing where, how and what if anything bigger exists. I just won't go there in my mind.

I just enjoy the present moment of watching a bird hop around...I enjoy the beauty of a flower, I examine the intricate detail of an insect crawling on a leaf. I watch the trees, I listen to the breeze. I look at clouds. I look at the night sky. I just breathe in and exhale and it makes me calmer inside.

Ahh, you're singing my songs! Yes, they are a form of meditation and I've lived and experienced these for years. What I have found in going deep inside is a sort of combination of concentrative (quiteting mediation) and insight meditation, is that all those external forms of 'spirit' are found inside ourselves as well. There is as much awe and 'presence' of the world inside our own hearts, minds and souls. It is literally experiencing the universe inside as well as outside and eventually all is One. There is no longer outside or inside but that inspiriation you feel breathing in the universe, is breathed out from you. Heaven disappears and lives within.

 

I'll share something from a Sufi mystic I read recently that expresses this very well:

 

“There are lights which ascend and lights which descend. The ascending lights are the lights of the heart; the descending lights are those of the Throne. The false self is the veil between the Throne and the heart. When this veil is torn, and a door opens in the heart, like springs towards like. Light ascends toward light and light descends upon light, and it is ‘light upon light’.

 

When each time the heart sighs for the throne the throne sighs for the heart, so they come to meet. Each time a light ascends from you, a light descends toward you. If their energies are equal, then they meet halfway. But when the substance of light has grown in you, then this makes up a whole in relation to what is in the same nature in Heaven. Then, it is the substance of light in Heaven that longs for you, and is drawn to your light, and it descends toward you. This is the secret of the mystical journey.”

 

9th Century Sufi mystic, Najim al-Din Hubra

 

 

I'm not intending to convince you to do what you aren't interested in doing. My intention is to address some points I heard you raise that I know well as I shared the same thoughts. There is something about breaking these things free from external structures, "this is how you do it" sort of rules and regimes, that don't work for the likes of you or me. There is not a one size fits all approach, but like the body has to have food to stay healthy, it has to eat. It doesn't matter what the dish is, so long as it works to sustain you in a healthy way.

 

Thank you for all of this and I feel that you understand where I am coming from. I appreciate that. You said some helpful things and have given me food for thought. cool. smile.png

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