What Form Of Spirituality Do You Study/practice These Days?

[Rev R]

Sorry. I missed this somehow.

 

Good point, but I guess I'm more of a risk taker.

 

What could possibly be riskier than a willing dissolution of the notion of self?

 

Good talking to you though. We'll have to do this again sometime.

[Mudhoney]

I have recently deconverted and while I am 100% sure that xtianity is a crock of shit I'm scared that there will be no afterlife. So, because of this fear I'm reading up on anything having to do with contacting the afterlife. I haven't done it yet but I plan on having a reading done by a medium to see if she tells me anything spooky. If this life is all there is and I will cease to exist after I die, well, that's too much for me to take in right now. I've been reading up on traditional withcraft and plan on ordering Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon. If anyone has read this can I please have some feedback?

[lunaticheathen]

I haven't read that book in particular, but a caveat about Hermetic practices - it's basically Medieval Christian magic. Anything authentic will have heavy Christian overtones - little about "Christ", but a lot about YHVH and the "Creator", framed as a male deity. Not saying it's invalid, or useless, I quite like many aspects of Hermetics, just a little warning if you are still sensitive to such language.

 

If you're just getting your feet wet, I recommend Scott Cunningham on Wicca and general pagan practices. He's a good springboard. If you want anything heavier and more specific, shoot me a PM and I'll dig through my library and reading lists.

[Mudhoney]

I haven't read that book in particular, but a caveat about Hermetic practices - it's basically Medieval Christian magic. Anything authentic will have heavy Christian overtones - little about "Christ", but a lot about YHVH and the "Creator", framed as a male deity. Not saying it's invalid, or useless, I quite like many aspects of Hermetics, just a little warning if you are still sensitive to such language.

 

If you're just getting your feet wet, I recommend Scott Cunningham on Wicca and general pagan practices. He's a good springboard. If you want anything heavier and more specific, shoot me a PM and I'll dig through my library and reading lists.

Thank you for the information, I didn't know this about hermeticism. I'd like to stay away from anything with xtian undertones at the moment so this saved me some money on Amazon. I have read Scott Cunnigham's Book of Shadows and Essential Wicca by Paul Tuitean and Estelle Daniels but I'm losing interest in Wicca because I'm apprehensive about the god and goddess worship. I want to be careful about getting involved with religion again. I understand traditional witchcraft to work with spirits but not necessarily any deities. I was also interested in hoodoo but discovered this was a form of xtian magic- there are spells worked using the book of Psalms.

[lunaticheathen]

Hoodoo is Southern US folk magic, so yes, it will have spells involving bible verses and saints - it's a mix of African, Native American, and Catholic practices.

Witchcraft can be approached as simply an esoteric science, and not a religion, surely. Buckland has a more dry, systematic approach to witchcraft, Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft. AKA, "The giant blue book." It even has a lesson layout, and will speak on deity, but is considered a standard.

I honestly can't think of any witchcraft book I've encountered that doesn't at least mention deity in some form - of course, this was never a problem for me, I've never been atheist, just disgusted with Abraham's god. Many modern pagans, however, view the gods as concepts and not literal, and some of that can be found in neo-pagan literature. I tend to disagree with this view, but whatever works for others.

[stryper]

to answer the OP

 

i follow the Micheal teachings.

 

www.truthloveenergy.com for more informaton.

[Will02]

I haven't read that book in particular, but a caveat about Hermetic practices - it's basically Medieval Christian magic. Anything authentic will have heavy Christian overtones - little about "Christ", but a lot about YHVH and the "Creator", framed as a male deity. Not saying it's invalid, or useless, I quite like many aspects of Hermetics, just a little warning if you are still sensitive to such language.

 

If you're just getting your feet wet, I recommend Scott Cunningham on Wicca and general pagan practices. He's a good springboard. If you want anything heavier and more specific, shoot me a PM and I'll dig through my library and reading lists.

 

Yep, hermetic stuff like the Lesser Banishing Ritual is full of references to YYWH, angels, etc. I personally find it distasteful. Of course, you could swap these references out with something else and it would probably still work.

 

Scott Cunningham's stuff is good for a start, but what I’ve read of his is fairly light on energy work and doesn't go much beyond the basics.

[Will02]

I understand traditional witchcraft to work with spirits but not necessarily any deities. I was also interested in hoodoo but discovered this was a form of xtian magic- there are spells worked using the book of Psalms.

 

If you're new to working with spirits, be careful. At the very least you should have basic competence in shielding and banishing before you even attempt it. Some offensive techniques are also good to have if you know them and can use them.. they can save your ass if things suddenly get bad!

 

Before getting started with this stuff, I suggest you read Psychic Self Defense by Dion Fortune. It's an old book from the early 20th century and although the writing style is old-fashioned the teachings are still mostly sound. The only problems are the slight (yet tolerable) christian influence in some of the author's rhetoric and the fact that it is geared towards covens rather than solitaries.

 

As far as magick goes, I quickly found out when I started that intent + energy is what makes everything work, not blind adherence to a spell or tradition. Most work is done by wanting to do it badly enough through sheer willpower. When christians who are otherwise non-practicioners have their prayers miraculously come true, this is probably what happened.

[lunaticheathen]

Before getting started with this stuff, I suggest you read Psychic Self Defense by Dion Fortune. It's an old book from the early 20th century and although the writing style is old-fashioned the teachings are still mostly sound.

I'm kicking myself for forgetting to mention Fortune. That's a really good book.

Also, yes, I know Cunningham is very very basic, but for beginners, I find his work very useful for opening the conversation and leading to deeper study.

[Will02]

True, Cunningham does cover the basics rather well, but the really good stuff isn't something you're going to find in any book you can pick up on Amazon/Barnes and Noble.

 

I only started making significant progress after I found someone who could teach me one-on-one.

[Foxy Methoxy]

Thanks antlerman and foxy. I will do it again in the morming with those suggestions in mind.

 

 

Huh? Did I make a suggestion? I hope not. I try not to suggest anything of a spiritual nature anymore. If I did, you have my full apology.

Sorry foxy. I was taking pointers from your post. It wasn't directed at me specifically.

 

Oh! OK. Phew! If I get preachy, I need to stop. I hopefully only explained what works for me and didn't revert to evangelical "sharing."

[TotalWreck]

 

Hope for what?

 

Hope that life will get better.

 

Buddhism doesn't offer anything. It doesn't make any wild claims. There is no promise of salvation, eternal life, riches, protection, or redemption. One may practice it. Or they may not practice it. The Western mind wants gratification, reward. If seeking such things, a person should seek them where they might be found. The spiritual paths of the East offer nothing of the sort.

 

You're absolutely right. And when I eventually realized this, I decided it wasn't for me.

[Rev R]

Hope that life will get better.

 

I'm not going to pretend to understand the circumstances of your life, but know this: the power to make life better lies within your own mind- but it is an activity not a belief. If you ever say to yourself, "If x, then I will be happy," you only perpetuate the problem. There are no magic words, magical beliefs, or gods out there to wipe all the unhappiness from your life and there doesn't need to be. Don't learn a system or a belief; learn to let go of the conditions you place on happiness.

[Legion]

Behold, you could place me in a dark closet and I could allow myself to be happy merely by observing my own mind.

[badpuppy]

Like the OP, the closest and most accurate label for me is Buddhist. Since deconverting from Christianity, I’ve tried a lot of different things, but none of them quite fit. One thing I tried was a few different forms of paganism, and while I do still find a lot of value in many pagan things and continue to incorporate myths and ritual that I find personally meaningful, especially with regards to the turning of the seasons, Buddhism is my foundation.

 

I don’t accept an entirely mechanistic universe as the most rational interpretation of the information in front of us, though, so I don’t want to be confused with atheists who call themselves Buddhist to follow the philosophy. I accept their right to use that label, but I think samsara, reincarnation, nirvana, etc... are part of the path, and reducing it to metaphor doesn’t make it a “better Buddhism” necessarily. I believe matter comes from consciousness, not the other way around and that consensus reality can best be described as a sort of “group dream”.

 

I believe in the concept of soul and that it’s nature is eternal but not based upon wishful thinking. It’s just what makes the most sense to me as the nature of things. While I think monotheism has way too many holes in it, I don’t find materialistic atheism to be a much better interpretation of the data. (From my perspective only. I don’t define my personal perspective as empirical reality. I’m not all-knowing.)

 

When I was Christian, after awhile it was only due to fear. It wasn’t that I actually thought it made sense or that it spoke to me.. This sounds awful but I’ve always found Christianity a little “dorky”, personally. So it was hard for me to understand those who were so into it. I thought at first they must just be “scared” too, but eventually I came to understand that some people really do connect with it for whatever reason. I’ve had conversations with Christians but I don’t seek them out generally, and I can’t bring myself to try to deconvert them. The conversation always gets to the point where I realize it’s like picking on a small child. I know the facts are on my side at least in terms of the odds of a literalistic monotheism being true, and the end results are... they either do whatever is necessary to maintain their views or they deconvert, which was such a painful experience for me, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone who didn’t seek it out.

 

When I briefly tried to be atheist, it was another situation where I felt pressured to accept something that didn’t make sense to me. But in this case instead of fear of hell the fear was that people would look down on me as a stupid child (i.e. in the sense that they find spiritual belief childish and unintelligent). After awhile I got over that because really... being dishonest isn’t intelligent. Plus, I’ve now had the experience of meeting stupid and brilliant people of all philosophies, so it’s hard for me to put much stock in: “I’m smarter than you, better than you, and more logical than you because I think the world is nothing more than chemicals reacting to one another.”

 

The biggest challenge I think for me was finding a path that honored how I viewed reality without insisting that there were all these invisible realities constantly bumping up against ours. While I do believe in other realities, I don’t believe they interact directly with ours. Though I believe in an afterlife and that this is in a sense “hell”, I don’t believe it’s retributive or punishment. It’s just the nature of things, IMO. I think there are higher/better places but that one has to reach a level of spiritual evolution to go there.

 

I don’t think there are any all-powerful deities that can intervene, so the hell we create in this world is of our own making. No devils to blame and no gods to appeal to. I think it’s possible humanity can someday evolve away from harmful ways of thinking to a more “heaven-like” place, though it’ll never be perfect. Though I think “if” such a thing happens before we destroy our planet entirely, it’s a long way off, and I don’t have the personal patience for it. I’d rather just get to the point where I can move up to a better reality.

 

Anyway that is WAY long-winded but that’s where I am. I’m far from perfect and don’t aspire to be perfect. I aspire to try to understand others and myself and to be a decent person. Though I definitely have a very passionate (and to some, perhaps offensive) streak on certain topics (Obvious to anyone who witnessed my views on abortion in another sub-forum LOL).

[Foxy Methoxy]

 

Buddhism doesn't offer anything. It doesn't make any wild claims. There is no promise of salvation, eternal life, riches, protection, or redemption. One may practice it. Or they may not practice it. The Western mind wants gratification, reward. If seeking such things, a person should seek them where they might be found. The spiritual paths of the East offer nothing of the sort.

 

You're absolutely right. And when I eventually realized this, I decided it wasn't for me.

 

For me, it wasn't enough. It is important to me to explore such ideas, but the ones that ultimately stuck with me were more Western in tradition.

[badpuppy]

If only I knew how to influence people so profoundly, I'd make them all think for themselves against their own will.

 

heh. I think a lot of people are just scared. They've been given something so logically untenable and told it's the absolute truth that they are living on the christian/nothing dichotomy. They've accepted Christianity so strongly that if they defect from the ranks what else is there? And can they ever trust themselves and their own perception again? It's too much uncertainty at work and too much fear. It's easy to stay in the cocoon even though there are problems. I do wish all people would learn to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions... but what if someone does that and STILL comes away with Christianity? We can still say they're brainwashed, but maybe that's how their brain works. We could then maybe say they were stupid, but we probably couldn't say it without sounding like smug assholes. I wish people could fast forward their development to catch up with those of us who have moved beyond "received infallible truth". But it seems like the same kind of betrayal just from the other side. And saying it's for someone's own good or society's own good, still doesn't sit well with me. Of course I'm very libertarian, so some of my libertarianism may be showing as well.

[badpuppy]

I don't practice any form of spirituality that I'm aware of.

 

I know that spirituality is a part of the human experience- it's 'real' at least in that sense. But whatever part of my brain would be engaged by spirituality seems to be either broken or inaccessible to me on a conscious level.

 

I don't mean any offense to those who have found something, it could very well be the case that it is ME who is broken and not participating in something that is innately human. I just don't get it at all.

 

 

Sorry for a million postings here. I'm about to shut up and just read and absorb. But I wanted to say... I don't think you're broken. I think the point of things basically boils down to Bill and Ted's Excellent adventure: "Be excellent to one another." I don't think any spiritual beliefs are required for that. Nor do I think spirituality makes someone "better" than someone non-spiritual or that atheism OR theism is some kind of "broken state". I just wish people wouldn't insist they are right and therefore everyone else must fall in line "for their own good". I think that life is a unique journey. Some people need/prefer a certain type of framework to get the most out of it. Some people don't. Neither is better than the other, IMO.

[Foxy Methoxy]

If only I knew how to influence people so profoundly, I'd make them all think for themselves against their own will.

 

heh. I think a lot of people are just scared. They've been given something so logically untenable and told it's the absolute truth that they are living on the christian/nothing dichotomy. They've accepted Christianity so strongly that if they defect from the ranks what else is there? And can they ever trust themselves and their own perception again? It's too much uncertainty at work and too much fear. It's easy to stay in the cocoon even though there are problems. I do wish all people would learn to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions... but what if someone does that and STILL comes away with Christianity? We can still say they're brainwashed, but maybe that's how their brain works. We could then maybe say they were stupid, but we probably couldn't say it without sounding like smug assholes. I wish people could fast forward their development to catch up with those of us who have moved beyond "received infallible truth". But it seems like the same kind of betrayal just from the other side. And saying it's for someone's own good or society's own good, still doesn't sit well with me. Of course I'm very libertarian, so some of my libertarianism may be showing as well.

 

And that's the irony of libertarianism. If everyone was a libertarian, the world would be a better place, but in order to do so, you'd have to force everyone to become a libertarian, which would in effect destroy everything libertarianism stands for. The same holds true in religious free thinking.

[badpuppy]

 

 

And that's the irony of libertarianism. If everyone was a libertarian, the world would be a better place, but in order to do so, you'd have to force everyone to become a libertarian, which would in effect destroy everything libertarianism stands for. The same holds true in religious free thinking.

 

A lot of ideas only work in theory because you have to interrupt other people's free will for them to work. Since we have government and laws, I think ideally it would be better if they were more Libertarian, but I agree, you just can't get everyone on board with "live and let live" without violating THEIR free will. Even if they go along with it culturally, they will still believe others are wrong and they are right and therefore they have some moral imperative to correct others "for their own good".

 

The best I can do is live my own life as a libertarian, acknowledge my own sovereignty over my own self and make the choices that I feel are most moral for me without stepping on the choices of others, and actively resisting those who seek to enslave me to their will.

[Kurari]

I would say I'm an atheist pagan. I have a healthy practice of Buddhism going, but I've never really been able to get into the iconography. So I use more neo-pagan witch archetypes and celebrate the Sabbats and Esbats.

[badpuppy]

I would say I'm an atheist pagan. I have a healthy practice of Buddhism going, but I've never really been able to get into the iconography. So I use more neo-pagan witch archetypes and celebrate the Sabbats and Esbats.

 

I think that's a cool blend. I see a lot of value in much of the pagan way of observing turning of seasons and various natural cycles.

[BlueGiant]

To answer the OP, I've developed my own eclectic system. I've lifted a fair bit from Wiccan and general neopagan practices, chaos magick, and philosophical Taoism. I do have certain gods/archetypes I like to work with, and do have a tendency to change dependening on what sort of subtext I want, but usually Hephaestus/Athena. Oh, and throw in some animism including mechanical anamism. And a fierce independent streak.

 

Be happy to answer questions if you have any. This is my own hand-rolled, home-grown for personal use only spiritual path.

[Legato]

I'm considering buddhism as I'm comfortable with some of it's concepts, particularly mindfulness. I used to think that the whole concept of spirituality and a "soul" was a bunch of crap. But recently I've been taking another look at it. The purely rational route has caused me to feel cold on the inside and treat people as objects to gain something from instead of people I can learn from. When I was a christian I felt empathy (but only for other christians because fuck the heathens!) and that's something I've been missing. I don't think it's important to have a specific religious label or rigid set of rules to follow, but I think it's important to have awareness of the surrounding environment and how it effects everyday life. And to not take it for granted.

 

For example, instead of diving right into a meal or saying a canned prayer as I used to:

 

I take a moment before each meal to appreciate what's on the plate. I visualize the journey of the food in reverse from the plate to the kitchen to the grocery store to the cargo truck to the farm and visualize the hands that helped it move from the soil to my plate. I think acknowledging the existence and value of these connections brings me closer to humanity which is what I'm really looking for.

 

I'm just getting started on this path though so if anyone has suggestions fire away.

[badpuppy]

That's really cool, Legato. It makes me think of the Native Americans who thanked the animal before killing it for food.