I Got A Surprise Visit. Need Help

[London]

Good for you for standing up to the evil. You, like everyone, deserves to be free of the cult. It can be very hard to recover from the xian life, it is like escaping a cult.

 

What always helps me are a few things. 1) There is a DEAD man nailed to a cross in almost every church, they worship this. NOT a happy, life affirming image. When your dog dies do you nail him to the wall and tell people "Hey that was Sparky, we loved him." See the crazy for what it is. 2) If you change the word god to zeus in your head while they are talking, it makes it all a silly conversation. None of it makes sense. How afraid of that can you be? Can you keep from laughing when you do this? After all it is Zeus' will, Zeus does love, blessed be Zeus. (you could use a different word like Hootie or Chicklets ). 3) YOUR life is no one's business. This applies to everyone, not just xians. YOU decide who to share your life with. And thank you for sharing with us. 4) Don't be afraid to offend someone who is unkind. You mentioned that she was in your former church & she is older. THAT's the xian guilt control. Let's pretend for a moment that we are all xian again... she is SATAN in disguise! Ok, no more pretending. But seriously, look at how she acted, if we were xian her behavior is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

You are recovering from a traumatic experience, xianity, & she basically came to remind you of that trauma. How cruel of her. Everyone here is right, it IS abuse.

If there was a god and he wanted you in his flock, he never would have let you go. But it is all mythology, so good for you for telling her to FLOCK off!

If she bothers you again I would ask her if satan is propelling her to harm you by harassing you. See how she reacts to that. Personally I think xians behave more like their satan than a good thing.

I and Zeus are rooting for you, or was that hootie, or chicklets... regardless I am rooting for you.

[Sissi71]

Dear Jdog,

 

You must understand that like this person they will try to reconvert you and use all the way. They will try to control you with fear again, demons, Satan....Don't forget that christians are also controlled by fear, some of them I knew were obsessed by "spiritual war" and wasted all the time to cast out demons. It is control mind. I remember someone tried to cast out demon from me when I was christian and had emotional struggle and in fact my problem did not disappear.

We can also be vulnerable after our deconversion, especially when we spent so many years in christianity. Doubt will sometimes come, but you must remember that the most important are you own beliefs and not what christians try to put in your head again.

 

They can control you with different way : fear, love bombing (God loves you, you are so important for him, for us and bla bla bla), some will just reject you or cut ties with you.

 

Be aware of that. You must remember that for them YOU ARE LOST because they are so convinced they have the truth. But they are wrong.

[ConureDelSol]

JDog,

 

I feel you on this one. Prayer really weirds me out too at times. Over the years it has been easier to accept (yes, I let those around me pray, bear with me here). The reason it is easier to accept (for me) is that when one asks to pray for me, I see it as their personal expression/attempt to help however they think they can (besides actually just handing me a blank check or new kidney). Kind of picturing your intimidating boss naked during a board meeting approach. I make it clear though I am not comfortable with actual physical contact though, and it better be a private setting.

 

I think the only two people I cannot stand praying for me are my parents. BUT that is a whole nother ball of really screwed up wax. When those two start, I make it clear they have to desist before I physically want to hurt them.

 

I understand the guilt as well. I went through phases of that for awhile. But I felt guilt not because I didn't believe, but because I really felt that I had caused concern in their lives for me. I have a major complex about not wanting to rock the boat, so when people would call me up, it made me feel bad for them being concerned about me. Kind of stupid I know.

 

Over time, things will get easier. Maybe set more boundaries. Did you find out what motivated her to just look you up out of the blue? Do they have a bible study where maybe they set up a weekly goal to work towards (my father's church does that)? You might want to send a polite email to the pastor explaining that you aren't trying to engage a debate, but want to make it clear you are fine with where your life is and would appreciate not having anymore intrusive experiences like that.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

To be honest, I've always viewed the "I'll pray for you" thing as a different message depending on the person. For some people, I think they are really sincere and are trying to do it for my well-being in a "I'm not asking God to change you, just for Him to help you out right now" sort of way.

 

Now OTHER people... There are some people who say "I'll pray for you" and actually mean "I'm condemning you because you're an abomination to God and I don't approve of you. I hope you rot in Hell, but on the off-chance that you might turn from your blasphemous ways I'll ask God to change everything about you to make you more presentable to society."

 

Maybe I'm bitter or something, but this is just how I see it.

[Sissi71]

I think some are sincere like I was when I had the fire for God and evangelize. But they ignore they manipulate people. I realized one day that all the books of evangelization that gives you tools to "bring people to Jesus" are manipulation : "you must be like that

with this kind of person, you don't with this other person". If they are not opened talk about hell and judgment of God....if they are opened to the Gospel, speak about the love of God. In fact use love bombing with open mind people and use fear with people that have critical mind....

[Adamtrev11]

I just signed up for these forums and read through this thread last night. Since then, I've been thinking about this story a lot and considering what I would do if I was in this scenario. I can really relate to what jdog is going through. It's so typical of something that would happen to me. Thankfully I haven't come out of the closet yet. I grew up in a devout fundie family, my dad was a pastor, and all my simblings (except my younger brother) believed in following Christ and they believed seemingly without a doubt. The town I grew up in was full of fundies, so basically everyone I knew and hung out with was strong devout Christians.

 

Throughout my childhood, I had occasional moments where I believed, but for the most part, I thought it was BS. My younger brother was the same way, and we kept each other in line. ;-) Today, every single Christian in my life assumes we're believers, although presumably they think we're lukewarm Christians. Just last week, my parents told me they pray for me every day. I only responded with a 'thank you'.. oops. It would be a lot worse if we all lived in the same town today. Fortunately I live across the country from where I grew up and don't have to deal with all the fundies on a regular basis. If an old fundie friend popped up at my front door uninvited, I'd be a nervous wreck. I have anxiety too, so I'd probably let them do or say whatever they felt God was directing them to do, but I wish I had the courage to speak up like jdog. I imagine it would feel empowering. I'm still unsure whether I'll stay in the closet for a while or have the courage to come out.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

JDog,

 

I feel you on this one. Prayer really weirds me out too at times. Over the years it has been easier to accept (yes, I let those around me pray, bear with me here). The reason it is easier to accept (for me) is that when one asks to pray for me, I see it as their personal expression/attempt to help however they think they can (besides actually just handing me a blank check or new kidney). Kind of picturing your intimidating boss naked during a board meeting approach. I make it clear though I am not comfortable with actual physical contact though, and it better be a private setting.

 

I think the only two people I cannot stand praying for me are my parents. BUT that is a whole nother ball of really screwed up wax. When those two start, I make it clear they have to desist before I physically want to hurt them.

 

I understand the guilt as well. I went through phases of that for awhile. But I felt guilt not because I didn't believe, but because I really felt that I had caused concern in their lives for me. I have a major complex about not wanting to rock the boat, so when people would call me up, it made me feel bad for them being concerned about me. Kind of stupid I know.

 

Over time, things will get easier. Maybe set more boundaries. Did you find out what motivated her to just look you up out of the blue? Do they have a bible study where maybe they set up a weekly goal to work towards (my father's church does that)? You might want to send a polite email to the pastor explaining that you aren't trying to engage a debate, but want to make it clear you are fine with where your life is and would appreciate not having anymore intrusive experiences like that.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

To be honest, I've always viewed the "I'll pray for you" thing as a different message depending on the person. For some people, I think they are really sincere and are trying to do it for my well-being in a "I'm not asking God to change you, just for Him to help you out right now" sort of way.

 

Now OTHER people... There are some people who say "I'll pray for you" and actually mean "I'm condemning you because you're an abomination to God and I don't approve of you. I hope you rot in Hell, but on the off-chance that you might turn from your blasphemous ways I'll ask God to change everything about you to make you more presentable to society."

 

Maybe I'm bitter or something, but this is just how I see it.

 

No there are those who use the whole "I'll pray for you line" as a closer to an argument. A final cat scratch as you will. And when that happens, I say ,"Do that you ingenuous a******e. And I will call your church and have you put on the prayer chain for being such a petty piece of ****."

[Jessie]

What sort of questions did she bring up, if it isn't too personal? Maybe we can help you out with them.

[lunaticheathen]

You know i ended up in tears when she was here because she was badgering me...because she said I needed to cry out to god and humble myself and to be broken... and I told her that I have been there and done that more than once in my life and also after my surgery I was in a bit of a dark place and I did call out to god. and NOTHING! it really got to me when she insinuated that perhaps i was or had not been broken enough. omg. she has no clue where I have been in my life and how I have fallen on my knees crying out to god. I can't say how painful it has been. I know so many of you have been there and can identify with how insulting it is if someone says that you haven't been humble enough, broken enough or your faith hasn't been strong enough...etc...

it's like how dare anyone say that.

 

What a horrible bitch. Positivist is right, that's abuse, and I would have decked her for saying that shit.

But your email was probably the much better response, and GOOD FOR YOU for sending it. Never let that hateful woman into your home again, she just want s brownie points from her sadistic god. And she has the god she deserves.

[jdog]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and feedback. It really means a lot to me to know I am not alone on this.

I wish I had the courage to actually say things to the person's face but I didn't. I still feel good about what I did. I still get the twinge of guilt and especially today as I received a card in the mail from the woman which says the following.

 

Dear ......

 

Just a note to acknowledge that I did receive your e-mail. And I am sorry for my insensitivity. And I do respect your position.

Please know that I am available if any time you want to continue our relationship and always want to be available should you have any prayer needs.

 

sincerely

........

 

 

so it seems I am not going to be hearing from her again

.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

Jdog,

 

I really like the email you sent to her.

 

This is my favorite part:

If the God that you believe in is as powerful as you think and believe him to be then he can get in touch with us directly.

Because, really, that's the crux of it... especially if she only came over to "get you back in the fold."

 

I still get the twinge of guilt and

I know this feeling really well. Seriously, though, she was not just insensitive, she was a complete jerk in some ways.

 

If you don't want to hear from her again, I hope you actually don't. Some people will send notes like the one you just got from her but then eventually will try something along the lines of the same thing.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Ms Jdog,

 

Learning to bake a big ole pie filled with hand whipped cold rolled, triple glazed "Fuck Off And Die". Served with a delicious repast of "Eat shit and live, I'd prefer to see you suffer". Drowned down with a "Piss on you, what a total waste of my life" not yet used first beers.

 

If none of that works, having ability to look some fool such as yer visitor and politely as them to vacate is valuable.

 

Spend some time in mirror and practice your game face and the gawdawful sneer of doom... Even if you are so torn up internlly by having to act so unlike your normal self by "being mean", not having this shit in your home will be worth it.

 

Remember, when someone, sans warrant, is in your home, they are either family or invited. When not invited, they have no "right" to breathe your air.

Toss the jerk(s) out.

 

Admirable that you've held onto sanity so far. Great job!

 

kevinL

[TotalWreck]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and feedback. It really means a lot to me to know I am not alone on this.

I wish I had the courage to actually say things to the person's face but I didn't. I still feel good about what I did. I still get the twinge of guilt and especially today as I received a card in the mail from the woman which says the following.

 

Dear ......

 

Just a note to acknowledge that I did receive your e-mail. And I am sorry for my insensitivity. And I do respect your position.

Please know that I am available if any time you want to continue our relationship and always want to be available should you have any prayer needs.

 

sincerely

........

 

 

so it seems I am not going to be hearing from her again

.

 

The card she sent just goes to show she does NOT respect your position, because if she did, then she would be able to be friends with you without trying to force HER beliefs on you. I don't understand fundies like that - is it really that hard to realize you can be friends with someone without bringing up religion?

[London]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and feedback. It really means a lot to me to know I am not alone on this.

I wish I had the courage to actually say things to the person's face but I didn't. I still feel good about what I did. I still get the twinge of guilt and especially today as I received a card in the mail from the woman which says the following.

 

Dear ......

 

Just a note to acknowledge that I did receive your e-mail. And I am sorry for my insensitivity. And I do respect your position.

Please know that I am available if any time you want to continue our relationship and always want to be available should you have any prayer needs.

 

sincerely

........

 

 

so it seems I am not going to be hearing from her again

.

 

The card she sent just goes to show she does NOT respect your position, because if she did, then she would be able to be friends with you without trying to force HER beliefs on you. I don't understand fundies like that - is it really that hard to realize you can be friends with someone without bringing up religion?

No, it's a cult. The cult ALWAYS comes first. Safety, happiness, medical attention, relationships (healthy ones), etc, always come after the cult, if they ever bother. Remember how bad hitler wanted his goal? Same thing with the cult.