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Does Anyone Else Find Mega-churches A Insult To Humanity?


Kaiser01
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so i had to go to a mega church this morning and it was a god awful experince.

 

ill start out with this churchs budget, 2 million dollars and their running about 1500 people a week.

 

it discust me all the money that goes into these biuldings just to make them look nice, think what if all that money went to cancer reserch. i mean even the pencils on every chair probly cost a dollar a peice while their chairs are probobly 50$ a peice.

 

the preacher got up there and was talking about how when he was in high shcool he allways wanted to be a preacher and his giudence counsler said he wouldent be able to make a living that way...well the counsler ddint know he would have a 2 million dollar budget.

 

whats even worse is the finance guy of the church got up there at the end and said they were "short" on money.

 

the preacher got up there and was talking about "why we are a christian nation" and he invoked the puritans to prove it. a ordinance made in 1633 in salem stated that any one who did not belive in jesus they would cut their head off, this was his proof. yea those same people who wrote that also burned 19 women for having epilepsy and "sneezing" difrently.

 

then after the service when all the emotion had just happend they took up a offering..of course so more people would be prone to give for the bankrupt 2 million dollar church.......

 

just a day in the lifeGONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif i find these things a simple insullt how about you?

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so i had to go to a mega church this morning and it was a god awful experince.

 

ill start out with this churchs budget, 2 million dollars and their running about 1500 people a week.

 

it discust me all the money that goes into these biuldings just to make them look nice, think what if all that money went to cancer reserch. i mean even the pencils on every chair probly cost a dollar a peice while their chairs are probobly 50$ a peice.

 

the preacher got up there and was talking about how when he was in high shcool he allways wanted to be a preacher and his giudence counsler said he wouldent be able to make a living that way...well the counsler ddint know he would have a 2 million dollar budget.

 

whats even worse is the finance guy of the church got up there at the end and said they were "short" on money.

 

the preacher got up there and was talking about "why we are a christian nation" and he invoked the puritans to prove it. a ordinance made in 1633 in salem stated that any one who did not belive in jesus they would cut their head off, this was his proof. yea those same people who wrote that also burned 19 women for having epilepsy and "sneezing" difrently.

 

then after the service when all the emotion had just happend they took up a offering..of course so more people would be prone to give for the bankrupt 2 million dollar church.......

 

just a day in the lifeGONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif i find these things a simple insullt how about you?

 

 

Fundies always forget that the Anglican Jamestown settlers came first. They had a distinctly secular bent compared to the New England Puritans. It was said that in New England a community would spend 5 pounds on a tavern and 50 pounds on a church, and in Virginia those figures were reversed. Also, by the time of the revolution Puritan devotion had faded into Unitarianism for many in the north. From Virginia we got stalwart secularists like Madison and Jefferson.

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The church I was in was a megachurch. Though the whole country is struggling economically but they managed to build several big church houses around the country and they managed to buy a TV station and the top leaders have a luxury life. They call it God's blessing. I call it exploitation.

 

As you can imagine, church isn't just a good business in the US, it's also a good business here. At least for a select few. There are 14 churches in my country which get tax payer money as a support - and this megachurch is among them. All of these select 14 churches are Judeo-Christian churches (10 or 11 Christian and 3 or 4 Jewish). Apart from this, just like in the US they can collect money from their faithful tax free. Like I said the whole country is struggling economically. Huge unemployment, low wages, huge taxes, but this does not affect churches at all. After all they get financial support from the state and they don't even have to pay taxes after all their incomes. Oh yeah, Christians are so, so persecuted in this world!

 

The average churchgoer is not rich, just like most people in this country are not rich, but the brainwash is so strong that they will rather give their last penny than to disappoint God. After all the poor widow did that too. And while the average believer struggles to somehow make ends meet the church leaders buy luxury cars and holiday houses.

 

While I was in I was so blind to this though the whole system is ridiculously transparent.

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I was musing about this the other day. Here in the US, churches have these awesome buildings and are exempt from property taxes, sales taxes, etc. Isn't this a crock? A little Baptist church that I used to to to for awhile, ran an automotive repair shop for the community, a food pantry, and did all kinds of help for the community. Their little church was nice but nothing extravagant at all. I don't have any problem with a place like that being tax exempt. Maybe there should at least be some type of sliding scale that if a church gave some percentage of their income for charitable work, they could be tax exempt. Otherwise, make them pay, just like all the rest of us. Maybe 10% - since that is how much they expect us to give.

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About 10 years ago my wife and I attended a church where the minister tried to create a mega-church. It started off with a initiative to get every member to sign a promise to put at least $50 in the collection plate every Sunday. Then there was an effort to sell the present building (because it was unsound and needed to be torn down) and find property where a huge new church could be built. Around the same time there was a drive to finance his daughters mission trip to Kenya which came in around $75,000.00 for a year. I had been to Kenya a couple times and I knew you could live like a king in Kenya for 75K. I had my suspicions about this minister not only from his ambition but because he was a finance manager who had had to declare bankruptcy some years earlier due to a $4 million debt. So we left that church and a year later found that most of the other 150+ members had left as well. Last we heard that minister was holding services for a dozen or so at a leased defunct movie theater and the old church still stands and is used by Methodists.

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I was musing about this the other day. Here in the US, churches have these awesome buildings and are exempt from property taxes, sales taxes, etc. Isn't this a crock? A little Baptist church that I used to to to for awhile, ran an automotive repair shop for the community, a food pantry, and did all kinds of help for the community. Their little church was nice but nothing extravagant at all. I don't have any problem with a place like that being tax exempt. Maybe there should at least be some type of sliding scale that if a church gave some percentage of their income for charitable work, they could be tax exempt. Otherwise, make them pay, just like all the rest of us. Maybe 10% - since that is how much they expect us to give.

 

yea would make sense but there is allways seperation of church and state.

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The church I was in was a megachurch. Though the whole country is struggling economically but they managed to build several big church houses around the country and they managed to buy a TV station and the top leaders have a luxury life. They call it God's blessing. I call it exploitation.

 

As you can imagine, church isn't just a good business in the US, it's also a good business here. At least for a select few. There are 14 churches in my country which get tax payer money as a support - and this megachurch is among them. All of these select 14 churches are Judeo-Christian churches (10 or 11 Christian and 3 or 4 Jewish). Apart from this, just like in the US they can collect money from their faithful tax free. Like I said the whole country is struggling economically. Huge unemployment, low wages, huge taxes, but this does not affect churches at all. After all they get financial support from the state and they don't even have to pay taxes after all their incomes. Oh yeah, Christians are so, so persecuted in this world!

 

The average churchgoer is not rich, just like most people in this country are not rich, but the brainwash is so strong that they will rather give their last penny than to disappoint God. After all the poor widow did that too. And while the average believer struggles to somehow make ends meet the church leaders buy luxury cars and holiday houses.

 

While I was in I was so blind to this though the whole system is ridiculously transparent.

 

they really are money launderers.

 

i mean could you imagine if all the money used to keep the worlds church lights on every sunday went to AIDs reserch?

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well, $2,000,000 in Singapore Mega Churches would be considered small change...

 

2 mega churches are now competing who got a bigger dick but committing to a US$200 mil auditorium to hold services for their 20-30,000 members congregation.

 

One of the preachers annual "income" is $500,000 and many members considered under-paying the preacher. And the preacher is entering the US market for a bigger piece of cake.

 

BTW, there are still many who are homeless and poor sick people who cannot afford medicine, and old folks at age of 70 and above working as toilet cleaners and garnbage collectors in Singapore,,,,

 

Praise the fucking lord

 

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well, $2,000,000 in Singapore Mega Churches would be considered small change...

 

2 mega churches are now competing who got a bigger dick but committing to a US$200 mil auditorium to hold services for their 20-30,000 members congregation.

 

One of the preachers annual "income" is $500,000 and many members considered under-paying the preacher. And the preacher is entering the US market for a bigger piece of cake.

 

BTW, there are still many who are homeless and poor sick people who cannot afford medicine, and old folks at age of 70 and above working as toilet cleaners and garnbage collectors in Singapore,,,,

 

Praise the fucking lord

man thats crazy 200 million!?!! thats a absurd amount of money, they should really redistribute that to the poor in singapore (in the form of job creation).

 

but you also haft to know i live in rural arkansas so a 2 million dollar church is reallly alot in comparision.

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What country do you live in? Here in Russia it's almost impossible to find a protestant church. I only know they exist because I met a Korean guy who said he was pastor of a small protestant church here in St Petersburg. I don't know any Russians who go to church and don't know any orthodox churches here that hold anything close to a "service" in the same sense of the word that protestant churches do. They mainly exist as historical monuments and places for babushki to burn candles and say a prayer. There is an orthodox channel on TV that has orthodox priests giving words of wisdom and performing ceremonies, but it lacks any charisma and exists merely for superstitious reasons I think. I doubt anyone watches it and gets riled up the way people do over channels like TBN. In fact, I doubt anyone really watches it at all unless they are trying to fall asleep.

 

I'm a bit surprised that protestant religion has made any inroads into E Europe given my experiences here in Russia. People here are just not interested as far as I can tell.

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A megachurch bought all the farmland where I used to fly kites and play as a kid.

They paved it all and built a hideous monstrosity on it.

2 years later they packed up, left and moved somewhere else.

Like a ravenous insatiable beast rampaging through the countryside, destroying the landscape.

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What country do you live in? Here in Russia it's almost impossible to find a protestant church. I only know they exist because I met a Korean guy who said he was pastor of a small protestant church here in St Petersburg. I don't know any Russians who go to church and don't know any orthodox churches here that hold anything close to a "service" in the same sense of the word that protestant churches do. They mainly exist as historical monuments and places for babushki to burn candles and say a prayer. There is an orthodox channel on TV that has orthodox priests giving words of wisdom and performing ceremonies, but it lacks any charisma and exists merely for superstitious reasons I think. I doubt anyone watches it and gets riled up the way people do over channels like TBN. In fact, I doubt anyone really watches it at all unless they are trying to fall asleep.

 

I'm a bit surprised that protestant religion has made any inroads into E Europe given my experiences here in Russia. People here are just not interested as far as I can tell.

 

 

Hungary.

 

This is a Roman Catholic dominated country, but we have Protestant churches as well. Lutherans and Calvinists first - so the traditional types. Then comes the Pentecostal megachurch I was a member of. It's called Faith Church. Here is a Wikipedia entry about them: http://en.wikipedia....Church,_Hungary

 

Faith Church is a major Pentecostal church in Hungary. The community is one of Europe's largest pentecostal-evangelical Christian churches, and the country's fourth most supported church (based on the 1% tax designation to churches). It kept its official church status after the Orbán government's 2011 reduction[1] of the number of churches.

 

Faith Church accepts the results and spiritual, moral values of both early Christianity and the Reformation, as well as other revival movements serving the progress of the Christian faith. Faith Church is a strong advocate of Christian Zionism, and well known for its commitment to support the State of Israel. [2]

 

Actually it was pretty surprising that Orbán's government gave them official state church status since until about two years ago Faith Church and Orbán's party were very hostile to each other. Faith Church is very political and they always supported either the liberals or the socialist party. I know that sounds strange in America, but here the political climate is very different. Right wing parties are allies of the so called historical churches - Catholics mainly -, and Faith Church being as anti-Catholic as they are (Catholicsm is Babylon described in Revelation bla-bla-bla) of course couldn't have a place in that alliance. Also Pentecostal churches were a relatively new phenomenon here after the fall of socialism, so most people considered them (perhaps still do) as crazy cults as opposed to the "respectable" traditional churches. Because of this the liberal party, which was for freedom of religion, was the main political ally of Faith Church for a long time. However, of course, Faith Church grew unsatisfied with the fact the liberals also actively support gay rights (of course, that's why they are liberals) and such, so after a while that alliance broke up and then for a short while they supported the socialist party - which is also basically a kind of liberal party here, more so than really socialist. I think this was a compromise for them, they rather just didn't want Orbán's government to get on power and since the socialists were the main opponents of Orbán, they supported them.

 

But this is the past. Something changed behind the scenes about two years ago. After decades of feud, at the last elections in 2010 Faith Church suddenly told its members to support Orbán's party...

It's clear now that they made a pact with the party and this is why now Faith Church is among the official 14 state churches that get state financing. Why did Orbán make a pact with Faith Church? Well, because they have influence. While the majority of people still look at them as a kind of cult, but they have a large, disciplined following, lots of money and one of the main TV channels in the country. The "disciplined" members mean that they will vote for anybody who the pastor tells them to vote for at any election. So it doesn't harm for Orbán if he has those votes in his pocket as well.

 

The main ally of Orbán are still the Catholics though and they don't like Faith Church and vica versa, but I think Faith Church will back off with its anti-Catholic rethoric now a little.

 

The Wikipedia article says:

 

 

Faith Church follows the biblical model of the self-supporting church. It does not receive any other financial support from the state, aside from the 1% tax designations for churches and the normatives available to schools.

 

Well, that churches can get 1% of the taxes and normatives for schools is already a big support - I mean why should churches get that? But they do. Based on the number of their membership. But like I said the really big business for churches is the fact they can collect money from their members tax free: the tithe and many other ways of getting members' money.

 

It's a dangerous phenomenon right now that in many villages and even cities churches (mainly the catholic church) take over schools those were so far run by local governments. But the local governments didn't get much money from the state to support these schools and they can't afford it any more. However when a church takes over they get lots of money from the state in support of that! This is how they kill off secular education now and help the Catholic Church to get back its old influence.

 

We are going back to the middle ages.

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Back in the early stages of deconversion I went to a megachurch for a few weeks to get some sense of contrast. This particular church was extremely evangelistic-focused... even though I wasn't a member and no one there actually knew me I suspected that if I hung around long enough they would try to get me to sign up for a missionary trip (Even in this fucking economy it would be at my expense, of course! ) They seemed to have a quantity-over-quality approach to evangelizing, and it was easy to be in a room filled with over 2000 people there and still feel utterly alone. The vibe I got from the place actually felt poisonous, and I'm really sensitive to stuff like that.

 

This church also did lots of dishonest shit... one small group I attended briefly was planning a missionary trip to Cuba. Now, Americans can't just go to Cuba, (last time I checked) so the plan was to go to Mexico first, switch out the USA visas for Mexican ones, and then go on from there. That can't be legal and you will probably be in real deep shit if you get caught doing that! Enjoy your stay in Cuban or Mexican jail....

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A megachurch bought all the farmland where I used to fly kites and play as a kid.

They paved it all and built a hideous monstrosity on it.

2 years later they packed up, left and moved somewhere else.

Like a ravenous insatiable beast rampaging through the countryside, destroying the landscape.

That's horrible. sad.png

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They only really started to spring up here in the last 10-15 years, always in the poorer outlying suburbs (coincidence?)Now we have our only delightful Aussie brand of them getting about, the Hillsong mob. He'll sing the money right outta your wallet, Hallejuhah!

 

I've only ever watched them on TV in a sort of morbid fascination. It's kind of no different to a staged hypnosis show but at least with those folks know they're going to an entertainment.It always looks shady and tacky. The music, the lights, the woo woo, the freaking falling down.The carefully selected biblical context. Always, always at the end with the money to donate to the church then marketing to us in TV land at home to buy some this or that, tape or book and we'll throw in this lovely prayer-shawl and send a pair of shoes to a child being brainwashed by our missionaries in South America as an added bonus!

 

I've never seen one mega church leader whose entire demeanor didn't scream 'Sideshow Carny'.

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I hate megachurches with a passion. The pastors are always fake, superficial, arrogant, and obnoxious, and I abhor the idea of women having to fit a 1950's house-wife mould- thanks arseholes, I'm still trying to get rid of that shit from my head!

 

Oh, and the money, jesus, they love to harp on about money. It's all about the money. I'm sorry, didn't Jesus trash the temple over money-making exercises? I wonder what their Jesus would think about their books, CD's, DVD's, and whatever other junk they can sell to the blindly following.

 

Oh, but what I love are the tele-evangelists. "Send us $1000(USD) and we will send you this gift- a beautiful prayer shawl with Hewbrew scriptures on it (just don't mention that it was made in a sweatshop in China)."

 

And I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the megachurches are ALWAYS crying poor, while smaller churches just make do.

 

Megachurches- religion for the consumerist.

 

Okay, I think I'm done now :P

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What country do you live in? Here in Russia it's almost impossible to find a protestant church. I only know they exist because I met a Korean guy who said he was pastor of a small protestant church here in St Petersburg. I don't know any Russians who go to church and don't know any orthodox churches here that hold anything close to a "service" in the same sense of the word that protestant churches do. They mainly exist as historical monuments and places for babushki to burn candles and say a prayer. There is an orthodox channel on TV that has orthodox priests giving words of wisdom and performing ceremonies, but it lacks any charisma and exists merely for superstitious reasons I think. I doubt anyone watches it and gets riled up the way people do over channels like TBN. In fact, I doubt anyone really watches it at all unless they are trying to fall asleep.

 

I'm a bit surprised that protestant religion has made any inroads into E Europe given my experiences here in Russia. People here are just not interested as far as I can tell.

 

 

Hungary.

 

This is a Roman Catholic dominated country, but we have Protestant churches as well. Lutherans and Calvinists first - so the traditional types. Then comes the Pentecostal megachurch I was a member of. It's called Faith Church. Here is a Wikipedia entry about them: http://en.wikipedia....Church,_Hungary

 

Faith Church is a major Pentecostal church in Hungary. The community is one of Europe's largest pentecostal-evangelical Christian churches, and the country's fourth most supported church (based on the 1% tax designation to churches). It kept its official church status after the Orbán government's 2011 reduction[1] of the number of churches.

 

Faith Church accepts the results and spiritual, moral values of both early Christianity and the Reformation, as well as other revival movements serving the progress of the Christian faith. Faith Church is a strong advocate of Christian Zionism, and well known for its commitment to support the State of Israel. [2]

 

Actually it was pretty surprising that Orbán's government gave them official state church status since until about two years ago Faith Church and Orbán's party were very hostile to each other. Faith Church is very political and they always supported either the liberals or the socialist party. I know that sounds strange in America, but here the political climate is very different. Right wing parties are allies of the so called historical churches - Catholics mainly -, and Faith Church being as anti-Catholic as they are (Catholicsm is Babylon described in Revelation bla-bla-bla) of course couldn't have a place in that alliance. Also Pentecostal churches were a relatively new phenomenon here after the fall of socialism, so most people considered them (perhaps still do) as crazy cults as opposed to the "respectable" traditional churches. Because of this the liberal party, which was for freedom of religion, was the main political ally of Faith Church for a long time. However, of course, Faith Church grew unsatisfied with the fact the liberals also actively support gay rights (of course, that's why they are liberals) and such, so after a while that alliance broke up and then for a short while they supported the socialist party - which is also basically a kind of liberal party here, more so than really socialist. I think this was a compromise for them, they rather just didn't want Orbán's government to get on power and since the socialists were the main opponents of Orbán, they supported them.

 

But this is the past. Something changed behind the scenes about two years ago. After decades of feud, at the last elections in 2010 Faith Church suddenly told its members to support Orbán's party...

It's clear now that they made a pact with the party and this is why now Faith Church is among the official 14 state churches that get state financing. Why did Orbán make a pact with Faith Church? Well, because they have influence. While the majority of people still look at them as a kind of cult, but they have a large, disciplined following, lots of money and one of the main TV channels in the country. The "disciplined" members mean that they will vote for anybody who the pastor tells them to vote for at any election. So it doesn't harm for Orbán if he has those votes in his pocket as well.

 

The main ally of Orbán are still the Catholics though and they don't like Faith Church and vica versa, but I think Faith Church will back off with its anti-Catholic rethoric now a little.

 

The Wikipedia article says:

 

 

Faith Church follows the biblical model of the self-supporting church. It does not receive any other financial support from the state, aside from the 1% tax designations for churches and the normatives available to schools.

 

Well, that churches can get 1% of the taxes and normatives for schools is already a big support - I mean why should churches get that? But they do. Based on the number of their membership. But like I said the really big business for churches is the fact they can collect money from their members tax free: the tithe and many other ways of getting members' money.

 

It's a dangerous phenomenon right now that in many villages and even cities churches (mainly the catholic church) take over schools those were so far run by local governments. But the local governments didn't get much money from the state to support these schools and they can't afford it any more. However when a church takes over they get lots of money from the state in support of that! This is how they kill off secular education now and help the Catholic Church to get back its old influence.

 

We are going back to the middle ages.

Szia Suzy! Kicsi a világ. :)

 

Actually the "traditional" pentecostal church (EPK) in Hungary dates back to the 1930's and has ~80 churches nationwide, but it is more like a calvinist church without the crazy "manifestations". However, The Faith Church was the first truly charismatic denomination in Hungary. I remember the first news from the "manifestations of the holy ghost". Everybody was like wtf when we first saw the videos (on VHS) form the falling-down-to-the-ground, the jumping, shouting and barking blessings. That was the first period when the members of the EPK halved and went to the Faith Church.

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Megachurches- religion for the consumerist.

 

Okay, I think I'm done now tongue.png

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

I doubt it but you keep telling yourself that. ;)

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Szia Suzy! Kicsi a világ. :) Actually the "traditional" pentecostal church (EPK) in Hungary dates back to the 1930's and has ~80 churches nationwide, but it is more like a calvinist church without the crazy "manifestations". However, The Faith Church was the first truly charismatic denomination in Hungary. I remember the first news from the "manifestations of the holy ghost". Everybody was like wtf when we first saw the videos (on VHS) form the falling-down-to-the-ground, the jumping, shouting and barking blessings. That was the first period when the members of the EPK halved and went to the Faith Church.

 

Szia! Tényleg kicsi. jesus.gif

 

So you came from a traditional pentecostal church (EPK)?

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Oh, megachurches. What a waste of spaces they are. Tacky. Vain. Shallow. Moneyworshipping. Asswit preachers. Desperate worshippers. Crappy music. Less the said about them, the better.

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Szia Suzy! Kicsi a világ. smile.png Actually the "traditional" pentecostal church (EPK) in Hungary dates back to the 1930's and has ~80 churches nationwide, but it is more like a calvinist church without the crazy "manifestations". However, The Faith Church was the first truly charismatic denomination in Hungary. I remember the first news from the "manifestations of the holy ghost". Everybody was like wtf when we first saw the videos (on VHS) form the falling-down-to-the-ground, the jumping, shouting and barking blessings. That was the first period when the members of the EPK halved and went to the Faith Church.

 

Szia! Tényleg kicsi. jesus.gif

 

So you came from a traditional pentecostal church (EPK)?

 

Yup! From the largest Budapest church of EPK, Agape.

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Just today I read where this gigantic Christ Fellowship Church in town was wanting to move into a department store in a mall that didn't make it financially.

 

Christ Fellowship's main campus is a 300,000-square foot church on 40 acres on Northlake Boulevard. With an estimated 17,000 attending regular weekend services there and at its other locations, it is one of Palm Beach County's largest congregations.

 

In 2005, it paid $12 million and built a church in a gutted 120,000-square-foot Target store at State Road 7 and Southern Boulevard in Royal Palm Beach.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/christ-fellowship-megachurch-wants-to-buy-old-dillards-2019013.html?showComments=true

 

Now they want another store. The Target wasn't quite big enough. Not enough room for those gigantic screens. The pastor isn't quite rich enough.

 

Actually it is kind of fitting. The lousy "church" belongs in a mall.

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Actually it is kind of fitting. The lousy "church" belongs in a mall.

That is oddly fitting, actually. Everything that's wrong with suburbia rolled up in one place. tongue.png

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Does anyone remember an article earlier this year about a Megachurch being forced to pay taxes on a gym they charged money for? The church tried to worm out of it by deeming the gym one of its "ministries."

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