Kepler Probe Begins To Find Exoplanets In Habitable Zone (And other cool cosmology stuff)

[Vigile]

I think any civilization that far away from us with sufficient technology to reach us would consider us and our cruelty and violence to be primitive and barbaric. I don't think it's logical to assume you acquire that much technology and keep your planet going without evolving a more peaceful consciousness. To sufficiently advanced aliens, we would be seen probably like WE see ancient Aztec human sacrifice.

 

Cool, we find common ground at last. Totally agree with you here.

[badpuppy]

I think any civilization that far away from us with sufficient technology to reach us would consider us and our cruelty and violence to be primitive and barbaric. I don't think it's logical to assume you acquire that much technology and keep your planet going without evolving a more peaceful consciousness. To sufficiently advanced aliens, we would be seen probably like WE see ancient Aztec human sacrifice.

 

Cool, we find common ground at last. Totally agree with you here.

 

Bwahahahahaha! SCORE!

[Tabula Rasa]

Here's something I've thought in regard to why we haven't been contacted by advanced civilizations. Perhaps it might be because they want us to have freedom to decide our own fate even if it means our destruction. Something like Star Trek's prime directive.

[stryper]

Here's something I've thought in regard to why we haven't been contacted by advanced civilizations. Perhaps it might be because they want us to have freedom to decide our own fate even if it means our destruction. Something like Star Trek's prime directive.

 

Mostly likely. Though there could be other reasons. Perhaps there is a "protector" race that has been helping us along for one reason or another. Maybe there is something like a cosmic UN that prohibits contact with less developed races, like you said. Perhaps we are a form of conciseness that isn't recognized as such because the norm is so different.

 

Or based on the sheer number of UFO sightings over the centuries, perhaps we are being watched and intense debates are happening galacticly about how first contact should be made. Suddenly? or released slowly through the world governments? Maybe the paranormal guys are right that crop circles are like a rorschach test to see if we are ready.

 

Based on our movies, TV shows about aliens invading and destorying us.....do you think they'd want to?

 

Just throwing out some speculation.

[stryper]

 

The problem with that is that totalitarianism always fails eventually. Maybe an alien civilization would be different enough from human beings to make it work, but for us, we always fight for freedom in the end. But, it's all speculation so of course you could be right. Though I do think if such an advanced civilization existed who could actually come here who was actually interested in being here, we would not be having this conversation because they would have subjugated us all or killed us. So, another point for "peaceful or uninterested" IMO.

 

This is very true. Eventually North Korea will fail. The Soviet Union did. China has changed dramatically from where it was and could eventually have a more democratic system. Totalitarian states are falling all over the place in the mid-east. And many rose and fell last century in Central and South America. So there is strong indication that people prefer a society where they have more choice and options.

 

If we assume that other alien races are like us in that regard, then it would be difficult to see how they would survive as a totalitarian state.

 

I think it was in the book Contact by Carl Sagan, when the character later played by Jodi Foster was meeting the aliens, they stated something to the effect that those races that are militaristic usually destroy themselves before they become a threat to the other races. Since a Militaristic Totalitarian state is so hard to maintain to begin with....that seems logical, to me.

[badpuppy]

The problem with that is that totalitarianism always fails eventually. Maybe an alien civilization would be different enough from human beings to make it work, but for us, we always fight for freedom in the end. But, it's all speculation so of course you could be right. Though I do think if such an advanced civilization existed who could actually come here who was actually interested in being here, we would not be having this conversation because they would have subjugated us all or killed us. So, another point for "peaceful or uninterested" IMO.

 

This is very true. Eventually North Korea will fail. The Soviet Union did. China has changed dramatically from where it was and could eventually have a more democratic system. Totalitarian states are falling all over the place in the mid-east. And many rose and fell last century in Central and South America. So there is strong indication that people prefer a society where they have more choice and options.

 

If we assume that other alien races are like us in that regard, then it would be difficult to see how they would survive as a totalitarian state.

 

I think it was in the book Contact by Carl Sagan, when the character later played by Jodi Foster was meeting the aliens, they stated something to the effect that those races that are militaristic usually destroy themselves before they become a threat to the other races. Since a Militaristic Totalitarian state is so hard to maintain to begin with....that seems logical, to me.

 

 

Also, slaves don't produce nearly as enthusiastically as free people. You can make more money and have more resources to exploit if you give people enough freedom to WANT to do things. If you have to have someone continually beating them to make them do anything, it's not good. And the more the government tries to interfere, the more we have a welfare state (like what we have in the US right now) and the more the economy fails.

 

It's not that I think this is the "only" reason the economy is failing, but it's pretty much doomed when you subsidize stupid, poor people having lots of babies they can't feed, paid for by the few people who actually ARE producing something.

 

right: re: assuming they are like us in that regard. The only way a totalitarian state would "work" is if they were so unlike us that they preferred being enslaved to being free. Would "liking oppression" be evolutionarily beneficial on ANY planet? It would have to be a very strange planet, IMO. Further... why would a race be enough like us to want to explore hicksville (where we are in the universe), but be SO unlike us with regards to the desire for freedom?

 

And yes, I agree with the Contact logic.

[stryper]

Why did we "discover" Pitcairn Island?

 

Why did we climb everest?

 

Why did we race to the poles?

 

As to evolutionary advantages to "liking oppression", you would first have to understand how they view oppression. Ants and termites have castes. The workers gather food and fix the hive all day, until they die. The "queen" is simply a brood mother and does nothing but spit out kids till she dies. Yet they are not oppressed. Perhaps oppression to an ant would be being forced to "not" work.

 

It would seem that would be a case of Blue and Orange morality.

 

 

Also who would say they even have money or an economy. Could you imagine how a society could work without it? Could you imagine what incentives the individual would have to do anything?

 

If you take out money, then the motivations become more based on social interests then self. Additionally, people will do things because they want to.

 

What would you be doing if you didn't have to work for money?

[badpuppy]

 

What would you be doing if you didn't have to work for money?

 

I do for money the same thing I'd do if I didn't have to work for money.

[stryper]

What would you be doing if you didn't have to work for money?

 

I do for money the same thing I'd do if I didn't have to work for money.

 

Then you have a charmed life compared to the average.

[badpuppy]

What would you be doing if you didn't have to work for money?

 

I do for money the same thing I'd do if I didn't have to work for money.

 

Then you have a charmed life compared to the average.

 

That's very true. And I'm grateful for it.

[bornagainathiest]

http://www.nasa.gov/...newcatalog.html

 

Latest news release!

 

100's of Earth-sized planets... 10 of them in their star's habitable zones.

 

These results come data gathered between from May 09 to Sept 10... Kepler's adding more as we speak.

 

Way to go!

 

BAA.

[stryper]

To quote Peter Griffin

 

"WHY ARE WE NOT FUNDING THIS?!??!!"

[Thought2Much]

It's funny, because I didn't have high hopes for Kepler when I heard about it prior to launch. I thought that since it would be looking at such a small patch of sky for something that is terribly unlikely to occur (transiting planets), that it wouldn't be terribly useful.

 

I am so very happy to be proven 100% wrong about my initial thoughts regarding Kepler.

 

It'll take some kind of follow-up mission to actually find out if any of the earth sized planets in their habitable zones actually have life, but this is still tremendous.

[REBOOT]

Here's something I've thought in regard to why we haven't been contacted by advanced civilizations. Perhaps it might be because they want us to have freedom to decide our own fate even if it means our destruction. Something like Star Trek's prime directive.

 

Mostly likely. Though there could be other reasons. Perhaps there is a "protector" race that has been helping us along for one reason or another. Maybe there is something like a cosmic UN that prohibits contact with less developed races, like you said. Perhaps we are a form of conciseness that isn't recognized as such because the norm is so different.

 

Or based on the sheer number of UFO sightings over the centuries, perhaps we are being watched and intense debates are happening galacticly about how first contact should be made. Suddenly? or released slowly through the world governments? Maybe the paranormal guys are right that crop circles are like a rorschach test to see if we are ready.

 

Based on our movies, TV shows about aliens invading and destorying us.....do you think they'd want to?

 

Just throwing out some speculation.

 

Another possibility is that the earth is a farm where genetic experimentation takes place. Maybe there is value in life forms that have had a certain amount of time to evolve. A sentient life form that is a 2 million years old adaptable to variable extreme environments may have some uses in the colonization of a galaxy

 

But the problems begin as soon as that lifeform starts evolving beyond the parameters of its intended use and starts poking around the kitchen and threatens to blow it up LOL

 

Then the damage control begins

[REBOOT]

My favorite guy is on the subject is Michio Kaku.

[bornagainathiest]

It's funny, because I didn't have high hopes for Kepler when I heard about it prior to launch. I thought that since it would be looking at such a small patch of sky for something that is terribly unlikely to occur (transiting planets), that it wouldn't be terribly useful.

 

I am so very happy to be proven 100% wrong about my initial thoughts regarding Kepler.

 

It'll take some kind of follow-up mission to actually find out if any of the earth sized planets in their habitable zones actually have life, but this is still tremendous.

 

Yes, Trapped.

 

These guys will be tasked with following up what Kepler finds in the way of Earth-sized exoplanets.

 

http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/origins.html

 

http://www.eso.org/public/teles-instr/e-elt.html

(not on it's own, but perhaps it'll see them when it's linked up with other telescopes to form an astronomical interferometer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_interferometer )

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[mymistake]

It's funny, because I didn't have high hopes for Kepler when I heard about it prior to launch. I thought that since it would be looking at such a small patch of sky for something that is terribly unlikely to occur (transiting planets), that it wouldn't be terribly useful.

 

Finding so many in such a small area has astounding ramifications.

 

I am so very happy to be proven 100% wrong about my initial thoughts regarding Kepler.

 

It'll take some kind of follow-up mission to actually find out if any of the earth sized planets in their habitable zones actually have life, but this is still tremendous.

 

Pond scum type life will be everywhere.

[REBOOT]

I am so very happy to be proven 100% wrong about my initial thoughts regarding Kepler.

 

It'll take some kind of follow-up mission to actually find out if any of the earth sized planets in their habitable zones actually have life, but this is still tremendous.

 

Pond scum type life will be everywhere.

 

... more likely in 'goldylock' zones of the billions and billions of stars lol.

 

Pretty safe bet that we don't have the monopoly on scum LMAO.

[FeelHappy]

We're a long way away from even being able to send a probe to our nearest stellar neighbor, at best we can hope to communicate to the closest ones with radio waves (although if this was going to happen you'd expect at least some type of return by now).

 

Here's the thing, any species which is able to travel interstellar space and arrive at our planet is going to have technology so much more advanced than ours that we wouldn't be able to stand up to any type of attack that they could muster. Imagine the best of ancient Roman armies trying to fight against a modern military unit with jets, tank, machine guns ect. We wouldn't stand a chance.

 

The other question is though, why would anyone travel 10-100 light years just to destroy us? (I guess they could want our habitable planet assuming they require the same conditions as ourselves).

[REBOOT]

We're a long way away from even being able to send a probe to our nearest stellar neighbor, at best we can hope to communicate to the closest ones with radio waves (although if this was going to happen you'd expect at least some type of return by now).

 

Here's the thing, any species which is able to travel interstellar space and arrive at our planet is going to have technology so much more advanced than ours that we wouldn't be able to stand up to any type of attack that they could muster. Imagine the best of ancient Roman armies trying to fight against a modern military unit with jets, tank, machine guns ect. We wouldn't stand a chance.

 

The other question is though, why would anyone travel 10-100 light years just to destroy us? (I guess they could want our habitable planet assuming they require the same conditions as ourselves).

 

Could happen under different scenarios... but hasn't happened yet. If it does, then its game over lol... we won't be discussing our destruction after the fact.

 

The 'exploit us' possibility is the only one we can speculate on.

 

As far as travelling through space at near light speed... Our current physics is struggling with the Einsteinian limitation where mass approaching the speed of light will grow to infinity. Either you find gravitational tricks to artificially reduce the mass of your transport or you boil the fabrics of space/time and create worm holes...

 

When we get a better picture of our universe and how matter is organized within its framework, I have no doubts we'll exploit it to its full potential. The same way birds exploited air density to travel from point a to b while some retards kept insisting that man made machines could never fly.

[stryper]

Why would an advanced civilization be interested in destroying us anyway?

 

Why does the scenario always involve that?

 

There was a recent primitive tribe discovered in the amazon. The Gov't of Brazil stated they are going to actively dissuade people from trying to contact them. Citing biological concerns well known with disease introduction.

 

So again why is the only scenario that of they are planning our destruction?

[REBOOT]

Why would an advanced civilization be interested in destroying us anyway?

 

Why does the scenario always involve that?

 

There was a recent primitive tribe discovered in the amazon. The Gov't of Brazil stated they are going to actively dissuade people from trying to contact them. Citing biological concerns well known with disease introduction.

 

So again why is the only scenario that of they are planning our destruction?

 

There's tons of scenarios possible lol, some beneficial to us and some not.

 

I'll give you one bad scenario where a Type 0 civilization needs a replacement home world:

 

We're about to lose our planet (sun is unstable and about to turn into a red giant), we have some crude technology available to escape our planet and travel to a nearby star system that happens to have a planet in the 'goldylocks' zone and could potentially replace our dying earth...

 

We build a space ark and launch with seeds and everything possible to set up a viable colony on that new planet. It takes 100 years to get there travelling near light speed. We get there and guess what ! we find stryper version II on the internet wondering about a destruction hypothesis LOL.

 

Sorry stryper version II.... we erm... need your planet. We gonna terraform and make it compatible with our biological constructs.... The end.

 

Hopefully during the voyage, some type 1 civilization can intercept that makeshift Noah's ark and perhaps build a replacement planet for them LOL.

 

.... 1950's alien destruction scenarios are hilarious

[Legion]

What if the Milky Way galaxy is already ruled by a type 3 civilization, with powers which would appear to us as magic?

 

Just a thought.

 

We'll make great pets.

[Ouroboros]

So again why is the only scenario that of they are planning our destruction?

Only if we're a threat, I think. Resources exist all around us in the galaxy, so I doubt it would be for that reason. Would they need it for the eco-sphere and populate the planet? Not likely if they are able to travel those distances in space, then they're likely to know how to "terraform" any dead planet. But, if we show ability to travel in space and even become a competitor, then we could be in trouble. So I think it's more likely they would start observing, not occupying. They would throw sticks into our evolution to stop us from evolving to that threat, but probably not destroy us. Or they might help us evolve to their level to make themselves safer.

[REBOOT]

What if the Milky Way galaxy is already ruled by a type 3 civilization, with powers which would appear to us as magic?

 

Just a thought.

 

We'll make great pets.

 

That's the kicker, that kind of hierarchy would somehow almost guarantee the relative safety of an entire galaxy. This would reasonably explain why an alien invasion hasn't occured.

 

One type 3 ruling above type 2's ruling type 1's who monitor type 0's. There's always a bigger fish.

 

 

Once we resolve the technical constraints of interstellar travel... Someone's going to hand us the galactic rules and regulation handbook. ROFL