Moderator Margee Posted December 8, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2011 We all know the scripture 'story' that describes love in the bible. We have friends, spouses, and family we are supposed to 'love'. So many times - we take on what the world tells us is right and wrong and many times, it takes forever to become the real you........ to drop the old christian doctrine and think for yourself. Stepping out of religion now gives us the chance to think about certain things in life differently... about how we REALLY feel. . Has your opinion changed much on how love is suppossed to be 'worked' since you deconverted? And if so.........What 'line' from 1 Corinthians 13:4 -13 would you change, that does not stand true for you anymore.....or would you change any of them? Do you think Corinthians is the best description of love? 4: Love is patient, love is kind. it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5: It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6: Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. 7: It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves. 8: Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9: For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10: but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11: When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12: For now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Love is without attachment or expectation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted December 9, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2011 Love is without attachment or expectation. How stryper? What do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Love is without attachment or expectation. In what universe? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I define love as willingly doing whatever it takes to look after someone, even if it costs you everything in the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 7 - Always trusts? I detect hyperbole here. Someone who always trusts is going to wind up poor and placed in an institution or half-way house. 8 - Love never fails? I don't think this is correct. Love can fail in the sense of love ceasing to be expressed toward others for whatever reason - anger, fear, the growth of hate. Love can fail in the sense that even though we do everything correct, the person or persons we love can respond in a way counter to the intent of that love. Love can fail because while we think we may be acting out of love, we may be deceiving ourselves and our primary motivator is not love. 10 - There is no perfection coming . Perfection is an abstract construct. It means nothing. There is only change, maturation and growth. Hopefully that will continue. This next one is irrelevant: 12: For now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. the first phrase about a mirror is accurate enough for metaphor. The "then" is based on the premise that we will see god. Since god doesn't exist, then that is an irrelevant statement. It's true that we "know" in part - in just about every category of knowing. But we will never know fully, just more fully if we let ourselves continue learning and growing. And "Fully known?" Nobody fully knows us. We don't fully know ourselves. We can only learn to open ourselves to others and to learn to know ourselves better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I like verses 4 through 7. Together they form a nice poem. I don't care for the rest of the chapter but vs. 4-7 may have been Paul's greatest work. He doesn't have to have been inspired by God. He doesn't even need to have been a good man. But just about anybody can come up with something worth quoting and for Paul that is it. Of course it's not realistic. Rather it's idealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Love is without attachment or expectation. How stryper? What do you mean by this? To explain a bit further, love is an emotion. As an emotion, it has no voice. Many times when we fall in love, we cannot voice why we love that person, you just do. This is because without a voice the emotion creates symbols of the person. It is with these symbols that attachment usually occurs. When this attachment occurs, it creates expectation on the others action that are interpreted as loving. People change. When the symbolic expectation are no longer being met and therefore causing the primary to think something is amiss, the primary can begin to feel the other "doesn't love me anymore". Anger results from the unfullfilled expectation. This can lead to a re-evaluation of the symbols, a dropping of the symbols all together, an end to the relationship, changes in the primary's behaivor to provoke a "loving" response, etc. If the relationship end, the cycle perhaps begins again. If it continues, then things can get better. However, it all depends on the choices of the parties involved. Learning to recognize the symbols as such and seeing the other without attachment or expectation does much for allowing growth in the relationship and acceptance of the changes that will inevitably result in individuals. We all know people who have had long marriages who hate each other but still stay in it. We all have had those teenage romances where when one thing was out of place the relationship ended. And we have all known people who have last a long time in a relationship regardless of marriage status and seem to be perpetually in love. As a disclaimer, I try to at the very least recognize the symbols of the other in whatever relationship it is. Letting go of those can be hard. Also its 1am here and I am tired. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Learning to recognize the symbols as such and seeing the other without attachment or expectation does much for allowing growth in the relationship and acceptance of the changes that will inevitably result in individuals. I agree. If both persons in a relationships choose to consistently see past emotions, behaviors, etc. and focus on the real person, then love remains strong, and in my experience the negatives actually change as a result. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 What is importance? How does it arise in the flow of experience? I seem to have lost the ability to express myself. I know what I want to say, but it cannot be spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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