Prestissimo Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 It seems I posted on a very bad day, when many posts were deleted because of a server crash. Luckily I made a backup of my text. So I repost my testimony. English is not my native language. I don't say this as an excuse for my writing, but because I might not be familiar with all the English christian jargon. As a result I probably am a little more descriptive about general terms. Now that I wrote it all down more and more side-stories come back to mind, there is much more than influenced me or hurt me than I wrote down. But then again, I suppose the story is already quite long. And as we all know by now: "text is the worst medium to spread truth" Hi everyone. I just discovered this website last week, and I'm so glad that I did! For some reason I lived with the illusion that I was one of the only christians that ever got out of their religion .. or at least the only person that still ponders about it. It's been 12 years ago that I managed to let go of the christian faith. Somehow I never went looking for other victims, I just wanted to live my life and try and help the people around me. I now realize that wasn't enough, because I still carry a lot of hatred with me regarding the christian religion. From time to time this hatred is triggered and lately it's so strong that in desperation I was looking for a place to ventilate it a bit. I came across this forum and reading a few testimonies on this websites already helped me a ton. I'm shocked how strong the religious pressure has been on some of you and I respect it so much how you managed to escape after being dragged so far in. Here is my story: I live in the Netherlands, and I was raised in a pentecostal family, together with two younger sisters. My father was raised a catholic, my mother pentecostal. My father never truly accepted the pentecostal ideas and was always in debate with everyone. Unfortunately this never led him out of christianity completely. I suppose it was good for me that he learned me it's a good thing to ask questions. At young age I turned out to be quite talented in music. I could play the piano extremely well for my age and had a perfect memory for remembering music. This talent lead me to my first doubts; as far as I remember. I don't know how old I was exactly but I was bothered with the gospel-music. Really bothered. I understood the structure of this music so well, that it bored me. I could perform every piece played in church from memory on the piano. I wasn't proud of it, it was no challenge! I had to practice Chopin, Mozart, Bach, now that was hard, but the gospel was just simplistic. I wondered why God wanted to hear simplistic music every Sunday. He inspired good composers to write beautiful and complex music why did he want to hear this gospel-stuff all the time? The answers I got weren't very satisfying. The music is holy, God shows himself through that music, they told me to listen more carefully. Although my dad understood me (he is a musician too), he told me my talent was unique and most people don't experience these depths in music. He told me the christians are just celebrating how happy they are with Christ and this music is what they understand, they can remember it, sing it, express it. I learned that day that God "tolerated" the crappy music, because his people just didn't know any better. What I didn't understand was why I never heard that "deeper layer". The music bothered me, I was always very glad it was over. People were stretching their arms and holding a hand in the air when they sang, closed their eyes. It creeped me out a little, why would they do that? This music is empty.. As young children we were just happy to play soccer before church started, and when my parents drank coffee afterwards, we could play for another 30 minutes or so. Church itself was just a thing I had to go through to be able to play some soccer, it wasn't too bad. But then a friend of my parents was in need. This friend started a church 1,5h drive away from home, and asked my father to play the piano there for a while, until he would find a pianist who lived close by. We went there for almost 2 years! Meaning we had to drive 3 hours of our Sundays, and my parents were always the last people to go home. That was a rather big time investment to play soccer! After a few months/years I learned that church was not about soccer, but it was to learn more about Jesus. Somehow I can't recall much of the early Sunday schooling. I remember we had that awful singing part and then they would guide us to another building where we would make stuff using paper, glue, I dunno, silly things. I only remember that I thought about heaven and hell a lot, so I guess they talked about that. At the age of 11 ( or 12?) we were old enough to attend the adult sermons. We had different people preaching each week and I noticed that not all the ministers were very smart. They would make comparisons to explain God, and I almost always found a flaw. One example I still remember was that the minister said "God is like a kite on a long line. If you let the line go long enough you can reach a point where you can no longer see your kite. But you know it's still there because you can feel it, that's how we can be sure God exists too. God works the same way." I didn't find it necessary he would try to proof God exists, but since he did, I wondered why he would make such a silly comparison. I told the minister he made a mistake. I told him that the true reason that convinced me the kite was real was because I would have held that kite in my hands, would have seen that kite go up, before it would be out of my vision. His answer was simple: we have seen God work so often, if we feel him that reminds us that God is still at work. I didn't argue with that but I felt it was flawed. The above example actually happened when I was a little older than 12 but it was one that I recall vividly and one that I questioned. I heard many bullshit comparisons.. I just accepted it because God was so powerful and great, you can't really compare him to anything on earth. In the Netherlands, a "christian" highschool is just a name. They aren't teaching the christian faith at all. Many people with atheist backgrounds would go there, simply because it was the closest school to their house, so I was in a class with many atheists. And very importantly, I had a lot of friends in my neighborhood that were not christians. I liked these less restricted people better than my christian friends. Some music (because of the texts) was forbidden, neither was I allowed to read books about supernatural beings, witches etc.. , I didn't understand that. God was supernatural himself! I talked to God, he was fine with me exploring things. I didn't see the harm. Well, people told me I was hearing Satan, not God. This frustrated me from time to time. Strangely enough my parents sometimes accidentally let me read books from the library that sometimes had 'occult' themes in it. Anything magical, like flying or mind controlling I found extremely interesting. When I recalled that Jesus walked on water I thought it should actually be possible to do these things if I just believed. But I couldn't shoot fireballs, nor fly, so I thought my faith wasn't strong enough.. I didn't understand though why my parents would think of these things as occult. Wasn't Jesus' walking on water just as occult? When I was 14 I had to go to church a 2nd day in the week. On Saturday evening! When I would usually hang out with my friends, I had to go to these teenage meetings. Including camps that swallowed my entire weekend! These teenagers were silly people. Not only did they act like some of the adults (the hand raising and stuff) they restricted themselves from listening to certain music, and they told of the visions God gave them (strange stuff, just as flawed as the stuff I heard the ministers say). Sometimes they would talk complete nonsense just like the ministers (talking in tongues?!). God certainly didn't give me that nonsense. One day a minister lectured us about Satan. He told us Satan was the BIGGEST deceiver EVER. He could pretend to be everything and everyone! He was very dangerous. Only through the holy spirit could we distinguish fake from truth. I was talking to God a lot, and I didn't understand that holy spirit thing. But the ministers told me of the trinity, and from what I understood in some way Jesus, God and the holy spirit were all one. So the holy spirit was just a form of God, the form that could speak to me.. Made sense.. So I could be certain I was seeing the truth. But that didn't explain why all the other people in my church talked so strange and had such flawed logic sometimes. Then it struck me: THEY ARE ALL POSSESSED WITH SATAN! It all made perfect sense. They were not talking to God, but they were all deceived. Satan was the master deceiver, he somehow managed to infiltrate the church. I learned that day that almost all the people around me were deceived. I was the only one that still knew how to speak with God, God was telling me I was surrounded with deceived people. All of them! I recall how the Sundays afterwards I felt the church was a lot darker. I imagined Satan being everywhere around me. In the silly dancing, the handraising, the stupid remarks of the minister. They were all EVIL! I didn't know how to express my feelings, I didn't want Satan to find out I figured out his secret. A few weeks later I realized there was a flaw in my thoughts. My parents were still loving and caring. And even though the people in church seemed retarded, what harm did they really do? Their innocents made me calm down a bit, but triggered the pondering question: "if these people get to hell because they are deceived, who will go to heaven?" Their intentions seem good enough, that wouldn't be fair. Since I could see they meant to do Good, then surely God wouldn't allow them to be send to hell? That day I decided that as long as a person lives by his own moral standards, God would see in that person's heart and will allow that person in heaven. I learned in school about physics and learned about space and the infinite universe. The concept of infinity had me intrigued. I couldn't accept infinity. That universe for example should have a limit. there should be like an impenetrable barrier, like a shell... but for picturing that barrier, I also pictured something should be beyond the barrier. I discussed this a lot with a good friend. Some day we were trying to figure out where hell and heaven are.. We figured that in infinity it's kind of odd to put a heaven and hell somewhere.. Well the reason was easy, so that hell and heaven could expand. Made sense at the time. But it left me wondering why we would go to a restricted world when we die, while there is so much space outside heaven and hell. Without realizing it then, I was questioning the bipolar worldview of end-time. You are born, live you life, then be judged to go to A or B. That wasn't very satisfying, I rather imagined I could go "everywhere".. the strangeness of this picture bothered me a lot. In church I heard in a sermon Jesus went Up to heaven.. up.. up.. that was weird too, what is up? Depending on the exact moment that he left earth, he could have left earth completely in the wrong direction. Did he change his path when he was in space? How long did he have to travel to reach heaven? For two more years I kept going to church and the questions built up fast. How can God judge a person, what are the exact criteria. Will God punish everyone around me for being deceived by Satan? Or maybe i was the one deceived and I would get punished. That didn't seem fair neither way. I was trying hard to believe, but I just didn't know WHAT to believe. Either me or they were wrong. I started doubting the voice in my head. Was it God or Satan? Or was it just me? Why does God allow Satan to exist if he is a loving God? Why would he let people burn for infinity if they make a wrong choice based on an impossible to make choice. That 'infinity' bothered me again. How can you feel pain for infinity, won't you get used to it at some point? Or will you just lose consciousness and dream? More and more questions, and I didn't like going to church anymore, they only confused me more. That crappy music, those silly sermons, they didn't have the answer. It was important that I would find God, and the teachings of the church were distracting me! I read the bible, I read of a God of War in the old testament, and how he loosened up a bit later on. That didn't make much sense.. An omniscient being was changing? Like a human? I had even more trouble with the idea that God was Learning. If he exists and has existed forever, outside of "time", how can he even think? Thinking is a progress, and a progress required time I learned in physics. So how can you progress outside of time? That's not possible. God can only "be" and "know". That idea was powerful to me. It is exactly what the bible said. God being omniscient and omnipresent, that's because he is. But he is clearly not thinking, that's not necessary. He already knows. Church confirmed that idea: yes, they would tell me, you got it figured out, God knows everything and is everywhere. I believed in God again, but I slowly disconnected the bible in the story. That can't be real, they are describing a linear God, that's not omniscient. God had emotional issues too, that doesn't make sense either. I was struggling to go to church and had a lot of arguments with my parents about not going to church. I had no choice. I already managed to convince my parents to go less to these Saturday-night meetings. Until one day there was this camp-thing again. I didn't want to go, I was furious. I explained my parents all my thoughts and they were supportive and still they wanted me to go! I didn't understand my parents. I had no choice, I went. People noticed my fury and tried to calm me. Actually they were quite nice. I heard a minister speak and I liked the guy, he seemed honest.. the entire camp had actually a positive vibe to it. I started singing (I always refrained from singing that crap). At some point I noticed my one hand raised. It felt good. I went home and felt a little changed. I talked to this with my mother and she explained that I felt God that day. Like lightning I awoke the day after more furious than before that camp. This circus had just mind-controlled me! Somehow in a weak moment these people managed to get me to become like them, even though it was all a fraud. The biblical God can't exist, Satan can't be real. What was I thinking?! I felt so stupid for falling into that trap. I refused to go to church since that day (age 16). I got in a fight with my parents. They grounded me, didn't allow me to see my friends anymore, they tried everything. Members of my family trying their best to convince me, and all I saw were dump people, that fell in a trap. I never changed my mind and there attempts to get through to me strengthened me. Eventually my parents gave up. Luckily at that time there was internet, I could look for everything I wanted to know about. I learned about many different worldviews, science and over time I accepted my truth was truth, The biblical God can't exist. Since nothing can't be "created" outside of time (creating is also a process), either nothing has always been, or everything has always been. Since we see a world around us and I think to exist, I accepted "everything that is has always been". If that "all" has a mind we call God, then I'm a part of that same mind. After all, the universe started in a singular point, we all come from the same source. I left the house as soon as possible, age 17, to study music. Breaking up with church was the best thing I ever did. I still heard that voice in my head. I didn't care if it was me or God, it gave me comfort to talk to myself/him. And I received fortune upon fortune since that day. To sum up a view things that happened since: I fell seriously in love for the first time (although that didn't work out in the end), I found a nice job, build up stronger relationships with my friends, I was happy. When I went to study in another town the day I was looking for an apartment I picked up a conversation where a guy was looking for someone to take over his student apartment. I turned around and told him I heard his question and that I was looking for one. That evening I got the apartment. It turned out to be one of the most wanted apartments in my town! I was a bit lonely after a while and was looking for a girlfriend. The day I realized I was lonely I met a girl in the local bar. A musician, like myself. We connected so well, I never experienced that before, but I was not in love right away. That took a few months before I realized that. We're still together for almost 10 years now and I never met anyone as wonderful as she is. When I needed a piano, my teacher give me his second grand piano for free(!), when I wanted to write for orchestra i won an competition allowing me to write for such an orchestra. I'm very successful in my profession as a music composer. My success and luck helped me see there was no angry God that was trying his best to get in my way. Quite the opposite, if there is a God he has been very supportive since the day I left my church!! "He" couldn't have given me a better confirmation that I did the right thing. I do need to address that hatred I mentioned earlier. I have an aunt who is a missionary. Thank god did she move to the U.S. when I was around 8 years old, so she couldn't influence my parents too much. From time to time she would visit the Netherlands though and judge my parents and me. When I broke free of the church my mother didn't dare tell my aunt I left church so she said I was just a little in doubt. This made me furious, I knew very well what i was doing and I didn't feel I was taken seriously by my mother. She cries if we talk about this for too long, so even today we haven't spoken about this enough I feel. Every time my aunt is back I am reminded of the christian days. She has three children that I loved when I was younger but they are completely ruined; they are just as retarded as the people in my old church, more so even! If only they were given the same tools and learned how to think for themselves.. Well anyway, my aunt triggers the anger I still feel, activating anti-missionary mode. I hurt people's feelings some times for being insensitive about their believe. I can't help but feel they are retarded. Brainwashed to a point where it is no use to reason with them. I am harsh to the people that show no change, though I'm kind to the people that I feel have a chance to "awake". Especially people that live in fear; those I like to help. Hell doesn't exist, it makes me sad people fall for it and have a less rich live because of that fear. There are family gatherings where I am confronted with the stupidity I detest, and I'm not honest to them, I just act like I don't have much of an opinion about their religion. When I'm confronted with this for too long I feel the same anger I had when I was young. I still don't know how to get rid of it. I feel an urge to kick their heads in to make them understand. I never understood blind faith, I wasn't drilled enough I guess. I helped my youngest sister deconvert and my oldest sister I feel is opening up slowly. My parents left their church for not feeling at home there anymore for their idea’s are changing slowly. For my mother this is hard, but she was raised a lot more strict than my father. I hope I show them the light one day. I believe that everyone has the right to know the truth. And if I can help people see the light, I’m very much willing to assist them on their journey. Thanks for reading my story. 2
Blue elephant Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Hi Prestissimo Welcome to Ex-C. I remember reading your ex-timony, but it must have been just before the forum crash. Hope you enjoy fishing around the forums. Lovely, supportive people here to make you feel comfortable in your new life.
Prestissimo Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 Thanks Blue elephant. Unfortunately the server crash also meant loss of all the nice responses. And my word of thanks to that Let me just write it again: "thank you all for the very warm welcome, I really appreciate it!"
coldturkey Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Amen brother. Your journey out of the "mind-cage" was exciting to read, for all the similarities to my own story. This feeling of truly being able to empathize with someone who has also deconverted is amazing. Thank-you.
blackpudd1n Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Hi Prestissimo, I didn't get a chance to read your story before the server crashed, so I'm really glad you put it up again. I really enjoyed reading about your journey. I am a former pentecostal myself, and I can appreciate how awful those gospel songs must have sounded to your musically-gifted ears. I've got to say, I'm a bit jealous of your talent, too. I played the piano for years, and loved it. But I had two things working against me: I was born half-deaf in both ears, so I could never hear a piece of music and play it, I always had to read it in order to play, and I have tiny hands. It never helped, either, that my favourite piece was Eric Satie's Gymnopaedie (the second movment, I think, from memory). I'd just practice until my hands were sore, but doing what I wanted them to do. That being said, though, it wasn't until I was in my late teens that I realised I had tiny hands compared to most paino players. My first piano teacher, when I was a little child, had only one hand and a stump, and could play the piano, organ, and pipe organ, so it just never occured to me that I had little hands- I had two hands! Living in a one bedroom apartment, I don't have the room for a piano at this stage, and I don't know when I will again. I've stopped bothering telling people that I miss playing, because they always turn around and say, "why not get a keyboard?!" And I just look at them, and say, "a keyboard doesn't have a voice box." Every piano is unique. You just don't feel the music with a keyboard the same way you do with a piano. Not to mention all the years I spent learning technique, hand posture, etc. Then they tell me, "but they have keyboards with weighted keys now!" And I say once more, "what about the damn voicebox?!" Ugh. I get the anger, too. My sister is still in the christian mind-set, and it's so annoying. Along with her husband, and her husband's family. I agree with you, Christianity does make people stupid. Happened to me, too. I only fully deconverted a few months ago, though I struggled to retain my faith for years. There came a point where I just couldn't do it anymore. Everything just "clicked" inside my head one weekend, and that was the end of it. No more Jesus, no more God, no more Heaven, Hell, or Satan. There was just nothing to believe anymore. I'd learned too much. It's great to have you here, hope to see you around, mate Pudd
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Appreciate your story, Prestissimo, and glad to see you on here.
marmot Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Thanks for posting again! I enjoyed read it as well. I posted my ex-testimonial as well...and I didn't save it. I will probably repost it soon.
blackpudd1n Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Thanks for posting again! I enjoyed read it as well. I posted my ex-testimonial as well...and I didn't save it. I will probably repost it soon. Please do, Marmot. And welcome to ex-C
badpuppy Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! I really enjoyed reading your story. I understand your frustration at dealing with fundamentalists. It's difficult because they are SO sure they have the "one truth" and you are wrong and going to hell, but really their beliefs are completely absurd. And then they'll turn it around on you and say YOU are the one who is "arrogant" and a "know-it-all", even when you admit you only have a piece of truth... not the whole thing. It's irritating. The only way I can truly cope with this is to just understand that fundamentalists are like five year olds. They are children that can't grow up and learn to reason because they've been emotionally stunted and stuck at a certain point. It's easier to feel pity than anger.
Prestissimo Posted January 16, 2012 Author Posted January 16, 2012 Hi Prestissimo, I didn't get a chance to read your story before the server crashed, so I'm really glad you put it up again. I really enjoyed reading about your journey. I am a former pentecostal myself, and I can appreciate how awful those gospel songs must have sounded to your musically-gifted ears. I've got to say, I'm a bit jealous of your talent, too. I played the piano for years, and loved it. But I had two things working against me: I was born half-deaf in both ears, so I could never hear a piece of music and play it, I always had to read it in order to play, and I have tiny hands. It never helped, either, that my favourite piece was Eric Satie's Gymnopaedie (the second movment, I think, from memory). I'd just practice until my hands were sore, but doing what I wanted them to do. That being said, though, it wasn't until I was in my late teens that I realised I had tiny hands compared to most paino players. My first piano teacher, when I was a little child, had only one hand and a stump, and could play the piano, organ, and pipe organ, so it just never occured to me that I had little hands- I had two hands! Living in a one bedroom apartment, I don't have the room for a piano at this stage, and I don't know when I will again. I've stopped bothering telling people that I miss playing, because they always turn around and say, "why not get a keyboard?!" And I just look at them, and say, "a keyboard doesn't have a voice box." Every piano is unique. You just don't feel the music with a keyboard the same way you do with a piano. Not to mention all the years I spent learning technique, hand posture, etc. Then they tell me, "but they have keyboards with weighted keys now!" And I say once more, "what about the damn voicebox?!" Ugh. I get the anger, too. My sister is still in the christian mind-set, and it's so annoying. Along with her husband, and her husband's family. I agree with you, Christianity does make people stupid. Happened to me, too. I only fully deconverted a few months ago, though I struggled to retain my faith for years. There came a point where I just couldn't do it anymore. Everything just "clicked" inside my head one weekend, and that was the end of it. No more Jesus, no more God, no more Heaven, Hell, or Satan. There was just nothing to believe anymore. I'd learned too much. It's great to have you here, hope to see you around, mate Pudd Hi Pudd, thank you for your kind words. Sorry to read that you are limited in your ways to play the piano. When you write 'tiny hands', what size are we talking? My hands aren't very large for the piano either, I can grab a barely stretch to a ninth-interval on the piano, though most pianist can stretch to tenth; or even do it with ease. I can very much relate to the whole piano vs keyboard thing. A true piano, especially a grand, has its own voice and attitude, you can't communicate in the same way with a keyboard. For my work I use one daily though, a Kawai mp5 stage piano. It's a handy tool to write music on a computer. But to me it's a tool, not an instrument. About the stupidity, it's what I call the mind-cage. I don't think the people are really stupid, but just allowed themselves to be retarded ("delayed or held back in terms of progress & development") although that makes it more voluntary than it is. It's the hardest for people that have been raised like this, because you are taught that reason & logic is wrong. At least when it comes to religion. The result is that you have some very smart people, yet with a blind spot for religion. That part of their brain just doesn't accept logic, and it's quite a challenge to break through that brick wall.
ConureDelSol Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Believe me when I say that I understand the anger and frustration of dealing with Christian family and friends. Even if you present a reasonable argument that has no flaws at all, they still refuse to hear it. I have a hard time not insulting them and insulting their intelligence. In my case, I have a special angry place in my heart for my father who has this tendency to act as though I don't have the intellectual ability to make decisions because I didn't study the Bible like he did. That's what you get when you have an apologist for a father who has a serious issue with pride.
badpuppy Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Believe me when I say that I understand the anger and frustration of dealing with Christian family and friends. Even if you present a reasonable argument that has no flaws at all, they still refuse to hear it. I have a hard time not insulting them and insulting their intelligence. In my case, I have a special angry place in my heart for my father who has this tendency to act as though I don't have the intellectual ability to make decisions because I didn't study the Bible like he did. That's what you get when you have an apologist for a father who has a serious issue with pride. Ugh. Yes, you can't point any of it out to them. They will just come back with "The devil has deceived you". THey may as well be saying: "Our Reptillian Overlords are controlling your brain through the mass media." Because that's what I hear when they tell me that. I find it offensive that they have NEVER once seriously questioned their faith. THey have blindly accepted what they were raised with as truth and choose to limit their exposure to alternate viewpoints and the people who hold them. Anytime they DID question, their "search for truth" went no further than Christian books, Christian leaders, their bible, and prayer. Meanwhile I actually DID step outside my faith in order to question my faith. I looked into many other religions... honestly from THOSE religion's perspectives... not a Christian book with a list of what other religions believe and why they are wrong according to the bible. I studied science. I looked at as much information as I could get ahold of and spoke directly with people who held those opposing worldviews. The result was... I couldn't remain a Christian without being a conspiracy theorist. I find conspiracy theories mentally unhealthy, so I left. Meanwhile, people who have never taken those hard steps and have NO clue what they are talking about... have remained in their limited shoebox and are trying to tell me the entirety of reality exists inside their shoebox. No, the entirety of THEIR reality exists inside their shoebox. Actual reality is a bit bigger.
Prestissimo Posted January 16, 2012 Author Posted January 16, 2012 Meanwhile, people who have never taken those hard steps and have NO clue what they are talking about... have remained in their limited shoebox and are trying to tell me the entirety of reality exists inside their shoebox. No, the entirety of THEIR reality exists inside their shoebox. Actual reality is a bit bigger. Amen. I also HATE the christian language. They have their own jargon which really works on my nerves. I can't think of anything in English, I suppose it doesn't make too much sense to try and translate it from dutch, but I hope you understand what I mean. I was complaining about the music, don't get me started on the lyrics
badpuppy Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Meanwhile, people who have never taken those hard steps and have NO clue what they are talking about... have remained in their limited shoebox and are trying to tell me the entirety of reality exists inside their shoebox. No, the entirety of THEIR reality exists inside their shoebox. Actual reality is a bit bigger. Amen. I also HATE the christian language. They have their own jargon which really works on my nerves. I can't think of anything in English, I suppose it doesn't make too much sense to try and translate it from dutch, but I hope you understand what I mean. I was complaining about the music, don't get me started on the lyrics I get exactly what you mean. Christians have their own definitions for words that are at odds with how most people out in the regular world define those words. Christian music always seemed so dorky to me. And the lyrics seethed with repressed sexuality.
Positivist Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Hi Prestissimo! When I heard about the server crash, I thought specifically of your posting and how it would be lost. I am so glad you had it saved!! My family had a monopoly on the church music for the first 16 years of my life, as my dad was the church organist. He only liked/played the "good" hymns. All musical hell broke loose when I started attending a local charismatic church. The music was atrocious and insipid. My family is from Friesland and later, Putten (during the war). Great to have you on Ex-C, and thanks for posting again!!! You were lost but now you're found!
Prestissimo Posted January 18, 2012 Author Posted January 18, 2012 Thank you positivist. I think I also read your responds before the crash. Actually it also ruined my appetite for some music. For example I had anything that reminds me of gospel. For dutch examples, I literally feel sick and angered hearing "Acda en de Munnik", "de Kast', "Bløf". I suppose that's part of the damage I got from being raised like this :S
marmot Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Thank you positivist. I think I also read your responds before the crash. Actually it also ruined my appetite for some music. For example I had anything that reminds me of gospel. For dutch examples, I literally feel sick and angered hearing "Acda en de Munnik", "de Kast', "Bløf". I suppose that's part of the damage I got from being raised like this :S That's really sad! Music is a beautiful thing. It's weird...I still sing Christian music at school during chapel, and I actually enjoy it. I just really love to sing. I don't really think about the words. Sure, that makes me a big phony but church was where I learned to love to sing and I guess that part of me really hasn't died. That said, when I stop and think of the words it gets a little creepy (talking about how wonderful it is that a man was nailed to a cross, so thankful that his father sent him to his death, asking to be washed in blood etc.).
Prestissimo Posted January 19, 2012 Author Posted January 19, 2012 @marmot Well it's ok, I still love music. It's my fulltime job after all. It's just certain music that triggers this emotion. Besides, most people have a strong preference for one style of music over the other. In that sense I think I'm quite broad still. I write Jazz, classical, film, I seek the borders between abstract/concrete. I can enjoy heavy metal from time to time, even hardcore. While I love rachmaninoff , scriabin and chopin. I just can't bare too much mozart and Haydn (although they do have some brilliant work, just not most of it) too much as a result, and dislike new-age stuff, and simple popmusic, but that's easily avoided :-) It's mostly singer-songwriters I detest. But that isn't a rule either. I know some very good songwriters too. It all helped me define my identity as a composer, resulting in a strong signature in my music, because I am judgmental about certain sounds, progressions etc. So in a way I can change this into something positive. Because I am so strongly opinionated on the subject, I'm very critical.
LearnedHag Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for posting your story of freedom; I appreciate not having the thought police in my head too; and can relate to the anger toward your religious family members. I'm pretty new here and will continue to look around for how others deal with this (my pentecostal family think I'm demon possessed~~~).... I mean, really, how do you have an intelligent interaction with someone that thinks that of you??? You're fortunate to have knowledge, and talent, of the language of music in your life. I think churches often use the simplistic formula music to lull people into a certain state of mind-numbness.
bronxo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 A fellow Dutchman! We spoke for a bit in chat. Welcome, welcome!
Prestissimo Posted January 20, 2012 Author Posted January 20, 2012 Thanks for posting your story of freedom; I appreciate not having the thought police in my head too; and can relate to the anger toward your religious family members. I'm pretty new here and will continue to look around for how others deal with this (my pentecostal family think I'm demon possessed~~~).... I mean, really, how do you have an intelligent interaction with someone that thinks that of you??? You're fortunate to have knowledge, and talent, of the language of music in your life. I think churches often use the simplistic formula music to lull people into a certain state of mind-numbness. Hie LearnedHag, my respect and best of luck to you. Stay strong, don't try to reason, like you said they aren't reasonable. All you can do is fight for respect. You can't help them change if they don't respect you, and then you are on your own. Be yourself. Be angry when you are, but be careful not to become bitter. Enjoy your new perspective and freedom, live to the fullest. Let your familiy see who you are. Your moral can eventually convince them you might not be possessed.. and if they doubt about your demon, who knows how far they are willing to see how deep the rabbit-hole really is.
badpuppy Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks for posting your story of freedom; I appreciate not having the thought police in my head too; and can relate to the anger toward your religious family members. I'm pretty new here and will continue to look around for how others deal with this (my pentecostal family think I'm demon possessed~~~).... I mean, really, how do you have an intelligent interaction with someone that thinks that of you??? You're fortunate to have knowledge, and talent, of the language of music in your life. I think churches often use the simplistic formula music to lull people into a certain state of mind-numbness. I have the same issue with pentecostal family only they phrase it more nicely: "The devil has led you astray." They are still unable to explain to me how I can produce the genuine fruits of the spirit (love, peace, etc. etc.) if there is no spirit of "God" living within me. (According to their theology.) They can't explain how the devil or any "evil entity" could be capable of producing such a thing... even for the purposes of deception. They live by what I call the Devil Conspiracy Theory.
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