London Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Who knew that fruit could be so controversal. 2
Thumbelina Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Thumbelina said: Q. When was Judaism ever a missionary religion? A. It was supposed to be but they did not fulfill the task, they kept apostatizing and stoning God's messengers who were sent to restore them. As a result, they kept on going into captivity and eventually they decided that they will save themselves by being exclusive and keeping the letter of the law. Their intentions were good but they were misguided. Centauri said: Keeping the letter of the law is exactly what God told them to do. Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Christianity, Paul in particular, did exactly what God told his people not to do. Thumbelina: Centauri, Paul did NOT add or take away anything from the law. The NT is the divinely inspired commentary on the OT! Paul was amazing in preaching and teaching the gospel (good news). Jesus AND Paul taught that if one has the right SPIRIT about the law then one will keep the letter of the law. The commandments are about loving God 1st and then loving ones fellow man. If one loves God and want to obey Him then one will want to love and care for their fellow man; one won't be angry if someone is healed on Sabbath, one will be glad for the person. Jesus AND Paul did NOT promote antinomianism, they both wanted God's people to have a balanced understanding between law AND grace. Thumbelina said: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isa 49:6 Centauri said: Ironically, you've just supported Israel as being the servant in Isa 53, and not Jesus. Thumbelina: Yup, Jesus is Israel. Israel means over comer. God Himself had to come to do what man failed to do. Thumbelina said: 1Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon you. 2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon you, and his glory shall be seen upon you. 3And the Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising. Isa 60:1-4 Centauri said: This is another passage that refutes Jesus being the light. The nations of the world will look to a restored Israel for knowledge about God, not Jesus. Thumbelina said: You know that Israel was to be a light to the gentiles by loving God and thereby being obedient to Him. They failed. Centauri said: The messianic era hasn't started yet, so you cannot claim failure. And by claiming failure, you discredit the Hebrew God, who doesn't break his promises. Jer 33:14-16 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. In your world, he lied to Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah. Thumbelina: What Messianic Era? Jesus has been here, done it and is interceding for us, hence "The LORD our righteousness". God CANNOT lie.. Surely you know that an omniscient, omnipotent God calls things that are not as if they already existed. There is NOTHING that is too hard for God. Prophecy is fulfilling just as the bible said it would. Jesus will eventually return and take His children with Him. Thumbelina said: Jesus is real Israel because He overcame where they failed. My point is that God wanted Israel to be a beacon for the gentiles and it is stated in the OT. Centauri said: Jesus never fulfilled the basic job requirements of a king messiah. He never sat on the throne, never ushered in the messianic era of peace and prosperity, and never guided the people into great compliance with the law. Jesus overcame nothing, being in fact an illegal sacrifice according to the very law Christinaity claims he "fulfilled". There is nothing in the new covenant, as defined by God in Jer 31, that says anything about faith in a human sacrifice replacing God's law or the plan to infuse that law into the hearts of the people. God's promise to elevate Israel is unbreakable and the arrival of an actual king (not an imposter) will begin that process. Your claim that "Jesus is the real Israel" is a load of manure. Thumbelina: Centauri, like the Jews in the historical texts, you are being TOO earthly and literal. Life is MORE than this bloody, sin filled planet, this planet WILL be destroyed! Jesus was/is the messiah, He brought peace, the peace that passes understanding, to His disciples, His disciples are prosperous/rich . Jesus did fulfill the law; He brought it into fruition and MAGNIFIED it in spirit AND in truth. God's commandments which espouses the principles of love, are everlasting. Killing was NOT God's ORIGINAL and OPTIMAL plan, right? Killing will NOT be perpetual. The sacrifices were temporary.They were foreshadows of what God Himself will do for man. This past weekend at church the Pastor preached on the gospel in Nehemiah and I must say it was fascinating, I did not even feel sleepy for I was taking a lot of notes.Have you ever looked at Nehemiah 3? What do the Jews believe the symbolism in that chapter represent? Centauri, I swear the NT promotes obedience to God's commandments too. Look at the acted parable with the woman who had the issue of blood. The woman represents the church, she was bleeding continually which represented sin and therefore separation from her husband (God/Christ). She had faith and she bent down (in humility) and touched the hem of Jesus' garment (Jesus is our high priest). You know that the priests in the OT had to have a tassel of blue at the hem of their garments, right? Blue represents law. MANY people were touching Jesus but they did not humble themselves and hold on to the hem of His garment by faith like that woman ( church) did. The lady was healed because she was willing to hang on to God's law. Faith/trust leads one to OBEY God's commandments. A lot of people want God and the perks He offers but they do not want to obey His commandments: And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. Isa 4:1 In prophecy women are symbolic for churches. Bread represents doctrines, apparel represents character or righteousness. The bible in BOTH testaments teaches righteousness by faith. Don't forget, true faith leads to OBEDIENCE so I am NOT disputing that.
Thumbelina Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 "Your claim that "Jesus is the real Israel" is a load of manure." Foxy agrees with this opinion. What Thumbi said was just stupid. Eh, you're a surface reader. Methinks you had more than Tequila, you had tons of Babylonian wine and now you don't know which way is up (spiritually speaking)
Thumbelina Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 God did not place toddlers in the garden. When I was a child, maybe 6, 7 or 8 I went outside and there was a stranger out there exposing himself. When I saw that I ran to my mama. I didn't say, "let me investigate". Eve had WARNING -- my parents did not even have the "talk" with me but I knew it wasn't right and I ran --she should've run to God! She wanted to be God and be self sufficient. God is gracious so He gave them probation. A 6,7, or 8 year old isn't a toddler. A toddler is ages 1-3. Also, you knew right from wrong. Adam and Eve did not. Without that sense of right or wrong, you wouldn't have thought anything of the stranger exposing himself to you. Warnings have no impact on people who can't rationalize their merit. The more I think about this story, the dumber God as a character seems to get. I NEVER said that a 6, 7 or 8 year old was a toddler. God gave us consciences. I am sure Eve had one too. Someone did an experiment with babies and they had puppets acting out certain roles and one puppet was bullying another puppet and the babies had empathy for the puppet that was bullied and beaten (Agi, knows about this) and they recoiled from the bully. So babies do have a sense of right and wrong. As I said, Eve should have said, 'God, what's going on here?'
Thumbelina Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Who knew that fruit could be so controversal. You should know Mr. vegetarian
Prestissimo Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 "Your claim that "Jesus is the real Israel" is a load of manure." Foxy agrees with this opinion. What Thumbi said was just stupid. Eh, you're a surface reader. Methinks you had more than Tequila, you had tons of Babylonian wine and now you don't know which way is up (spiritually speaking) How else would one read the bible ? ;-)
Thumbelina Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 "Your claim that "Jesus is the real Israel" is a load of manure." Foxy agrees with this opinion. What Thumbi said was just stupid. Eh, you're a surface reader. Methinks you had more than Tequila, you had tons of Babylonian wine and now you don't know which way is up (spiritually speaking) How else would one read the bible ? ;-) Hi, what's up? God wants His people to be sober and vigilant so they can detect the wiles of the devil. One needs the HS to understand the deep things, you know.
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 As I said, Eve should have said, 'God, what's going on here?' That's just stupid.
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 7, 2012 Super Moderator Posted February 7, 2012 I think it's about time to insert a "herp" or perhaps a "derp" into this miserable thread. God hates figs - end of story. Love you, Thumby - thanks for the naughty dreams! 3
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 When I bait the line with stupid, sometimes the stupid fish bite. 1
Thumbelina Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I think it's about time to insert a "herp" or perhaps a "derp" into this miserable thread. God hates figs - end of story. Love you, Thumby - thanks for the naughty dreams! I don't know what you you are talking about, were you sharing Methoxy's wine? You know I love you too (though I am sure you're being like that House), God commanded me to, plus I seem to like Rochester types like you, bdp and Par. Maybe I see Godly potential in you guys? lol.
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 It's interesting which stories apologists are willing to debate. Figs? Sure. Original sin? Yes. Moses sticking his finger in Jehovah's butthole? Not so much. 2
agnosticator Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 God CANNOT lie.. OOPS! Matthew 10:23 New International Version (NIV) 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:33-34 New International Version (NIV) 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. MATT 16:27, 28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” ALSO MARK 9:, and there's more, but I didn't complete my search. These are enough lies for one day. 2
agnosticator Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 God gave us consciences. I am sure Eve had one too. Someone did an experiment with babies and they had puppets acting out certain roles and one puppet was bullying another puppet and the babies had empathy for the puppet that was bullied and beaten (Agi, knows about this) and they recoiled from the bully. So babies do have a sense of right and wrong. As I said, Eve should have said, 'God, what's going on here?' GENESIS 3 22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” She had no ethical judgement or awareness (conscience). That would come after the Fall. Sorry!
mymistake Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 This myth was created to explain the questions people had in the bronze age. They wanted to know why we were cursed to suffer so much during child birth. Why is farming so hard? Why do we wear clothes? Why do husbands and wives fight so much? Why do humans fear and hate snakes? Why do men subjugate women? Why are humans mortal? These are the types of questions the myth was created to answer. That is why it doesn't work when people like Thumby try to stretch it into a deeper meaning.
Dagan Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 When was Judaism ever a missionary religion? They didn't want converts. So the idea that the fig tree being cursed is a symbol of how God was no longer going to use the Jewish nation to take the gospel to the world is completely baseless and out of historical and religious context. They had a very successful campaign under Joshua to evangelize the promised land. Lots of people killed to make sure God took over. Personally, I don't think the story represents anything metaphorical. I think Jesus knew that the tree would quickly wither by the time they passed it again because of the season. If it didn't even have those early buds, called taqsh in Arabic, the tree was probably dying. His "curse" was intended to fool his disciples into thinking he was powerful and to make his lesson about faith memorable, and his gullible, credulous disciples believed it was a miracle. I think he was upset over Eve putting on a fig leaf when she was nekkid. He obviously supports porn and is against censoring. Also fine explanations
Dagan Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 God CANNOT lie.. OOPS! Matthew 10:23 New International Version (NIV) 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:33-34 New International Version (NIV) 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. MATT 16:27, 28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” ALSO MARK 9:, and there's more, but I didn't complete my search. These are enough lies for one day. You're doing it wrong! Those verses were meant to be read in a SPIRITUAL sense. Jesus was using this as a metaphor for his premature ejaculation problem. 1
centauri Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Q. When was Judaism ever a missionary religion? A. It was supposed to be but they did not fulfill the task, they kept apostatizing and stoning God's messengers who were sent to restore them. As a result, they kept on going into captivity and eventually they decided that they will save themselves by being exclusive and keeping the letter of the law. Their intentions were good but they were misguided. Centauri said: Keeping the letter of the law is exactly what God told them to do. Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Christianity, Paul in particular, did exactly what God told his people not to do. Thumbelina: Centauri, Paul did NOT add or take away anything from the law. The NT is the divinely inspired commentary on the OT! Paul was amazing in preaching and teaching the gospel (good news). An amazing apostate. Paul undermined the dietary law, the law on circumcision, the sabbath day, promoted faith in an invalid human sacrifice as substituting for obedience to the law, and claimed that a king messiah would eliminate the need to be subject to the law. Jesus AND Paul taught that if one has the right SPIRIT about the law then one will keep the letter of the law. Is eating pork keeping the letter of the law? Thumbelina said: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isa 49:6 Centauri said: Ironically, you've just supported Israel as being the servant in Isa 53, and not Jesus. Thumbelina: Yup, Jesus is Israel. Israel means over comer. God Himself had to come to do what man failed to do. Jesus isn't Israel. Jesus didn't overcome anything, failing to perform the requirements of an expected king. Israel is God's "firstborn" son, not Jesus. Thumbelina said: 1Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon you. 2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon you, and his glory shall be seen upon you. 3And the Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising. Isa 60:1-4 Centauri said: This is another passage that refutes Jesus being the light. The nations of the world will look to a restored Israel for knowledge about God, not Jesus. Thumbelina said: You know that Israel was to be a light to the gentiles by loving God and thereby being obedient to Him. They failed. Centauri said: The messianic era hasn't started yet, so you cannot claim failure. And by claiming failure, you discredit the Hebrew God, who doesn't break his promises. Jer 33:14-16 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. In your world, he lied to Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah. Thumbelina: What Messianic Era? Jesus has been here, done it and is interceding for us, hence "The LORD our righteousness". God CANNOT lie.. Jesus didn't perform any of the job requirements of a king messiah. Prophecy is fulfilling just as the bible said it would. Jesus will eventually return and take His children with Him. There is nothing in Jeremiah that says a king messiah would need two trips, separated by thousands of years, to accomplish what he was supposed to do the first time. The second coming is the Christian rationailzation of a messianic failure. Thumbelina said: Jesus is real Israel because He overcame where they failed. My point is that God wanted Israel to be a beacon for the gentiles and it is stated in the OT. Centauri said: Jesus never fulfilled the basic job requirements of a king messiah. He never sat on the throne, never ushered in the messianic era of peace and prosperity, and never guided the people into great compliance with the law. Jesus overcame nothing, being in fact an illegal sacrifice according to the very law Christinaity claims he "fulfilled". There is nothing in the new covenant, as defined by God in Jer 31, that says anything about faith in a human sacrifice replacing God's law or the plan to infuse that law into the hearts of the people. God's promise to elevate Israel is unbreakable and the arrival of an actual king (not an imposter) will begin that process. Your claim that "Jesus is the real Israel" is a load of manure. Thumbelina: Jesus did fulfill the law; He brought it into fruition and MAGNIFIED it in spirit AND in truth. You don't fulfill the law by undermining it, nor do you fulfill job requirements by wishful thinking. Such is the case with Jesus and Christian claims that ignore the teachings of the Old Testament. The sacrifices were temporary.They were foreshadows of what God Himself will do for man. Sacrifices will be conducted in the messianic era per Jeremiah. They are not temporary. 2
Thumbelina Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 God CANNOT lie.. OOPS! Matthew 10:23 New International Version (NIV) 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Thumbelina: You would do well to learn how to compare scripture with scripture in order to let the bible interpret itself you know. Also, it won't hurt to take a look at a few commentaries that explains the texts: http://bible.cc/matthew/10-23.htm Jesus has yet to come in His glory John 14:1-3. AGAIN, you are being too LITERAL and NOT spiritual. In Jesus' time Israel was not used to describe a political territory, it was referring to people ( Mt. 8:10; Luke 2:34; John 3:10; Acts 2:22. )The Jews failed to take the gospel to the world so spiritual Israel ( Rom 2:28; Gal 3:28; Rom 9:6; 1 Corinth10: 1-5 ) now has that responsibility. God's sheep will understand what the texts mean. Matthew 24:33-34 New International Version (NIV) 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. MATT 16:27, 28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Thumbelina: You know Agi, text without context is a pretext! Trying to understand scripture without the HS is like spinning a top in thick gooey mud and I wish atheists will see that. Those texts in Matt 16 were referring to the transfiguration, if you compare scripture with scripture you will see that. Some of Jesus' disciples did see Jesus come into His Kingdom when He was transfigured before them! You do not understand the circumstances around Jesus' statements. I don't think you care but I'll write about it anyway. Just last night I was looking at a show about the stages of Israel's history. The theologian showed how Israel kept rebelling. Throughout history Israel kept on repeating the same sins over and over again. God sent messenger after messenger to them but they kept on rejecting the messages. They kept on trusting in themselves AND salvation by ritualistic WORKS! Alas, some are still doing that today; they can't see that ALL men were/are saved by grace through faith. God came and judged Israel in the OT, the glory of God departed from them; they had filled their cup of iniquity. When God judges in the bible His glory comes from the North and lingers over the Mount on the East. When God judged Israel, He leaves them desolate (2 Chron 36:17-21). God promised Abraham that the nations of the earth will be blessed because of Him so God always sought to restore Israel; He gave them probationary periods. Previously God had let them go into captivity to teach them a lesson ( they were disobedient and self sufficient). But lo and behold they rebelled AGAIN. God came Himself, He became God incarnate in order to get up close and personal with them and they did the SAME thing to Him. Just as in the OT, Jesus had to carry out judgment (Matt 21:18-19 ; Matt 21: 33-43 ; Matt 22:1-14 ) Jesus pronounces judgment in Matt 23:29-33; the rebellious leaders were filling up their cups of iniquity vs 22 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt." After Jesus' death the Jews still had 31/2 years probation: Matt 23:34-36 "34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." After Jesus died the disciples went to the Jews and were persecuted then the end of the Hebrew Theocracy came. As Jesus was pronouncing judgment on Jerusalem, He went to the same place that the Shekinah Glory went in Ezekiel's time. He told them their house is left desolate. Jesus, the Shekinah, left the temple! Just as in the OT when God's glory went to the mount , Jesus also went to the Mount, The Mount of Olives Matt 24:1-3. In Matthew 24. Jesus was answering the TWO questions He was asked. He did not say the end of the world will be in those particular disciples' time. They asked Him when the temple will be destroyed AND they asked Him when will the end of the world be and he told them what will happen. He linked two questions, at the end of the world this world will be left desolate just as Jerusalem was left desolate when the Romans sacked the city and slayed numerous Jews. The Christians escaped because they knew of Jesus' and Daniel's prophecy, they knew of the abomination of desolation. ALSO MARK 9:, and there's more, but I didn't complete my search. These are enough lies for one day. Thumbelina: I truly wish atheists will stop reading the bible without the HS. If they do and they finally see the gospel they wind up making good preachers though Mark 9: New King James Version (NKJV) "1 And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.” Jesus Transfigured on the Mount 2 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them. ... "
Thumbelina Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 God gave us consciences. I am sure Eve had one too. Someone did an experiment with babies and they had puppets acting out certain roles and one puppet was bullying another puppet and the babies had empathy for the puppet that was bullied and beaten (Agi, knows about this) and they recoiled from the bully. So babies do have a sense of right and wrong. As I said, Eve should have said, 'God, what's going on here?' GENESIS 3 22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” She had no ethical judgement or awareness (conscience). That would come after the Fall. Sorry! Have you ever heard of PREMEDITATED murder? In God's eyes Eve sinned BEFORE she even touched that fruit, "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:..." If Eve was TOTALLY incapable of saying no, why pray tell will God command them NOT to eat from the tree in the first place? Gen 2:17 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen 3:2,3 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; All they had to do was OBEY instructions, they were WARNED!
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 8, 2012 Super Moderator Posted February 8, 2012 All they had to do was OBEY instructions, they were WARNED! Seriously, you can't see how idiotic that story is? That was a rhetorical question. Sorry, sometimes I feel overwhelmed by the absurdity of it all. 1
Thumbelina Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 All they had to do was OBEY instructions, they were WARNED! Seriously, you can't see how idiotic that story is? That was a rhetorical question. Sorry, sometimes I feel overwhelmed by the absurdity of it all. You can just say "hi" then. You don't discriminate that badly do you (that you won't say hello to a Christian)? The bible is for those who have an ear.
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 8, 2012 Super Moderator Posted February 8, 2012 The bible is for those who have an ear. ...and no cognitive or observational skills. And HELLO. 1
Thumbelina Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Re Post # 118 Thumbelina said: Q. When was Judaism ever a missionary religion? A. It was supposed to be but they did not fulfill the task, they kept apostatizing and stoning God's messengers who were sent to restore them. As a result, they kept on going into captivity and eventually they decided that they will save themselves by being exclusive and keeping the letter of the law. Their intentions were good but they were misguided. Centauri said: Keeping the letter of the law is exactly what God told them to do. Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Christianity, Paul in particular, did exactly what God told his people not to do. Thumbelina: Centauri, Paul did NOT add or take away anything from the law. The NT is the divinely inspired commentary on the OT! Paul was amazing in preaching and teaching the gospel (good news). Centauri said: An amazing apostate. Paul undermined the dietary law, the law on circumcision, the sabbath day, promoted faith in an invalid human sacrifice as substituting for obedience to the law, and claimed that a king messiah would eliminate the need to be subject to the law Paul did not undermine anything. Circumscion became optional and the Jews were at it AGAIN, they were telling the gentiles they were saved by ritual works (circumcision). Jesus AND Paul taught that if one has the right SPIRIT about the law then one will keep the letter of the law. Centauri said: Is eating pork keeping the letter of the law? Abstaining from pork is fulfilling the letter of the law, "Thou shalt not kill". Pigs and other crap eaters aren't meant for human consumption. Pigs need to be let loose in the landfills. Sorry for the folks that like it, Centauri and I are discussing the bible here. Thumbelina said: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isa 49:6 Centauri said: Ironically, you've just supported Israel as being the servant in Isa 53, and not Jesus. Thumbelina: Yup, Jesus is Israel. Israel means over comer. God Himself had to come to do what man failed to do. Centauri said: Jesus isn't Israel. Jesus didn't overcome anything, failing to perform the requirements of an expected king. Israel is God's "firstborn" son, not Jesus. Jesus is the begotten son and God loved Him even more for giving His life for us and being obedient to death. Prophecy is fulfilling just as the bible said it would. Jesus will eventually return and take His children with Him. Centauri said: There is nothing in Jeremiah that says a king messiah would need two trips, separated by thousands of years, to accomplish what he was supposed to do the first time. The second coming is the Christian rationailzation of a messianic failure. Hey man, ditch that tunnel vision and look at all of scripture, you reject the interpretation in Isaiah about Jesus but if you let the HS lead you, you will see. Thumbelina said: Jesus is real Israel because He overcame where they failed. My point is that God wanted Israel to be a beacon for the gentiles and it is stated in the OT. Centauri said: Jesus never fulfilled the basic job requirements of a king messiah. He never sat on the throne, never ushered in the messianic era of peace and prosperity, and never guided the people into great compliance with the law. Jesus overcame nothing, being in fact an illegal sacrifice according to the very law Christinaity claims he "fulfilled". There is nothing in the new covenant, as defined by God in Jer 31, that says anything about faith in a human sacrifice replacing God's law or the plan to infuse that law into the hearts of the people. God's promise to elevate Israel is unbreakable and the arrival of an actual king (not an imposter) will begin that process. Your claim that "Jesus is the real Israel" is a load of manure. Thumbelina: Jesus did fulfill the law; He brought it into fruition and MAGNIFIED it in spirit AND in truth. Centauri said: You don't fulfill the law by undermining it, nor do you fulfill job requirements by wishful thinking. Such is the case with Jesus and Christian claims that ignore the teachings of the Old Testament. Christians are not supposed to ignore the OT, the entire bible is necessary to understand God's purposes for mankind. The sacrifices were temporary.They were foreshadows of what God Himself will do for man. Centauri said: Sacrifices will be conducted in the messianic era per Jeremiah. They are not temporary. You like killing don't you?
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