So I Was Reading Up On Tartarus/hell/hades....

[mcdaddy]

Googlin' stuff, ya know. came across this and it just makes me laugh a little.

 

 

Question:

I was watching a show on T.V. and the "experts" were arguing that the Christians borrowed their concept of Hell from the Greeks concept of Hades. According to these individuals, Hades has different levels and the last level is where individuals are punished eternally by fire and other ways similar to the way explained in the New Testament. In discussions with my classmates, some have argued that the Jewish tradition does not have a concept of Satan or Hell that is similar to the Christian explanation of Satan or Hell. Thus, showing that Christians borrowed their idea of Satan and Hell from other sources-maybe during the Hellenistic period when different cultures and religious groups were in close contact with others. Do you know how Jews interpret Hell? Do Jews consider Hell a place of eternal punishment? How can I argue against the idea that Christians borrowed ideas of Hell or Satan during the Hellenistic Period?

 

 

 

Answer:

This is a harder question than you might think. The fact is that in the Old Testament the idea of heaven and hell is not fully developed. This is an example of what is sometimes called "progressive revelation." (HERE WE GO...)

 

Here is where the skeptical, unbelieving scholars step in. They point out that the Greeks had a teaching about an underworld, called Tartarus. I believe it is fair for scholars to say that the Greeks had a more thoroughly worked out idea of the underworld/afterlife than the Jews did in the centuries before Jesus lived. The Greek idea of Tartarus would be very roughly equivalent to the Jewish/OT teaching on Abaddon (the waiting place), not Hell (the place of final judgement). We cannot completely blame the skeptical scholars for proposing that the Jews borrowed their ideas about judgment, Hades and Hell from the Greeks. As a academic theory it is not unreasonable. It is true that the Jewish idea of the afterlife was somewhat vague, that the Greek idea was more well developed and that the New Testament teaching, like the Greek one, is more developed. However, we, as Christians, have a different perspective on this. We understand that "All scripture is inspired by God." We understand that the Bible writers got their ideas, not from Greek mythology, but by inspiration from God.

I believe that the data we have is more consistent with the belief that the Jewish idea of hell comes from the Old Testament and from direct revelation to Jesus and the apostles, not from Greek mythology. First of all, these scholars greatly exaggerate their case in order to "prove" their point. They are not correct when they say that the Old Testament did not include a doctrine of the afterlife, heaven and hell. Second, the New Testament idea of judgment, heaven and hell is far more similar to the Old Testament version, no matter how vague, than anything in Greek mythology. Both the OT and the NT idea of judgment, heaven and hell is monotheistic, for one thing. Also, the parallels between Daniel and Revelation 21-22 are undeniable. The parallels with the Greek idea of crossing the Styx river is pretty much non-existent. This is just one more case of scholars grasping at straws in an attempt to undermine our confidence in the Scripture. I believe that it is FAR more believable, based on the evidence (not even allowing for what we know--which is that the scriptures are inspired) to believe that Jesus and the apostles got their ideas about the afterlife, both from the Old Testament and from the same God who inspired the writing of Pslams, Daniel etc., than it is to believe that it came from the Greeks. Might the actual vocabulary used to describe the afterlife in the Greek language have come from Greek words. Of course, but obviously Greek speakers would use Greek words for these things, but the ideas did not come from the Greeks.

This brings me to the question of inspiration. The extremely biased perspective of the skeptical unbelieving scholars do not allow them to see the obvious, which is that the Christian idea of the afterlife is much more closely related to the OT than the Greek ideas. Let me add to this the question of inspiration. If we will allow for the idea that Jesus was inspired by God (which is pretty obvious, given his resurrection of Lazarus, walking on water, fulfilling the prophecies, his resurrection and a zillion other things), then the idea that he got his idea of the afterlife from Greek mythology becomes really quite absurd. Seriously, this claim is downright absurd. If we look at the life of Jesus, how can anyone reasonably propose that he got his concept of the afterlife from mythology, when it is quite clear that he had direct access to the Father in heaven?

Of course, in a scholarly setting, such things are generally discounted. In that arena this claim that Paul borrowed his teaching on hell from the Greeks is in play. I will have to admit that there is even some evidence that supports this conclusion. However, I believe even if we ignore the obvious, which is that "All scripture is inspired by God," it is still far more reasonable to conclude that the church got its idea of the afterlife principally from Jewish sources and borrowed vocabulary, but not ideas from the Greeks.

John Oakes

 

 

^^"EVEN IF WE IGNORE THE OBVIOUS, WHICH IS THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD"...

 

geez.

[Guest wester]

It is my understanding that our modern hell idea evolved in the theology of the middle ages, maybe as an expression of or rationalization for the various sadistic practices of the church back, which led to things like the inquisition, burning and torturing witches, and Calvinist totalitarianism. But I may not be totally correct on that.

[LivingLife]

Hell in the OT is a mistranslation of Sheol aka grave aka realm of the dead.

 

Gehenna was a rubbish dump outside Jerusalem

 

Hades is a Greek mythology

 

Tartarus is an imaginary place reserved for the imaginary satan and his imaginary angels (demons)

 

The Lake of fire is only in Revelation and if you read Revelation with a minimal understanding of Greek Mythology, you will see how this too borrowed from earlier myths

 

All of these words were translated as hell in the KJV.

[mwc]

Sheol was the grave. It meant just that. Death. That's why YHWH proclaims he is a god of the living. There's nothing more and no reason to be a god over something that is no longer. So while you live he is your god. When you die then he is not your god. Then, I think in Samuel, I believe Saul conjures up a spirit. I think (I could be wrong) that's the first contact with "the other side." Then it starts to get fuzzy. If there's another realm with dead folks who runs the joint?

 

Hades. Hades was the Kingdom of Hades. It was really the underworld but we're lazy and conflate the name of the guy in charge and place itself.

 

Hell is not a mistranslation of anything in the OT. It comes from the Old English "hel" (and others) and meant to "cover up" (or things to that effect). I think it also had similar spellings, pronunciations and meaning across other languages about the same time. I had thought it derived from the Norse "Hel" but learned that this was incorrect.

 

Gehenna, while it might have been a dump in a valley outside the city, is also thought to be where the entrance to the underworld lies. This isn't unheard of because outside Rome (I forget the name exactly) there was/is a place with a lake and they thought this was an entrance to the underworld as well (not the Jews). Such places existed all over the ancient world. What was meant in the writings we have seems to indicate a rather rapid burning up and not so much entry to the underworld however. Who knows if they are connected? There is evidence to suggest the fires did not burn in the first century CE as once believed which would then move the concept of burning to "another" place but still Gehenna.

 

Tartarus is interesting because it is where the Titans were sent after they lost the war with the Olympians. It has different characteristics depending on who writes on it. In one story the certain Titans are released (the giants and hundred handed ones if I recall correctly), for a time, to do battle before being banished forever (I'm paraphrasing of course). It is a story that is similar (but not close to) the Revelation. This is just a nice little spot down in the underworld and, speaking of Revelation, in 1 Enoch god places one of his angels in charge of this place (and Earth?).

 

mwc

[Suzy]

What a ridiculous answer! He basically bases his argument on the the claim that the Bible is "obviously" inspired by God. Geez, indeed. These guys really don't know what a reasonable argument is and how reasonable arguments work.

 

BTW, besides the Greeks, as much as I know the Egyptians influenced the Christian's teaching on Hell as well. For example the Lake of Fire comes from Egyptian mythology.

[Foxy Methoxy]

Greek and Egyptian ideas influenced one another and were absorbed into the melting pot of Christian beliefs. Hell is a case of a lie being told to a child. That child growing up believing the lie in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary and retelling the lie in attempt to update it to the current era. This cycle has continued for centuries.

 

There is no 2nd death. There never was. But somehow, the concept speaks to our greatest fears.