Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

I Do Not Deserve Hell!


jackbauer

Recommended Posts

Yeah, I'm posting this here because I want people to seriously think about this.

 

Every time there is a person who deconverts and posts their testimony for everyone to comment, there is also at least one Christian who has to comment preach. They call the deconvert selfish, prideful, thinks they know more than god, and that they were never a true Christian. They use scary bible verses threatening them with god's wrath and judgement for daring to let down Jesus. The amount of hate and self righteousness they display is amazing considering all the deconvert did is leave a faith when things didn't add up. There are many reasons why some might leave, maybe it was too much to handle, maybe Jesus or God never answered them, maybe they *gasp* thought for themselves and started to question things. For what ever reason, Jesus didn't work out.

 

Of course as annoying as those commentors are, I can't completely blame them. After all, their god is the same way. He seems to get angry over humans doing things their own way. If we don't agknowledge him, he gets pissed and destroys cities (even though he shows no sign of existing). It's amazing the amount of hatred god shows for his creation simply because they live the life he gave them. Even worse is that according to Christian theology, we not only deserve all the shit that happens on earth, but we also deserve to be punished in the afterlife FOREVER. Why? Because some douchebag ate an apple 6000 years ago and tainted the human race with some "original sin". Now apparently all humans are born evil and deserving of god's wrath simply because they can't help but fuck up. And the only way out is by believing that god had his son killed so he wouldn't have to kill us.

 

Again, I have to ask why? Why do we need to be punished? Didn't god give us free will? After all, I hear god didn't want robots and wanted a creation who would choose to follow him. Okay cool, but WHY THE BLOODY FUCK DOES HE NEED TO PUNISH PEOPLE WHO DON'T?!!! We're not talking serial killers here, we're talking every day imperfect humans who just don't choose god through the right means. If god wants humans to have a choice to serve him, there is no need to punish us for choosing not to. It's impossible to have an honest relationship with someone who is threatening you if you turn your back on them. That is not free will. If god only wanted those who served him in heaven, than the least he could do is allow ceasation of existance, not ideal, but at least that would respect our wishes.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If god only wanted those who served him in heaven, than the least he could do is allow ceasation of existance, not ideal, but at least that would respect our wishes.

 

When all is said and done, this point is the most damning for the biblegod. It reveals Him as a really hateful thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jack, it is a big pile of bullshit. To me , the biggest contradiction about the bible god, is how he's supposed to be all powerful, he created the entire universe, but he gets pissed off if tiny little creatures like us on an itty bitty planet, don't kiss his ass. It's a matter of scale. If there is an all powerful being who created the universe, it is beyond petty shit like if it's creations give it praise or not. We humans don't get pissed off because germs don't worship us.

 

To give the best idea of what I'm driving at, have a look at this video about the size of the universe.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0lxbzgwW7I

 

I'm being redundant, but a being who could create all that, isn't going to care about praise or worship etc, etc. What could anyone give a transcendent being that can make reality whatever it wants. Bible god is just something thought up by a bunch of ancient ignorant tribesmen, to explain the scary things they couldn't understand.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tabula: That's what I think. The universe is amazing, and Christians often cite the wonders of the universe to believe in god. These are also the same Christians who say "atheists don't want to believe in god because that means they'll be held accountable" and hold such a depressing world view about how horrible humanity is. I say the universe is too wonderful to be made be an angry, petty god who considers you his enemy for not living your life the way he wants you to.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

It's just a story told by ancient barbarians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The universe is amazing, and Christians often cite the wonders of the universe to believe in god.

 

It's a brilliant marketing strategy. Kinda like how Coke tied itself to xmas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, I have to ask why? Why do we need to be punished? Didn't god give us free will? After all, I hear god didn't want robots and wanted a creation who would choose to follow him. Okay cool, but WHY THE BLOODY FUCK DOES HE NEED TO PUNISH PEOPLE WHO DON'T?!!! We're not talking serial killers here, we're talking every day imperfect humans who just don't choose god through the right means. If god wants humans to have a choice to serve him, there is no need to punish us for choosing not to. It's impossible to have an honest relationship with someone who is threatening you if you turn your back on them. That is not free will. If god only wanted those who served him in heaven, than the least he could do is allow ceasation of existance, not ideal, but at least that would respect our wishes.

 

That's what I have always wondered. Biblegod is always ready to punish us everyday people who are moral, yet who do not believe based on evidence (or lack thereof). However, he is supposedly ready to forgive the serial killer who makes a last minute deathbed confession. (At least that's what I was always told). Ok, I know I am not really staying on your topic, but it's just something I've always wondered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, I have to ask why? Why do we need to be punished? Didn't god give us free will? After all, I hear god didn't want robots and wanted a creation who would choose to follow him. Okay cool, but WHY THE BLOODY FUCK DOES HE NEED TO PUNISH PEOPLE WHO DON'T?!!! We're not talking serial killers here, we're talking every day imperfect humans who just don't choose god through the right means. If god wants humans to have a choice to serve him, there is no need to punish us for choosing not to. It's impossible to have an honest relationship with someone who is threatening you if you turn your back on them. That is not free will. If god only wanted those who served him in heaven, than the least he could do is allow ceasation of existance, not ideal, but at least that would respect our wishes.

 

That's what I have always wondered. Biblegod is always ready to punish us everyday people who are moral, yet who do not believe based on evidence (or lack thereof). However, he is supposedly ready to forgive the serial killer who makes a last minute deathbed confession. (At least that's what I was always told). Ok, I know I am not really staying on your topic, but it's just something I've always wondered.

 

It's that "all sins are equal" bullshit. Morality isn't defined as what hurts other people, it's defined by what god doesn't like, which describes why Christians have such a skewed moral compas. Along with the rigid interpretation of the 10 commandments that makes lustful thoughts equal to adultery, anger equal to murder, worshiping a false god can be interprated to mean having any interests outside of god. Under the most extreme beliefs, mere intention can be considered a sin which makes being anything less than a robot a sin. Even though these same apologists argue that god didn't want robots. Wendywhatever.gif

 

The more I think about this, the more I realize how much of an over dramatic asshole god or Jesus would have to be to consider us his enemy for living a different life or not "surrendering to God". There are so many bible verses fundies use to scare or guilt unbelievers back to god, but it doesn't reflect well on god if he's feels he has to punish people disproportionately for not finding Jesus in time. I'm repeating myself, but can't god just let us cease to exist, give us a finite punishment, or I don't know, NOT WORRY ABOUT WHAT FINITE CREATURES DO? It's not like we can hurt him or anything.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I really hate this mindset.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it appears absurd, it probably is.

 

Now that is a good rule of thumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is basically, in a nutshell, why I wouldn't worship Abraham's god even if it was proven he was real. He's a petty asshole.

 

I also find the crucifixion to be utterly disgusting. Not only do I not deserve eternal punishment, NOTHING I have done in my life is so terrible that someone needed to be tortured and killed in my stead. That's horrific. I will not worship a god that thinks this way.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is basically, in a nutshell, why I wouldn't worship Abraham's god even if it was proven he was real. He's a petty asshole.

 

I also find the crucifixion to be utterly disgusting. Not only do I not deserve eternal punishment, NOTHING I have done in my life is so terrible that someone needed to be tortured and killed in my stead. That's horrific. I will not worship a god that thinks this way.

 

You know, I never get tired of hearing you say that. Thanks for reminding me again. One of these days it's going to sink in. I'll keep at it. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because everyone does go on to the grave. That's the deal. You live and then you die. You have a Sheol or Hades or the underworld or whatever name you want to give it but you die and then any number of things might happen at that point. You deserve it. You're made out of flesh. It's rotten. Kill something. It rots. Don't kill something. It ages...it rots slowly on its own. It will die anyhow. Flesh is doomed for some reason. It carries a "curse" and that curse is death. And since the "soul" lives inside the body it has an unknown future thanks to all this. It will go to destruction.

 

Or you can get around this. Choose life. Pick a way out. Find a way to not go to the grave. A loophole. Either you go to heaven where souls roam happy and free (there are other names for this as well) or you get a new body. Reincarnation might do this but let's say you don't want some strange new body so what about a resurrection? Get your old body back and plop yourself right back inside. Problem solved. You just need to get around the curse. Remember it? Flesh is cursed. It always rots and dies (and rots some more). You have to fix that curse and then make it so your soul will be happy living inside your fleshy body unlike now where it doesn't much care for its rotten home. Even a coat of paint doesn't solve the problem long term. You have to have a major renovation then things may well work out. If not you're off to rot and your soul will be sent to be miserable somewhere. What a pickle.

 

So no matter how you look at it as long as people rot and die (and rot some more) then the curse must be real. We may as well blame the first people who lived and then died. They screwed up. Doesn't matter how. They lived, maybe they had a chance to live forever, but they blew it, and now everyone dies. Maybe a talking snake did it or they thought they had some new way of playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors" that could never lose. Who cares. It's a story that people used at some point to explain why there was a curse and now something needed to be done. If it was meant for something else originally that didn't matter to anyone discussing this particular loophole idea. They were concerned with this and not what the story may have originally meant. We can argue that but unless we time travel and convince anyone they missed the point none of that matters.

 

mwc

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Well I for one would serve YHWH if he existed, and it would save me from an eternity of hell.

 

Just imagine, you live 100 years on earth, but in eternity that would be the blink of an eye, imagine that you suffer for 14 billion years or the age of the universe and it will also be the blink of an eye, well I doubt anyone can really imagine that.

 

What I fail to see is how any christian can say that the god which puts people through this is just. He has to be an extreme sadistic asshole in my opinion. Its even worse if you take the Calvinist approach where god can change you and refuses to. He basically creates people to send them to hell. Horrific.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I fail to see is how any christian can say that the god which puts people through this is just. He has to be an extreme sadistic asshole in my opinion. Its even worse if you take the Calvinist approach where god can change you and refuses to. He basically creates people to send them to hell. Horrific.

 

What's scary are the reasons god has for sending people to hell, to "glorify himself". I can't think of anything more despicable, evil, and worthy of hatred than that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I for one would serve YHWH if he existed, and it would save me from an eternity of hell.

 

Just imagine, you live 100 years on earth, but in eternity that would be the blink of an eye, imagine that you suffer for 14 billion years or the age of the universe and it will also be the blink of an eye, well I doubt anyone can really imagine that.

 

I just can't bring myself to even imagine bowing to such a creature, even to save me from eternal torment. Call it pride if you like, but because it's horrible and injust that he would damn people to eternal suffering for passing wrongs, I would stand up to him and spit in his face. Tell him to do his worst.

 

I can't bow to tyranny. I didn't at the christian school, and I wouldn't at the thone of the supposed "almighty."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see why this topic riles you up. It certainly pisses me off that this self hate has been passed down for so many generations. Christians claim to be about love, but how can you love thy neighbor when you believe us all worthy of eternal torment?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God doesn't send anyone to hell.

 

We choose to go there of our own free will, by rejecting Jesus' love.

 

GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God doesn't send anyone to hell.

 

We choose to go there of our own free will, by rejecting Jesus' love.

 

GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

Meanwhile in heaven . . . singing hymns still doesn't get old even after 20 trillion years. Awe, we are just getting warmed up. Let's have 200 trillion more times 200 trillion more. "Jesus loves me this I know . . . "

 

There is no getting off that ride.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

... He has to be an extreme sadistic asshole in my opinion. Its even worse if you take the Calvinist approach where god can change you and refuses to. He basically creates people to send them to hell. Horrific.

 

Now that I'm out of the Calvinist bible cult, I see it clearly. Calvinism is despicable...my understanding of Calvinism is that salvation is ALL of god's doing, there is nothing you can do to save yourself, you are either an elect of god, or on the highway to hell. Verses like "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated..." , "god hatest all workers of iniquity.." & "God shall send them strong delusion that they might believe a lie, that they might all be damned that believe not..." (((shudder)))

so, god is blinding their eyes, the person has NO CHOICE, either you are elect or not.

 

Oh & that whole "faith is a gift"...well, if god doesn't give that gift of faith to you ...too bad so sad. So when all is said & done, god could have saved feeling human beings from the eternal torment of hell, but does not. Matter of fact, my expastor, sadistic asshole that he is, when referencing those burning in the tortures in hell, that god will sadistically laugh at those writhing in torment & get pleasure from it. It's totally fucked up.

 

The fear of going to hell was one reason, probably the major reason I became a christian...who wants to burn in hell? I sure didn't....now i see it was all fear tactics. It's not about love, it's about fear, control & manipulation. god puts a gun to your head...."i love you, but if you don't believe, do this or that...stay strong til the end..on & on the list of hoop jumping goes...then I'll blow your fucking brains out!!pureevil.gif

So you'd better do what I say & not question...and btw, "jeezus loves you"trt19ROFLPIMP.gif

 

Hell is complete nonsense. It's nothing but a horrific fear tactic to get others to cow tow to religious controllers & those who want to have the upper hand in the lives of people.

No good God would do that. I can't believe that a good god would think hell is good & righteous, no way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ironically, perhaps from reading this thread, last night for the first time in a long time I woke up with night terrors fearing for my salvation and in my half asleep mindset I prayed for forgiveness (can you unpray this in the morning?). I didn't realize before that in the past hell caused me fear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ironically, perhaps from reading this thread, last night for the first time in a long time I woke up with night terrors fearing for my salvation and in my half asleep mindset I prayed for forgiveness (can you unpray this in the morning?). I didn't realize before that in the past hell caused me fear.

 

Maybe focus on why the concept is silly. Look at how it was a tool invented by men to control other people. See how effective that tool is? Or read accounts about Medieval Christians and their obsession with the bones of Saints. They would hang on to the heart, hand or skull of a dead guy because they thought these bones gave them spiritual power and authority. "The bones at my church are older than the bones in your church!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe focus on why the concept is silly. Look at how it was a tool invented by men to control other people. See how effective that tool is?

 

Oh I realize the concept is silly. I've thought about just how genius (at making and keeping converts) the concept of hell is and the fear that knowledge is a tool for the devil. Its the perfect way to get people into your fold and then make them associate satan with any doubts / fears your having. I just found it ironic that last night was the first time I feared hell in a very long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had dreams...more like nightmares of the church & people after leaving. Give yourself some time to process & hopefully it will get better for you.

One thing that helped me was well...talking to myself, reasoning with myself. I guess instead of the bible verses running through my mind, now I try to focus my thoughts on positive & logical affirmations. I read Emerson, Ingersoll, Darrow...putting good information in my head, instead of superstitious & fearful bible verses.

 

Just looking at the bible logically helped me sooo much...because it is not a logical or sensible book. The garden of Eden seemed like a total set up. Would a good parent put their children in a very dangerous situation without warning them or trying to give them the tools to protect themselves? Also, why is it that "god" did not want us to understand? It's like a conscious effort is being made to keep people ignorant & I think not eating from the supposed "tree of the knowledge of good & evil" is one example. Knowledge is a GOOD thing...why keep that from humans, unless the people who wrote the bible had a vested interest in keeping the populous ignorant & in submission to them.

There's nothing like fear & ignorance to manipulate others, as we know.

 

FWIW, I have been out of the cult almost 5 years & the people & pastor still pop up in my dreams/nightmares. I just had one last week....in the dream I was screaming at the pastor & trying to tell him how wrong he is...I think it's my subconscious coming out in those dreams. happy.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hmmm... I am not a Christian, but I do believe that the Christian Bible is inspired by HaShem and I don't see it actually teaching the hell that Christianity teaches. I see it teaching annihilation for those that don't believe. That one is granted eternal life when they follow HaShem. If someone does not follow HaShem they simply cease to exist. I mean what is eternal death? It can't be life in torment right?

 

I think you guys are right. Hell is a Christian doctrine because it scares people into joining churches and tithing there money. Problem is that the bible doesn't actually teach that doctrine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.