Foxy Methoxy Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Bumper stickers with corny messages like "Real Men Love Jesus," Facebook status updates that read "I'm in love with a man and his name is Jesus," et al. Why? What does Jesus do in the Bible that makes him so lovable? Miracles? There have been countless miracle workers and healers in history. Even if their dubious miracles were legit, no one goes around saying they love them. I've yet to see a tshirt shop dedicated to I <3 Krishna swag. Was it Jesus' teachings that makes him so lovable? If you answered yes, go back and actually read what he was doing. He was leading a rebellion against a temple sponsored by secularists. This was certain death in Roman times. It is partially true that he saved some of his followers from death. He took their place by being crucified so they wouldn't have to. He accomplished this by taking all the heat and allowing the temple to arrest him and place full blame on him. But he was the one who started the movement in the first place. This movement to overthrow the secularized temple in Jerusalem ended over 2000 years ago. He did not die to save you or me. He died to save his contemporaries fom a physical execution at the hands of Romans and subsequent cremation (the lake of fire*). And he wasn't even completely successful as many of them ended up being slaughtered in his name anyway. He was a failure. There is no need to love him. He did nothing to earn your love. When a person professes to love Jesus, they are like Paul and referrencing an image they created in their mind and naming that image Jesus. They are not loving the Jesus recorded in history (a man who has no reliable secular historic record). They are loving the part of their brain that generates an image of love. Seperate the facts from emotions. Analyze Jesus. Remove all the usual rhetoric, take a close look at his life and tell me what is lovable about anything he did. He got himself killed and he got a lot of other people killed while imparting zero teachings of value. *Romans practiced cremation which is against Jewish custom. The biggest insult that could happen to an executed Jew's family was for the body to be burned like common rubbish. The first death in the Bible is physical death. The second death is the desecration of the body through Roman cremation. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Silly thing, we know Jesus is Love the same way we know God is good: The Bible tells us so! Seriously. That's all the True Believer™ has — nothing but unsupported assertions. It's the same way they carry out their soul-recruitment efforts. It seems they believe that endless repetition of a statement somehow makes it true, regardless of the lack of evidence to support that statement and even in the light of contradictory evidence. I think one reason it was rather easy for me to deconvert is that the concept of a "relationship with Jesus" never resonated with me back when I was trying, in a half-hearted way, to be a Christian. I just couldn't "feel" him any more than I could feel anyone who lived and died 2000 years ago and is now supposedly in Heaven, paying me no mind and making no attempt to contact or even acknowledge me. Apparently, I lack the self-delusion gene. In short, I thoroughly agree with you. Great post! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks, Thack! I was trying to write something akin to an evangelic pamphlet only for imploring Christians to stop being stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrox Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Bumper stickers with corny messages like "Real Men Love Jesus," Facebook status updates that read "I'm in love with a man and his name is Jesus," et al. Why? What does Jesus do in the Bible that makes him so lovable? Miracles? There have been countless miracle workers and healers in history. Even if their dubious miracles were legit, no one goes around saying they love them. I've yet to see a tshirt shop dedicated to I <3 Krishna swag. Was it Jesus' teachings that makes him so lovable? If you answered yes, go back and actually read what he was doing. He was leading a rebellion against a temple sponsored by secularists. This was certain death in Roman times. It is partially true that he saved some of his followers from death. He took their place by being crucified so they wouldn't have to. He accomplished this by taking all the heat and allowing the temple to arrest him and place full blame on him. But he was the one who started the movement in the first place. This movement to overthrow the secularized temple in Jerusalem ended over 2000 years ago. He did not die to save you or me. He died to save his contemporaries fom a physical execution at the hands of Romans and subsequent cremation (the lake of fire*). And he wasn't even completely successful as many of them ended up being slaughtered in his name anyway. He was a failure. There is no need to love him. He did nothing to earn your love. When a person professes to love Jesus, they are like Paul and referrencing an image they created in their mind and naming that image Jesus. They are not loving the Jesus recorded in history (a man who has no reliable secular historic record). They are loving the part of their brain that generates an image of love. Seperate the facts from emotions. Analyze Jesus. Remove all the usual rhetoric, take a close look at his life and tell me what is lovable about anything he did. He got himself killed and he got a lot of other people killed while imparting zero teachings of value. *Romans practiced cremation which is against Jewish custom. The biggest insult that could happen to an executed Jew's family was for the body to be burned like common rubbish. The first death in the Bible is physical death. The second death is the desecration of the body through Roman cremation. Good post Foxy. I agree 100%. I found the "relationship" I had with Jesus was becoming totally one-way. I was doing all the giving and I was getting nothing back. Jesus, eh? I couldn't live with him. He was a terrible family man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Western civilization took a huge left turn with the Bible. The story we've been told it tells is not the story it tells. We need to sort out all the nonsense and once we finally do, Christianity will cease to exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 11, 2012 Silly thing, we know Jesus is Love the same way we know God is good: The Bible tells us so! Yes, Thackerie I have the scripture that proves this!! god is so good....read this......... Romans 11:29-32 (Good News Translation) 32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all. If that's not enough to make you crazy!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I used to have a personal relationship with Jesus and loved Him dearly. Then I read the Bible and realized that I was loving an imposter. My Jesus is cooler than your Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBluegrassSkeptic Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Meh, I look at it as this: We are so awful,that even God decided it was better to let a part of himself die than continue on in our presence, that's why he only bothered to reveal himself to a handful of people before he took off forever, without any proof he ever existed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 We love Jesus because Jesus put it on the line when the psychotic monster, God the Father, was plotting to get us. Aren't you glad Jesus protected us from God the Father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 *Romans practiced cremation which is against Jewish custom. The biggest insult that could happen to an executed Jew's family was for the body to be burned like common rubbish. The first death in the Bible is physical death. The second death is the desecration of the body through Roman cremation. Shit! So I should be worried about the Romans desecrating my body after I'm dead. Dammit! That factoid makes so much more sense now in light of some of the things he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 People are in love with the Jesus of the "Fuzzy Feeling of Connectedness to a benevolent Friend/Father in the sky." The Bible just supplies the approved buzz words and narratives they use to make their fuzzy feeling generation sound officially Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Love the post, Foxy! This should be made into a letterbox flyer! Oh, and I reckon this should be pinned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Love the post, Foxy! This should be made into a letterbox flyer! Oh, and I reckon this should be pinned! I heartily concur!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I always found it hard to love the God of the Bible. You can only genuinely love someone you know. The only source we can "know" God from is the Bible. But how the Bible portrays God is just not lovable to me. Not even Jesus is lovable with his temper tantrums. And when I tried hard to force myself to imagine Jesus as perfect (and that all his temper tantrums were just rightgeous indignation), that was another problem, because IMO it's hard to love someone who is perfect. (That's why it's good we, humans aren't.) I mean he has everything, he is perfect, so why would he need my love? At the end of the day I think all the "Christ loving" is just self loving (like the whole of Christianity is). People "love" Jesus not because who he is as a person, but beceause "he saved ME. ME! ME! ME!" Christianity is the religion of selfishness. "God is so great, so good because he saved ME! Never mind all the while he starves and tortures millions of people to death elsewhere, but he saved ME! Hallelujah! Never mind thousands of children die every moment in horrible diseases, but God is soooo great because he made MY favorite baseball team win last night!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 *Romans practiced cremation which is against Jewish custom. The biggest insult that could happen to an executed Jew's family was for the body to be burned like common rubbish. The first death in the Bible is physical death. The second death is the desecration of the body through Roman cremation. Shit! So I should be worried about the Romans desecrating my body after I'm dead. Dammit! That factoid makes so much more sense now in light of some of the things he said. Yeah. Those damned imperials who dispose of the dead in an orderly fashion. The practice of corpse preservation and burial was and is such a waste of land. All for the hope God will someday reanimate us. What a silly notion. If you look at a general outline of his message, it reads like this: the temple is corrupt and its teachings are false I have been given from God the correct teachings my cousin, John the Baptist, was the son of the last legit high priest. After Herod executed John, I became the new true high priest. follow me and we will force the high priest and his men to stand down get baptized in public (a mock embalming ritual) to show everyone we're not afraid to die for our cause our beef is not with Rome although they will probably kill us anyway our beef is not with King Herod although he may want to have us killed if the temple pulls strings to have King Herod or Pontius Pilate kill me, then you have all the proof you need that they are corrupt. I am willing to die to prove this to my flock don't be afraid of death. I'm not and neither should you. If myself or your brothers are executed, don't allow the soldiers to cremate us because God will reanimate our bodies someday, raise up an army of dead and destroy the temple as punishment for their wickedness. You cannot serve in such an army if your body is cremated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Damn, I wish you were around to explain this all to me when I was 17. Life would have been a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 I wish I understood this stuff when I was 17, too! I recently re-started my studies of the Bible and these are essentially my condensed notes. If you notice after he dies, the temple's veil gets torn and a bunch of dead bodies rise (including his own) from the grave encouraging his followers to continue the fight against the temple. Once Paul gets a hold of the message, he hijacks it and changes it into a method for overthrowing the religion of Rome. It's important to understand the origin of Christianity is a conservative religious rebellion. It had a very specific cause that does not translate to modern times. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I wish I understood this stuff when I was 17, too! I recently re-started my studies of the Bible and these are essentially my condensed notes. If you notice after he dies, the temple's veil gets torn and a bunch of dead bodies rise (including his own) from the grave encouraging his followers to continue the fight against the temple. Once Paul gets a hold of the message, he hijacks it and changes it into a method for overthrowing the religion of Rome. It's important to understand the origin of Christianity is a conservative religious rebellion. It had a very specific cause that does not translate to modern times. I wonder if any of that ever happened? The curtain, the dead people... I mean, the curtain's weird enough on its own, when you think about it, but how the hell did those people get out of the ground?? Did they all get out of the ground? Or just one site? And why only that site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Like most things miraculous in the Bible, we can only take their word for it as we have no way to validate it with any secular historical records. We can't even prove King David or King Solomon existed let alone the supernatural events. It's not just Judeo-Christian lore either. Romans kept records of encountering dragons while sacking Carthage and no historian in his right mind actually trusts the story. Ancient writings are dodgy at best. You have to sift through a lot of metaphor to get to a plausible scenario. But as far as getting out of the ground, Jerusalem has a vast array of natural and man made caverns under it. Slots were cut out of the walls inside these caverns and the embalmed bodies were placed in the slot and then the slot was closed with loose rocks. If they came back to life, they could push aside the rocks and walk out. There existed an expectation among apocalyptic sects that the dead would crawl from these cavernous graves someday. These caves were natural waterways where they got their drinking water from (bad idea to mix drinking water with dead bodies, but they didn't understand this at the time). They also performed water baptism in these same caverns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Also, the notion Jesus had a massive boulder in front of a great cave is a hilarious literal interpretation. When Joseph of Arimathea gave Jesus his cave, he didn't own the whole cave and they didn't roll a 200,000 lb boulder in front of the entrance. Jesus was placed in a slot large enough for his body and rocks were placed loosely in front of it. Mary and Mary Magdalene waited three days for the flesh to begin to soften making it easier to embalm and brought in the oils and fragrances to prevent him from putrefying with the intent to preserve him and then cover him back up with rocks. They were upset thinking the opposition had stolen the body and caused the dreaded 2nd death. The Roman guards were likely placed there to protect the body from being desecrated as they feared a full scale riot if someone burned the corpse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 *Romans practiced cremation which is against Jewish custom. The biggest insult that could happen to an executed Jew's family was for the body to be burned like common rubbish. The first death in the Bible is physical death. The second death is the desecration of the body through Roman cremation. Shit! So I should be worried about the Romans desecrating my body after I'm dead. Dammit! That factoid makes so much more sense now in light of some of the things he said. Yeah. Those damned imperials who dispose of the dead in an orderly fashion. The practice of corpse preservation and burial was and is such a waste of land. All for the hope God will someday reanimate us. What a silly notion. If you look at a general outline of his message, it reads like this: the temple is corrupt and its teachings are false I have been given from God the correct teachings my cousin, John the Baptist, was the son of the last legit high priest. After Herod executed John, I became the new true high priest. follow me and we will force the high priest and his men to stand down get baptized in public (a mock embalming ritual) to show everyone we're not afraid to die for our cause our beef is not with Rome although they will probably kill us anyway our beef is not with King Herod although he may want to have us killed if the temple pulls strings to have King Herod or Pontius Pilate kill me, then you have all the proof you need that they are corrupt. I am willing to die to prove this to my flock don't be afraid of death. I'm not and neither should you. If myself or your brothers are executed, don't allow the soldiers to cremate us because God will reanimate our bodies someday, raise up an army of dead and destroy the temple as punishment for their wickedness. You cannot serve in such an army if your body is cremated. I've read alot of stuff about hebrew and christian origins, but this is pretty new to me. What did you read that showed you this, or lead you to this conclusion? very interesting!! thx McD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 It was a thesis in my undergraduate studies many years ago. I've continued researching for personal purposes off and on. At some point, I'll complete my dissertation and include all of my supporting documentation should I decide to finish out my formal religious studies, but it's still a long way off and because I'm no longer a Christian, it feels pointless. I know what I'm posting here is unsupported, but hopefully, if you've read the bible, you can see how I'm getting from point A to point B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 However, if you're interested in understanding the stories of the Bible and tossing out all the literal misconceptions we have, travel to Jerusalem and the surrounding region and see this place for yourself. It will give you a whole new perspective regarding the events described. Every story in the Bible has a physical location and when people see these locations, they realize Western Civilization took the ball and ran the wrong way. Jesus was not born in a ranch style barn. John did not baptize in a lake. Gehenna is a place where rubbish was burned and the bodies of undesirable people were burned alongside garbage. Armageddon is a real place. There is a mystical burial site where Abraham, Isaac, Israel, Esau (well, his severed head, anyway), Sarah, Leah, and Rebecca are buried that no one dares to enter. There is a tomb for Rachel where infertile women have prayed for children for centuries. Muslims, Jews, and Christians of the region have visited these sacred spots for centuries and the tales in the Torah, the Bible, and the Koran are the fruit of these shrines, stories people tell to try to explain why these sacred places are important. Western culture is in general almost clueless to the real places of the Bible and our imaginations have gotten carried away reading the stories out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I wonder if any of that ever happened? The curtain, the dead people... I mean, the curtain's weird enough on its own, when you think about it, but how the hell did those people get out of the ground?? Did they all get out of the ground? Or just one site? And why only that site? Notice that the people rising from the dead (and the earthquake) when Jesus was crucified is only mentioned in Matthew. I guess all of the gospel writers thought that was some minor detail that wasn't even worth writing down. I suppose numerous people rising from the dead and walking around to be seen by everyone was a common occurence in ancient Israel. It must have been if the event wasn't enough to make the authors of Mark, Luke, and John say, "Oh shit! Look! These people died years ago! We'd better write that shit down!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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