Jovial Atheist

[blueheron]

In another thread somwhere, a link to Jovial Atheist: http://www.jovialatheist.com/ was posted. The atheist who has the website apparently believes in government cover-ups about aliens & UFO's. You have to read the section on Aliens to really see how much of it s/he believes.

 

I have spent some time reading on alien/ufo conspiracy sites and they talk about some very weird stuff as you can imagine. Such as aliens keeping people prisoner underground. How can people believe this stuff and not go mad? They have supposed government documents you can read online (I looked at some) discussing ET's and UFO's. They have the testimony of people who supposedly worked in Area 51.

 

What gets me are the theories on WHY they are here. For example, some of the sites say they are coming back to destroy us and start fresh on a new, improved species. Some sites make them out to be nicer, saying they are going to help us evolve to the next level.

 

I find it all interesting, but it makes my brain hurt to spend much time on those webites. But what are your thoughts on the whole matter? And is the subject along the lines of other paranormal material - such as elves, ghosts, etc. How much can you believe without being taken further and further into such a weird & wacky world? Or is it best to not believe anything

 

The alien issue, especially goes off in all sorts of ways - into the new age (channeling, evolving, crystal children, etc.), or into end of the world scenarios (evil aliens going to enslave or kill earthlings), to aliens here to share techhnology and help us evolve (in exchange for some cattle and people !!)

 

I feel silly enough posting about this, but there is so much out there on the subject. I even saw where it is the 2nd most searched for topic on the web (I can guess what is the first)

[pandora]

Eh... I don't know. My late father really believed in aliens and such, so perhaps I inherited a bit of the conspiracy theory gene from him because I think it is possible that humans have come into contact with aliens. Although, I do think most of the abduction stories are a bunch of BS.

 

It is embarrassing to admit, and I don't read much about it because it makes my brain hurt too.

[pandora]

I forgot to mention that I think a lot of things could be explained by some mass govt mind-control experiment... but I can't decide which is worse and make me crazier.. that aliens exist or that the government is doing some creative mind control.

[MQTA]

just jury is out.. some of it is just too frightening to consider. but whatever the story is, that's our present and history, who knows our future.

 

I never read about the Sumerian texts before this year http://www.halexandria.org

 

could very well be alien creatio, read the page on genesis and about enki & enlil.

 

ufos/aliens are one thing, but how it all ties into the Sumerian texts... that's not just co-inky-dink

 

http://halexandria.org/dward180.htm

[nightflight]

But............isn't it unlikely that any alien life would be humanoid? You would have to assume that evolution on other worlds would follow the same trajectory as on earth. I haven't read anything from alien advocates which discusses this.

[Amethyst]

I don't believe that UFOs are currently buzzing us, abducting people, etc., but I'm pretty sure that we will discover alien life eventually. It'll probably be microscopic life that we find first, but it'll still be life.

 

As to intelligent alien life, I think the odds are more likely that it exists, but I doubt it's anything like science fiction shows have speculated so far. I would be very surprised if aliens turned out to be even remotely humanoid in nature.

[Ssel]

I forgot to mention that I think a lot of things could be explained by some mass govt mind-control experiment... but I can't decide which is worse and make me crazier.. that aliens exist or that the government is doing some creative mind control.

 

..for what it's worth, the watering of the UFO idea among the population began to help conceal important military aircraft projects. Today, such really isn't so necessary. But 50 years ago, it was important to keep the population a bit distracted from the truth. And then merely 35 years ago, it became high priority to keep the population busy...with ANYthing. The rationale for this is a longer story.

[Amethyst]

..for what it's worth, the watering of the UFO idea among the population began to help conceal important military aircraft projects.

 

You know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that turned out to be the case. I find that a lot more believable than a lot of the ufo hype.

[spamandham]

Personally, I do not see anything that is even remotely compelling regarding aliens. Ancient paintings that look sort of like flying saucers could also just be depictions of the sun on the horizon. Ancient paintings of "aliens" don't look much different form people - any of us could doodle them - and could in fact be the progeny of modern day alien depictions. Why do we find it surprising?

 

Is there really just too much evidence to dismiss, or has alienism become just like any other meme, making vague claims and then backing them up with crap after the fact to "prove" the original claims?

 

Those who "believe" always seem to know why the aliens are visiting. They never just say "hell I don't know what the fuck it was or why it did that, I was hoping you could tell me".

[Amethyst]

Is there really just too much evidence to dismiss, or has alienism become just like any other meme, making vague claims and then backing them up with crap after the fact to "prove" the original claims?

 

Well, it is becoming a religion now. Look at Scientology and the Raeliens (sp?). There are probably other UFO cults, too.

 

I think that thinking we're the only intelligent life in the entire universe is really arrogant, and we probably will find life of some sort on another planet (be it microscopic or otherwise), but to think that flying saucers are coming here and abducting people and such is a bit off the wall, IMHO.

 

Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence, be they religious or otherwise.

[SpaceMonk]

http://www.disclosureproject.org/npcwebcast.htm

 

[ped]

the closest galaxy, andromeda is 2.9 million light years away. think about that........traveling at ~186,000 miles per second it would take 2.9 million years to reach earth. as for aliens in our own galaxy .....100,000 LY by ~10,000-20,000 LY thick.

it unlikely that aliens in our own galaxy would have evolved so much as to travel at half the speed of light.

 

so the whole alien thing seems highly likely that they are out there.

but even more unlikely they are flying to earth.

[All Gods Fail]

the closest galaxy, andromeda is 2.9 million light years away. think about that........traveling at ~186,000 miles per second it would take 2.9 million years to reach earth. as for aliens in our own galaxy .....100,000 LY by ~10,000-20,000 LY thick.

it unlikely that aliens in our own galaxy would have evolved so much as to travel at half the speed of light.

 

so the whole alien thing seems highly likely that they are out there.

but even more unlikely they are flying to earth.

 

This is the point at which UFOlogy resembles religion. I agree, ped - any alien spacecraft reaching us would be traveling an almost impossible distance.

 

But in order to justify a belief in UFOs, you simply say, "Well, they're so advanced they're using wormholes (or teleportation, or whatever)" to explain it away. Once you're in the realm of speculation, anything goes. Since alien technology (like God's power) is unknowable, it doesn't need to conform to our 'imperfect' knowledge of science/physics.

[SpaceMonk]

the closest galaxy, andromeda is 2.9 million light years away. think about that........traveling at ~186,000 miles per second it would take 2.9 million years to reach earth. as for aliens in our own galaxy .....100,000 LY by ~10,000-20,000 LY thick.

it unlikely that aliens in our own galaxy would have evolved so much as to travel at half the speed of light.

 

so the whole alien thing seems highly likely that they are out there.

but even more unlikely they are flying to earth.

 

This is the point at which UFOlogy resembles religion. I agree, ped - any alien spacecraft reaching us would be traveling an almost impossible distance.

 

But in order to justify a belief in UFOs, you simply say, "Well, they're so advanced they're using wormholes (or teleportation, or whatever)" to explain it away. Once you're in the realm of speculation, anything goes. Since alien technology (like God's power) is unknowable, it doesn't need to conform to our 'imperfect' knowledge of science/physics.

Impossible?

Justifying a belief?

Unknowable?

Speculation?

 

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

"...over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret."

 

...and yes, it's Non-Profit.

[Kuroikaze]

I don't believe that UFOs are currently buzzing us, abducting people, etc., but I'm pretty sure that we will discover alien life eventually. It'll probably be microscopic life that we find first, but it'll still be life.

 

As to intelligent alien life, I think the odds are more likely that it exists, but I doubt it's anything like science fiction shows have speculated so far. I would be very surprised if aliens turned out to be even remotely humanoid in nature.

 

hmmm...that brings up an interisting point. If they weren't humanoid would we even recognize that they were inteligent? Considiering our ethnocentric tendencys, we probably woudn't even know we were dealing with inteligent life.

[All Gods Fail]

Impossible?

Justifying a belief?

Unknowable?

Speculation?

 

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

"...over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret."

 

...and yes, it's Non-Profit.

 

I tried to read their evidence but they wanted money for it.

 

And they sure have a lot of things for sale, don't they?

[highvoltage]

Impossible?

Justifying a belief?

Unknowable?

Speculation?

 

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

"...over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret."

 

...and yes, it's Non-Profit.

 

I tried to read their evidence but they wanted money for it.

 

And they sure have a lot of things for sale, don't they?

 

Me too. They do seem pretty politically active, and they've done a lot of research, so they want some money to help offset their costs. For five bucks, though, I think I would pay five dollars to read the "testimonies" of these 400 witnesses, and skim the 500+ page document they've compiled.

 

I did read some of the testimonies online, and some are almost certainly bogus. Not that they all are; it's not the bogus ones I'm interested in, it's the testimonies that aren't obvious fabrications that interest me.

[SpaceMonk]

 

I tried to read their evidence but they wanted money for it.

 

And they sure have a lot of things for sale, don't they?

That doesn't have any relevance to the topic itself.

You can watch the video of their May 2001 Press Conference for free, in which all the witnesses stated they were willing to testify before Congress.

You can listen on audio to plenty of radio interviews for free. You can read their essays on free energy and anti-gravity for free (on their sister site). You can read their magazine interviews for free - and the point of it all becomes obvious - without paying a thing.

These people are sincere and earnest - far from the loons skeptics are usually dealing with when it comes to this field. The witnesses have risked their careers, their reputations and even their lives to bring out the truth, and all you want to do is sit back and laugh?

They need funds to cover their costs and get the word out, but it is non-profit.

You can ignore it, and laugh it at it - but you can't deny it if you haven't even looked into it.