Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Furthermore, Lazarus and others were resurrected from the dead, so they died more than once, which contradicts Heb 9:27. Show from the text of John that Lazarus faced God for his judgment before he was awakened by Jesus to live again in his body. Heb 9:27 is telling us about our limitations not God's. We can not choose when to repent. It is not at our will to make a choice after death. God is sovereign and can choose to do as He pleases. Then he failed to notify the author of Hebrews that some people die more than once. He chose to raise Lazarus from the dead. In 1Co 15:51 these Saints will also not experience physical death at His discretion. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, Heb 9:27 states that people die once and then face judgment. Lazarus died twice and did not face judgment the first time. The saints in Matt 27 also died more than once. The judgment Paul (whom you continually discriminate against) was talking about is the judgment where people would receive their rewards. This did not happen yet. Your aunty Meg is not in heaven looking down at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Whatever you do for the poor, you do for Him. Yes it is definitely good to do those things, however God does not call members to do exactly the same things. Many Members Make up one Church Body 12For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18But now has God set the members every one of them in the body, as it has pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where would be the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our less respectable parts have greater respect. 24 For our more respectable parts have no need: but God has arranged the body together, having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular. ............................ I am glad I belong to Christianity and Christianity supports missionsaries. They feed the poor and provide medical and dental assistance. I am/was happy to learn that ministering to the poor is a science and that more experienced people are able to handle it so I don't have to be a Lone Ranger Christian trying to save the world all by myself in areas where I am unequipped to be productive. Eg.When people send clothes to random people all willy nilly it then affects the others who make a living by selling clothes or cloth or other sewing materials. The missionaries teach them to be self supportive so everyone receives benefit. I am happy to support them in areas where I am able to. I am also happy to know the bible teaches that a person is not saved by works so I do not have to try to earn my way into heaven. I do not want to have a crisis like what Mother Teresa had: "She compares the experience to hell and at one point says it has driven her to doubt the existence of heaven and even of God." Read more: http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz1e09uhREn Lord, my God, who am I that You should forsake me? The Child of your Love — and now become as the most hated one — the one — You have thrown away as unwanted — unloved. I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on Whom I can cling — no, No One. — Alone ... Where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness — My God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart — & make me suffer untold agony. — addressed to Jesus, at the suggestion of a confessor, undated Obviously Mother Teresa experienced unnecessary anguish because of her misunderstanding of God and she did not learn about entering into His rest. She would have been rejuvenated if she knew about resting in Him. Sadly, Mother Teresa's belief system that taught her sanctification, justification and then glorification when the bible teaches justification, sanctification and then glorification. I hope she eventually did find peace with God. I am pleased to be the apple of God's eye and to know that He loves me with an everlasting love inspite of my weaknesses. He has encouraged me so many times so I know that He is with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Dead people that existed prior to Jesus would not know the gospel. Are you deaf? The dead know not anything! They would have had to know BEFORE they died. The gospel was presented as soon as Adam and Eve sinned: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:15 21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. Gen 3:21 ^ Adam and Eve knew that God will take our place in the first death! God put eternity in the hearts of men, we inherently know something ain't right down here. We somehow have a sense of right and wrong albeit a someone skewed sense of what is actually right and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I have a church member who was a window washer on the world trade center. He used to take his vacation in August every year for 15 years, I think. He would have resumed work in September. In 2001, God impressed his mind to start his vacation on September 11th and he did. His partner took his vaction in August as usual and perished while my church member did not. As a proof of God, this is circular. You assume the thing you are trying to prove. It wasn't a proof of God, I was giving an analogy with someone's testimony. I should have told him that the person was psychic and knew that there would be a fire in the theater in advance so that a person will go there at their own peril. As an attempt to show the goodness of God, this is repugnant. I will not even give the reasons why, which should be self-evident. Why don't you put back on your Christian googles for a sec' and tell me why Christians are to not let their hearts be troubled and why Christians should not fear death if and when it comes at them? There are many ways to free your heart from being troubled and to overcome fear of death. Thumbelina, I am much more free of feeling troubled now than I was as a Christian because I am not trying to salvage belief in an omnipotent God who carries out the haphazard kind of favoritism that your spin on the story suggests. If God is so compassionate why then allow so many to be fried in the towers? I too know people who lost their lives that day. It's much less troubling to believe that the universe is eternal, shit happens, we have a moral sense and it's imperfect, than to try to square belief in God's benevolence with belief in his omnipotence and foreknowledge, in light of evil that occurs. Howdy, I was answering previous posts, I tend to lose track of posts There are many ways to free your heart from being troubled and to overcome fear of death. Like drinking and smoking weed? It's the norm in this world. Satan is basically in charge of this world because most of this earth's inhabitants choose to follow him. He is the one that does most of those things. He inspired the terrorists with hatred and selfishness. His charge is that the universe can run just fine without God's rules/commandments. God is letting him demonstrate that. Other beings are seeing that God is right and Satan is wrong, they will trust God and His will for them implicitly after the mess that occurred on this planet. I'm sorry your friends died, my church memebers got away, I know of three of them, two were covered in dust and had to run.The other took his vacation starting that day. However, I did lose church members in Haiti 2 years ago. That is why Christians are to be right with God (tomorrow is NOT promised) then death will only be a temporary nap. You know the texts the bible gives for believers not fearing death. The disciples got bold when they realized Jesus was resurrected. Death is no biggie for God. P.S. Church attendance went up after 9/11, when there is relative peace people do not think about their eternal destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Honestly, the whole "you can't repent after death" and the "judged after death" comes from religions older than Christianity. Christians didn't invent it, and they can't explain why their God supposedly made it that way either. The Christians in this thread have been kind enough to provide scripture references for their doctrines. Can you please provide the proper citations for your claims about older religions. Maybe there is already a thread I could refer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Why can't people repent after death? God made the rules. Does the Bible explain why God made it that way? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 It is written: For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:15 God is good but He chooses to be even gooder! For the skeptics --> No, it is not favortism, God does things for His glory (He knows the end from the beginning) for He wants His children to love and trust Him. So thousands are killed in 9/11, and others decide not to go to work that day and live, and this whole thing glorifies God and entices people to love and trust him. Listen to yourself, T. One of my "last straws" was when a friend at age 28 was discovered to have very advanced cancer, everyone prayed, including little children at a nearby school, but he died anyway. For years I would have said, God took Rod to himself, His ways are higher than our ways, etc. But this time it just snapped and I saw. I saw that a God who would reject the prayers of little children praying for someone else -- either is less good and just than I and those kids or doesn't exist. A point comes when you realize that "it's a mystery" really should be read as "it's a crock." I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 It is not at our will to make a choice after death. God is sovereign and can choose to do as He pleases. Which means that God could have made it possible to repent after death when it would be more obvious that God exists for real. In this world, the evidence is scarce and crappy, and it's the foundation for the believe that will decide our eternal fate. But after death, when we really would know if God exists or not, then we can't repent. God is a dickhead-squared compared to Jesus. I find the evidence overwhelming and convincing. I believe without a shadow of a doubt there is an afterlife, satan is waring with God and the saints, hell exists, that the Creator of the universe is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and that Jesus of Nazareth is His Messiah. I have zero doubt about these facts. You don't, now why do you suppose there is a difference between you and I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 In Zoroastrianism, the belief is that you are judged within three days after you die by three individuals (one of the Mithra). And if your good deeds, words, and thoughts overweights the bad ones, you'll go to Heaven. Zoroastrianism is as old as Judaism, or perhaps older. They got this revelation from a prophet. He must've been from God since he got all these things right. Right? It's Satan's lie of 'you shall not die.' He wants people to go to hell with him and he does not want people to repent before they die. I'm missing your point? Are you saying Zoroastrians are wrong because they believe the same thing as you? The Zoroastrians can at least explain WHY you have to do it before you die. Christians can't. They just say "you must" without having any other explanation that "God says so." Zoroastrians have at least some reasonable arguments. It seems to me that you've lost your magical guidance counselor. Can you please provide evidence of some sort regarding your zoroastrian claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. I am sorry to hear this. It is very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. I am sorry to hear this. It is very sad. Yeah. Her favorite song was " I Know My Redeemer Lives" Her doctor came to her funeral and she did live longer than they expected. Many others died before her and her Christian grandmother got to make friends in the hospital and minister to others. What if some people from that hospital end up in heaven because of that experience with her and her grandmother and her church family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. I am sorry to hear this. It is very sad. Yeah. Her favorite song was " I Know My Redeemer Lives" Her doctor came to her funeral and she did live longer than they expected. Many others died before her and her Christian grandmother got to make friends in the hospital and minister to others. What if some people from that hospital end up in heaven because of that experience with her and her grandmother and her church family? I agree that religion can provide strength and consolation. Many religions and also some philosophies like Stoicism or Epicureanism do this as well. I think you have more compassion and justice than the character "God" as seen across the whole Bible, Thumbelina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. I am sorry to hear this. It is very sad. Yeah. Her favorite song was " I Know My Redeemer Lives" Her doctor came to her funeral and she did live longer than they expected. Many others died before her and her Christian grandmother got to make friends in the hospital and minister to others. What if some people from that hospital end up in heaven because of that experience with her and her grandmother and her church family? I agree that religion can provide strength and consolation. Many religions and also some philosophies like Stoicism or Epicureanism do this as well. I think you have more compassion and justice than the character "God" as seen across the whole Bible, Thumbelina. I believe that the biblegod offers that peace that passes understanding. He is lovely and wonderful, I wish you can see that. Aren't you relieved that Bin Laden was caught? Would you have liked him to go unpunished for his crimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. I am sorry to hear this. It is very sad. Yeah. Her favorite song was " I Know My Redeemer Lives" Her doctor came to her funeral and she did live longer than they expected. Many others died before her and her Christian grandmother got to make friends in the hospital and minister to others. What if some people from that hospital end up in heaven because of that experience with her and her grandmother and her church family? I agree that religion can provide strength and consolation. Many religions and also some philosophies like Stoicism or Epicureanism do this as well. I think you have more compassion and justice than the character "God" as seen across the whole Bible, Thumbelina. I believe that the biblegod offers that peace that passes understanding. He is lovely and wonderful, I wish you can see that. Aren't you relieved that Bin Laden was caught? Would you have liked him to go unpunished for his crimes? Yes I am, and no, I would not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I know, I had an 18 year old friend die of cancer a few years ago after prayers were offered in her behalf. Maybe she would have lived if she was able to get natural treatments but she was under 18 at the time and the government prevents underage people from getting alternative treatments. They were feeding cancer patients such unhealthy crap in the hospital, foods that cancer loves to feed on. Big Pharma and survival of the fittest people sometimes do not allow people to use natural treatments because it's not lucrative to do so. It makes me love God's rule of being selfless even more. It makes sin and selfishness exceedingly evil in my eyes and it makes me yearn for God and eternal life without such pain. I am sorry to hear this. It is very sad. Yeah. Her favorite song was " I Know My Redeemer Lives" Her doctor came to her funeral and she did live longer than they expected. Many others died before her and her Christian grandmother got to make friends in the hospital and minister to others. What if some people from that hospital end up in heaven because of that experience with her and her grandmother and her church family? I agree that religion can provide strength and consolation. Many religions and also some philosophies like Stoicism or Epicureanism do this as well. I think you have more compassion and justice than the character "God" as seen across the whole Bible, Thumbelina. I believe that the biblegod offers that peace that passes understanding. He is lovely and wonderful, I wish you can see that. Aren't you relieved that Bin Laden was caught? Would you have liked him to go unpunished for his crimes? Yes I am, and no, I would not! Well, sin is a malignacy that cannot be tolerated. We are all infected and throughout the bible God has been showing this. He had to sometimes nip sin in the bud but He also wants to save MANY people. God wants to make sure His people are safe to be around His other sinless creatures. He cannot let sin go unpunished when people are not repentant. He also let the consequences of sin manifest itself so we will grow to hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You are the one making a positive clam. That was what you said to me regarding my claim that the reason dead people cant change their mind is that they no longer exist. I cited four hundred thousand examples with no evidence they exist or think. Care to comment? You have an implied premise that dead people can communicate with the living. Wrong. This is not true. You need to justify your assumption they can before you can ask why they aren't. You are guilty of using the strawman fallacy. Yes, you are still making a positive claim, which you obviously agree with since you switched to offering the evidence of the dead's silence for your positive claim. Which one of these words was positive - can't, "no longer", no? I did not agree that my claim was positive. Now are you going to answer my question. Are the 400,000 examples enough for you to agree with my claim or do you need more? If you need more examples then how many more? The fact that it would only take one verified counter example to make my claim wrong demonstrates that my claim is negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You are the one making a positive clam. That was what you said to me regarding my claim that the reason dead people cant change their mind is that they no longer exist. I cited four hundred thousand examples with no evidence they exist or think. Care to comment? You have an implied premise that dead people can communicate with the living. You need to justify your assumption they can before you can ask why they aren't. Yes, you are still making a positive claim, which you obviously agree with since you switched to offering the evidence of the dead's silence for your positive claim. Can pick up on this? You have an implied premise that dead people can communicate with the living. You need to justify your assumption they can before you can ask why they aren't. Is this not the claim we have for Jesus? Many xian folk claim (or so we are often told) they hear from dead relatives (in dreams mostly) and hear jesus speaking to them. It is not right to swing the positive proof around as the xian doctrine suggests that there is this soul that survives after death. MM is not claiming the dead speak to the living, they don't. The problem is that this soul cannot be defined properly and really related to self and perhaps self awareness. Tests have been conducted to see if there is a soul that leaves the body upon death and they came out negative. I remember seeing a documentary back in the 60's where it was refuted albeit with primitive instruments, a bed on four scales/balances and the needles did not even shudder at the point of death of a terminally ill patient. Now we have a plethora of NDE's and OOBE's which are not deaths as the brain was still alive. Tests were inconclusive and this phenomenon can be induced by brain stimulation. No one has EVER come back from the dead (except some vague story of some remote unknown village in Africa or India where fact checking is impossible) In a nutshell you folk believe these stories as you want it to be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You are the one making a positive clam. That was what you said to me regarding my claim that the reason dead people cant change their mind is that they no longer exist. I cited four hundred thousand examples with no evidence they exist or think. Care to comment? You have an implied premise that dead people can communicate with the living. Wrong. This is not true. You need to justify your assumption they can before you can ask why they aren't. You are guilty of using the strawman fallacy. Yes, you are still making a positive claim, which you obviously agree with since you switched to offering the evidence of the dead's silence for your positive claim. Which one of these words was positive - can't, "no longer", no? I did not agree that my claim was positive. Now are you going to answer my question. Are the 400,000 examples enough for you to agree with my claim or do you need more? If you need more examples then how many more? The fact that it would only take one verified counter example to make my claim wrong demonstrates that my claim is negative. Your claim is that our consciousness stops at death. This is a positive claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Honestly, the whole "you can't repent after death" and the "judged after death" comes from religions older than Christianity. Christians didn't invent it, and they can't explain why their God supposedly made it that way either. The Christians in this thread have been kind enough to provide scripture references for their doctrines. Can you please provide the proper citations for your claims about older religions. Maybe there is already a thread I could refer to. i.e. You're too lazy to look yourself. If you search for Zoroastrianism and their view on death and judgment, you'll find a lot of material explaining it. If you want specific quotes from their holy scriptures, you have to wait a bit since I need to do a proper search on the verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Why can't people repent after death? God made the rules. Why did he make them that way? Does the Bible explain why God made it that way? Yes. And what is the explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I find the evidence overwhelming and convincing. I believe without a shadow of a doubt there is an afterlife, satan is waring with God and the saints, hell exists, that the Creator of the universe is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and that Jesus of Nazareth is His Messiah. I have zero doubt about these facts. What you believe doesn't explain "why". So why that way instead of another way? You don't, now why do you suppose there is a difference between you and I. So why does God want you not to know but just believe before death instead of knowing and then believing? Why? What's in it for him? What's the gain? Is he a dick-head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Can you please provide evidence of some sort regarding your zoroastrian claims? Some articles for you to skim or skip completely so you can continue to overlook and disregard common knowledge: http://jacklaughlin.ca/readings/death_west/zoro.htm http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/after33.html http://www.hell-on-line.org/AboutZOR.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Aren't you relieved that Bin Laden was caught? Would you have liked him to go unpunished for his crimes? He will if he converted to Christianity and ask Jesus for forgiveness before he died. You don't know if he did, but he could have. In such case, he would not go to Hell, but to Heaven and dine with Jesus. And perhaps many of his victims never started to believe in Jesus, so they went to Hell. It's the Heavenly Lotto. Guess the numbers of the "Winning God" and go to Heaven if you guessed right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 He will if he converted to Christianity and ask Jesus for forgiveness before he died. You don't know if he did, but he could have. In such case, he would not go to Hell, but to Heaven and dine with Jesus. And perhaps many of his victims never started to believe in Jesus, so they went to Hell. It's the Heavenly Lotto. Guess the numbers of the "Winning God" and go to Heaven if you guessed right. Yeah. Just like Jeffrey Dahmer is waiting for you at the pearly gates now. Isn't that prospect exciting? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Yeah. Just like Jeffrey Dahmer is waiting for you at the pearly gates now. Isn't that prospect exciting? Yup. And Hitler, and the BTK killer (wasn't he active in a church when they arrested him?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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