Repenting After Death

[florduh]

Whew! I hope nobody is planning to pass the plate! Glory!

[Thumbelina]

Whew! I hope nobody is planning to pass the plate! Glory!

 

You and your riddles, what are talking about now Mr. House/Snark?

[florduh]

Preach it, Sister!

[Thumbelina]

Preach it, Sister!

 

I've been thinking about you, man and you have less years ahead of you than you have behind you. Do you want your death to be "it"?

[mymistake]

Preach it, Sister!

 

I've been thinking about you, man and you have less years ahead of you than you have behind you. Do you want your death to be "it"?

 

Let me guess. You are about to make fantastic promises and you have no objective evidence that these promises will come true. It's almost like we have heard this one before.

[florduh]

I've been thinking about you, man and you have less years ahead of you than you have behind you. Do you want your death to be "it"?

 

FEWER years.

 

I don't know any more about you than you know about me, but I will say this: I wouldn't trade one year of my life for ten of yours.

 

At least I won't die deluded.

 

That doesn't negate my hope to see you in the nude mud wrestling pit before I go...

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina said: I've been thinking about you, man and you have less years ahead of you than you have behind you. Do you want your death to be "it"?

 

FEWER years.

 

 

 

 

Yeah yeah yeah, so sue me! I thought I scared you away?

 

 

 

 

I don't know any more about you than you know about me, but I will say this: I wouldn't trade one year of my life for ten of yours.

At least I won't die deluded.

 

If you knew what I know you'd trade in a heartbeat!

 

 

That doesn't negate my hope to see you in the nude mud wrestling pit before I go...

 

Maybe you won't trade after all, you're following the vanity of your mind *raised eyebrow*

Look buddy, I know you're a seasoned citizen and you're not right in the head and all but I do believe you're a precious soul and it is my hope that you will see the light one day, m'kay?

[mymistake]

Maybe you won't trade after all, you're following the vanity of your mind *raised eyebrow*

Look buddy, I know you're a seasoned citizen and you're not right in the head and all but I do believe you're a precious soul and it is my hope that you will see the light one day, m'kay?

 

I would like to see this "light of day". Please lay out all the objective evidence for all to see. You do have objective evidence, right? It's clear as the light of day and could never be confused with being imaginary, right?

[centauri]

Thumbelina said: Hey Robotnik, once I posted I figured you'd come out of the woodwork.

Centauri said: You once again use the standard Christian procedure to spread subjective theological gibberish in forums.

When refuted and confronted, you go away for a few weeks, then come back and start your routine all over again, thinking people won't notice.

 

What's highlighted in red, I know you do that but d'you have to accuse me of doing what you do? Where you have standard Christian, I'd put 'standard skeptic'.

False and deceptive analogy on your part preacher.

I'm not in any Christian forums spreading my version of reality as "truth".

 

I go away sometimes for different reasons Mr. read the heart & mind of people/ Mr thinks he's God.

You're lying.

I've never claimed to be God at any time nor insinuated anything of the sort..

It also doesn't take divine inspiration to discern your procedure of using endless repetition in your attempts to jam your version of reality into the faces of people.

 

Sometimes there is physical troubles on my end and I don't get to respond. Sometimes I forget which thread or where I was responding. Eh and sometimes I temporarily give up on you ( talking to deaf ears ain't easy) but I guess there's a fondness for you and I believe about God and hell etc. and I don't want you to be lost so I come back.

How convenient for you.

When people including myself, call you to account for your "teachings", you can duck out of a thread and come back later to start the whole process all over again.

 

Thumbelina said: Repentance after death is NOT possible - the Bible says so.

 

Centauri said: Then Jesus was wasting his time preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison.

 

1 Peter 3:19-20

By which also he(Jesus) went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

Thumbelina said: See, that shows that you do NOT compare scripture with scripture and spiritual with spiritual and it's not that you aren't ABLE, you're just NOT WILLING.

 

Centauri said:This shows that you can only respond with more gibberish, pointing your accusing finger at anyone who exposes your "holy spirit" for what it is.....a subjective fairy tale spirit that lives exclusively inside your skull.

 

Ah my boy, the HS is available for whomever truly wants Him.

I'm not your boy, as much as that idea might appeal to you.

You manage to overlook the obvious, which is that you've done nothing to confirm that the Holy Spirit (whatever that is) exists or that it manifests itself based on the wants of humans.

Your statement makes about as much sense as this:

Santa Claus is available to anyone that really, really wants HIm.

 

Thumbelina said:The bible does NOT contradict itself, it says the dead know not anything and therefore they cannot repent.

Text without context is a pretext so please quit isolating verses, OK?

 

Centauri said:The Bible does contradict itself and you contradict the Bible repeatedly.

You blatantly ignore context on a routine basis.

 

What you said makes no sense, man and I do not contradict the bible, you're the one preaching an anti gospel.

 

You do contradict the Bible, and you're preaching an anti-God gospel that attempts to replace Yahweh with Jesus.

And even then you dilute it further by drifting off to follow Paul.

 

Thumbelina said: Let's start at verse 18:

 

18For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

 

19 By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

20Who formerly were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, by which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.

 

The HS preached to people in prison. Christ and the Spirit are ONE (character, purpose, love etc.)

 

Centauri said: This does nothing to solve your problem and in fact exposes it.

Jesus was wasting his time preaching to dead people if they could not repent.

 

Centauri dear, it is you that have the problem, the text clearly states that Jesus' gospel was preached to spiritually dead people (atheists & virtual atheists) via the Holy Spirit. That is a biblical doctrine, when people are not striving with God they are dead!

It's also biblical doctrine as stated in the Apostles' Creed that Jesus went to hell.

The text of 1 Peter 3 states that the spirits preached to were those who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

If they perished in the flood then they were physically dead.

They were now spirits in prison.

The burden of proof is on you to show from the text that they had never physically died.

Or, if you want to claim that the spirits in prison were only angels and couldn't really have been people, show from the account in Genesis that people were not primary targets of the flood.

 

Many people CHOSE to remain dead as the texts gave the example of the antediluvians who rejected salvation and only Noah and his family CHOSE to live or be alive.

You keep dodging the issue.

If these dead people couldn't repent then there would be no point in preaching to them.

If they couldn't be saved then there was no victory to be proclaimed.

 

Well, the bible describes people who are not responding to the wooing of the HS as dead and when one finally responds and accepts Jesus, the bible says they are alive.

Christ's disciples understand His analogies, Centauri and you are being TOO literal in your interpretations.

Show from the text of 1 Peter 3:19 that the spirits in prison were still alive physically.

If you can't, then you're in no position to be making claims about what should be taken literally and what shouldn't be taken literally.

By the way, should the account of creation in Genesis be taken literally?

 

"Jesus was ... preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison" <-- That teaching was made up by the Jesuits! They wanted to propagate their silly, mythological purgatory doctrine.

 

Centauri said: Excellent....you now lash out at fellow Christians when they don't meet your subjective standards.

The Jesuits had nothing to do with my use of these verses.

The verses clearly indicate that Jesus preached to people that were dead and were spirits in prison.

You've done nothing to change that.

 

Thumbelina:

I was not lashing out, I was passionately stating that the teaching is not a biblical one but was based on man made traditions, not inspired by the HS at all. You can be like the jesuits and the writers of Greek mythology and take those verses literally if you want. Literally dead people are literally dead and can't respond to squat!

You haven't established that the HS even exists much less confirmed what it inspires as proper teaching.

This goes right back to my original premise:

Your theology is typical for a believer.

It's a festival of SUBJECTIVE interpretations that cannot be proved.

You've extrapolated your personal opinions and whims into God-ordained "truth".

You can't prove a speck of it as being "truth", you can only assert it as being such.

You're so obtuse that you think repeating the same talking points over and over makes them true.

 

Once again, show from the text of 1 Peter 3:19 that the spirits in prison were not people that had physically died but were still living.

[centauri]

Thumbelina said: The wicked (dead or still living) cannot repent after everyone is judged.

 

Centauri said: Now you're moving the goalpost by adding the qualifier "cannot repent after everyone is judged".

So apparently they can repent after they're dead but not after being judged.

 

Thumbelina said: Nah, just stating what the entire bible says on the subject.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

^

After men die the next conscious thing they will know is when they are facing God in the judgment to see what they did in the body they had.

 

Centauri said: This still does not solve your problem and opens another can of worms for you to wallow in.

Jesus went and preached to spirits of the dead.

This was a useless and meaningless effort if these people could not repent.

Furthermore, Lazarus and others were resurrected from the dead, so they died more than once, which contradicts Heb 9:27.

Show from the text of John that Lazarus faced God for his judgment before he was awakened by Jesus to live again in his body.

 

Thumbelina:

I addressed what preaching to the dead means already.

All you did was define "dead" to mean whatever suits your needs.

 

Yeah, Lazarus died (the first death) twice. There are two types of deaths in the bible. The first death is the death that ALL of us are subjected to. We all start to die as soon as we are born, we are in the process of dying. Lazarus experienced this twice.

Then the contradiction with Heb 9:27 stands.

 

There is a second death described in the bible and that death is where spirits in prison CHOSE to remain dead and they will subsequently be consumed/devoured by God's Holy presence which to them will be utter hell or hellfire as it were.

You linked to Deut 4:24 , which says nothing about spirits in prison nor does it say anything about choosing to remain dead or a second death.

It pertains to the worship of idols.

 

Lazurus' name was written down in the book of life, he did nothing to have his name stricken off of that book.

God did not begin examining the books at that time. The lives of humans are recorded in books and the dead remain asleep in the graves until the resurrection.

Unless they are raised from the dead to live twice, which contradicts Heb 9:27 and your earlier claim about death.

 

Thumbelina said: The ones who get marked in the right hand are basically PERPETUAL secularists, atheists, ignostics, agnostics and lone ranger believers who had their heads in the dirt and did not resist the devil and actively follow God.

 

Robotnik, um, Centauri said: Do you include yourself in this mix of "heads in the dirt" people?

You've tossed aside the teachings in the Hebrew scriptures in favor of the revisionist theology put forth by the Christian cult.

You also haven't established that you actively follow the Bible God or defined what a "lone ranger believer" is.

 

Thumbelina said: My head is above ground, matey. Christianity is in harmony with the Hebrew scriptures.

 

Centauri said: No it is not.

 

Yes it is!

The harmony you declare is fake.

It's a fabrication and a sham.

Christianity revises and edits the Hebrew scriptures into a new theology.

 

I'll repeat this for the sake of lurkers.

Show where a human is a valid sacrifice for sin under the law of God.

Show where the Hebrew scriptures define the new covenant as being based on the blood of a human sacrifice.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where an expected king messiah would be the end of the law.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where a king messiah would require a second coming thousands of years after his first visit, to accomplish his tasks and sit on the throne of David.

[centauri]

Centauri said: Every time this lie has been exposed you pull one of your vanishing acts and then return weeks later pretending that the posts never existed.

 

Well maybe you can tell me how to talk to likable people with didactic reasoning?

(skeptics do that A LOT! )

The queen of instructors and theological lectures complains about didactic skeptics!

 

You have repeatedly used that type of reasoning when I tried to talk with you, it's like talking to a robot!

Praise from Caesar.

The irony-o-meter just exploded.

 

I reckon you're scared to look at the texts objectively, ya chicken, ya!!! (sorry Centauri, you know subtlety is not my forte and you know I luv you )

As I said, I know you are able to look at the texts and I think you can go back and forth in scriptures to eventually get the gospel but you SEEM scared to for some reason. I know you had bad experiences with Christianity before but dang dude, at least look at the texts objectively!

Translation:

I will impart to you my great wisdom and truth but only as long as you conform to my version of reality.

The word "objective" means whatever I say it means.

 

It reminds of me of Humpty Dumpty from Alice in Wonderland:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

 

Centauri said: From past examples:

Show where a human is a valid sacrifice for sin under the law of God.

Show where the Hebrew scriptures define the new covenant as being based on the blood of a human sacrifice.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where an expected king messiah would be the end of the law.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where a king messiah would require a second coming thousands of years after his first visit, to accomplish his tasks and sit on the throne of David.

 

Thumbelina:

I wanted to show you (remember I started a thread to chat with you?) but the bible has MANY interlocking doctrines and you are not looking at the bible the way it stipulates that it should be looked at and that's why I don't bother sometimes and because I like you and you do raise good questions and I attempt to answer but then you start doing the robotic, 'I'm debukin' and not listenin' ' thing again.

This is a real gem of apologetics.

You proclaim the Bible to be in harmony and yet have to resort to the standard "you don't know how to read and understand it" excuse to cover up the glaring problems.

You're like a used car salesperson that when asked to see the odometer on a car they're trying to sell, declares that the customer needs to take special lessons from the salesperson on how to read it.

It doesn't say 100,000 miles, it really says 10,000 miles.

 

You have to take that I "actively follow the Bible God", on faith, my dear

 

Centauri said: I wouldn't trust you anymore than I trust a telemarketer that makes cold calls to little old ladies, asking them for their social security number so they can claim a prize.

 

Don't worry darlin', I'm prayin' that you'll eventually listen to the HS and you can get the reward of eternal life.

This is the HS that you can't establish as existing outside your mind.

 

Thumbelina said: So, you're curious as to what a lone ranger believer is ? It's one of those people who forsakes the assembling with other believers in order to cherry pick doctrines to suit their fancy.

 

Centauri said: What makes you think cherry picking doctrines is limited to individual believers and isn't practiced by large congregations?

 

Did I say that large congregations don't/won't cherry pick doctrines? I was talking about lone ranger Christians.

Then lone ranger Christians are not any less Christian than those that gather in large congregations.

 

Thumbelina said: Did the firstborns of the wicked in Egypt get another chance to live and then repent when they did not have the blood over their door posts? Rebellious people do not love the truth and they will not want to ( and therefore choose not to ) repent.

 

Centauri said: How do you know that these people were not being held in the prison Jesus went to and preached in?

 

Thumbelina said: Cuz the bible says the dead are asleep and they did not ascend to heaven or go to hell because hell will be this whole earth on fire and we're still here. Hell will be God's glory burning up the wicked and this bloody ( literally) earth.

 

Then you deny that Jesus went to a prison and preached to the spirits of dead people, which means you deny one set of verses in favor of another. You're a cherry picker.

 

Thumbelina:

... and you're a tangent goer! I'm preaching to you dead spirits right now (according to what the bible teaches) but I have to pray earnestly for the HS to reach your naughty ( scared in your case, eh? ) hides but ultimately it's your CHOICE to accept or reject the gospel.

You're trying to equate living people as being the spirits in 1 Peter 3:19.

You need to establish that they never died from the text.

[mymistake]

I keep asking Christians to show me the objective evidence of this thing that is "as plain as day" and that of which all creation testifies. I keep getting ignored. The only answers I get are excuses and nothing.

 

Hmmmmmmm . . . . I wonder if that reflects upon their claims.

[bornagainathiest]

Thumbelina said: I've been thinking about you, man and you have less years ahead of you than you have behind you. Do you want your death to be "it"?

 

FEWER years.

Yeah yeah yeah, so sue me! I thought I scared you away?

 

I don't know any more about you than you know about me, but I will say this: I wouldn't trade one year of my life for ten of yours.

At least I won't die deluded.

 

If you knew what I know you'd trade in a heartbeat!

 

That doesn't negate my hope to see you in the nude mud wrestling pit before I go...

 

Maybe you won't trade after all, you're following the vanity of your mind *raised eyebrow*

Look buddy, I know you're a seasoned citizen and you're not right in the head and all but I do believe you're a precious soul and it is my hope that you will see the light one day, m'kay?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well now, this is very odd Thumbelina!

 

You thought you'd scared Florduh away? Very odd, because I thought I was the one who'd scared YOU away.

I even wrote about it in my profile... "It looks like this Lion ate Thumbelina too, but she will NEVER, EVER admit the fact! "

 

Yes, wasn't it here...

http://www.ex-christ...es/page__st__80 ...in #88

 

and here...

http://www.ex-christ...s/page__st__100 ...in #116

 

and here...

http://www.ex-christ...s/page__st__120 ...in #133

 

...that this Lion killed and ate your Christian flesh?

 

And didn't you recently write... "I divide scripture correctly." ...hmmm?

 

Such a proud boast! Well, here's some scripture that seems to fit your arrogant mind-set.

 

Proverbs 16:18

Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.

 

Yep! You set yourself up for a fall.

You did so by giving yourself the glory. Did you say that you divide scripture correctly... by the guidance of God?

Did you do right and give honor to God or were you just puffing yourself up and using His word to feed your overblown ego?

 

Well, fact is Thumbelina - you fell.

You were completely wrong about Revelation 1:13 - just as you wrong about Repentance After Death.

Deal with it.

 

BAA.

[mymistake]

Well maybe you can tell me how to talk to likable people with didactic reasoning? (skeptics do that A LOT! ) You have repeatedly used that type of reasoning when I tried to talk with you, it's like talking to a robot! I reckon you're scared to look at the texts objectively, ya chicken, ya!!! (sorry Centauri, you know subtlety is not my forte and you know I luv you )

As I said, I know you are able to look at the texts and I think you can go back and forth in scriptures to eventually get the gospel but you SEEM scared to for some reason. I know you had bad experiences with Christianity before but dang dude, at least look at the texts objectively!

 

Wow. A woman who reads the Bible as if it is a personal message from a being whose traits mean it cannot exist and contradict the book itself, and this message must be the Truth, and this message contains a plan for her life so that she can spend eternity with this oxymoron of a mythical being; that woman is asking someone else to look at the Bible objectively. Really?

 

What do you know about looking at the texts objectively?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Hey Robotnik, once I posted I figured you'd come out of the woodwork.

 

Centauri said: You once again use the standard Christian procedure to spread subjective theological gibberish in forums.

When refuted and confronted, you go away for a few weeks, then come back and start your routine all over again, thinking people won't notice.

 

Thumbelina said: What's highlighted in red, I know you do that but d'you have to accuse me of doing what you do? Where you have standard Christian, I'd put 'standard skeptic'.

 

 

Centauri said: False and deceptive analogy on your part preacher.

 

I'm not in any Christian forums spreading my version of reality as "truth".

 

 

Thumbelina: No, not false, from a spiritual perspective you are spreading falsehood as truth and you're on your way to perdition ( this explains 1 Peter 3:19, you Centauri are in prison even though you think you are free and running around here not listenin' but debunkin'. The reason for being in prison or a captive is because the Source of life is being rejected) and you're encouraging others to follow you.

 

..............

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: I go away sometimes for different reasons Mr. read the heart & mind of people/ Mr thinks he's God.

 

 

Centauri said: You're lying.

I've never claimed to be God at any time nor insinuated anything of the sort..

It also doesn't take divine inspiration to discern your procedure of using endless repetition in your attempts to jam your version of reality into the faces of people.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I'm sassin' you Robotnik, you are playing God and His Word by attempting to read my heart/mind. It was an expression, man, relax.

..................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Repentance after death is NOT possible - the Bible says so.

 

Centauri said: Then Jesus was wasting his time preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison.

 

1 Peter 3:19-20

By which also he(Jesus) went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

Thumbelina said: See, that shows that you do NOT compare scripture with scripture and spiritual with spiritual and it's not that you aren't ABLE, you're just NOT WILLING.

 

Centauri said:This shows that you can only respond with more gibberish, pointing your accusing finger at anyone who exposes your "holy spirit" for what it is.....a subjective fairy tale spirit that lives exclusively inside your skull.

 

Thumbelina said: Ah my boy, the HS is available for whomever truly wants Him.

 

Centauri said: I'm not your boy, as much as that idea might appeal to you.

 

Thumbelina: You're getting feisty, it's your vivid imagination again isn't it? I'm a vegetarian so you don't have to fear me harming you, OK?

 

 

 

 

 

Centauri said: You manage to overlook the obvious, which is that you've done nothing to confirm that the Holy Spirit (whatever that is) exists or that it manifests itself based on the wants of humans. ...

 

 

Thumbelina: God does not give the HS because of the whims of man, He gives the HS to a sincere person who is WILLING to follow Him. -->

 

... and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to them that obey him. Acts 5:32

 

 

 

 

......................

 

 

Thumbelina said:The bible does NOT contradict itself, it says the dead know not anything and therefore they cannot repent.

Text without context is a pretext so please quit isolating verses, OK?

 

Centauri said:The Bible does contradict itself and you contradict the Bible repeatedly.

You blatantly ignore context on a routine basis.

 

Thumbelina said: What you said makes no sense, man and I do not contradict the bible, you're the one preaching an anti gospel.

 

 

Centauri said: You do contradict the Bible, and you're preaching an anti-God gospel that attempts to replace Yahweh with Jesus.

And even then you dilute it further by drifting off to follow Paul.

 

Thumbelina: I still say I do not contradict the bible. The bible is designed to draw people who want God and not repel them. Your version is designed to repel them and cause them to be lost.

 

 

 

 

.............

 

 

Thumbelina said: Let's start at verse 18:

 

 

 

 

18For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

 

19 By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

20Who formerly were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, by which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.

 

The HS preached to people in prison. Christ and the Spirit are ONE (character, purpose, love etc.)

 

Centauri said: This does nothing to solve your problem and in fact exposes it.

Jesus was wasting his time preaching to dead people if they could not repent.

 

Thumbelina said: Centauri dear, it is you that have the problem, the text clearly states that Jesus' gospel was preached to spiritually dead people (atheists & virtual atheists) via the Holy Spirit. That is a biblical doctrine, when people are not striving with God they are dead!

 

 

Centauri said: It's also biblical doctrine as stated in the Apostles' Creed that Jesus went to hell.

The text of 1 Peter 3 states that the spirits preached to were those who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

If they perished in the flood then they were physically dead.

They were now spirits in prison.

The burden of proof is on you to show from the text that they had never physically died.

Or, if you want to claim that the spirits in prison were only angels and couldn't really have been people, show from the account in Genesis that people were not primary targets of the flood.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Centauri, all you are doing is preaching an anti gospel (good news). You, like MANY others, are putting into the text meanings that are simply NOT there! Instead of using biblical exegesis you are using anti biblical eisegesis ( putting private interpretations in that text is the result of the early apostate church blending Christianity with paganism and inventing purgatory doctrines and the like; beliefs that God is a torturer and needs to be appeased. You are just regurgitating those erroneous doctrines). Look at the texts AGAIN, it says that the people were being preached to WHILE the ark was being prepared. Were the antediluvians killed off before the flood WHILE the ark was being prepared? Hell is also the grave but in the CONTEXT in 1 Peter 3, the text says nothing about hell! ( a place of burning )It mentions spirits in prison, it's a biblical ANALOGY.

 

...................

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Many people CHOSE to remain dead as the texts gave the example of the antediluvians who rejected salvation and only Noah and his family CHOSE to live or be alive.

 

Centauri said: You keep dodging the issue.

If these dead people couldn't repent then there would be no point in preaching to them.

If they couldn't be saved then there was no victory to be proclaimed.

 

 

Thumbelina: Of course they were alive and could have been saved, they could have gone into the ark with Noah and his family! I even followed you and mixed up the biblical analogies too, the bible did not say the people were dead, it said they were spirits in prison.

 

Example, David wrote this: Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me. Psalm 142:7

 

Was David dead when he wrote that Psalm? It's an expression, Centauri. It does not mean a disembodied ethereal entity, a soul is a person, a spirit can be a person too, the context determines what type of spirit it is. In 1 Peter 3 the spirits in prison were alive when they were being preached to. I repeatedly told you that the biblical writers use figures of speech, in this case it would seem that the biblical writer used a synecdoche, where a part is used to represent the whole, in 1 Peter 3:19 spirit/breath represented whole people. You know in the bible it says God gave the breath of life and man became a living soul. An ex- atheist pastor showed us where the flood was actually creation in reverse (earth reverted to being without form and void, God took back His breath etc.) maybe the biblical writer using spirit/breath has something to do with that, those writers were geniuses!

 

Here's a bible commentator that supports what I have been saying:

 

 

 

By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1 Peter 3:19

 

 

 

Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

 

Unto the spirits in prison - The inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by his just law to destruction. But their punishment was delayed to see if they would repent; and the long-suffering of God waited one hundred and twenty years, which were granted to them for this purpose; during which time, as criminals tried and convicted, they are represented as being in prison - detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance or the expiration of the respite, that the punishment pronounced might be inflicted. This I have long believed to be the sense of this difficult passage, and no other that I have seen is so consistent with the whole scope of the place. That the Spirit of God did strive with, convict, and reprove the antediluvians, is evident from Genesis 6:3 : My Spirit shall not always strive with man, forasmuch as he is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years. And it was by this Spirit that Noah became a preacher of righteousness, and condemned that ungodly world, ...

 

 

.............

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Well, the bible describes people who are not responding to the wooing of the HS as dead and when one finally responds and accepts Jesus, the bible says they are alive.

Christ's disciples understand His analogies, Centauri and you are being TOO literal in your interpretations.

 

Centauri said: Show from the text of 1 Peter 3:19 that the spirits in prison were still alive physically.

If you can't, then you're in no position to be making claims about what should be taken literally and what shouldn't be taken literally.

By the way, should the account of creation in Genesis be taken literally?

 

 

Thumbelina: I already showed you above what the texts say. As I said, in this text I should not have used the analogy of people being dead but people being in prison. I was addressing your tangents

 

 

....................

 

 

Thumbelina said: "Jesus was ... preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison" <-- That teaching was made up by the Jesuits! They wanted to propagate their silly, mythological purgatory doctrine.

 

Centauri said: Excellent....you now lash out at fellow Christians when they don't meet your subjective standards.

The Jesuits had nothing to do with my use of these verses.

The verses clearly indicate that Jesus preached to people that were dead and were spirits in prison.

You've done nothing to change that.

 

Thumbelina said: I was not lashing out, I was passionately stating that the teaching is not a biblical one but was based on man made traditions, not inspired by the HS at all. You can be like the Jesuits and the writers of Greek mythology and take those verses literally if you want. Literally dead people are literally dead and can't respond to squat!

 

 

Centauri said: You haven't established that the HS even exists much less confirmed what it inspires as proper teaching.

 

 

This goes right back to my original premise:

Your theology is typical for a believer.

It's a festival of SUBJECTIVE interpretations that cannot be proved.

You've extrapolated your personal opinions and whims into God-ordained "truth".

You can't prove a speck of it as being "truth", you can only assert it as being such.

You're so obtuse that you think repeating the same talking points over and over makes them true.

 

Once again, show from the text of 1 Peter 3:19 that the spirits in prison were not people that had physically died but were still living.

 

 

Thumbelina: Oh the HS does exist He helps me to understand the gospel, you should try submitting to Him sometime

Your theology is typical for an unbeliever.

It's a festival of SUBJECTIVE interpretations that cannot be proved.

You've extrapolated your personal opinions and whims into antichrst-like"truth".

You can't prove a speck of it as being "truth", you can only assert it as being such.

You're so obtuse that you think repeating the same talking points over and over makes them true.

 

I already discussed 1 Peter 3:19 , several times.

[mymistake]

Thumbelina: No, not false, from a spiritual perspective you are spreading falsehood as truth and you're on your way to perdition ( this explains 1 Peter 3:19, you Centauri are in prison even though you think you are free and running around here not listenin' but debunkin'. The reason for being in prison or a captive is because the Source of life is being rejected) and encouraging others to follow you.

 

Got any objective evidence to back up any of your assertions?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The wicked (dead or still living) cannot repent after everyone is judged.

 

Centauri said: Now you're moving the goalpost by adding the qualifier "cannot repent after everyone is judged".

So apparently they can repent after they're dead but not after being judged.

 

Thumbelina said: Nah, just stating what the entire bible says on the subject.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

^

After men die the next conscious thing they will know is when they are facing God in the judgment to see what they did in the body they had.

 

Centauri said: This still does not solve your problem and opens another can of worms for you to wallow in.

Jesus went and preached to spirits of the dead.

This was a useless and meaningless effort if these people could not repent.

Furthermore, Lazarus and others were resurrected from the dead, so they died more than once, which contradicts Heb 9:27.

Show from the text of John that Lazarus faced God for his judgment before he was awakened by Jesus to live again in his body.

 

Thumbelina said: I addressed what preaching to the dead means already.

 

Centauri said: All you did was define "dead" to mean whatever suits your needs.

 

Thumbelina: I am not the one doing that, you are!

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Yeah, Lazarus died (the first death) twice. There are two types of deaths in the bible. The first death is the death that ALL of us are subjected to. We all start to die as soon as we are born, we are in the process of dying. Lazarus experienced this twice.

 

Centauri said: Then the contradiction with Heb 9:27 stands.

 

Thumbelina: It's not a contradiction, you have misunderstanding of certain doctrines and it causes you to see the texts as contradictory.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: There is a second death described in the bible and that death is where spirits in prison CHOSE to remain dead and they will subsequently be consumed/devoured by God's Holy presence which to them will be utter hell or hellfire as it were.

 

 

Centauri said: You linked to Deut 4:24 , which says nothing about spirits in prison nor does it say anything about choosing to remain dead or a second death.

It pertains to the worship of idols.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: I was preaching, Deut 4:24 shows that God's presence can be hell for sinners.

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Lazurus' name was written down in the book of life, he did nothing to have his name stricken off of that book.

God did not begin examining the books at that time. The lives of humans are recorded in books and the dead remain asleep in the graves until the resurrection.

 

 

Centauri said: Unless they are raised from the dead to live twice, which contradicts Heb 9:27 and your earlier claim about death.

 

 

 

Thumbelina: Nah, their info will still be recorded in heaven. Heb 9:27 is talking judgment language, you are being QUITE literalistic. In the bible there were resurrections, Elijah raised up a boy and that boy would have died twice but the biblical writers knew that the first death means the physical death before one faces judgment, virtually everyone will face that death but the second death is ONLY for the wicked.

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The ones who get marked in the right hand are basically PERPETUAL secularists, atheists, ignostics, agnostics and lone ranger believers who had their heads in the dirt and did not resist the devil and actively follow God.

 

Robotnik, um, Centauri said: Do you include yourself in this mix of "heads in the dirt" people?

You've tossed aside the teachings in the Hebrew scriptures in favor of the revisionist theology put forth by the Christian cult.

You also haven't established that you actively follow the Bible God or defined what a "lone ranger believer" is.

 

Thumbelina said: My head is above ground, matey. Christianity is in harmony with the Hebrew scriptures.

 

Centauri said: No it is not.

 

Thumbelina said: Yes it is!

 

 

Centauri said: The harmony you declare is fake.

It's a fabrication and a sham.

Christianity revises and edits the Hebrew scriptures into a new theology.

 

I'll repeat this for the sake of lurkers.

Show where a human is a valid sacrifice for sin under the law of God.

Show where the Hebrew scriptures define the new covenant as being based on the blood of a human sacrifice.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where an expected king messiah would be the end of the law.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where a king messiah would require a second coming thousands of years after his first visit, to accomplish his tasks and sit on the throne of David.

 

Thumbelina: As I said before, I am willing to show you but you ain't listenin', just debunkin'. It's not a conversation/chat. I wish it was and can be.

A fellow believer describes what skeptics do:

 

 

"In all honesty - many on this site do claim to know the Bible. But in my conversations, I have come across sheer lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, lousy hermeneutics, shockingly superficial & wooden literalistic interpretations, failure to trace doctrines throughout the Bible, inability to understand context, failure to take into account genre, etc."

 

^

 

He said it so well and I agree, a person has to be WILLING to do those things in order to understand the gospel and you don't do that, darlin'. I really do think you are capable of it though.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

 

 

Centauri said: Every time this lie has been exposed you pull one of your vanishing acts and then return weeks later pretending that the posts never existed.

 

Thumbelina said: Well maybe you can tell me how to talk to likable people with didactic reasoning?

(skeptics do that A LOT! )

 

 

Centauri said: The queen of instructors and theological lectures complains about didactic skeptics!

 

Thumbelina: Hey, hey, hey, the bible has powerful words and repetition is for intensification.

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: You have repeatedly used that type of reasoning when I tried to talk with you, it's like talking to a robot!

 

Centauri said: Praise from Caesar.

 

The irony-o-meter just exploded.

 

 

Thumbelina: I knew you'd say something like that

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: I reckon you're scared to look at the texts objectively, ya chicken, ya!!! (sorry Centauri, you know subtlety is not my forte and you know I luv you )

As I said, I know you are able to look at the texts and I think you can go back and forth in scriptures to eventually get the gospel but you SEEM scared to for some reason. I know you had bad experiences with Christianity before but dang dude, at least look at the texts objectively!

 

 

Centauri said: Translation:

I will impart to you my great wisdom and truth but only as long as you conform to my version of reality.

The word "objective" means whatever I say it means.

 

It reminds of me of Humpty Dumpty from Alice in Wonderland:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

 

 

Thumbelina: Well look at you, being as sassy as can be I told you many times that the biblical teachings are not of private interpretations. They are not my subjective interpretations.

 

 

 

 

 

Centauri said: From past examples:

Show where a human is a valid sacrifice for sin under the law of God.

Show where the Hebrew scriptures define the new covenant as being based on the blood of a human sacrifice.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where an expected king messiah would be the end of the law.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where a king messiah would require a second coming thousands of years after his first visit, to accomplish his tasks and sit on the throne of David.

 

Thumbelina said: I wanted to show you (remember I started a thread to chat with you?) but the bible has MANY interlocking doctrines and you are not looking at the bible the way it stipulates that it should be looked at and that's why I don't bother sometimes and because I like you and you do raise good questions and I attempt to answer but then you start doing the robotic, 'I'm debukin' and not listenin' ' thing again.

 

 

Centauri said: This is a real gem of apologetics.

 

You proclaim the Bible to be in harmony and yet have to resort to the standard "you don't know how to read and understand it" excuse to cover up the glaring problems.

You're like a used car salesperson that when asked to see the odometer on a car they're trying to sell, declares that the customer needs to take special lessons from the salesperson on how to read it.

It doesn't say 100,000 miles, it really says 10,000 miles.

 

Thumbelina: Admit you were wrong about the 1 Peter 3 text, show that you don't just take doctrines from one set of believers in order to pit them against another set of believers' doctrines. You do not use sola scriptura, you rely on eisegeis in order to discredit the harmonious biblical teachings. How am I to reason with you when your fear seemingly makes you behave that way?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Did the firstborns of the wicked in Egypt get another chance to live and then repent when they did not have the blood over their door posts? Rebellious people do not love the truth and they will not want to ( and therefore choose not to ) repent.

 

Centauri said: How do you know that these people were not being held in the prison Jesus went to and preached in?

 

Thumbelina said: Cuz the bible says the dead are asleep and they did not ascend to heaven or go to hell because hell will be this whole earth on fire and we're still here. Hell will be God's glory burning up the wicked and this bloody ( literally) earth.

 

Centauri said: Then you deny that Jesus went to a prison and preached to the spirits of dead people, which means you deny one set of verses in favor of another. You're a cherry picker.

 

Thumbelina said: ... and you're a tangent goer! I'm preaching to you dead spirits right now (according to what the bible teaches) but I have to pray earnestly for the HS to reach your naughty ( scared in your case, eh? ) hides but ultimately it's your CHOICE to accept or reject the gospel.

 

Centauri said: ou're trying to equate living people as being the spirits in 1 Peter 3:19.

You need to establish that they never died from the text.

 

 

Thumbelina: I did, I did, I did!!!! You need to be WILLING to let Jesus put the spittle and clay in your eyes for you to see it! --> John 7:17

[mymistake]

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The wicked (dead or still living) cannot repent after everyone is judged.

 

Centauri said: Now you're moving the goalpost by adding the qualifier "cannot repent after everyone is judged".

So apparently they can repent after they're dead but not after being judged.

 

Thumbelina said: Nah, just stating what the entire bible says on the subject.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

^

After men die the next conscious thing they will know is when they are facing God in the judgment to see what they did in the body they had.

 

Centauri said: This still does not solve your problem and opens another can of worms for you to wallow in.

Jesus went and preached to spirits of the dead.

This was a useless and meaningless effort if these people could not repent.

Furthermore, Lazarus and others were resurrected from the dead, so they died more than once, which contradicts Heb 9:27.

Show from the text of John that Lazarus faced God for his judgment before he was awakened by Jesus to live again in his body.

 

Thumbelina said: I addressed what preaching to the dead means already.

 

Centauri said: All you did was define "dead" to mean whatever suits your needs.

 

Thumbelina: I am not the one doing that, you are!

 

Thumbelina why do you bear false witness? Isn't it a sin against God? Don't you think God knows what you just did?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

You still fussing? I still give you a Christianly hug.

[mymistake]

 

 

You still fussing? I still give you a Christianly hug.

 

I would prefer that you not lie and address the issues raised. Am I asking too much?

 

A dog dead on the side of the road is something we have all seen at some point. We have seen dead fish floating in a fish bowl. We see dead cats. We have seen dead birds. We have purchased pieces of dead cow and dead pig, cooked them and eaten them. Some of us have even had dead loved ones.

 

When something is dead it cannot hear. The evidence of this is staggering. Dead things don't hear. This is well established. Humans through hard work have expanded our technology so that in special situations we can bring the dead back to life. So in those few cases someone who was dead can hear again if they are restored to life. But dead things can't hear. So how can a dead person preach? How can a dead person preach to dead people? You must change the meaning of dead or else you claim is crazy.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

You still fussing? I still give you a Christianly hug.

 

...

A dog dead on the side of the road is something we have all seen at some point. We have seen dead fish floating in a fish bowl. We see dead cats. We have seen dead birds. We have purchased pieces of dead cow and dead pig, cooked them and eaten them. Some of us have even had dead loved ones.

 

When something is dead it cannot hear. The evidence of this is staggering. Dead things don't hear. This is well established. Humans through hard work have expanded our technology so that in special situations we can bring the dead back to life. So in those few cases someone who was dead can hear again if they are restored to life. But dead things can't hear.

 

 

Agreed!

 

 

 

So how can a dead person preach? How can a dead person preach to dead people? You must change the meaning of dead or else you claim is crazy.

 

 

 

The text says the HS via Noah, preached to disobedient, rebellious people. The text was saying that Jesus died that we might live and this good news ( that Jesus provided a way for them/us to escape death ) was told to the people in Noah's time.

[mymistake]

The text says the HS via Noah, preached to disobedient, rebellious people. The text was saying that Jesus died that we might live and this good news ( that Jesus provided a way for them/us to escape death ) was told to the people in Noah's time.

 

Doesn't it bother you that the text keeps mentioning this time that never existed?

[centauri]

Centauri said: False and deceptive analogy on your part preacher.

 

I'm not in any Christian forums spreading my version of reality as "truth".

 

Thumbelina: No, not false, from a spiritual perspective you are spreading falsehood as truth and you're on your way to perdition ( this explains 1 Peter 3:19, you Centauri are in prison even though you think you are free and running around here not listenin' but debunkin'. The reason for being in prison or a captive is because the Source of life is being rejected) and encouraging others to follow you.

It is false.

You haven't established what truth is.

All you ever do is bomb this forum with your opinions/assertions and claim them as truth.

I'm not in Christian forums doing what you do.

That's why your analogy is false.

 

Thumbelina said: I go away sometimes for different reasons Mr. read the heart & mind of people/ Mr thinks he's God.

 

Centauri said: You're lying.

I've never claimed to be God at any time nor insinuated anything of the sort..

It also doesn't take divine inspiration to discern your procedure of using endless repetition in your attempts to jam your version of reality into the faces of people.

 

Thumbelina: I'm sassin' you Robotnik, you are playing God and His Word by attempting to read my heart/mind. It was an expression, man, relax.

You're playing God by attempting to tell others they need your version of God.

 

Centauri said: You manage to overlook the obvious, which is that you've done nothing to confirm that the Holy Spirit (whatever that is) exists or that it manifests itself based on the wants of humans. ...

 

Thumbelina: God does not give the HS because of the whims of man, He gives the HS to a sincere person who is WILLING to follow Him. -->

 

... and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to them that obey him. Acts 5:32

Quoting Acts doesn't confirm that the HS exists, nor have you established that you obey God.

 

Thumbelina said:The bible does NOT contradict itself, it says the dead know not anything and therefore they cannot repent.

Text without context is a pretext so please quit isolating verses, OK?

 

Centauri said:The Bible does contradict itself and you contradict the Bible repeatedly.

You blatantly ignore context on a routine basis.

 

Thumbelina said: What you said makes no sense, man and I do not contradict the bible, you're the one preaching an anti gospel.

 

Centauri said: You do contradict the Bible, and you're preaching an anti-God gospel that attempts to replace Yahweh with Jesus.

And even then you dilute it further by drifting off to follow Paul.

 

Thumbelina: I still say I do not contradict the bible. The bible is designed to draw people who want God and not repel them. Your version is designed to repel them and cause them to be lost.

That's all you ever do.....repeat yourself endlessly with your assertions and claims, hoping to beat people here into submission.

 

Thumbelina said: Let's start at verse 18:

18For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

 

19 By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

20Who formerly were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, by which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.

 

The HS preached to people in prison. Christ and the Spirit are ONE (character, purpose, love etc.)

 

Centauri said: This does nothing to solve your problem and in fact exposes it.

Jesus was wasting his time preaching to dead people if they could not repent.

 

Thumbelina said: Centauri dear, it is you that have the problem, the text clearly states that Jesus' gospel was preached to spiritually dead people (atheists & virtual atheists) via the Holy Spirit. That is a biblical doctrine, when people are not striving with God they are dead!

 

Centauri said: It's also biblical doctrine as stated in the Apostles' Creed that Jesus went to hell.

The text of 1 Peter 3 states that the spirits preached to were those who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

If they perished in the flood then they were physically dead.

They were now spirits in prison.

The burden of proof is on you to show from the text that they had never physically died.

Or, if you want to claim that the spirits in prison were only angels and couldn't really have been people, show from the account in Genesis that people were not primary targets of the flood.

 

Thumbelina: Centauri, all you are doing is preaching an anti gospel (good news). You, like MANY others, are putting into the text meanings that are simply NOT there! Instead of using biblical exegesis you are using anti biblical eisegesis ( putting private interpretations in that text is the result of the early apostate church blending Christianity with paganism and inventing purgatory doctrines and the like; beliefs that God is a torturer and needs to be appeased.

And this is the crux of your preaching.

You make assertions over and over again, claiming that anyone who doesn't lick your boots is wrong.

You hope to beat all others into submission by mere repetition.

But that door swings both ways.

You pratice eisegesis, putting your personal spin on texts, making them conform to your desires and whims.

[centauri]

You are just regurgitating those erroneous doctrines). Look at the texts AGAIN, it says that the people were being preached to WHILE the ark was being prepared. Were the antediluvians killed off before the flood WHILE the ark was being prepared? Hell is also the grave but in the CONTEXT in 1 Peter 3, the text says nothing about hell! ( a place of burning )It mentions spirits in prison, it's a biblical ANALOGY.

Right back at you preacher.

You are just regurgitating your erroneous whims and speculations.

 

It makes no difference whether Jesus went to hell or went to a holding tank prison.

These spirits were those of the dead, regardless of whether they died prior to or during the flood.

He preached to dead people.

There would be no point in preaching to the spirits of dead people if victory couldn't be proclaimed to them.

 

The Apostles' Creed says that Jesus went to hell, or descended to the dead.

You haven't proved that it's false, all you've done is to claim you're right and the doctrine is wrong.

Your assertions are no more valid that those of other theologians.

 

Thumbelina said: Many people CHOSE to remain dead as the texts gave the example of the antediluvians who rejected salvation and only Noah and his family CHOSE to live or be alive.

 

Centauri said: You keep dodging the issue.

If these dead people couldn't repent then there would be no point in preaching to them.

If they couldn't be saved then there was no victory to be proclaimed.

 

Thumbelina: Of course they were alive and could have been saved, they could have gone into the ark with Noah and his family! I even followed you and mixed up the biblical analogies too, the bible did not say the people were dead, it said they were spirits in prison.

They didn't go into the ark and died.

Their spirits were residing in the prison Jesus descended to.

If you want to pretend that people don't die then cite the text from Genesis that says people didn't die in a flood that was designed to wipe them out by ending their lives.

 

Example, David wrote this: Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me. Psalm 142:7

 

Was David dead when he wrote that Psalm? It's an expression, Centauri.

Show from the text of Genesis that people didn't physically die in the flood.

What Psalms did the disobedient people living at the time of Noah write?

Chapter and verse please.

 

It does not mean a disembodied ethereal entity, a soul is a person, a spirit can be a person too, the context determines what type of spirit it is. In 1 Peter 3 the spirits in prison were alive when they were being preached to.

You can confirm that claim by citing the verses in Genesis that says people did not die in the flood and were physically alive after it happened.

Chapter and verse please.

 

Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

 

Unto the spirits in prison - The inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by his just law to destruction. But their punishment was delayed to see if they would repent; and the long-suffering of God waited one hundred and twenty years, which were granted to them for this purpose; during which time, as criminals tried and convicted, they are represented as being in prison - detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance or the expiration of the respite, that the punishment pronounced might be inflicted. This I have long believed to be the sense of this difficult passage, and no other that I have seen is so consistent with the whole scope of the place. That the Spirit of God did strive with, convict, and reprove the antediluvians, is evident from Genesis 6:3 : My Spirit shall not always strive with man, forasmuch as he is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years. And it was by this Spirit that Noah became a preacher of righteousness, and condemned that ungodly world, ...

How does this opinion show from Genesis that people didn't die in the flood?

 

Thumbelina said: Well, the bible describes people who are not responding to the wooing of the HS as dead and when one finally responds and accepts Jesus, the bible says they are alive.

Christ's disciples understand His analogies, Centauri and you are being TOO literal in your interpretations.

 

Centauri said: Show from the text of 1 Peter 3:19 that the spirits in prison were still alive physically.

If you can't, then you're in no position to be making claims about what should be taken literally and what shouldn't be taken literally.

By the way, should the account of creation in Genesis be taken literally?

 

Thumbelina: I already showed you above what the texts say. As I said, in this text I should not have used the analogy of people being dead but people being in prison. I was addressing your tangents

In other words, the text means whatever you want it to mean.

 

Centauri said: You haven't established that the HS even exists much less confirmed what it inspires as proper teaching.

 

This goes right back to my original premise:

Your theology is typical for a believer.

It's a festival of SUBJECTIVE interpretations that cannot be proved.

You've extrapolated your personal opinions and whims into God-ordained "truth".

You can't prove a speck of it as being "truth", you can only assert it as being such.

You're so obtuse that you think repeating the same talking points over and over makes them true.

 

Once again, show from the text of 1 Peter 3:19 that the spirits in prison were not people that had physically died but were still living.

 

 

Thumbelina: Oh the HS does exist He helps me to understand the gospel, you should try submitting to Him sometime

Your theology is typical for an unbeliever.

It's a festival of SUBJECTIVE interpretations that cannot be proved.

You've extrapolated your personal opinions and whims into antichrst-like"truth".

You can't prove a speck of it as being "truth", you can only assert it as being such.

You're so obtuse that you think repeating the same talking points over and over makes them true.

 

I already discussed 1 Peter 3:19 , several times.

Not very original Thumbelina and it does nothing to invalidate the points I made.

You have nothing except your personal claims,assertions, and mimicking to offer as "truth" here.