nerdasaurus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 First of all, hearing people say "God's writing my love story" is one of the most annoying Christian phrases out there. I used to be guilty of saying it myself. Yikes. Moving on. Something about Christian relationships just doesn't resonate with me. In fact, they frighten me. If anything, I view them as "fluffed up" friendships rather than as romantic relationships. The men are akin to robots; the women both resemble and act like Stepford Wives. They seem so fake. Between the outright condemnation of sex and in some cases, chaperoned dates, these relationships simply appear mundane and, perhaps, mechanical in nature. Sure, there may be mutual attraction present, but every action in these relationships is taken absolutely cautiously, largely due to the fear of sin. It's rather unhealthy. Those in faith-based relationships look like they have a stick up their butts. You could cut the sexual tension between both individuals with a butcher knife. I'm a twenty-something, feminist female, and I view sex and experimentation as an incredibly significant aspect of a heathy relationship. It's normal to give in to sexual desires at this age. I could never wrap my head around the anti pre-marital sex teachings (and anti-contraception teachings). If anything, these teachings simpy repress natural, normal desires. I myself lost my virginity prior to becoming a "devout" Catholic Christian (I was raised in a very lukewarm Catholic home, so it wasn't viewed negatively). Yes, I regret losing it at eighteen to feel more "grown up," but I absolutely hated the way Christian teachings immediately viewed non-virgins, especially women, as "loose" and "immoral." I confessed my "sin" to a priest, but I felt as if I was never a proper Christian woman! To punish both men and women, for that matter, is just wrong! Sexual desire is a part of being human. We shouldn't be shamed and guilt-tripped for exploring our own sexuality. I'm by no means condoning promiscuity, but to have sex in a serious relationship is normal! I quote one of my favorite actresses, the lovely Bette Davis: "Just to marry [for sex] is wicked!" It doesn't end there. Married Christian couples must remain chaste; sex is a purely reproductive act. Now, that's frustrating, continuing to live with a stick up your butt even as you enter your married life. Irritating, isn't it? Moreover, I hated hearing the following phrase: "I feel like God placed [insert name here] into my life!" If anyone complained about being single, they were instantly smacked in the face with "Pray about it and see what God says! You need to seek God and His Word further. You have to love God so much that he has to bring an earthly man into your life to remind you of your surroundings, etc." On top of that, my peers and I were constantly told that "God might be calling us to a vocation" if we couldn't find a relationship. That's frightening. I'm going to stop here just to keep myself from getting angry, but who else could not stand the whole idea of Christian relationships? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Oh man I know what you mean. I broke off an engagement last year to "(insert name) who God had brought into my life" He turned out to be a verbally, emotionally, and mentally abusive bastard. I was raised with so many high standards. It's just ridiculous and honestly creepy. Granted I want to show discretion with whom I am with but to use all that energy in devotion to god is disgusting. I'm rambling...what I mean to say is that you are right on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Great rant, nerdasaurus! I agree, the whole thing (especially for those into Bill Gothard teachings) is pretty uptight. I think it's damaging, as you say. I never really connected with marriage as a concept, because I saw marriage as the institutionalization of emotional abuse and domination. I never thought I'd marry and I remain fairly independent, even though I married my best friend (long story). But back to relationships, yes, it was pretty sterile: "God told me to marry this person" ( ) or "My partner and I will be a good ministry team" ( ). Ugh. So glad I'm outta there! EDIT to add: I was actually told by one guy (narcissistic personality disorder, in hindsight) that I was God's gift to him. LOL!!!!! (RUN!!!!) EDIT #2 to add: I am still married to my best friend and love him to pieces!!! But this is often not the norm in Christianity... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'm by no means condoning promiscuity. Why the heck not! Promiscuous sex creates and promotes webs of affection and affiliation. It seems to me that the most serious downsides are sexually transmitted infections, particularly herpes and HPV. Those are pretty much inevitable for people who are promiscuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'm by no means condoning promiscuity. Why the heck not! Promiscuous sex creates and promotes webs of affection and affiliation. It seems to me that the most serious downsides are sexually transmitted infections, particularly herpes and HPV. Those are pretty much inevitable for people who are promiscuous. I concur. I escaped Christinsanity early, when I was 19, and was pretty promiscuous throughout my 20s. I had fun, met a whole bunch of interesting men who were good for intellectual conversation and companionship as well as sex, and I don't regret it a bit. It changed when one of those guys I picked up (or was it he who picked me up?) at a nightclub turned into an exclusive relationship. Still going strong 22+ years later. P.S. Never got any STDs, never got pregnant. These days, there are ways to prevent such things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 5,000,000 members on christianmingle.com Find God's match for you. Through internet dating. And that's all I gotta say about that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 5,000,000 members on christianmingle.com Find God's match for you. Through internet dating. And that's all I gotta say about that. This hit a nerve, Stryper! A fundy friend of mine remains eternally single at 40-something. She's been waiting for God to bring her Mr. Right. Waiting and waiting and praying. Some dating too, but something always goes awry. She has tried internet dating, but still no Mr. Right. Now she is recovering from a bout of cancer for which she has had major, body changing surgery and she's entering menopause early. So much for the promises of God for children. Anyhow, on one of the Christian sites, the person can say what degree their beliefs matter to them. Of course, my fundy friend only picks men who say "it defines who I am", rather than "it has a place" or "it's personal". Her list of other "must haves" is quite long and in my opinion, outrageous. And yet, she trusts God for all these things. It makes me incredibly sad to see people who want to get married struggle to much to do so. My friend is still fundy even though, by all appearances, God has screwed her over royally. I've told her to drop the ridiculous beliefs but she can't. Her struggle is one reason I became an atheist. I just can't believe that a loving God, who supposedly is a better parent than any earthly parent, would do this to his daughter. Fundamentalist beliefs are so destructive. So incredibly sad.... K, rant off. Thanks stryper. I just had to get that off my chest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 5,000,000 members on christianmingle.com Find God's match for you. Through internet dating. And that's all I gotta say about that. Was on there about a month ago or so. Pure B.S. to be honest. A waste of money and valuable time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 5,000,000 members on christianmingle.com Find God's match for you. Through internet dating. And that's all I gotta say about that. ChristianMingle often televises an ad that boasts of its 500,000 members, noting that 200,000 joined in the past year. Do the math: That means 300,000 have been searching for their "soul mate" on that site for over a year without success. I also think it's interesting that Spark Networks, which owns ChristianMingle, also own JDate (for Jews) and LDSMingle (for Mormons). But it's not all about exploiting religious loneyhearts for $30 per month; Sparks also owns BlackSingles.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Many fervent Christian couples remind me of puppies, or maybe of those posters of five-year-olds dressed in wedding clothes and kissing. It's like they're pretending to have a real relationship but don't know what that actually looks like. Even older couples seemed so weirdly asexual and mechanical when I was fundie; I knew an older couple who were demonstrative and clearly passionate in private, but they were really the oddballs in that church. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Many fervent Christian couples remind me of puppies, or maybe of those posters of five-year-olds dressed in wedding clothes and kissing. It's like they're pretending to have a real relationship but don't know what that actually looks like. Even older couples seemed so weirdly asexual and mechanical when I was fundie; I knew an older couple who were demonstrative and clearly passionate in private, but they were really the oddballs in that church. Even though I am beyond glad that I did not marry my fiance...when I stopped the sex because of the indoctrination I recieved at church...things really fell apart for us. He kept bringing up the case that we had just become friends and that he should no longer be affectionate with me because I was not giving him what he wanted. He would tell me every single time he watched porn to get a reaction out of me. It hurt. However, looking back and learning what I have learned....if his needs weren't being met...he had to meet them the only way he knew how without being unfaithful to me. I think the church places ridiculous expectations on couples to remain "pure". It's a load of bullshit. It really it. Granted, I am glad that I learned what I learned about him but still I see how my twisted views of sexuality influenced me to do something so harmful to my relationship. I couldn't even enjoy sex as much as I wanted or even climax because of the indoctrination I recieved as a young person. Still....I get to write my love story now...not god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I watched my aunt go through a whole "Gawd will find a man for me" period of time, and it was sad. She joined a very culty church, threw away all of her rock music, and when I would see her on a holiday or birthday (rarely, she was at church most of the time), she gave the most puke-inducing Jesusy gifts. One was a "praise music" cd of kids singing re-written with Jeebus lyrics 50's/60's pop songs called "Hallelujah Hop." Not to mention the condecending teen study bibles, and that picture book adapation of Pilgrim's Progress. FFS, really?? BLEEEHHHH! When she went back to her married boyfriend and pot, I was so fucking happy. That year, I got a stack of classic rock albums to make up for all this shit-tastic "music" she tried to push on me. The Who, Jimi Hendrix, and Cream FTW! I'm also soooo glad I got out of the religion mid-teens, and I lost my virginity when I was not quite 17. I don't regret it for an instant, but everyone is ready when they are ready for that sort of thing. I don't think there should be any sort of sexual standard that everyone has to live by - we're sexual creatures, sure, but we're also not all the same. No one should be made to feel like a "slut" or a "prude" just because they're living their sexual lives the way they want to. I find I'm happier being sexually open, and if that makes me a "slut", well, kiss the fattest part of my skanky ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Even though I am beyond glad that I did not marry my fiance...when I stopped the sex because of the indoctrination I recieved at church...things really fell apart for us. He kept bringing up the case that we had just become friends and that he should no longer be affectionate with me because I was not giving him what he wanted. He would tell me every single time he watched porn to get a reaction out of me. It hurt. However, looking back and learning what I have learned....if his needs weren't being met...he had to meet them the only way he knew how without being unfaithful to me. Holy cow that sounds really bad of him to do to you. I'm so glad you're away from him and working your way out of the harm that got done. It sounds like he was trying to guilt you into sexing him up. Tacky! There's nothing wrong with meeting one's sexual needs in the least harmful way possible to a mate, but he was punishing you too, and that is so not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think you guys are either building up a bit of a straw man, or are only looking at the fundamentalists. I have many (devout) Christian friends that believe: -there is not just one person/soulmate out there for them -sex is great! Yes, it should be within the confines of marriage, but let's have a lot of it! -sexual jokes are funny. They are about human nature. -experimenting with sex is just fine (oral, role playing) -birth control is fine (condoms and the pill...just about all Christians I have talked to about this agree) -robotics/Stepford wife syndrome. Do I know a few of these? Yes. Most of them are very genuine, though. Let's take it a little easy on the bashing. I am sure there are many crazy fundamentalists out there, too (I never associated with these people) but much of mainstream Christianity is fairly normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdasaurus Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 @Marmot: I'm actually an ex-Catholic, not an ex-fundamentalist. Many of my Catholic peers were strongly against contraception, having sex unless it was for reproduction, and some even against exploring their own sexuality (all acts encouraged "lust"). I've never seen any actual fundamentalist Christian-based relationships play out in front of me, so I don't necessarily know how that works out. If anything, the Protestant relationships I've heard about from my peers sound much more relaxed and slightly more liberal. Again, I'm by no means attempting to standardize all characteristics of Christian relationships; if anything, I'm simply venting, not proposing an absolute truth. It's a topic that I've particularly been eager to discuss (but mostly vent about) especially after having left religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I am sure there are many crazy fundamentalists out there, too (I never associated with these people) but much of mainstream Christianity is fairly normal. What is mainstream Christianity? I was a fundamentalist, pentecostal, but in my country the mainstream religion is Catholicism first and foremost and then Calvinism. Most people are "fairly normal" because they are only nominal Christians. However Catholicism or Calvinism, when taken seriously, are just as crazy as evangelicalism. I know there is such as liberal Christianity but I'm not sure that's mainstream anywhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think you guys are either building up a bit of a straw man, or are only looking at the fundamentalists. I have many (devout) Christian friends that believe: -there is not just one person/soulmate out there for them -sex is great! Yes, it should be within the confines of marriage, but let's have a lot of it! -sexual jokes are funny. They are about human nature. -experimenting with sex is just fine (oral, role playing) -birth control is fine (condoms and the pill...just about all Christians I have talked to about this agree) -robotics/Stepford wife syndrome. Do I know a few of these? Yes. Most of them are very genuine, though. Let's take it a little easy on the bashing. I am sure there are many crazy fundamentalists out there, too (I never associated with these people) but much of mainstream Christianity is fairly normal. I don't see how you get that. People were relating their experiences and opinions on what they saw when they were in Christianity. So they are not building anything up. There are many fairly "normal" Christians out there. Nobody is arguing that. And to be blunt No we will not take it easy on the bashing or mocking. This site is to help support those who are leaving christianity. Many on here came from the extremes of the religion. Other, like myself, did not. When someone is working through the effects of abuse, they will be angry at times. It is perfectly appropriate and healthy to express that anger. Eventually, there is a move away from anger. However, there are some issues that will always be sore spots with those affected. The repression of sexuality advocated by christianity is a very big one, for many people. The sterotypes of what is "christian" are so prevalent in American society that they deserve mocking. These people my genuinely believe what they say too. They may even be very nice people. It doesn't change the fact that their thinking on sex is repressive and counter to everything we know from psychology. It also doesn't change that there is a reason the sterotype exists. Another thing, there is also a strong undercurrent even in "mainstream" chrisitianity, of being a hypocrite. So many people who are mainstream christians would be considered only token christian by other christians. And how many times have we heard national news about the well known homophobic preacher who got caught having gay sex. Or the reformed drug user turn preacher who died in a hotel room at a conference of a cocaine overdose. How many others have torn a church apart because of money. Taking it a step further. I had a teacher in the 4th grade whose name was Mrs. Darling. She literally was a darling too. One of the best teachers I ever had. I had a mainstream christian tell me as a 4th grader that just because she was a nice person didn't mean anything. If she wasn't saved, then she was going to hell. This was a lay leader at Methodist church. The pastor of that same mainstream church told my mother that the yelling, spankings (hand and belt), and constant state of fear that we lived in because of my father was not justification enough to leave my dad. 18 years of living in fear everyday only feeling safe when he wasn't around. To the point that my sister during on incident was trying to accept the blame for something she knew she didn't do just so dad would stop yelling. Yet according to the bible my mom had an obligation to stay. These are my experiences. How is that a strawman? It's not. I have said it many times to my christian friends in the past. When the moderate voices are silent, the extremes are all that is heard. Christian in the US implies heavily that you believe in the extreme because those are the only voices that are heard. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I got it from "Something about Christian relationships just doesn't resonate with me. In fact, they frighten me. If anything, I view them as "fluffed up" friendships rather than as romantic relationships. The men are akin to robots; the women both resemble and act like Stepford Wives. They seem so fake." as well as "Many fervent Christian couples remind me of puppies, or maybe of those posters of five-year-olds dressed in wedding clothes and kissing. It's like they're pretending to have a real relationship but don't know what that actually looks like." Maybe I read it wrong, but these posts made it sound like a majority of Christian relationships are false and they don't know how to love. In my experience of Christian marriages, this does not resonate at all. Nerdosaurus did clarify so yes I did misinterpret her original intent. When I said to take it easy on the bashing and that a straw man was being built up, I was saying it reference to my impression that people were saying "most Christian relationships are robotic/puppies/". I don't think that is reflective of Christianity as a whole so that is why I said it is a strawman, just like when Christians build up atheists to be these amoral baby eaters. I am all for bashing Christians but if we are characterizing most Christian relationships as fake and insincere, then I think we are misguided. Once again, it seems I misunderstood the tenor of the posts but that was what I got when I read it. I have lived most of my life in very liberal states so perhaps my POV is biased (I now live in the Bible Belt, Stryper, so I am getting a better sense of what Christians look like in the rest of America). My definition of mainstream Christian has usually been Lutheran/Methodist/some E-free/some Presbyterian...basically not your automatic votes for Rick Santorum. Not too much to the right or the left. Baptist/Reformed/Community Churches/non-denom often end up being more conservative so I don't consider them mainstream, and maybe that is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks for the clarity. Don't get me wrong there can be and often is alot of residual anger. And strawmen do occur, just like sterotypes. There are many christian who fit those streotypes. Just like there are many rednecks, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc that fit streotypes. Do all no...of course not. And from the outside first impression can lead people to believe that the relationship are fake. But you can usually tell the genuine ones. I think in general many people stay together in relationship for many reasons, even when from the outside it appears they are together for superficial reasons. Staying married because the bible says so, is one of the dumber one. Right up there with staying together for the kids. Personally, my biggest beef with christianity is how people stop thinking for themselves. They allow god/the universe/fate/whatever to decide how their life plays out. In relationships this can, as shown by previous posts, lead to very bad outcomes. I have seen some very happy christian marriages. My sister's is one. But I also know that they didn't just leave it up to god. They worked their asses off to resolve conflicts that occured. While I personally can't stand her husband, I do have to admit they have what appears to be a very happy marriage that is rooted in religion. It does work for some people. However, it still takes work. I think that is the point that Akheia was making. For people who were raised from childhood in the fundy way of thinking, relationships are a gift from god. They are precious and puppies and rainbow and so much sugar that you get diabetes. The magical thinking that gets promoted causes the assumption that the other person will met all of my needs. Well what if the partner is actually gay, but repressed? What if the man wants to be dominated? What if the woman likes sex really rough and nasty and the guy only want missionary? Non sexualy. What if the man expresses his love by doing things like fixing the house up and the woman needs love expression by touching and cuddling. or vise versa. If you believe that you magically will know everything about the other, then you are being set up for disappointment. It seems the only work those who claim to be christian are willing to do is read the bible and pray about it. Fixing a relationship with god is about as effective on a real one as sleeping in a video game is to real sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well if god's writing my love story he's one celibate prick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprobate Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hard to be secure in a relationship when getting dumped comes as, "god told me........" It is also hard to open up to anyone when you know you are constantly being judged. There is a ton of insecurity among christian singles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 @Reprobate - yeah, but it's the ultimate conversation-stopper. How can a guy argue when a girl tells him God told her to dump him (or vice versa)? "Oh yeah? Well, the voice in MY head says we're meant to be together!" Wouldn't you love to be privy to that chat? Oh god, that reminds me. The week before I married Evil Ex, a crazy young man who'd left our church to join a Waco cult called me to say that he was going to kill Evil Ex because God had told him that I was actually supposed to marry him. I told him that God had somehow failed to tell me that (it was a shock as we'd never even flirted; he was an oddly asexual fellow), but apparently that was fine because I was a girl and sometimes the flock didn't know what the shepherd did. It became a battle of whose invisible head-voice was the accurate one, but in the end, I politely informed him that I'd be contacting the police right after our conversation to ensure everybody's safety, which cooled his ardor considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChristineE Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yeah, it's creepy. Especially all these Christian women who go crazy and sob like they're on Dr. Phil because *gasp!!* they caught their husbands watching pornography! Porn is great. I have walked in on my husband watching porn, he's walked in on me watching pron, and we both don't care. Seriously X-tian ladies, get over it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprobate Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 One I heard recently: "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you eat at home". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hard to be secure in a relationship when getting dumped comes as, "god told me........" It is also hard to open up to anyone when you know you are constantly being judged. There is a ton of insecurity among christian singles. My dad said an ex-gf of his said that to him once. I replied" In my experience, people who say they really want to do the action they just don't want the responsibility" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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