mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 My wife is adamant that she wants a baby dedication. She has not forgotten about it. So now I'm in a bind. I can't get up on stage and promise to raise my kid to worship Jesus. I don't mind going through the motions but I can't take an oath I intent to break. Whatever happens later I want to be able to say that I never lied. I can't think of a way around this problem. I'm either going to have to lie or I'm going to have to come out. I doubt she would agree to a baby dedication when I'm not there. And just requesting that would raise a lot of red flags. I'm going to study up on all the other stories where people came out to their spouse. I don't feel ready for this. If anybody can come up with a third option please don't hesitate offering suggestions. I don't care if it sounds crazy or not. I'm desperate. Brainstorming is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't really have a third option. But I will say that you want, or should want, to set an example for your child. An example of a parent who stands up for their beliefs, won't back down, and is utterly genuine in word and deed sounds like a fine example to me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 view it as a great opportunity. it's a 'God-thing'. HA HA, sorry. how long have you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChristineE Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Definately come out to your wife. Your child will one day look up to you for your bravery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockoff Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Would it sound workable to tell her you'd rather accept the possibility of the child believing in something else and that making a solemn public vow is only taking away from what should be a deeply personal choice of his or hers? It might blow your cover, but gently revealing you don't want to force this on your own child might happen to be the best way to come out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 view it as a great opportunity. it's a 'God-thing'. HA HA, sorry. Yeah, years from now I hope I do have a good story from all of this. how long have you got? Don't know. I'm going to try to keep stalling for now. Judging by her reaction I don't think that will work for long. I'm guessing a month tops. I'm a strategy guy so for now my coming out strategy is to wait for her to demand why I keep stalling and then tell her. I got to clean that plan up. There has to be a better angle than that. But if we have our big fight tonight that is what I'm going with. This is a big deal for me so I don't want to blow it. I'm not good at this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Eek! I can see how you'd feel cornered. Man, I feel for ya. I'm hesitant to suggest "coming out" if your wife isn't ready for it. For some reason, I'm not opposed to lying in this situation, for the main reason that you can defer The Big Talk with your wife. How much would you have to say/lie on stage at the dedication? If it's a yes/no answer is there a way around saying the actual words (a burst of tears or tongues )? I don't know, if you were in a Muslim synagogue with good friends and they decided to baptize your child then and there, because of their love for you, and they asked you if you committed to raise your child to know Allah, wouldn't you go along with it? Especially given that you don't believe, you may just say "yes" to preserve the relationships all round. I'm tired and probably rambling. My vote: find a way to justify in your mind saying words you don't believe, to keep the peace. Keep us posted! (At times like this I wish us Ex-C'ers could all show up at your church on baptism Sunday, just to lend moral support!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 My wife is adamant that she wants a baby dedication. She has not forgotten about it. So now I'm in a bind. I can't get up on stage and promise to raise my kid to worship Jesus. I don't mind going through the motions but I can't take an oath I intent to break. Whatever happens later I want to be able to say that I never lied. I can't think of a way around this problem. I'm either going to have to lie or I'm going to have to come out. I doubt she would agree to a baby dedication when I'm not there. And just requesting that would raise a lot of red flags. I'm going to study up on all the other stories where people came out to their spouse. I don't feel ready for this. If anybody can come up with a third option please don't hesitate offering suggestions. I don't care if it sounds crazy or not. I'm desperate. Brainstorming is welcome. Hope it's not too late... Yah, a third option: Write your own. Make it sincere, but also make it something a congregation would hear looking at each other nodding in approval. It doesn't have to mention J. or regurgitate doctrine. You can let everyone else do that. Make it sound like breaking out of the conformist ritual is an honest, spontaneous, sincere expression of your love and dedication to the baby, sort of like when people who get married write their own wedding vows. They sound natural. When they chant expecting you to chant you can look at the baby in amazement because the baby is more important than the ritual. You can find a middle ground and make everyone happy. How much time do you have before the ceremony? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Could you lie to buy more time and then come out later? Do you feel it would be marriage shattering to tell her? If not now, when do you plan on telling her? What do you want most for yourself and your family? Just some things to think about I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 My wife is adamant that she wants a baby dedication. She has not forgotten about it. So now I'm in a bind. I can't get up on stage and promise to raise my kid to worship Jesus. I don't mind going through the motions but I can't take an oath I intent to break. Whatever happens later I want to be able to say that I never lied. I can't think of a way around this problem. I'm either going to have to lie or I'm going to have to come out. I doubt she would agree to a baby dedication when I'm not there. And just requesting that would raise a lot of red flags. I'm going to study up on all the other stories where people came out to their spouse. I don't feel ready for this. If anybody can come up with a third option please don't hesitate offering suggestions. I don't care if it sounds crazy or not. I'm desperate. Brainstorming is welcome. My wife is adamant that she wants a baby dedication. She has not forgotten about it. So now I'm in a bind. I can't get up on stage and promise to raise my kid to worship Jesus. I don't mind going through the motions but I can't take an oath I intent to break. Whatever happens later I want to be able to say that I never lied. I can't think of a way around this problem. I'm either going to have to lie or I'm going to have to come out. I doubt she would agree to a baby dedication when I'm not there. And just requesting that would raise a lot of red flags. I'm going to study up on all the other stories where people came out to their spouse. I don't feel ready for this. If anybody can come up with a third option please don't hesitate offering suggestions. I don't care if it sounds crazy or not. I'm desperate. Brainstorming is welcome. So you're not lying right now by pretending to be a xian? Seems like you are splitting hairs here with regard to lying. So, how long will you have to raise your child to worship Jesus? Five minutes seems long enough to me. Then the rest of his childhood raise him the way you like. If Jesus is non-existent then raising your child to worship Jesus is a statement based on a false premise and should be ignored. :-) What does worship Jesus actually mean? This dedication reminds me of the 'resolutions' documents from the movie Courage to be a good parent. They were selling this shit at Walmart. Actions speak louder than words and written documents. Vows to do this and that dont mean anything. What you actually do means everything. Maybe tell your wife that a baby dedication feels phoney to you and that you don't want to share your private feelings with the whole friggin congregation. Maybe let her know that words are fluff and don't really mean shit. Maybe let her know that every day you hug your child and behave as a good example for them is good enough. Maybe let her know that you are tired of being controlled by the church and you will raise your child the way you want. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't have a mate or a child, but I'm generally opposed to lying, unless it would prevent a wrongful death. I can't pretend to know the pressure you're under, but personally, I have found a lot of peace in not pretending to be someone I'm not, and I'm grateful every damn day that I have never been baptized, and have not made an oath to follow a god I now reject. Granted, that's easier to make when you don't have a child to worry after, but I did make that desicion as a dependent minor - and got kicked out of the house for a couple of years. It sucked, but I had boarding school and friends, and my mother finally got the fuck over it. Now I don't have to pretend for anyone that I worship Abraham's god or his supposed zombie son. I vote for truth, for whatever my experience is worth for you. It had immediate and harsh consequences, but I don't regret it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Will there ever be a good time to come out? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Will there ever be a good time to come out? Nail. Head. Bang. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You could take the oblique approach and promise to educate your child about the metaphor of Jesus. If they assert that it's not a metaphor, then you could say, "If it's not metaphor, then it's a lie." Best defense is a good (firm and gentle?) offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Will there ever be a good time to come out? Yeah, I'm starting to think this way now, too. I'm starting to think at some point I'll just have to say "Fuck it..." and get it over with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I grew up in a cult that did not do any of this shit and when I got married, had kid1.0, wife wanted a christening. I was not overtly opposed to the idea but was not allowed to answer the oaths. This led me to getting confirmed for impending kid2.0 and that led to my wasted years. The ceremony is little more than hey we screwed and this is what came out of that, awe cute and all. Either you take this shit to heart or like someone suggested earlier, write your own vague dedication. Back to my situation, until the kids, religion was really not an issue. I did the vows for kid2.0 and then I became a fucktard and forced them to church with me for many many years. I think my whole family was glad when I came to my senses. No one in my household attends church apart from my son who does it about once a month only to appease the GF. He knows I will not attend a church wedding so he knows he has to plan something else. My daughter is on board with a total secular wedding for the future. You situation with the in laws ess being the church only complicates the matter of coming out. I hope you can come up with a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyB4 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am sorry for your situation. I don't post much here, but I read this forum a lot. I don't think you should participate. That is my initial reaction. I know there are a lot of consequences for a stand like that. But, I think it might cause problems when you do decide to come out. She might bring it up, and if she is like me, bring it up over and over. Then you might really feel like crap. It reminds me of a commercial against lying from when I was a kid...you tell one lie, it leads to another....you tell two lies it leads to another. I would say just stop. I am trying to not verbally say anything that would lead one to believe I am a Christian. That is a start. I head nod a lot. Deal with what you have presently before a new complication is added. Sometimes I don't know if I make sense. But, that is kind of what I am doing now. I have not come out to extended family, but I am trying not to be deceptive...but I know I am by not officially coming out. That is my two cents. I know decisions like that are very hard to make and I wish you the best. I have gone through, and am going through many ways of dealing with being in the closet. For me baby steps is all I can handle. But, I love to see people be brave and take a stand. I hope I can one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 My wife is adamant that she wants a baby dedication. She has not forgotten about it. So now I'm in a bind. I can't get up on stage and promise to raise my kid to worship Jesus. I don't mind going through the motions but I can't take an oath I intent to break. Whatever happens later I want to be able to say that I never lied. I can't think of a way around this problem. I'm either going to have to lie or I'm going to have to come out. I doubt she would agree to a baby dedication when I'm not there. And just requesting that would raise a lot of red flags. I'm going to study up on all the other stories where people came out to their spouse. I don't feel ready for this. If anybody can come up with a third option please don't hesitate offering suggestions. I don't care if it sounds crazy or not. I'm desperate. Brainstorming is welcome. Hope it's not too late... Yah, a third option: Write your own. Make it sincere, but also make it something a congregation would hear looking at each other nodding in approval. It doesn't have to mention J. or regurgitate doctrine. You can let everyone else do that. Make it sound like breaking out of the conformist ritual is an honest, spontaneous, sincere expression of your love and dedication to the baby, sort of like when people who get married write their own wedding vows. They sound natural. When they chant expecting you to chant you can look at the baby in amazement because the baby is more important than the ritual. You can find a middle ground and make everyone happy. How much time do you have before the ceremony? I think this is the best recommendation, if you can carry it out. Though, I think you also need to come out to your wife ... eventually but soon. Maybe get this ceremony out of the way first, but eventually she'll have to know. Living a lie is hard on relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 22, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'm with Bro. Josh and others who champion being true to yourself and standing up for what you believe. That's the best example for children to see.. It's natural to put off the inevitable if doing so would be unpleasant or uncomfortable. Even so, if not now, when? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Do you HAVE to say anything? Can't you just stand behind your wife and let her do the talking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Mistake.....face it head on. Tell her you need to talk and explain it. she will get pissed. Stay calm and reasonable about it. Be honest. Avoidance begets suspicion. come clean. Your stress level will drop a bit too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Mistake.....face it head on. Tell her you need to talk and explain it. she will get pissed. Stay calm and reasonable about it. Be honest. Avoidance begets suspicion. come clean. Your stress level will drop a bit too. I think I'm gonna agree. I know your a strategic sort of person, but sometimes life doesn't go according to plans. You may just have to bite the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 So you're not lying right now by pretending to be a xian? I am not lying right now. Nobody has asked me if I am a Christian in many years. The closest I came to that was when someone asked me to vote in a church election and I told her I was not qualified. She assumed that meant I was not a member (which is also a fact) and I did not elaborate. I am not volunteering information. However I am also not taking any oaths. We do not say a creed like some denominations do. However our baby dedications always follow the same pattern where both parents are required to take an oath. My church does not have custom vows. (But I appreciate those who offered that idea. Thanks for trying) Seems like you are splitting hairs here with regard to lying. Yes I am splitting hairs. What matters to me is that I do not lie to my wife. After I have a chat with her and come out as an atheist I will offer her to continue with the baby dedication anyway. If it will help her save face or meet expectations then I will be happy to lie because she asked me to. So yes I am splitting hairs but the issue is trust. I'm starting to see that I have to face this head on. So, how long will you have to raise your child to worship Jesus? Five minutes seems long enough to me. Then the rest of his childhood raise him the way you like. If Jesus is non-existent then raising your child to worship Jesus is a statement based on a false premise and should be ignored. :-) What does worship Jesus actually mean? The issue is that my marriage is based on loyalty but I have a duty to my children. That is what puts me in the corner. I'm not really worried about gods who don't exist. I was an emotional wreck when I first came to ex-C and I thought it would take me much more time to get strong enough to come out. Now I see that I have to do it soon. This dedication reminds me of the 'resolutions' documents from the movie Courage to be a good parent. They were selling this shit at Walmart. Actions speak louder than words and written documents. Vows to do this and that dont mean anything. What you actually do means everything. Maybe tell your wife that a baby dedication feels phoney to you and that you don't want to share your private feelings with the whole friggin congregation. Maybe let her know that words are fluff and don't really mean shit. Maybe let her know that every day you hug your child and behave as a good example for them is good enough. Maybe let her know that you are tired of being controlled by the church and you will raise your child the way you want. Thanks for your advise. (And also to everyone else who offered help and encouragement.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 When it's someone I don't feel like arguing with, I'll just say "I'm not the real religious sort." Boy, is that a nomination for understatement of the year! But this is someone you have to live with. Any objection on your part will eventually lead to "about that god I used to believe in......" Come clean, endure the storm, and hope for make-up sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Mistake.....face it head on. Tell her you need to talk and explain it. she will get pissed. Stay calm and reasonable about it. Be honest. Avoidance begets suspicion. come clean. Your stress level will drop a bit too. I think I'm gonna agree. I know your a strategic sort of person, but sometimes life doesn't go according to plans. You may just have to bite the bullet. "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." -Helmuth von Moltke the Elder That's why the best plans are flexible. So now I'm working on my coming out talk. There were some events that happened recently that make this a good time. She is not going to be ready for this news but then she was never going to be ready for it. My hope was to wait and let her de-convert on her own but clearly that idea is not viable. Head on it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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