Married...but Maybe Divorcing?

[rockerlife]

This is my first post here, but i've read all I could find through searching the boards about the topic of marriage and divorce between a christian and athiest. I am mainly looking for a bit of insight.

 

There is way to much to post here about the situation, but to summarize the big points as they appear in my mind:

 

My wife and I were both raised christians and married as christians. Started dating when she was 18 and I was 21, dated 2 years and married, now we've been married nearly 2 years and she's 22 and I'm 25.

When dating we both had similiar interest's, ie. christian death metal (even had a christian death metal band at the wedding!), skating, working out, adventuring, etc. Of course we felt our biggest guarantee of relationship success was that we were raised similiarly and we believed in the same religion. Before meeting her, I had sexual relations with a few women, but when i started dating my now wife we decided to wait until marriage (and she was a virgin until then).

 

 

From the honeymoon onward our sex life was a wreck. She had at first experienced a lot of pain which made me feel very uneasy about it. The pain did subside after about the first month of us slowly working at it. But I was unable to wait for my wife for sexual satisfication...of course I did what is perfectly normal and fine, I took care of things myself while waiting for the married sex to improve. She found out about this and said that it hurt her deeply and from that point on she put up an emotional wall towards me and it started a sick cycle with us. She would be hurt that I masturbated (mostly because the use of porn) and wouldn't want to be sexual which would lead me back to masturbating back and forth. Even if I stopped and promised to never do it again, it would take her to long to really forgive me and take down the emotional wall before I would need to take care of things. Of course I would have rather been with my wife, but it was hard when she was so cold and uninterested. There are a lot more details, but I that is the gist of the beginning. This cycle has gone on for the last 2 years. Our sex life has been an average of 2 to 3 times per month. On top of that, it has only been regular sex for the past year or so. When it does happen, to me it feels like a quicky each time, as in she drops her pants and then as soon as we're both off she jumps off to the bathroom and goes about the day.

She had problems orgasming near the begginning too, but we did work through that with reading books and buying toys and trying different things. I'd say she would be happy with sex once a month if ever and only missionary with a vibe. And yes I tried a multitude of things to spark interest, believe me....

The biggest probelm with our marriage has to be the sex. I feel it has to do a lot with religion. When my wife was 12 she discovered masturbation with orgasm, but after a few months of doing it daily she decided it was WRONG and stopped completely until we were married 9 years later. I think all of those years of repression messed her mind up. I think it would take years of counceling to help with that if ever. The other side is that she would require me to pretty much be celibate and hope that it grows a sexual desire and trust between us. I tried a few times and failed...how can you go weeks without anything?

 

I'm sorry that my post has gotten so long, I will try to summarize up to the current date:

After getting married and feeling depressed about the sexual situation at about the 1 year mark I turned to alcohol and became an alcoholic for nearly 7 months of daily drinking. But I realized what i was doing and I was ruining my life and my marriage even further, since then for about 6 months now it has been under control, truly. I know that this was very dumb on my part and hurt the marriage. At nearly the exact same time that I quit drinking is actually the time were became an athiest through pouring countless hours into youtube vids and books and things on netflix about it all. I felt SO free! The depression was gone and has been ever since and I've had a superb outlook on life and living for the 6 months since then.

I mentioned our interest's because now we no longer share the same interest's that we once did, which is OK as different hobbies can be good. And most importantly we are now no longer the same religion. I have come out and told her about 2 weeks ago as we got into an argument about the sex life stinking and both of us say we can't go on the same way. And now that I'm an athiest she doesn't know how to continue on yet.

 

 

I feel that the marriage is bound to have a bunch of problems with the difference in relgious views. I feel that my wife needs years of counciling to help her workout her sexual issues. i feel my sex drive and practice is normal and fine which goes agaist my wifes religious beliefs and emotionally push's her away.

On the one hand, I feel as such a young guy I shouldn't have to deal with years of counciling and working through it when it might not work out anyway. Instead of having very low amounts of sex and very low amount of physical attention (which I crave and she just isn't ask touchy feely) I could be out dating again. But this time I'd be dating way more people (not looking for a strong christian) and I could have unihibited sex. Even if we were to try to work through things (as we've already been trying for 2 years) there is no guarantee that we'd make it, or that she wouldn't decide that she wants a christian husband. And I feel being an athiest will push me away from her family and push my wife to be closer with them too (and them all against me perhaps). Am I wrong to put so much blame on my wife for our issues?

On the other hand, if I seek divorce I will be losing my best friend. We really get along tremendously well in all ways except sexually and also physically on my side. We haven't even argued over anything except sex pretty much (and the fact that I was an alcoholic when i was). And my wife would become a divorced women in the eyes of christian men. AND there's no guarantee that I would find a better mate out there.

I really love my wife and would hate to hurt her.

 

 

If anyone has been where I am, I would greatly appreciate any advice you have to give. There doesn't seem to be too much readily available info on this subject.

[lunaticheathen]

I'm sorry, I don't have much advice for you, but I do want to say that I HATE HATE HATE, OMFG FUCKING HAAAAAAAAAATE what christianity teaches to women about sex. It doesn't as much, but it still fucks with me to this day, though maybe not as much as your poor wife.

The best thing would be for her to wake the fuck up and work on enjoying sex for real, and stop hating herself for having normal fucking sexual feelings during puberty. Fucking HELL the shame they put on girls for being sexual beings makes me FUCKING SICK, and sorry, the pressure is just not on the boys for the same. You said yourself you weren't a virgin when married (not judging, but shit, I did notice that in your story, the typical hypocrisy).

You shouldn't have to turn off your sexual feelings, just as she never should have been made to repress hers. I've never been married, so I don't have much advice on that front, but I am deeply sorry for you and your poor wife. She's a casualty of christian misogyny.

[blackpudd1n]

Welcome to the forum, Rockerlife.

 

Your honesty is impressive. You really are in a complicated situation, and I do empathise with you.

 

This is a decision that only you can make, but perhaps my own story may be beneficial to you, and I'm going to try and be as honest with you as you have been with the rest of us.

 

Christianity has damaged my sex life, too, and I am still trying to undo that damage. My fiancee is an atheist, and was raised completely without religion, so it has been difficult for him to understand my sexual hang-ups, as much as he tries.

 

I was raised believing that sex was a dirty thing. It wasn't spoken about. Masturbation was a strict no-no. I have never actually managed to make myself come. I am 26 now, and my fiancee has been helping learn how to touch myself. He started by masturbating me while we were having sex, until I got to the stage where I was comfortable enough to do it myself while we were having sex. I'm not quite at the point where I can do it by myself, though- still working on that.

 

I can relate to her reaction to porn- it is something I am still trying to overcome myself. The porn thing is multi-faceted problem, though; for starters, there's the whole "infidelity" thing, as you are taught as an xtian that just looking at another with lust is cheating on your spouse; then there's insecurity issues- your wife may be wondering, as I have done many times, if she is "good enough". She may be wondering if you are comparing her to the women in the pornos, if you are dissatisfied with her physically in any way. Not only that, but she may be wondering if you don't desire her as much as the women in the pornos.

 

Christianity has affected my ability to just be affectionate, too. When I was in the church, everyone was always being watched for any inappropriate behaviour. If you kissed your boyfriend, was the kiss too long or too passionate? If you were physically affectionate with each out, was the affection impure? Were your actions going to lead you astray? It got to the point where I was paranoid about all form of touch, and as a result, I am rather unaffectionate. My fiancee has been overcoming this by being consistently affectionate with me, getting me used to how normal touching and kissing is. Because I just simply forget to do it.

 

My fiancee and I have not had a lot of regular sex in our relationship, I'll be honest about that now. It has a lot to do with my hang-ups. But I'm working on them. We've gone to a secular counsellor a few times. She's still there if we need her, and my fiancee is happy to come to the sessions with me, particularly when we hit a massive gridlock, which happened once and the counsellor helped us to sort it out. One of the things that have made me feel a lot more comfortable and open sexually is talking about sex with my fiancee. Discussing it, and being very honest with each other.

 

I used to have a major issue with him masturbating, too, but I am a lot more comfortable with him doing it now. My man has a very high sex drive, higher than my own, and needs a release at least once a day. And you know, I'm glad now that he can take care of business himself, because I'm out of action now due to my dodgy uterus, and will probably be until after my hysterectomy. But when I'm up to it, I'll give him a BJ or hand job, and he'll return the favour.

 

The fact of the matter is, though, that there will be times in any relationship when the sex takes a dive. Stress, kids, weird working hours, illness, etc. But half the problem here is that as long as your wife remains an xtian, her mind-set and point of view is unlikely to change. The biggest difference between myself and your wife is that I am now an atheist, and your wife is still an xtian.

 

I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to do, as this is your life. But maybe it would be worth trying a few things, having a few open, honest talks with your wife, and seeing a therapist, before you make any life-changing decidions.

[bornnormal]

Welcome fellow rocker!

 

Sorry for the blunt opinion but RUN BROTHER, RUN! I've dated an emotionally and sexually unavailable girl for more then 4 years. We were not married but it was still really hard to break up because we were "really getting along tremendously well in all ways except sexually and also physically on my side". But man what a great decision that was.

There are thousands of awesome girls within 5 miles driving radius (if you are a city dweller), and I am sure that you will find someone else.

 

Another good news: If you could stop drinking without major health and mental problems then you were not an alcoholic. Stop saying that you were! You have some serious misconceptions of drinking in the US (I have noticed that).

You just drank something every day, just like every grown person ie. in France and Italy. A civilized drinking habit is not seriously damaging to a man's health.

 

Christian death metal? srsly? That joke stands on its own...

 

Sorry for my blunt opinions, I sincerely hope that everything will work out just fine! You are 25, who can stop you from turning your life into something wonderful? (hint: not even God)

[HappyB4]

Hello there. My advice would be to get out. You are too young to be dealing with that in a marriage. I have been married for almost 8 years, and 5 of those have been to a reborn again christian. It messes things up. If you have children, that is a harder decision...but no kids, sucky sex, and christianity in the mix...I think I would have to get out before things get more complicated. Christian in-laws are tricky to deal with, too. I would say go out an enjoy your life. But...if you do have loving feelings for her I would give counseling a good try first but NO XIAN counseling!! Make sure there's no chance she would doubt or deconvert. Being married to a fundy is hard. Best of luck to you!!

[rockerlife]

I'm sorry, I don't have much advice for you, but I do want to say that I HATE HATE HATE, OMFG FUCKING HAAAAAAAAAATE what christianity teaches to women about sex. It doesn't as much, but it still fucks with me to this day, though maybe not as much as your poor wife.

The best thing would be for her to wake the fuck up and work on enjoying sex for real, and stop hating herself for having normal fucking sexual feelings during puberty. Fucking HELL the shame they put on girls for being sexual beings makes me FUCKING SICK, and sorry, the pressure is just not on the boys for the same. You said yourself you weren't a virgin when married (not judging, but shit, I did notice that in your story, the typical hypocrisy).

You shouldn't have to turn off your sexual feelings, just as she never should have been made to repress hers. I've never been married, so I don't have much advice on that front, but I am deeply sorry for you and your poor wife. She's a casualty of christian misogyny.

 

YES! I hate what religion has done to human sexuality. It would have messed me up probably if I hadn't had such a high drive and couldn't/didn't want to stop in puberty.

just for an example of it fucking up a guy...my best friend growing up was the strongest christian i've ever known, still is to this day. he fought the sexual urges daily, praying and fasting and staying in a depression throughout his teen years. I actually thought he was the only one strong enough to not give in. Then when he started college he couldn't take it anymore and started masturbating daily but not to any images or imagination supposedly and then praying for forgiveness all that time. Then he got married recently and he has for some reason lost interest in sex and couldn't even cum at first. religion f'ed his minds wiring, but he seems to be forever lost to Christianity.

 

u bring up a good point though about my wife...her sexual wiring is messed up. If i pursue divorce she will know the main reason to be sex. Will it screw her up even more? Or will it wake her up? How long would it take to rewire 9 years of her telling her self feeling so good was so wrong?

[rockerlife]

Welcome to the forum, Rockerlife.

 

Your honesty is impressive. You really are in a complicated situation, and I do empathise with you.

 

This is a decision that only you can make, but perhaps my own story may be beneficial to you, and I'm going to try and be as honest with you as you have been with the rest of us.

 

Christianity has damaged my sex life, too, and I am still trying to undo that damage. My fiancee is an atheist, and was raised completely without religion, so it has been difficult for him to understand my sexual hang-ups, as much as he tries.

 

I was raised believing that sex was a dirty thing. It wasn't spoken about. Masturbation was a strict no-no. I have never actually managed to make myself come. I am 26 now, and my fiancee has been helping learn how to touch myself. He started by masturbating me while we were having sex, until I got to the stage where I was comfortable enough to do it myself while we were having sex. I'm not quite at the point where I can do it by myself, though- still working on that.

 

I can relate to her reaction to porn- it is something I am still trying to overcome myself. The porn thing is multi-faceted problem, though; for starters, there's the whole "infidelity" thing, as you are taught as an xtian that just looking at another with lust is cheating on your spouse; then there's insecurity issues- your wife may be wondering, as I have done many times, if she is "good enough". She may be wondering if you are comparing her to the women in the pornos, if you are dissatisfied with her physically in any way. Not only that, but she may be wondering if you don't desire her as much as the women in the pornos.

 

Christianity has affected my ability to just be affectionate, too. When I was in the church, everyone was always being watched for any inappropriate behaviour. If you kissed your boyfriend, was the kiss too long or too passionate? If you were physically affectionate with each out, was the affection impure? Were your actions going to lead you astray? It got to the point where I was paranoid about all form of touch, and as a result, I am rather unaffectionate. My fiancee has been overcoming this by being consistently affectionate with me, getting me used to how normal touching and kissing is. Because I just simply forget to do it.

 

My fiancee and I have not had a lot of regular sex in our relationship, I'll be honest about that now. It has a lot to do with my hang-ups. But I'm working on them. We've gone to a secular counsellor a few times. She's still there if we need her, and my fiancee is happy to come to the sessions with me, particularly when we hit a massive gridlock, which happened once and the counsellor helped us to sort it out. One of the things that have made me feel a lot more comfortable and open sexually is talking about sex with my fiancee. Discussing it, and being very honest with each other.

 

I used to have a major issue with him masturbating, too, but I am a lot more comfortable with him doing it now. My man has a very high sex drive, higher than my own, and needs a release at least once a day. And you know, I'm glad now that he can take care of business himself, because I'm out of action now due to my dodgy uterus, and will probably be until after my hysterectomy. But when I'm up to it, I'll give him a BJ or hand job, and he'll return the favour.

 

The fact of the matter is, though, that there will be times in any relationship when the sex takes a dive. Stress, kids, weird working hours, illness, etc. But half the problem here is that as long as your wife remains an xtian, her mind-set and point of view is unlikely to change. The biggest difference between myself and your wife is that I am now an atheist, and your wife is still an xtian.

 

I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to do, as this is your life. But maybe it would be worth trying a few things, having a few open, honest talks with your wife, and seeing a therapist, before you make any life-changing decidions.

 

Thank you very much for being open and sharing your story with me. I had completely forgot about the teen years in church and how even holding hands warrants judgmental stares from the others. I guess as being a guy with a strong drive towards physical affection and sexual satisfaction, as strongly as I wanted to be a good christian, I could never REALLY tell myself no.

You hit the nail on the head with how the wife feels about porn. personally I'm still up in the air about it even though i do look at it with frequency. Like, I feel if I had a good sexual partner I wouldn't even desire to look at porn as the real thing is so much better. I wish the wife couldn't understand and not constantly think I've had a million affairs.

I do think the root of all the problems is that she is still a christian and I feel I have no right to try and change her even though I think her challenging her beliefs to be the only solution to our marriage.

 

I'm glad to hear that you are making so much progress in living your life to its fullest

[blackpudd1n]

u bring up a good point though about my wife...her sexual wiring is messed up. If i pursue divorce she will know the main reason to be sex. Will it screw her up even more? Or will it wake her up? How long would it take to rewire 9 years of her telling her self feeling so good was so wrong?

 

oh yeah, she'll hate you. You and every other sleazy atheist male she ever comes across in the future. You will be the biggest arsehole on the planet.

 

And if she deconverts, then her family will hate you, too. You will be the biggest arsehole on the planet.

 

Either way, it will all be your fault, in both scenarios.

[rockerlife]

Welcome fellow rocker!

 

Sorry for the blunt opinion but RUN BROTHER, RUN! I've dated an emotionally and sexually unavailable girl for more then 4 years. We were not married but it was still really hard to break up because we were "really getting along tremendously well in all ways except sexually and also physically on my side". But man what a great decision that was.

There are thousands of awesome girls within 5 miles driving radius (if you are a city dweller), and I am sure that you will find someone else.

 

Another good news: If you could stop drinking without major health and mental problems then you were not an alcoholic. Stop saying that you were! You have some serious misconceptions of drinking in the US (I have noticed that).

You just drank something every day, just like every grown person ie. in France and Italy. A civilized drinking habit is not seriously damaging to a man's health.

 

Christian death metal? srsly? That joke stands on its own...

 

Sorry for my blunt opinions, I sincerely hope that everything will work out just fine! You are 25, who can stop you from turning your life into something wonderful? (hint: not even God)

 

More and more I do feel like I'm missing out and believe me I have REALLY started to notice the thousands of other women around the area. not that I want to become a whore, lol, but it seems VERY appealing to date without being *serious*. I was raised with the mentality that the only reason to date was to get married and that was always my focus. If you were hot and then i found you to not be a christian i easily dismissed you....how sad.

 

To the drinking....heh, i see nothing wrong with drinking on a daily basis...but it was so much fun and made me feel so much better about the situation. It then started to replace my life rather than add to it and I was going through 2 handles a week....most morning puking my brains out till lunch, only to start up drinking after lunch.

 

christian death metal? heh, if you can sing to jesus why can't you scream for him? haha. most of the christian metal out there is just *positive* metal and a nonchristian can't tell that its christian music anyway. lol, i feel like i've been defending that my whole life. and boy do i have stories about my southern baptist dad's reaction to my devil music........

 

Thanks for your bluntness though man, that's why I'm glad I found this site!

[bornnormal]

 

I was going through 2 handles a week....most morning puking my brains out till lunch, only to start up drinking after lunch.

 

 

OK. That's no fun at all. Maybe I'm blind to other options then working in a regular job, but I just can't imagine how on earth did you make a living while doing that? (lucky rich capitalist basterdz)

[blackpudd1n]

You hit the nail on the head with how the wife feels about porn. personally I'm still up in the air about it even though i do look at it with frequency. Like, I feel if I had a good sexual partner I wouldn't even desire to look at porn as the real thing is so much better. I wish the wife couldn't understand and not constantly think I've had a million affairs.

I do think the root of all the problems is that she is still a christian and I feel I have no right to try and change her even though I think her challenging her beliefs to be the only solution to our marriage.

 

I'm glad to hear that you are making so much progress in living your life to its fullest

 

I still have particularly bad days with porn. Some days, if I catch my fiancee, I'll just laugh, while other days, I'll completely fly off the handle. It just gets blown so far out of proportion in my head it's not funny. But that being said, I am finding the best anti-dote to my freak-outs over porn to be re-discovering my own confidence and sexuality. Just learning to embrace myself as a sexual being.

 

But seriously, there may be reasons for your wife's lack of interest in sex. For starters, she may have a physical reason for not enjoying sex. Something as simple as carrying her womb in her back could be causing her discomfort and pain, so if you haven't already been to see a doctor, I would advise doing so. Here is a website of possible causes, both physical and psychological, for sexual discomfort or pain: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/painfulintercourse.htm

 

At the very least, if she does have a physical problem that can be remedied or worked around, your sex life could improve and your marriage may be saved. But if you cannot save your marriage for other reasons, at least, if there was an explanation for how she felt during sex, then at least maybe she will know that the reason you two divorced was not due to sex. And, you know, she may not be telling you about any discomfort she continues to feel.

 

You really are in a hard place, though.

[LivingLife]

Back when I was 25, my now wife was inexperienced but was willing. I really tried hard to please her and make sure she enjoyed it.

 

You say you are good friends, that outlasts the high frequency sex drive of the 20-30's

 

TBH, if you are only doing it 3 times a month, how is she ever going to learn to like it?

 

From a 54 year old, I still have to initiate sex but I have gotten used to playing that role. Yes us oldies still fuck.

 

Without getting into intimate detail here, I suggest you get a sex manual. It helped us (her more than me) Women have to feel loved at this age and sex is not a big driver. As women get older, they want more and IMO learn about their bodies and needs.

 

There are a lot of sex plays you can do w/o doing the deed right away to build it up.

 

I made my wife watch porn with me in the early days, it helped her too.

 

Not saying this will work with you but IMO, if your wife is your best friend, that outlasts and sees you though the shit that will come in time more than just sex.

 

If she is on the pill, that also is known to make her less horny. You have to make love making a "spiritual" thing for her.

 

By the time we married at 28 and 25, we had no sex issues as it had all been worked out already.

 

Oh and BTW, porn is fiction.

[rockerlife]

I was going through 2 handles a week....most morning puking my brains out till lunch, only to start up drinking after lunch.

 

 

OK. That's no fun at all. Maybe I'm blind to other options then working in a regular job, but I just can't imagine how on earth did you make a living while doing that? (lucky rich capitalist basterdz)

 

 

lol, yeah it was SUCH a waste. I only got to that point for having to much free time, i've got a smoothie shop that runs its self for the most part. not a crazy income, but a crazy amount of free time. at my core i am a minimalist and would be fine working at mcd's living in a friends garage...but i got luckier somehow

[mymistake]

Welcome to ex-C.

 

Bottom line is that marriage is not realistic. There are so many misconceptions out there fed to single people. So much misinformation is spread because the truth is taboo. The problem is that essentially we are chimpanzees. See any chimpanzees getting married? Romance last for only a few years. You have reached the point all relationships reach at around the same time. The romance is over and now you have to decide if there is something worth staying for life. For me that happened in my third year. I decided to stick it out mostly due to loyalty. I found that trait to be worth it. Loyalty is a big thing to me. So look at your wife and decide if she has something worth it. It's your life so only you can decide if something it worth it to you.

 

Personally I'm never going to recommend anybody get married. I'm not even going to expect my kids to get married. I'm going to teach them to be good parents. That is very important. But marriage as we practice it today is messed up.

[ConureDelSol]

Personally, I feel like the sex part shouldn't be the downfall of a marriage. I would like my future husband to also be my best friend and you seem to have that with her. That's a rarity in itself. Your wife needs to be deprogrammed about the masturbation thing. Present her with proven health benefits and perhaps it will plant that seed of doubt. As far as therapy, I suggest that you don't limit the sexual therapy to her. Don't say "you" need to go to therapy say "we" need to go to therapy. Telling her to go by herself might instill a feeling that you think something is wrong with her or that she's inadequate. If you two go together, you show to her that you are not belittling her and that you are willing to make a commitment to make things better as well.

 

I don't know exactly how deeply ingrained fundamentalist theology is in her, but hopefully she can be saved. A girl like her would be a terrible thing to waste.

[stryper]

Therapy.

 

And visit a doctor together and talk about the pain during sex. I saw something on TLC or discovery or something where the wife was actually allergic to a protein in her husbands sperm. Talk about ouch.

 

But Therapy needs to happen. If you truly want to save it, then it sounds like you need to get a third party involved. Obviously, what you have tried hasn't worked so far. So try something new.

[darwinfish]

I'm so sorry to hear your story. I don't have advice, but I do sympathize. I've had a rocky marriage, too. The sexual hang ups were on my end, some issues were from the Church, some were just my own insecurities. Since losing my faith, my sex life has improved 100 fold. My wife is still a dedicated Christian, but for some reason she never got hung up on the sexual aspect of religion. From my perspective, I would think that some of her issues come from feeling like sex is dirty, also her own insecurities about her own body. Sex, for her, must feel like a chore. I almost feel like there must have been some childhood issues with sex as well. I'm not saying sex abuse (although, I'm not ruling that out), but at least one parent that went overboard with her when it came to sex, making her feel like it's a really bad thing that only bad people do. You're right about her needing counselling to help her, but if she's not open to that, she won't get anything out of it. The only kind of counselling that helps people, is when the people are actively involved in trying to change something within themselves. Someone being forced to deal with issues their not ready to deal with, will only cause that person to withdraw even more. I did.

 

From your post, I wasn't clear if your wife was fully aware of your atheism. If she doesn't accept you being an atheist, the sex issues might not be the biggest issue. I really do hope the best for you and your wife. My marriage always made me think of that Coldplay song, the Scientist. There a line in there that went, "No one ever said it was easy ... no one ever said it would be so hard". That how I felt about my marriage felt for so long, I never expected marriage to be easy, but, damn, I never expected it to be this hard.

[Akheia]

Cornered, indeed! You're in such a difficult place and I really sympathize. I'd never presume to tell you how to handle your marriage, but I can share what happened to me and maybe it'll resonate a little. I really didn't care for sex much while I was fundie; in fact I'd never orgasmed! After I deconverted, I really had to come to grips with a lot of what the church taught about sex. I put "sex is evil except with your hubby and then it's always awesome" in the same rubbish bin as "atheists just want to sin." But there are a lot of other lies that I internalized: "Porn should make me feel threatened" and "I have the right to tell my partner when or if he can masturbate" and--worst of all--"Intercourse with me is the only legitimate expression of sexual need." And I began to value sex and see it as a normal human need, like eating or sleeping. Just as it's sadistic to expect your partner not to eat or sleep if you're not hungry or tired, it's unfair to expect your spouse/partner to go without sex just because you don't want it.

 

I had to not only really get a grip on my attitudes about sex, but also about love. That proved a lot more difficult for me because I grew up in the 80s in the era of power ballads and ultra-histrionic movies about TWOO WUV FOWEVAH and making any sacrifice imaginable for love. Why yes, there is a point at which I had to learn to say "enough, this isn't working." And DIY projects were one place I really had to take a beating a couple times before I figured it out.

 

I wasted so many years trying to "fix" people. After a few of these, I finally learned that people don't fundamentally change without a shitload of work, and I also learned that what I really wanted was a partner who was 100% viable out of the box. I was so tired of having to "fix" people. I was sick of partners who explicitly demanded to be made into my DIY projects. I couldn't imagine spending the next 20 years dragging a man kicking and screaming to the point where he was halfway tolerable as a mate. I began to have way too much self-respect to put up with that kind of treatment and I began to see myself as way too valuable to have to put up with substandard men.

 

The idea that relationships always require hard work, compromise, and "settling" is a pernicious myth. They shouldn't require so much work that the compromises overshadow the good parts of the relationship, and that's what was happening to me. We've made a few compromises--he doesn't want booze in the house so we don't have it, and he hates coupons so we don't use them, whereas I'm scared of the dryer catching fire so though I'm a SAHW he handles the dryer. But would we compromise something major like whether we have kids? NO. But we wouldn't ask. It wouldn't be fair. If the compromise can't end without someone feeling shorted, it's not fair of me to ask of him. In the 8 years we've been together, he has not raised his voice to me even once, though he is an ex-MMA tournament winner and an eloquent man of firm convictions--and we certainly don't agree 100% on everything. The point? A lot of relationships aren't hard at all. They don't have to be and you don't have to go through life thinking that is normal.

 

I see a lot of my own feelings mirrored in what you wrote, especially in the impression I got that you know you're being treated unfairly. She's beating a dog that stole food because it was starving. But ultimately her hangups and issues are her problem. Think of it as no different than a major health problem. When my SO's refused to get help for their hangups/issues, I carefully weighed the pros and cons at that point of staying in the relationship. Was feeling rejected constantly and feeling like my valid and legitimate desires and needs were "wrong" worth this person's charm and our other commonalities? In the end, I figured there were millions of charming gamers in the world, and that at least a few of them wouldn't treat me like their therapist/whipping girl/mommy/savior. And what do you know? I was right. But even if I'd never found a man that suited my needs, I was prepared at that point to just stay single.

 

Mixed marriages don't have to be tragic--my beloved husband's mom is very Christian, while his dad was an atheist, and they stayed passionately in love their whole lives--but love really isn't all you need. You can love someone very, very much and still not be a viable partner for that person, and that's okay. Right now I see the sexual stuff as being of more importance, but if the sex were totally fine, would you two be happy? No, because then you're still an atheist, and you'll be seeing more work around reaching understanding there. I agree that it might be useful to consult a secular counselor who might be able to help you guys find resolution. You love her, and you're the only one who can really say if the relationship you now have is worth years of your life spent in a potentially fruitless effort to fix her issues one after another. I would really hesitate to sink that kind of time in something that isn't a sure thing, but then again, I'm not you. Seriously, good luck. I am behind you 100% regardless of which route you choose. Welcome to Ex-C. We're here for you.

[mymistake]

I still have particularly bad days with porn. Some days, if I catch my fiancee, I'll just laugh, while other days, I'll completely fly off the handle. It just gets blown so far out of proportion in my head it's not funny.

 

Human sexuality is set up wrong for marriage. Generally speaking one woman cannot satisfy all the sexual needs of one man and no one man alone can satisfy all the sexual needs of a woman.

 

That is why prostitution, brothels, porn, dildos and vibrators exist. Not to mention swinging and affairs.

 

Like I said, the truth is taboo.

[hereticzero]

My wife and I married when we both considered ourselves Christians and we have always had a dynamite sex life. After we left Christianity, our sex life also improved too, fewer distractions and less worries and frustrations. We have been married 19 years now. Our only hell is an 18 year old who is mentally off his nut. Some xtians say that is god's way of getting even but i telll them they are full of shit because he was conceived while we were full of it, the holy ghost that is, so he cannot be the result of god's wrath, although i believe it could be from an ancient curse sometime in the 3rd century(jk). Seriously though, I have always believed that if the only thing holding a couple together is their religious views, then they do not have much of a relationship with each other and they are in danger of ending in divorce. People have to have more than a faith in an invisible fairy, call it god if you want, or their relationship will not last. I think the statistics on divorce rates will prove that assumption.

 

I also have problems with believing someone who drank for a few months is an alcoholic, maybe in your own eyes but may not be in the eyes of those outside your former religion. A person who drinks a lot is not necessarily an alcoholic. A lot of things go into that diagnosis. If a doctor is not concerned with your alcohol consumption, I would not worry about it. I've been drinking for 40+ years and I have yet to have my doctors tell me I am an alcoholic, and I have no health complications as the result of drinking. Drinking in and of itself, does not make one an alcoholic. Addiction and dependence does.

[Akheia]

Rockerlife, something else to consider... If you two are vaguely considering kids, this situation could explode in your face if it's not resolved well before she takes the pregnancy test.

[VacuumFlux]

I'd adding another female's experience that being raised christian can really fuck up your views on sex. It took years to get over a lot of the hangups, to the point where I am now at the level of a normal awkward and confused teenager (I'm in my late 20s).

 

I and other women who've commented here are proof that the christian sex insanity can be dealt with, with a lot of work. However, the common thread to all our stories is "I wanted to change, so I worked on fixing things". If your wife does not want to change, does not see anything wrong about the way she is, then there is nothing you can do. My suggestion, based on very limited guesses about your relationship, is to see if she sees your sex life as a problem, and if not, if she at least can understand that your sex drive is not immoral and if she'd be willing to do something (either work on her own sex drive or at least not freak out about you masturbating) to make your life better. If she insists that there's nothing wrong with her and it's all your problem, then I'd recommend leaving.

 

Since I don't have much advice on breakups, I'm going to be optimistic and try to give some advice about improving your sex life (and hers). I know the porn thing is really touchy for a lot of women, so two ideas there. One is to ask her if, even if she's not in the mood for touching and if this would work for you, if she'd be willing to dress up in something sexy and provide some eye candy to help you masturbate. Or just... generally seeing if you can involve her in your masturbating so she doesn't treat it like cheating, and so she gets used to it and sees it as normal. The other idea about porn is see if she'd be willing to watch some good, realistic (maybe not mainstream) porn with you (though at the point she's at right now, she may just freak out at the thought). Tell her you're ok with her looking at the other men in it. Ask her what does and doesn't look like something she'd want to try.

 

One of my biggest problems with coming to terms with being a sexual being was that I was so conditioned to see sexual thoughts as bad that I had some HUGE mental blocks. The first time a friend openly discussed sex around me I nearly went into shock. Luckily, I realized that this meant I had a problem. I spent several years making a point of discussing sex in a non-threatening manner on a regular basis, stopping when my brain freaked out so bad that I lost the ability to communicate (most of this was online, which helped with the non-threatening; I would get to the point where my mind would retaliate by insisting my hands were too heavy to pick up, therefore I could not reach the keyboard to type. Change the subject, and I was functional again). Eventually, it started taking longer before I'd freak out, then longer. But it took a few years before I could have a conversation about sex without freezing. I had a friends-with-benefits during this too, and I remember at one point (in person) I completely lost the capacity to vocalize and had to pull out some paper and start writing to continue the conversation. I guess that's kinda like a phobia, and I treated it by exposing myself to the subject over and over until I was sufficiently desensitized and able to hold a normal conversation. It did not occur to me at the time to see a shrink about it, but that probably would have helped the whole process happen faster and easier.

[midniterider]

This is my first post here, but i've read all I could find through searching the boards about the topic of marriage and divorce between a christian and athiest. I am mainly looking for a bit of insight.

 

There is way to much to post here about the situation, but to summarize the big points as they appear in my mind:

 

My wife and I were both raised christians and married as christians. Started dating when she was 18 and I was 21, dated 2 years and married, now we've been married nearly 2 years and she's 22 and I'm 25.

When dating we both had similiar interest's, ie. christian death metal (even had a christian death metal band at the wedding!), skating, working out, adventuring, etc. Of course we felt our biggest guarantee of relationship success was that we were raised similiarly and we believed in the same religion. Before meeting her, I had sexual relations with a few women, but when i started dating my now wife we decided to wait until marriage (and she was a virgin until then).

 

 

From the honeymoon onward our sex life was a wreck. She had at first experienced a lot of pain which made me feel very uneasy about it. The pain did subside after about the first month of us slowly working at it. But I was unable to wait for my wife for sexual satisfication...of course I did what is perfectly normal and fine, I took care of things myself while waiting for the married sex to improve. She found out about this and said that it hurt her deeply and from that point on she put up an emotional wall towards me and it started a sick cycle with us. She would be hurt that I masturbated (mostly because the use of porn) and wouldn't want to be sexual which would lead me back to masturbating back and forth. Even if I stopped and promised to never do it again, it would take her to long to really forgive me and take down the emotional wall before I would need to take care of things. Of course I would have rather been with my wife, but it was hard when she was so cold and uninterested. There are a lot more details, but I that is the gist of the beginning. This cycle has gone on for the last 2 years. Our sex life has been an average of 2 to 3 times per month. On top of that, it has only been regular sex for the past year or so. When it does happen, to me it feels like a quicky each time, as in she drops her pants and then as soon as we're both off she jumps off to the bathroom and goes about the day.

She had problems orgasming near the begginning too, but we did work through that with reading books and buying toys and trying different things. I'd say she would be happy with sex once a month if ever and only missionary with a vibe. And yes I tried a multitude of things to spark interest, believe me....

The biggest probelm with our marriage has to be the sex. I feel it has to do a lot with religion. When my wife was 12 she discovered masturbation with orgasm, but after a few months of doing it daily she decided it was WRONG and stopped completely until we were married 9 years later. I think all of those years of repression messed her mind up. I think it would take years of counceling to help with that if ever. The other side is that she would require me to pretty much be celibate and hope that it grows a sexual desire and trust between us. I tried a few times and failed...how can you go weeks without anything?

 

I'm sorry that my post has gotten so long, I will try to summarize up to the current date:

After getting married and feeling depressed about the sexual situation at about the 1 year mark I turned to alcohol and became an alcoholic for nearly 7 months of daily drinking. But I realized what i was doing and I was ruining my life and my marriage even further, since then for about 6 months now it has been under control, truly. I know that this was very dumb on my part and hurt the marriage. At nearly the exact same time that I quit drinking is actually the time were became an athiest through pouring countless hours into youtube vids and books and things on netflix about it all. I felt SO free! The depression was gone and has been ever since and I've had a superb outlook on life and living for the 6 months since then.

I mentioned our interest's because now we no longer share the same interest's that we once did, which is OK as different hobbies can be good. And most importantly we are now no longer the same religion. I have come out and told her about 2 weeks ago as we got into an argument about the sex life stinking and both of us say we can't go on the same way. And now that I'm an athiest she doesn't know how to continue on yet.

 

 

I feel that the marriage is bound to have a bunch of problems with the difference in relgious views. I feel that my wife needs years of counciling to help her workout her sexual issues. i feel my sex drive and practice is normal and fine which goes agaist my wifes religious beliefs and emotionally push's her away.

On the one hand, I feel as such a young guy I shouldn't have to deal with years of counciling and working through it when it might not work out anyway. Instead of having very low amounts of sex and very low amount of physical attention (which I crave and she just isn't ask touchy feely) I could be out dating again. But this time I'd be dating way more people (not looking for a strong christian) and I could have unihibited sex. Even if we were to try to work through things (as we've already been trying for 2 years) there is no guarantee that we'd make it, or that she wouldn't decide that she wants a christian husband. And I feel being an athiest will push me away from her family and push my wife to be closer with them too (and them all against me perhaps). Am I wrong to put so much blame on my wife for our issues?

On the other hand, if I seek divorce I will be losing my best friend. We really get along tremendously well in all ways except sexually and also physically on my side. We haven't even argued over anything except sex pretty much (and the fact that I was an alcoholic when i was). And my wife would become a divorced women in the eyes of christian men. AND there's no guarantee that I would find a better mate out there.

I really love my wife and would hate to hurt her.

 

 

If anyone has been where I am, I would greatly appreciate any advice you have to give. There doesn't seem to be too much readily available info on this subject.

 

It doesnt sound like she is that terribly interested in sex while you ARE! This could result in cheating in the future if changes are not made. You are in the height of your sexual life, being in your twenties. If she is your best friend you could take antidepressants which could kill your sex life, or slow it down enough (possibly) so you could continue to be best friends without the sex problem. Or you could find a sex therapist to try to help both of you.

 

If the problem remains that she has little or no interest in sex and is not going to try to give you what you need physically, and you want to stay with her, then you might want to insist that you WILL be looking at porn and masturbating whenever the need arises. A basic need of men is sex and that trumps any arbitrary religious bullshit rules that may be invented.

 

Regarding best friends, it is possible to find another best friend who is interested in sex. There is no single 'soul-mate' out there.

 

It is easier to divorce without children in the equation. Lots of people have been married more than once.

[blackpudd1n]

Rockerlife, one question I think you need to ask yourself is whether you actually want to be married. Are you ready to be in this relationship, at this level? Are you going to be able to live with not knowing what could have been? And when you think of divorce, how do you feel about it? Do you feel relieved,or do you feel utterly miserable? Is this about the sex, or is this about being in this marriage overall?

 

There's no need to answer these questions, just something to think about. But ultimately, it's not going to really matter to any of us here if you want to get a divorce. We're not in your marriage, you are.

[rockerlife]

WOW, there has been so much support here on this board i'm just amazed. I didn't even think anyone would read my post let alone respond with so much! So much to think about now still. Trying to bring up most of these points with the wife and discuss, but work has prevented a good time to sit down and talk, hopefully this weekend.