Need Some Support Today

[Wings]

Well, I was outed.

On Facebook of all places. And I should know better, but they changed the damn privacy settings again.

 

As I'm sure you are more than aware, deconversion can be a long, painful and even dramatic process. Although I'm definitely agnostic and on my way to be an atheist, I haven't figured it all out and I haven't had time the time to fully accept or recreate my new worldview. I'd describe myself as someone who is still in the place of searching, learning, reading and understanding. Every day I discover something new (the world's NOT 6000 years old?!) and while I knew I'd eventually have to withdraw from my church (they're very strict about enforcing the community, so it's withdraw or be excommunicated), I wasn't ready yet.

 

But after I recently made a questioning comment on a friend's wall post about belief/non-belief (a friend with whom I have long had debates and have no other friends/family in common with), it turned out that the new facebook timeline feature enabled everyone else in my life to see it.

 

No words about it- that's on me. I learned a valuable lesson.

 

But the response from my extended family has been painful and I'm not handling/coping with it very well. I first received a long-winded message from my aunt and uncle questioning my "hardened heart" and how I had become a "slave to the world." I immediately phoned my parents and siblings and had tearful discussions with them but they've agreed to love and support me no matter what, even though they're hurt by my decision to leave. I drafted my withdrawal letter, kindly responded to my aunt and uncle and sent another letter (email) to my extended family politely stating that I love them. Yes, I have made a decision to leave the church, but that I don't expect them to understand (they're an extremely fundamental crowd) and I don't want to try and convince anyone of anything so I'm not going to debate or argue my points. However, i'm still the same person I was last week and my heart is as soft as ever and full of love and that I hope we can continue to have a relationship even though I will officially not be attending church.

 

This morning the emails began.... many I haven't opened or looked at. Especially after the first one called me narcissistic and self-centred and disrespectful.

 

Being a Christian might be hard. Not being one is even harder!

 

I have been in tears all night and all morning because I'm still conflicted myself! It hurts because most of these people haven't ever taken the time to get to know me well (for example, how I lived in Africa working for an NGO, how I've gotten a masters' degree and started a business working with organizations to improve their people policies etc). We're all individualistic and self-centred to a point, but little I have done is purely self-centred (much less a clinical diagnosis of narcissm), and yet it's hard not to take their words to heart.

 

Although I know I can't go backwards, I'm seriously doubting myself, because I was not yet in a solid place with my new worldview. Superstitions and fears such as "this is what you get for turning your back on god" are crowding in and for some messy reason I keep coming across stupid apologetics websites that make me feel anxious.

 

I'm lucky because I know my immediate family loves me (even if they don't understand me) and I've also turned to friends who know and love me and will continue to give me strength through the nasty comments.

 

However, I'm turning to you guys, my "family" here (we may not talk but rest assured I read your posts ALL the time), because almost all of you will "get it" better than anyone else in the world.

 

I'm not sure what I'm asking for, except maybe just a little comfort that I'm not crazy and there is something to this rational logic thing afterall. I can't help but be overcome by the total hypocrisy in the messages I'm getting. I made one comment stating that I wasn't sure if I believed in god, a statement of personal faith not intending to convince anyone of anything, and now I'm being attacked and showered with biblical rhetoric and baloneyisms. Talk about a double standard! And yet, as much as I want to lash back and/or defend myself and my new beliefs, I know they won't hear me anyway. I guess I'm just looking for some hope right now. It might sound dramatic, but family and community has always played a huge role in my life and hearing the personal attacks/rejection heaped on top of Iosing my worldview is really hard. I keep telling myself "this too shall pass", so if you have any stories of encouragement, hope or whatever... please feel free to share and I'm accepting your virtual hugs in advance. Thanks!!

Kristen

 

Sorry my message is so long... just a little worked up today. Thanks in advance for your words and I hope I can show support to others down the road, too!

[Zephie]

Hey Kristen. I am so sorry that you hadd to go through this before you were ready too. *hugs* Welcome to Ex-C! We are here for you to support you. It is good to hear though that your family still loves you. My thoughts are with you. Know that you are not alone so if you to vent, rant, rave, or simply respond to posts feel free to do so. The hypocrisy that you are experiencing is quite disturbing and disgusting coming from people who claim to follow Christ. I don't know you but it's a good bet to say that you are not any of those insults that are being flung after you. The mere fact that you are thinking and questioning is proof that your heart is not hard like they claim.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi Kristen. I don't even have the new FB timeline thing because it's too complicated for me to look at. So I'm not surprised that it did stuff that you weren't prepared for. So the die is cast. I am very sorry that you have been the object of so much negativity and judgmentalism. It does not surprise me in the least, because that's what fundies are trained to do, but it's very sad when it happens. I don't know if there's a Hugs emoticon, so please take this as one: HUGS.

 

I think that the community/personal relationships side of Christianity is one of its strengths, so you're feeling the negative pull of that strong cord. I think it's absolutely understandable that you feel shaken and doubting yourself. You are very "blessed" (lol) that your immediate family are there for you. You are also blessed that there is much diversity in the world. Imagine belonging to a Neolithic tribe of 500 people and telling your family that you are sorry but you can't in conscience belong to the tribe anymore! In our world (not sure where you live, but...) there are other communities that you can become part of as time goes on. When those communities are not organized by ideology, as is Christianity, but are just the bunch of friends you have who know you as you and before whom you can be yourself. You find them as time goes on - and will find them as you are out of the cult.

 

My faith gradually ebbed away but even now sometimes I find myself worrying that maybe there is a hell after all, or maybe the stone was really moved from the tomb by the risen Jesus. Then I go back to some fundamentals, like: the basic absurdity and immorality of the whole belief system; the contradictions in the Bible, which can only be explained away by ridiculously convoluted spin; the way Christianity makes you look askance at most of humanity and feel separate from them; the lack of positive reason to believe; the fact that most people's reason for belief boils down to their experience, so why is their experience more valid for me than my own experience?; etc.

 

The Christian response to someone's lack of belief is so frequently to attack that person's character that it really does show up how weak Christianity is. Who attacks the character of someone who comes to believe that there is no Santa Claus? You could try attacking the character of people who have rejected Jupiter, Juno and Minerva. Look at how the Roman Empire declined after it rejected its ancestral gods, who had defended Rome and made it great. Constantine went off into superstitions about a condemned criminal! The result was barbarian invasions and the dark ages. The Christians were disloyal, narcissistic (going after fantasies of personal relationships instead of doing what Jupiter commanded), disrespectful, and self-centered. I'm joking on one level but on another level am quite serious. How dare your so-called friends attack your character? Muslims would be attacking their character.

 

I think you are quite brave. It's natural for you to feel the emotions you feel. I admire how you have stuck up for truth and are willing to be loving. The best I can think of for you to do is just to keep doing that. You'll find that Christian friendships for the most part are like any other ideological friendship. It fades fast, even instantly, when the ideological context is not there anymore. Maybe a handful who are true friends will be different. Right now you're vulnerable like someone who has just been dumped (which you have been, basically - God dumped you by not existing). I think you are fine and you'll go through the stages of grieving and be stronger as you do.

 

Hugs again, Ficino

[Eugene39]

Sorry that you were outed before you desired to be. Facebook caused me problems also, and am no longer on there, in an effort to remove some stress from my life. I just finished a great little e-book named "The Art of Saying No! (Setting Boundaries)", which is available for 99 cents on Kindle. These people will badger you around to no end. Please realize that you have dignity as a person, and that you have a "Bill of Rights" to be treated with respect, or these people no longer need to be in your life. Just take a few steps back and realize that you don't have to answer every email or phone call, until you are at peace to do so. And if you never are, that's alright too.

 

However, i'm still the same person I was last week and my heart is as soft as ever and full of love....

 

Exactly. That's the true "you". Here's wishing you a better day tomorrow.

[Akheia]

OUCH... that is awful to hear about, these people who were your friends saying such horrible things to you. You're not crazy. You seem pretty reasonable to me, actually. Jesus is love, my left ass cheek; isn't the surest sign he doesn't exist what's happening now? Even his own people don't believe that "forgiveness" and "love thy neighbor" stuff even under the threat of Hell and must resort to abuse and threats to keep people in the fold. Violence, as the great sage Asimov once said, is the last refuge of the incompetent.

 

You know you're the same person you were before this info got out, so I don't think the vile outbursts you've experienced are about you. This is a really challenging time to be a Christian and it seems very likely to me that the people saying these awful things are saying them less to you than to their own sense of threatened security. When someone's security is threatened, they can react in anger and try whatever they can to regain that feeling. I'd hate to think they really think that abusing someone would bring them back to their religion, but religion can bring out a real irrational streak in people. It isn't your fault.

 

I've mentioned that an ex-BF got outed in similar circumstances, but it wasn't even something he could say was out of his control--he always used the same nickname online, and his super-duper-crazy-Catholic mother found him on a Wiccan religious board the first time she ever tried "that there Google thingie." You can bet the fur flew, but you know what? Eventually, she calmed down--just in time to find out her other son was now a practicing Satanist. Rest assured, people will calm down eventually, and there'll be a new scandal for them to think about in due time. It's wonderful that you have the support of your immediate family; you know it can't be easy for them either.

 

This WILL blow over, rest assured, but I think we both suspect that if you lash out in anger it'll take even longer to get past. Eat right, sleep enough, don't let yourself get lonesome. Please do not let people abuse you or trespass your stated boundaries--that's why FB has de-friending, AIM has blocking, and phones have 'end call' buttons. You are not obligated to put up with abuse no matter who's spouting it at you. Nobody has the right to hurt you. Of everything I could say, I'd stress this the most: you do not deserve to be treated poorly, and if someone does try to treat you poorly, you have the complete right to walk away.

 

I'm rooting for you Good luck. (PS: You've fixed up your Google privacy settings, right?)

[Overcame Faith]

Kristen:

 

Welcome to ExC.

 

You are not crazy and there is something to this rational logic thing afterall.

 

I understood everything you said because your thoughts reflected mine when I first left the religion behind. It is true that many of us had to form a new worldview. It's no easy task to go from having the simplistic worldview offered by Christianity to having to virtually start from scratch with no real point of reference. I can remember when, shortly after I determined that Christianity is a great and terrible lie, coming to terms with the fact that there is no Satan, no demons, and no hell. Then I came to realize that original sin was a total lie and that, in fact, there is no such thing as sin, at all. But that, and all the rest, is only shedding false beliefs. It's just the first step and once I took that step, it really hit me that I had to figure out things on my own and, as you know, that is no easy task. For example, after rejecting the biblical view, I had to determine my views on such issues as gay marriage, abortion, general political issues, right and wrong, how to treat people and on and on the list goes. It's been well over four years for me and I am still thinking many of these issues through.

 

You also said that at times you have doubts about whether you are correct in rejecting the religion. You are right, by the way. But I had those same issues. The way I handled that part of it was to study the bible in great detail. The bible is its own worst enemy because it shows itself to be false once the blinders of faith are removed and you can read it with a rational and logical mind.

 

I also know all about how people react to you once you leave. People can be, and often are, so harsh with someone who has the audacity to reject their religion. What I realized that has helped me is that the true believers among your critics are blind and are enslaved in an evil religion. The worst part is that they do not even know they are in the chains and shackles of a false religion, worrying about hell and demons when there are no such things at all.

 

Honestly, there really isn't much you can do to convince the true believers that you are correct and they are wrong. Their faith keeps them from seeing the truth and when you try to explain to them, it will sound like satanic gibberish to them. My advice is simple: only worry about yourself in this matter. Do what it takes to build your worldview, to shed the last vestiges of the religion, and build your life on truth. You will encounter the nasty, judgmental, hell and damnation from them, but when you hear it you will know that they are the ones who merit pity, not you. You merit praise for doing what for some is the impossible task - seeing the truth.

 

Best of luck to you.

[florduh]

Overcame Faith +1.

 

The good part is that the news that you have an opinion that differs from some friends and family is out. You won't spend months/years worrying about how to fool them, wondering when is the right time to be honest with them, and fearing how they'll react. You're free!

 

Remember, you have wronged nobody - regardless of how they might whine. If there's a problem, it's their doing, not yours.

[Wings]

Thank you everyone for your kind and thoughtful responses. It really has helped me and I know I've made the right decision(s).

 

Re. some of the comments:

My privacy/search settings definitely changed and I made sure to include boundaries in my withdrawal letter stating that I will not respond to emotional abuse in the form of harassment, threats (physical or otherwise), unnecessary guilt, minimizing of my character or beliefs etc. and sent them a link to Public Health's info about emotional abuse. I'm from Canada and you're right, there are so many more people and communities to belong to and I'm excited to see what the future holds, now that my life belongs to me! I know I can't change anyone, but I hope there may be doubters that I can be an example to, so I'll stay on the "high road." I also appreciate the advice on how to "get back to reality" and assuage fears. Thanks for your advice and sharing your stories!!

 

Looking forward to continuing to connect with you and wishing you all the best on your journeys as well. Thanks soooooo much! Kristen

[oddbird1963]

Wow, Kristen! That makes for a very tough week.

 

I understand the feeling of being in uncharted waters. I know you would've preferred to take more time to work things out in your mind and become well grounded before communicating your newfound unbelief.

 

And then the age old "shame game" with "blame the doubter" and "your corrupt . . . hard hearted . . . <insert hurtful, unfounded accusation here>."

 

They don't know better. It's a reaction to someone suddenly becoming an outgrouper. That's instinctual. And it's a reaction to overcompensate for their own insecurities about the faith. They can feel better for trying to get you back in the fold through intimidation and shame rather than look at the strength of their own positions. They don't know better but they should.

 

I'm glad you seem to be adapting yourself to the new stressors. I'm not surprised. You seem like a strong, driven and resourceful woman. Let those personal strengths see you through. You'll come out of this alright.

 

Hang in there and don't be shamed or intimidated. You're just foll lowing the truth as you see it. Why wouldn't you?

[mymistake]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

Something like this is bound to happen to me sooner or later. I hope you able to shrug off these attacks. There is a school of thought that says events only have as much meaning as you give them. So when someone is being a monster to you let that only effect how much you value their opinion. So if they are a raging fundy nut then their opinion is worthless. Decide to not care what a raging fundy nut thinks. As you decide that these temper tantrums only harm the reputation of those throwing them you will find they are less upsetting to you.

 

Don't feel guilty about cutting people out of your life or giving them boundaries. You can do it temporarily or permanently depending on how you see the situation and their progress, if any. It's your life so you should be the one in control.

 

It's not your fault Christianity is false. It's not your fault Christians lied to you and claimed they know things they don't know. It's not your fault that you can't believe the fairy tails anymore. It's not your fault that Christians hate people who are different. Time will heal you. Stay strong.

[♦ ficino ♦]

I also remember when I was giving up Calvinism my Calvinist mentor told me that I was afflicted with the sin of pride. By that time I had realized that NO ONE is immune from the accusation of being prideful. (Though lots of the time Christians call pride what a normal person would call a healthy sense of self and a healthy use of their own brain.) In my reply to him I was tempted to accuse him of pride but didn't, just chuckled.

[Wings]

Again, thank you.

 

To Ficino: my reformed tradition is also heavily (heavily) steeped in Calvinism and I have learned the doctrine of predestination from a young age. The irony is not lost on me that people will call me names and be cruel in an attempt to get me back into "the fold", when they should really be angry at god. Afterall, he's the one who predestined that I wouldn't be going to heaven. So, it seems were damned if we do, damned if we don't. Of course, no one else (that I know of in my tradition) wonders about this...

[Wings]

** Thank you to everyone for their thoughts and best wishes.

 

And in my second paragraph, "we're" not "were". Haha. I'm getting used to how to post on here... I'm clearly VERY grateful that this forum is different than facebook, but I don't know if I can edit my previous comments.

 

I'm also grateful and excited to have this connection with you guys, really. I see that we are from all over and many walks of life and it feels very special to know that this group is here to provide access to knowledge and compassion. I already find your comments unconditionally warmer and more accepting than anything I've ever experienced through church and look forward to being able to share with and support you. - K

[Coconutz]

Hi Kristen! Welcome to Ex-C from a fellow Canadian. I'm so sorry to hear of what you're going through. I'm out with my husband (who fortunately accepts me for what I believe) but not with my friends or the rest of my immediate family. I can imagine how scary and isolating it would be to be outed before you're ready. It's funny how Christians will insult you and call it their attempt to bring you back...as if making you feel bad is going to make you come back. The don't realize it has the opposite effect of pushing you further away. Not that you can go back anyway because of what you now know about Christianity but you know what I mean. They think bullying will force you to come back... Baffling... Anyway, I really hope it all turns out well for you. I think your family and friends just need some time to get used to it.

[freeasabird]

Their vitriole should be all the evidence you need that they are on shaky ground. Logic trumps out of control emotions every time, and you are winning. I got outed on facebook as well. My attacker sadly enough was a fraternity brother from college. He came out swinging and I immediately took the high ground, pulled it offline into a private dialogue, and handed his ass to him.

[Paine]

Remind them of that whole "free will" thing--that whole "personal relationship" thing? Remind them hat you are merely an atheist who believes in only ONE FEWER GOD than they...since I am certain none of them are lining up to worship Allah.....

 

Then politely request that it is NONE OF THEIR DAMNED BUSINESS.

 

And then.......and this is the REEEEEEALLY important part>>>>>>>>>>

 

BE AS SUPER NICE TO ANY OF THEM AS YOU CAN STAND TO BE, being sure to POINT OUT to them that they appear to be the ones with the hard hearts.

 

In this case, you have to kill them with kindness, otherwise the very basis for their argument will be..."See, she's a devil atheist...mean and nasty."

 

It sucks, but it will strengthen you in the end. And you are SO RIGHT.....being on the outside is worse than being a believer.

[Deva]

About all I can say, Kristen. is that you have come to the right place. Many of us have been through this and come out the other side. Some of us are still in the closet for various reasons, but now the cat's truly out of the bag for you. At least you don't have to pretend.

 

People do not have the right to impose their personal world view on you, especially the Christian one, because we all know its bogus. I know its your family and you have to tread lightly, but don't let them make you feel like you are mistaken. They are mistaken. Their world view is wrong.

 

No, you are not crazy, they are.

[owen652]

ha, you have discovered the same thing i did; that this forum is very different. I keep expecting people to respond with sarcasm, nastiness and vitriol, but it hasn't happened yet. very weird.

[Wings]

Owen, it's funny that you say this. I have been cringing all day every time I look at my computer. It's like, do I dare to check my email to do work etc. and take a chance there will be another admonition or just ignore it altogeter. And it translates to this as well and makes me sad at the the expectations we have, too as every time I read a new post I hold my breath a little. I'm almost overwhelmed by the positive and gracious attitudes of people on here! Again, sad!

[Margee]

Welcome to EX-c Kristen! So sorry you had to turn to us 'non-believers; for help. you won't get it from the christians that's for sure. You got discovered in a big way!! Wow, I am so sorry - this must be so overwhelming!! Take your time. Post here for awhile - stay away fron FB if you can until you know how you're going to handle this.

 

I can give you a little bit of my 2 cents at how I handled the believers. I told them I was in 'a dark night of the soul'...I was having some doubts about god.. I was feeling very distant from god......I was going through a 'doubting Thomas syndrome....... etc......... and all the good little christians would just smile and put their arms around me and told me they were going to pray real hard for me......I thanked them. That's how I got some of them away from me!! I lied!!

 

so their still all on their knees praying for god to deliever me from satans grip!

 

You stay here with us..you are not crazy.. you are a deep thinker like most of us. Your going to be OK.

Post all your concerns and lots of suggestions will be given to you!

 

Welcome to your new life of freedom!! Do not fight with the christians because you will be wasting all your precious time.

 

Sincerely, Margee

[par4dcourse]

Welcome to the forums, Kristen.

Isn't amazing how that famous christian love evaporates at the hint of another opinion?

We non-believers aren't popular, just honest.

[Kurari]

Oh honey, I'm so sorry.

 

That's really harsh. They have no right to be judging you at all, especially since Jesus EXPLICITLY said not to. They are being hypocrites.

 

You don't have to justify yourself to anyone. Delete all the messages and don't even bother reading or responding to them. It's NOT their business.

 

This is sadly too common a story around here. People are going to walk in and out of your life over this. And it will hurt a lot watching some turn their back and leave you for no good reason but because their religion has made them hard and selfish. It's not going to be fair, and it's not going to be right. You'll probably feel grief. That's okay. It's all part of the process.

 

Keep being loving and being who you are. There are people who are going to see that and focus on that no matter what. They are the true gems of the world that you deserve to have in your life.

 

 

And don't forget that we've already showed up in your life, and you can always come talk to us when you need us. That's what we're here for.

 

Welcome to Ex-C!

[buffettphan]

Those 'loving' christians sure treat us rotten, don't they!?! This place is a sanctuary from the religious craziness that surrounds us. Glad you're here.

[noob]

Welcome, Kristen! Just reading your post took me back to the time when I really needed to tell my friends and family that I no longer believed in god and when I needed to stop attending church every Sunday. I agonized over the telling and I was especially worried about telling my mother. (Mind you, I was 53 years old at the time which is a little old to be worried about mom’s reaction!) One Saturday evening during a phone conversation, my mom said, “I WILL see you in church tomorrow, won’t I?” and without knowing I was going to do it, I told her I was having a problem with that. By the end of the conversation, I had admitted that I didn’t believe and she had told me she wished she had died a few years earlier (when her heart had stopped during a surgery) so she would never have to know how I felt.

 

It was ugly and I was traumatized, but with the support of this fabulous group I not only survived but I was so happy and relieved to put the admission behind me and move on. And you know what? Nothing bad came of it. Yes, I lost a few “church” friends when I stopped attending but I have awesome friends who love me for who I am, not for what I believe. Mom survived and I am really surprised at the lack of pressure and manipulation.

 

So, I’ve shared all of that to let you know that I think you might find that your accidental outing is actually a very good thing. Don’t let anyone make you feel bad about it. If they are upset it is their problem, not yours.

 

Stay strong and keep us updated!

 

Hugs,

noob

[Voice]

Hi Kristen

You already said what i was going to say about finding new family, and that "this too shall pass".

 

I want to discorage your reading any more of the messages/emails you're getting from people you know are christians. They will only do you harm. Let them go, unread, deleted.

They say god's wrath is on those who abandon their faith, but don't ever forget it's their wrath alone. You should immediately start deleting christians from your fb friends list who assault you now. Show them you're in control by not validating them in any way, by invalidating them. Realize they will never help you again, ever.

 

The best thing you can do now is not talk to any of these people. It was hard for me too. In one week i lost every friend i had. No turning back. It hurts.

Start building your new families now and make as many new friends as you can now.

You're more than welcome to take up residence here. There are many houses in the kingdom of ex-chriatian.net for those who don't do the will of fundies.