lyall Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I left christianity six days ago. I am losing everything as well as a substantial number of marbles. I became a christian at the age of 8.... I am now 49. You can imagine the vast pile of sh*t I am entrapped in now and all because I put it there turd by turd. I am fond of blaming myself - well, I have been told that everything was always my fault over the last forty years. Finding Jesus was an accident much as being born is an accident. "God has a plan"... oh really? - is it as big as his sense of humour? WTF am I supposed to do now? I cannot come out of the religion closet and make a life-changing announcement - all I am and all I have is wrapped up in this charade. My wife whom I married when still a teenager has been ill since her mid-twenties and is still waiting patiently for god to heal her and give her back her lost years - should I break the "good news" to her and kick away the final crutch of support ? She says god is the only thing that keeps her alive - never mind the vast array of medication and the attention of her doting carer (me) - should I say "curse god and die" like Job's wife did? My head is full of scripture - it is full of occasions when god appeared to directly answer a prayer for guidance straight out of the bible - it is full of the times when people unknown to me walked up to me with an astounding word of knowledge - I am haunted by the spectacle of my daughter as a nine year old walking past a row of grown men, reaching up and delicately placing a fingertip on the forhead of each of them and uttering the words "in Jesus name" and seeing them crumple to the floor one after the other, dozens of them. My head is full of the times when I prayed with strangers and accurately told them what their problems were : the times when I would be introduced to a newcomer in the church and I would accurately predict "troublemaker" ; the times when I laid hands on people and felt their pain. I could tell you stuff that would make you fall off your chair but to do so would reveal too much of my identity - any one reading this who knows me will already be suspicious but to be overly specific would give me away and I cannot handle that right now. So what is my problem ? It is simply this: no-one gets religion without someone introducing them to it - no one gets bothered by demons without learning about them first from christianity - no one gets healed just because someone prayed for them as if those not prayed for would be ignored by god( it is unbalanced) - the scripture says he knows what we need before we ask for it but its still a case of "dont ask dont get" which is overwhelmingly childish. I dont have to go on about prayer and world suffering or hell and the innocent or original sin or any of the myriad biblical contradictions - you all know about them at length. If god is god then why place fragile human beings on a planet with earthquakes - deadly diseases - volcanoes - sunamis ? It is nothing to do with the earth groaning because of mans sin - that is blatant poppycock. If our sinful thought life could cause hurricanes then pleasant thoughts would bring out the sunshine ! The "order" of creation is flawed - things like seams of coal took far longer to form than the time trees are supposed to have been here. "The lion will eat straw like the bull" - I doubt that, given the lion's dentition ! "See the birds in the heavens - your heavenly father feeds them". Actually some of them eat each other - like the Sparrowhawk for example - and while we are on the subject... all of creation is in a food chain - there is nothing dainty about it. The spider injects the fly with a muscle relaxant not a painkiller and the fly is kept alive while its insides are liquified and sucked out. Now I apologise for that kind of detail but creation is rampant with it - it just ain't nice and I really think that whoever or whatever created life on this planet was undoubtedly very clever but very much an amateur - I don't feel part of a loving god's creation - I feel more like I am part of an experiment but of course that is taking things far beyond the remit of this website and there are far more pressing matters at hand and since I am involved in live worship, recorded worship and cell group teaching I have to ask "what the hell do I do next?" Regards and best wishes, Lyall 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 24, 2012 Welcome to EX-c Lyall.... the house of havenots, the heathens and the rejects!! I am saving your post to my favorites!! You summed up a 200 page apologetic book in one page!! As painful as this is for you, I could almost feel you getting all this shit off your mind with your writing.! If you read through the 'testimomies' section, you are going to see hundreds of these painful rants. I think most of us ended our testimonies with, "what the hell do I do next?" It's a hard place for you right now - I can see that. A sick wife who is waiting for the lord to heal her and you still being invovled with the church to such a large degree. I would take a deep breathe and blow out nice and slow. Take your time. One minute at a time. Don't do anything irrational until you get your head wrapped around this whole new 'non-belief'. Read as much as you can on the forums. There are all kinds of people in the exact same boat as you. Keep posting here. Friends will make lots of great suggestions to you. I am really sorry that you are going through this - I was sooooooo angry when I lost my faith. I always felt so different than others because I questioned way too many things. I never liked the fact that the spider sucks out his victim alive!!! I found out things like god made shrimps eyes better than ours!!! I always told god his plan was stupid...even when I was a christian!! And I always thought That I could have made a better world than him!! I was ALWAYS mad at god. I am sooo happy that I don't have to be angry anymore. Life just simply makes more sense to me without the christian god. ....but then the trouble begins when you want to tell the believers you don't believe anymore...Keep posting my friend - we're here for ya! sincerely, Margee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyall Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Thank you Margee, It is only a few minutes since I posted but I was already thinking like a marginalised christian " what if no one is interested in my topic - what if they are all far too interested in "other" topics to bother with me - after all, I am not in their "clique"- i am a newbie " Then you posted and brought me back to reality - this is not like church where you can walk in as a lonely stranger then walk out feeling strangely lonlier ! Thanks again.... Lyall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 25, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2012 Thank you Margee, It is only a few minutes since I posted but I was already thinking like a marginalised christian " what if no one is interested in my topic - what if they are all far too interested in "other" topics to bother with me - after all, I am not in their "clique"- i am a newbie " Then you posted and brought me back to reality - this is not like church where you can walk in as a lonely stranger then walk out feeling strangely lonlier ! Thanks again.... Lyall You will make friends here real fast!! You're one of us!!! Wait till the whole board arrives!! Here's my 'rant' from one year ago - I know you'll relate!! http://www.ex-christ...ase-forgive-me/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi, Lyall, and welcome to exC. I am sorry to read that your wife is having health problems. You only just left Christianity behind (6 days ago). That can be a terribly difficult time. It can make your head spin as it did mine and so many other people's. It's especially difficult to deal with when there were things you experienced like you described that you were so sure was god at work in your life or the lives of your loved ones. The good news for you is that you are not alone in all of this. Many of us had very similar occurrences and the same feelings you are having now. Give yourself time and it will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyall Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wow Margee, That was certainly some rant ! I can identify with every aspect. There I am being all things to all people and there they are being in cliques ! There i am saying dear god I know your people aren't perfect but you love them - unless their healing is too tricky, or their financial situation beyond repair, or they really are the kind of person you could never find a partner for - or they are permanently barren - or they have a limb missing - and GOD I AM RUNNING OUT OF EXCUSES - YOU MAY HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOUR CRITICS YOURSELF ! You know something Margee... I would love to have god as a neighbour - he would be so much more quiet than the ones we have right now - lol. By the way - thanks again for that link, do you have any others you could direct me to ? Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyall Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Thank you rationalist - i can see the mountain before me getting bigger and bigger but it is the utmost comfort to me to know that people are reading my post and sympathising... i mean people here actually understand me and are not about to chew me out for having lack of faith. Kind regards - Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Thank you rationalist - i can see the mountain before me getting bigger and bigger but it is the utmost comfort to me to know that people are reading my post and sympathising... i mean people here actually understand me and are not about to chew me out for having lack of faith. Kind regards - Lyall People on here are more likely to give you a hearty handclap for losing your faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello Lyall, welcome to ex-C. Sorry to hear about your wife. If you really expect her to die soon I would not recommend telling her about your new change. No need to burden her further. It's sad that we are doomed to lose loved ones. I sorry but words are all I have to offer. In time the anger, fear and other nonsense that Christianity programed into you will begin to fade. Though my situation is not quite the same is was similar. I became a Christian at age six and three and a half decades later I left about a year ago. Christianity can do funny things to someone if left to fester. As for what next, lots of people work in church and the "ministry" industry even if they don't believe anymore. Just keep doing your job and you have steady employ. It's not your fault Christianity is nonsense. You have to decide what changes you want to make and what to do if your status change becomes public knowledge. If you are like me then you probably have an aunt or cousin who would pester you in order to "save" you. It's best to not let them know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 25, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wow Margee, That was certainly some rant ! I can identify with every aspect. There I am being all things to all people and there they are being in cliques ! There i am saying dear god I know your people aren't perfect but you love them - unless their healing is too tricky, or their financial situation beyond repair, or they really are the kind of person you could never find a partner for - or they are permanently barren - or they have a limb missing - and GOD I AM RUNNING OUT OF EXCUSES - YOU MAY HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOUR CRITICS YOURSELF ! You know something Margee... I would love to have god as a neighbour - he would be so much more quiet than the ones we have right now - lol. By the way - thanks again for that link, do you have any others you could direct me to ? Lyall there are sooo many good posts to read - you could be up all night!! The best place to start is one the main page, Testimonies of former christians'. Here's some good reading I posted a while back! A GREAT article!! http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/48913-how-to-deprogram-your-own-mind/page__fromsearch__1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Lyall Welcome to ex-christian. Hang around! People are generally kind and gentle here. There is a great deal of freedom in just being able to think straight without trying to contort your thoughts around making excuses for some irrational doctrine. After a while, thinking straight can beome quite relaxing. There are many others on the ex-Christian forums going through the same things as you. Just keep reading the new posts as they are added and you'll find some buddies along the pathway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 25, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome! Sorry about your wife's illness. I've seen unfounded, blind faith help people cope with infirmities and other insurmountable circumstances. Maybe in her condition it helps. You don't have to share that faith, however. "what the hell do I do next?" Something else. I know, sounds simplistic and smart-assed, but it's the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome, lyall! I know you will find lots of support here. I hope you also find some peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyall Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Thank you Margee, Overcame faith, MyMistake, Blue Elephant, Your words of affirmation are a tonic to me. Even if I never find a way out of all this just to have the ex-c kind of response is so different from the fire and brimstone christian or the totally apathetic non believer who has no experience. This actually is the only place I can feel "normal". Margee thanks for that other link - I may well be up all night... it is already 2 a.m. here. Kind regards - Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyall Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Thank you Floriduh and Noob, Your reassurances are gratefully accepted. Regards, Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted February 25, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C. This place is a sanctuary of sanity in the middle of a crazy-christian* world! Glad you're here. * and other religions too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What do you do next? Well, nothing too drastic. The same way you can only sip a very hot drink at first, but shortly after you can drink it without being cautious. Stay on Ex-C, post, ask, learn, read, watch. It'll help you come to terms with everything. I wouldn't tell your wife right away, not until you feel ready to. You've got to figure out the best way to explain your new position to her, hopefully avoiding any conflict. And don't think of your old life as wasted years, you're still a human being, things like this happen, try not to be hard on yourself. Think of all of this as a new adventure, a brand new shining chapter in the book of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C Lyall! My heart sank as I read about your wife. There are no words for what you're going through, especially as a primary caregiver. I wish I could heal your wife. Life is so hard and I feel angry that life has dealt you this hand. A similar situation in my life drove my faith from me also, after decades of charismatic belief. I can write more tomorrow--darn tablet too arduous. You've come to the right place! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome Lyall, sorry about your wife but methinks you are a good person for sticking with her. A doofus would have found a "biblical" reason to abandon his mate as we have seen already with the wooish crowd. No advise regarding your wife but I guess love transcends imaginary friends. perhaps share more regarding your wife, maybe someone will have pertinent advice. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome, Lyall, and be at ease. You and your lovely wife have been through so much. You don't have to do anything at all right now. Some people take years to process their deconversion. The emotions welling up inside someone losing their faith can be overwhelming to the point where it feels like a roller-coaster. I was married to a fundamentalist preacher when I realized that the Bible lies constantly about prayer--and the ride lurched to a start. Please don't feel like you have to do anything immediately. It's okay if you're still a little stunned and don't immediately come out. Some people take years to go the whole nine yards and some people never feel safe doing so. Sometimes it's better to sit and wait and gather information before things get hectic. In that vein, I love this link's info: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello Lyall, I join the others so far in welcoming you, and I second the advice to let things gel in your mind. Each day is a new beginning is a cliche but also true. Best, and see you around on here, Ficino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hey there! I too am sick (though I doubt nearly as sick as your wife) and my parents always tell me they're praying to God to heal me. They hear other stories of people who are "healed" and automatically think "If God can do that, then he can heal you!" Nevermind the fact that no one with my condition has EVER been healed. It's medicine, the human body, and your own perseverance that can even make you get through being ill. When people use examples of others coming back from the brink of death as some sort of proof for God's existence, I just shake my head and wonder how many others underestimate the capability of the body to heal itself. This site has been a huge help for me, I hope it's as good for you as it has been for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconutz Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C lyall! Keep reading and posting on these forums - you'll find the people here to be a huge support and encouragement to you as you figure out your new mindset. I know that's how I've felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Welcome and sorry to hear of your pain. I can only imagine, (maybe I cannot, actually), how terrible it feels after having been fed and believed the lies. There are several books I can think of that may help you understand some things, such as why people 'need' religion, and how religions came to be, which make you feel better about yourself and your situation. Robert Wright's The Evolution of God is a really good one, very positive. As I mentioned on another thread, there is also Karen Armstrong, or Joseph Campbell. Or maybe you are in the mood for some atheistic rants, there's always Dawkins, Hitchens, etc. You may very well be angry for quite a while, and perhaps those 'angry atheists' will help you out. BTW I have quite a few buddies who are deconverted ministers or priests, etc. I don't know why I seem to attract them (or maybe there are just so many of them out there!) but you are certainly not alone in having spent decades in Christianity. If you enjoy church for its social aspects (and also to get together with other de-converts) try a Unitarian church. And perhaps seek out some very meaningful volunteer work, work which lets you be the very best you can be, and useful to others. It always helps me feel good about myself to do that kind of thing. All the best to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hey, Lyall--me again! I agree with all the others here: this is probably the hardest time in losing your faith. The deprogramming, however, can take years. Those of us who were in it from an early age--and so deeply at that--seem to almost have to re-wire our brains to think logically and properly. We have decades years glossing over and ignoring the obvious, in favor of a belief or conviction, that we have to re-train our brains how to evaluate evidence rationally. We have also spent decades using backwards reasoning--starting with our conclusions and then creating faulty premises to add up to our conclusion. We have to learn logic all over again, some of us. I know many people like your wife--ill for decades and still waiting: people with spinal cord injury, chronic fatigue, head injury, depression, cancer and severe migraine disorder--you name it. Waiting. These things turned my faith sour, just watching them fade away while God did nothing. The beginning of the end for me was when I stopped making excuses for the inaction of God. I didn't realize it at the time, but that was my first step away from God. I wish I could do something to tangibly help you both. Please stick around and keep us posted. Most of us don't bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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