Legion Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Look, this is where I am coming from. I have an intuition here. Not a solid understanding. I am here to share this intuition and I hope to explore it with your help. That is how I am approaching this discussion. Do any of you think this is an unreasonable expectation? Sorry friend! What you've got doesn't sound like much of a reason to enter into a debate with you. I hope that doesn't sound unreasonable. BAA. This is so discouraging. I have a solid intuition here. And I know it. It is not a full blown understanding yet. And I can't seem to find anyone interested in exploring the intuition with me. And the thing is, I suspect that whoever explores with me will gain too! But no, the intuition is not worthy. discouraging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is so discouraging. I have a solid intuition here. And I know it. It is not a full blown understanding yet. And I can't seem to find anyone interested in exploring the intuition with me. And the thing is, I suspect that whoever explores with me will gain too! But no, the intuition is not worthy. discouraging You guys are speaking different languages. You are speaking poetry while others are speaking science or philosophy. You can't communicate because you are talking about different things. However, how about a science philosophy poem? There once was a lady named Bright Whose speed was much faster than light. She set out one day In a relative way, And returned the previous night. -Geri Taran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 You guys are speaking different languages. You are speaking poetry while others are speaking science or philosophy. MM, is that how it looks from your perspective? I don't recall doing poetry in this thread. My aim was to speak of causality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You guys are speaking different languages. You are speaking poetry while others are speaking science or philosophy. MM, is that how it looks from your perspective? I don't recall doing poetry in this thread. My aim was to speak of causality. You are using intuition and association. I guess calling that poetry was my spin on things. Never the less you are not going to reverse causality without traveling through time or traveling faster than light. If you can prove otherwise then you just might win the Nobel prize in physics. You are bucking against every observation we have ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 You guys are speaking different languages. You are speaking poetry while others are speaking science or philosophy. MM, is that how it looks from your perspective? I don't recall doing poetry in this thread. My aim was to speak of causality. You are using intuition and association. I guess calling that poetry was my spin on things. Never the less you are not going to reverse causality without traveling through time or traveling faster than light. If you can prove otherwise then you just might win the Nobel prize in physics. You are bucking against every observation we have ever made. sigh MM, do you believe organisms have anything to teach us about causality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 sigh MM, do you believe organisms have anything to teach us about causality? Sure. It all follows the arrow of time. Effects come after the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 sigh MM, do you believe organisms have anything to teach us about causality? Sure. It all follows the arrow of time. Effects come after the cause. Nevermind. You seem to know all you need to know MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nevermind. You seem to know all you need to know MM. Actually I don't. However I tend to follow the evidence. If you have some let me know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nevermind. You seem to know all you need to know MM. Actually I don't. However I tend to follow the evidence. If you have some let me know. Will do! smartass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You guys are speaking different languages. You are speaking poetry while others are speaking science or philosophy. MM, is that how it looks from your perspective? I don't recall doing poetry in this thread. My aim was to speak of causality. You are using intuition and association. I guess calling that poetry was my spin on things. Never the less you are not going to reverse causality without traveling through time or traveling faster than light. If you can prove otherwise then you just might win the Nobel prize in physics. You are bucking against every observation we have ever made. Back again Legion! (Having thought about this for a while.) I have to agree with MM here. Specifically, what he says about us speaking different languages. I was cutting my (metaphorical) cloth according to the Rules laid down for the Coliseum. Debate is confrontational. Sorry, but that's just a fact. The Coliseum is a forum for debate. That's a fact too. So, asking someone not to confront you over this is effectively asking them not to have a debate with you, not to confront you and not to defend their position. As disappointing and discouraging as this is, please tell me that you understand the above. That you were asking for a non-debate in a debating arena. That you were trying to speak non-debating language where it was inappropriate. So, it's not your fault that we're not going anywhere and it's not my fault, it's nobody's fault - we were trying to force a square peg into a round hole, ok? With that idea in mind I can see that you weren't being rude when you called me defensive and entrenched. You were just perplexed and frustrated at what you saw as my overly-confrontational approach, right? Likewise, I couldn't understand why you were getting so upset when I was just doing what the Coliseum demanded - confronting you and defending my position. So, let's put all that bad feeling behind us and start over. Yes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (Offers an olive branch in an open hand.) Now, I see a Yin/Yang symbol superimposed on your wolf avatar. Balance and harmony, right? Well, how about this? A balanced approach would give equal weight to Observation and Intuition, wouldn't it? To say that only observations count would be unbalanced and to say that only intuition counts would be equally unbalanced. Both paradigms should be taken into account and, if possible, reconciled with each other. Therefore, we should listen to you and hear what you have to say about intuition - without trying to shoot it down. Giving you space and a chance to 'solidify' your thoughts. Ok? Likewise, you should meet us halfway and try to define and articulate what you mean more clearly, whenever we ask you to do so. That cool with you? This could be a potentially useful learning experience for all concerned and I think we should grasp this opportunity with both hands. If this means putting the Coliseum rules on hold for a while and putting debate to one side for a bit, I'm ok with that. How about you Legion? Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well BAA, the Coliseum rules state that the place is for more formal debate. I take that to imply that it shouldn't be another Lion's Den. That is, if debate occurs here then it should be an elevated debate. I don't take it to mean that debate must occur here. I think where I went wrong is that at the beginning I stated what was is only an intuition, as solid understanding. That invites opposition I believe. I essentially agree with you that understanding is often built from the union of observation and intuition. I certainly welcome the opportunity to bounce ideas off of you guys. And I think together we might find some understanding. Given this new development between us, perhaps we should abandon this thread and begin an new one? Maybe something along the lines of... an exploration of causality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thanks for responding, Legion! Well BAA, the Coliseum rules state that the place is for more formal debate. I take that to imply that it shouldn't be another Lion's Den. That is, if debate occurs here then it should be an elevated debate. I don't take it to mean that debate must occur here. I'm cool with that. I think where I went wrong is that at the beginning I stated what was is only an intuition, as solid understanding. That invites opposition I believe. Yes, I can see how I might have misunderstood you. Sorry 'bout that! I essentially agree with you that understanding is often built from the union of observation and intuition. I certainly welcome the opportunity to bounce ideas off of you guys. And I think together we might find some understanding. Great! As far as I can see, if we cut each other some slack, everybody benefits. Given this new development between us, perhaps we should abandon this thread and begin an new one? Maybe something along the lines of... an exploration of causality? Yes. A looser, more exploratory style of discussion (not debate) may well be the best way to proceed. Ideas, hunches, intuitions, etc. can be treated on an equal basis with facts, data and evidence - no need to shoot the other guy down in flames. Things can be tested, but not to the point of destruction, only to see where they take us. So, I'm on board if you are Legion! Thanks, BAA. p.s. On a personal note, I'm very pleased that we've agreed to turn this around. When intelligent, well-read and intuitative (? is that even a 'proper' word) people put aside their differences and unite their efforts, better understanding must surely follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 So, I'm on board if you are Legion! Absolutely. I have a few vague ideas for an new OP. I will proceed to do that, if you have no objections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So, I'm on board if you are Legion! Absolutely. I have a few vague ideas for an new OP. I will proceed to do that, if you have no objections. Go for it, friend! BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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