Guest Valk0010 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I confess to Christians, that I don't know know enough about biology and other associated fields to really say that song correct. But lets assume that its correct. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/morality mo·ral·i·ty [muh-ral-i-tee, maw-] Show IPA noun, plural -ties for 4–6. 1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct. 2. moral quality or character. 3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity. 4. a doctrine or system of morals. 5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance. While you can't really derive a moral system from our origins (its like trying to make a apple a orange, its just different things). I think it does have something to say about the christian concept of sin. Worm theology comes to mind. I think our origins debunk the christian concept of sin. We couldn't have survived the problems we have had, if we were these weak little scum people. As hitchens likes to say, religion degrades us. This is one example. We supposedly don't need a god get where we have. Yet religion teaches us, we are incapable slime. Religion destroys any sense of value. It tells us we are incapable of understanding. By just simply the fact that we have gotten here as a species. It shows that we have value outside of god, and capable of figuring things out. We are better then god gives us credit for. I dunno maybe this might not convince a christian, but I don't see how this isn't true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Religion belittles us as humans. We truly are greater than the Bible says we are. Just look at the other highly intelligent species we share our planet with. Its clear that dolphins, whales, and apes also have highly developed senses of morality. I tried arguing this with a christian. I told him how Chimps have law and order, crime and punishment. All he did was make jokes about how we don't see monkeys in court with judge robes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I find the "Symphony of Science" videos to be very inspiring. The one you posted is so true and tells us a lot about ourselves. Ultimately, we are all Africans, one people whose specific colors and other physical features changed over the millenia due to the environments that people lived in after leaving Africa. The thing about the Christian concept of sin is that it is not even based on true notions of morality. What is sinful and not sinful, according to Christian theology, resides solely on their alleged god's concept. For example, what is so moral about the first four commandments? Nothing. All they are designed to do is to trap people into the YHWH cult since they all revolve around our alleged relationship with him. What is so moral about requiring an atoning sacrifice by the alleged son of god? Nothing, particularly since if this god existed he could have forgiven sins any way he chose. What is so moral about eternal punishment in hell? Nothing. It completely ignores one of our true moral requirements related to crime and punishment - proportionality between the crime and punishment. That's why one does not get the death penalty for a speeding ticket. Yet, this so-called god allegedly requires eternal torment for even fantasizing about having sex with a married woman (not a married man if you read the bible literally since it only specifies thinking of adultery with a married woman). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I once heard a woman say that sin is anything which disrupts community. I can sort of see where she's coming from I guess, but I don't buy it. I think facts, and new understanding often disrupt community. Ces la vie. Troll = sinner ? unfeeling = insincere robot ? Balance... and I think good wit often gently dips into the shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think the is/ought gap (logical fallacy of driving an ought from an is) is wrong. Human health and well-being are both within the scope of scientific research, and science shows what is good and bad for humans. We can derive "oughts" from what humans are. That's why we have health care! Well, those of us who could afford it! What other standard could there be that is relevant to human relationships? Religion has proven to be a danger to human health, bot physically and psychologically. If morality is not grounded within the makeup of sentient beings and facts of reality, there can BE no morality. When it is grounded upon a religion, reality is turned upside down and anything goes. We know that "sin" is a religious concept that goes against human well-being. We here at Ex-C have suffered from the direct effects of "sin". We no longer value human suffering as Christianity does. Why? Because humans aren't worthless and entirely evil. Humans can do good things. So Valk is onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 "Sin" is just a way of getting emotional leverage over someone. There are things that are universally regarded as being wrong (murder, rape, theft, etc.) and for good reason, but sin goes far beyond this by actually criminalizing natural human behavior that is normal and even pleasurable. This taboo even extends to thoughts and belief. (thought-crime) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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