Shameless

[MrsRoper]

I just want to thank you guys who bare your minds and post here regularly. I haven’t visited this site since ’06 and I’ve recently been reading it again. Last week I was reading one of the forums about all the Christianease you never want to hear again, and I was laughing so hard, I was crying & howling. The absurdity of what we came out of is absolutely hilarious (and sometimes heartbreaking). But what we have lost in religion we have managed to gain in humor.

 

Visiting this site has inspired me to work on finding my voice and write my own extimony. My problem is when I started writing it was like a flood of information. I have so many insane stories. So it will continue to be a work in progress, and hopefully as I gather my thoughts and continue to get clarity I will get to add more here, or maybe even start a blog.

 

Unlike, the few minutes it took to accept Jesus Christ into my heart as my personal Lord and Savior (the 5 to 6+ times I probably actually did it) – my de-conversion took years. And then more years to process, and more years to get over the anger, to feel safe enough to be honest – with everyone – and that’s where I am at today. I am not ashamed that I do not believe. I am not ashamed that I do not call myself a Christian; faith caused me more harm then good. I don’t care what people think about it anymore, and that includes my family. Pretending like, hey, I’m not really an atheist, is just living in more denial. Denial is how I got into this mess but honesty without shame is how I’m getting out.

 

I was baptized/labeled a Catholic at 3mos. old. Three years later my Mom got involved in the Charismatic movement & my Dad died. She didn’t leave the Catholic Church until I was about 20-21, so I had this incredibly fucked-up Born Again Christian/ Catholic upbringing. We were like Protestant Catholics, and it sucked beyond belief. And even though everyone around you acts like you are making this “choice” on your own – Christianity was almost everything we talked about in my home and I was forced to participate. I always had my doubts, but was either condescended to, or told by my mother that I was rebellious. Because asking questions people can’t answer is rebellious. At 26, I went to seminary because I thought the Lord gave me a vision to become a college professor. And in those four years, I figured out that the bible as I had been taught was not really the bible. I HAD TO GET A FUCKING MASTERS DEGREE TO FIGURE OUT THAT ALL THIS STUFF WAS CRAP. A lifetime of being told you are shit, and the only thing of value in you is that you have God inside you is a total mind-fuck. It led me to deny my intuition on multiple occasions and follow my mother, who I love and I was supposed to be able to trust, but who in reality is an extremely broken woman who is addicted to religion.

 

I was so humiliated when I dropped out of grad school and moved back home with my Mom (I took a year off and finished up as a closeted heretic.) All my life I had serious depression and anxiety. And I took this failure hard, not only did I not have a solid career track – but what I had been taught to believe was my very foundation in life was dead to me. To make it worse, I now felt different than my family, like I was “the other.” Having been a Christian that had always had “one foot in the world” (oh, thank you Lord Santa Christ for that!), I had always been a little bit embarrassed that we were born again Christians. Now that I no longer believed I saw how religious our secular society is, and I was embarrassed for no longer believing! This was actually worse than being a born again Christian. Instead of having sympathy for me, my mother’s entire attitude was, “Well, I never told you to go there.” My entire experience was my fault, and my failure was a moral failure. This is all true, even though you went and got yourself overeducated and don’t believe. My lack of belief was because of me and my rebellious spirit. It is NOT the BIBLE, God is perfect, it is you. When you think about it, I really am a huge fuckup. I mean evangelical Christians are always getting their panties in a twist about the world and the devil. But I may still be a Christian today if I had stayed in the world. I didn’t lose my faith studying science; I lost it studying the bible the way it’s meant to be studied. I would have had a better chance of retaining my Christianity if I had become a drug addict.

 

I spent a couple years thinking I could be a “cultural” Christian and just go back to the Catholic Church and be like those people that don’t believe but do it for their family. Then I got married and had my first baby, I brought the baby to mass a couple times. Then I imagined my child coming home from religious ed. with me saying, “Well, Jesus wasn’t really born from a virgin. Well, Jesus may or may not have died on the cross. He probably didn’t rise from the dead.” (This is when I still hoped that some of the biblical account of Jesus was historical and he was just this great teacher. Now I question if he even existed. ) Okay, so I am going to send my kid through religious training, so that he can come home and I can deprogram him and then tell him how the bible was really written? All to respect my family and a broader culture that is mostly unaware and uneducated when it comes to religion. Man, I love my family, but it is not even worth it, on so many levels – on every level.

 

And now it’s almost 6 years later and I am finally getting to a place of acceptance. I am not as angry as I was before. I was emotionally abused by my mother and mentally abused by the Church. As a child I never even had a chance. What was presented to me as a choice of my own free will was in actuality years and years of mental conditioning, that broke down my ability to participate fully with reality. Instead of “healing” me Christianity played an active role in keeping me depressed. I was traumatized. When I read the articles on this website about Religious Trauma Syndrome, I thought, I dealt with all of those symptoms on my own, with no resources. I wish I had had those articles 10 years ago. And I guess, if am grateful for anything, I am grateful I survived this and that I can see it for what it really – abuse and denial pretending to be truth and love.

 

It’s not alright that this happened, but I don’t have to live there anymore. I am no longer sorry my children aren’t going to share the same rites of passage of my family and many in my community. It’s hard to break away from the fold and embrace being the other, but I never really fit in anyway. I’d rather be weird and have my children have a sold sense of self esteem and concrete skills to navigate this world, then have them counting on a God that isn’t there. I am not giving them to the Church because I am protecting them from its abuses. I truly wanted to be good. I did not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But when I looked for the baby it wasn’t there. It was all bathwater, so I chucked it out.

[mymistake]

Welcome back

[♦ ficino ♦]

A very moving story, DeanMen, thanks for sharing it with us. I hope to see you around on here. I'd been off Ex-Chr too for about five years and recently reconnected.

 

It's ironic how close reading of the Bible can lead people to realize it's not what they say it is!

[Zephie]

Amazing. So glad you got out. Welcome to Ex-C!

[Positivist]

I HAD TO GET A FUCKING MASTERS DEGREE TO FIGURE OUT THAT ALL THIS STUFF WAS CRAP. A lifetime of being told you are shit, and the only thing of value in you is that you have God inside you is a total mind-fuck.

~~~~~

I didn’t lose my faith studying science; I lost it studying the bible the way it’s meant to be studied. I would have had a better chance of retaining my Christianity if I had become a drug addict.

~~~~~

I did not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But when I looked for the baby it wasn’t there. It was all bathwater, so I chucked it out.

 

Hello DeanMen! I loved your story. Thank you for sharing it. I always marvel that so many people lose their faith when they look closer at their holy text. I agree that it's a mind-fuck that we hold this text (and what we impose upon it for meaning) in higher regard than any moral virtue. We regard it as good when it is really quite evil. We regard it's words as imbued with timeless meaning, when really it is a culturally situated book of subjectivities.

 

I too threw out the bathwater and found no baby!

[MrsRoper]

Thanks for the welcome everyone

 

 

" I always marvel that so many people lose their faith when they look closer at their holy text. "

 

I also marvel at all the people who graduate from an accredited seminary and retain their faith. I feel like I am in the minority of people who receive this kind of education.

 

[Zephie]

Thanks for the welcome everyone

 

 

" I always marvel that so many people lose their faith when they look closer at their holy text. "

 

I also marvel at all the people who graduate from an accredited seminary and retain their faith. I feel like I am in the minority of people who receive this kind of education.

 

One of the first things they told us at bible college was that seminary was really called cemetary because your faith died.

[MrsRoper]

One of the first things they told us at bible college was that seminary was really called cemetary because your faith died.

 

What did you think when they told you that? I only know one other person from my time there that lost her faith too. Most of the students were perfectly happy playing Mental Olympics to make the "seemingly contradictory" passages of the bible work out. That phrase belongs in the Christianease forum too, but I like my Hebrew prof too much.

[Zephie]

I thought it was funny. That was in '07. This was a funy-evangelical school in Texas and not an actual seminary though. Still, they told us that.

[Denyoz]

Hey DeanMen, I really enjoyed reading your extimony. Of course I felt your pain but that's what I like about extimonies. True stories are much more interesting than novels. They are real and I like real things.

 

I can imagine the disappointment of realizing that all that stuff was crap after getting your masters degree. Shit, what a waste. It's like realizing after eight years of marriage that your wife never loved you.

 

Lies are what hurt me the most.

 

Welcome back, I hope you will stick around for a while, you sound like a nice girl.

[Margee]

DeanMen, THAT extimony should be in a book!! Fantastic. Welcome to the boards!! You touched on so many good points. I am so sorry you had to go through the pain of all this. I just got through writing somewhere what you stated:

 

Quote you: ''My lack of belief was because of me and my rebellious spirit. It is NOT the BIBLE, God is perfect, it is you.''

 

Gawd could I ever relate to this!! I always felt like the outcast because god only gave me faith, the size of a mustard seed and I struggled sooooooo hard to believe what they preached. I ALWAYS thought it was me and my fault. All they ever kept saying to me to shut me up (because I asked too many questions) was..'Margee, you have to have more faith' ...

 

I am REALLY happy you are here with us!! you're an awsome writer!

[MrsRoper]

Hey DeanMen, I really enjoyed reading your extimony. Of course I felt your pain but that's what I like about extimonies. True stories are much more interesting than novels. They are real and I like real things.

 

I can imagine the disappointment of realizing that all that stuff was crap after getting your masters degree. Shit, what a waste. It's like realizing after eight years of marriage that your wife never loved you.

 

Lies are what hurt me the most.

 

Welcome back, I hope you will stick around for a while, you sound like a nice guy.

Thanks Denyoz, I truly enjoyed your extimony too. I loved your Garden of Eden analogy. For me it was a fresh perspective on that myth, and I think that is what I will share with my kids when we read it.

Losing my faith while getting my MA was disappointing, I would wish I would have been a lot brighter and figured it out before I got there. Realizing your wife didn’t love you after 8 yrs of marriage must have been incredibly painful. Being deceived is awful.

That’s one of the confusing things about this process, I’m not sure anyone was consciously trying to deceive me. I used to have repetitive thoughts over and over about this, do they really believe this? Is this a mass delusion? I would have nightmares where I would be arguing with people from my past, a Pastor, my mother – THIS IS NOT THE TRUTH, I’d scream! Why are did you tell me to believe this, why are you still teaching this crap? You are wrong. You are wrong. Then I’d wake up. And maybe that is the beauty of what happened at seminary, I woke up from my voluntary participation in a mass delusion.

[Denyoz]

Sorry DeanMen I called you a guy in my initial post, I changed it to girl after I saw your gender. I was mislead by your username.

 

I didn't think girls could go to the seminary, when I was young it was for guys only.

 

Well you did achieve something, now you are a Master of Delusion! LOL You probably have all the info necessary to deconvert anyone.

 

It's sad to see that a lot of people study this stuff, they see the lie and choose to continue to deceive others for status or money. How sick. I heard catholic priest say that studying theology made them lose their faith, but they were still priests! Go figure...

 

Anyway you have all my admiration for quitting. If I was God, I would reward your integrity. You are an honourable human being and you can be proud of yourself!

[MrsRoper]

 

 

Margee – you just made my whole day! Between your encouragement and the belly laughs I’ve been getting at the “Christianease” forum, I am one shiny, happy ex-christian.

What I have above is really the sanitized version of my story. (Well, mostly sanitized, my anger is on full display & I love dropping some profanities.) I am thinking of getting it all out and writing a novel. I think my seminary years alone would make THE best HBO show. People have no idea what goes on in seminary, or Christian higher ed. for that matter. My experience was so demented (and I mean that in a good way) it would be some quality TV for sure.

I love this place because; your story is my story. We “other” and outcast can finally speak our minds without being dismissed or worse called a blasphemer. Which I guess now is more of a compliment anyway. I’ve been struggling with deconversion for 10 years. Prior to deciding this week that I am ready for radical honesty, there was only one person I could share this all with that actually understood where I have been. It’s nice to know that we are not alone.

Also, I appreciate your honesty regarding your experience in AA. I’ve been working on my own codependency issues & in my research I couldn’t understand why I have so much in common with the adult children of alcoholics. My mother doesn’t drink at all, and recently my therapist said religion can be an addiction. Ding, dong, HELLO!!! There is not much written out there on this, but the little I found I definitely see the symptoms in my mother. I think I’d like to start a forum discussion on this. It’s all kind of connected: Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder, Narcissism, Addiction (Religion or otherwise) – the output is low self-esteem, anxiety, depression. So anyway, thank you for helping me.

[MrsRoper]

Sorry DeanMen I called you a guy in my initial post, I changed it to girl after I saw your gender. I was mislead by your username.

 

I didn't think girls could go to the seminary, when I was young it was for guys only.

 

Well you did achieve something, now you are a Master of Delusion! LOL You probably have all the info necessary to deconvert anyone.

 

It's sad to see that a lot of people study this stuff, they see the lie and choose to continue to deceive others for status or money. How sick. I heard catholic priest say that studying theology made them lose their faith, but they were still priests! Go figure...

 

Anyway you have all my admiration for quitting. If I was God, I would reward your integrity. You are an honourable human being and you can be proud of yourself!

 

No harm, no foul, I am the Dean of Men.

 

I attended a Protestant seminary, at the time 30% of the students were women.

 

I think anyone who is seeking the truth has the necessary information to deconvert already. All you need is curiosity and the Internet nowadays.

 

Anyone activity deceiving others for status or money is disgusting. But I imagine there are others who have gotten trapped and don't know the way out. I bet some of those Catholic priests were labeled Catholics as infants, grew up in catholic families and went to seminary at an early age. That is a lot to give up when you may not feel like you are educated to do anything else. I wonder a lot about some seminary professors too, but there are not a lot of places to go when your expertise is koine Greek,etc.

 

I think you may be the very first person who has complemented me for being a hardcore heretic! It feels so good, thank you very much.

[Positivist]

Most of the students were perfectly happy playing Mental Olympics to make the "seemingly contradictory" passages of the bible work out.

 

Ugh. I seemed to develop some sort of cognitive rigor and I was increasingly unable to do the mental gymnastics. I feel like my faith broke my brain.

[owen652]

addicted to religion.

 

these three words say everything. i've never heard it described this way. that's what i was; addicted to religion. that's what so many still are. thanks so much for your testimony.

[Akheia]

That was a moving ex-timony to read. Welcome back That's a lot of pain to move through and I'm so glad you came out of it. I heard the "cemetary" joke too about the fundie vo-tech in my hometown--Texas Bible College. Strangely, they didn't really teach a lot of the actual Biblical criticism; it was just crazy fundies preaching at each other and practicing Christianese gymnastics. I'm really starting to appreciate the vast gulf between actual seminary education and what gets out to church flocks. It's amazing to me that any literal-minded Christian could go through that sort of education and come out still believing in inerrancy and omni-everything, but then, I've heard of people going through top-notch biology educations and coming out still YEC. There's no way one can underestimate the bullshit a human mind can reconcile.

 

One thing I also marvel at is how the internet has made so much easier nowadays. I deconverted a long time ago and had to struggle out of that swamp all by myself--nowadays there are forums devoted to the sole subject of deconversion, but back then there was bupkiss really. I knew people who'd been atheist since childhood, but nobody who'd left Christianity.

 

Again, welcome!

[MrsRoper]

I feel like my faith broke my brain.

 

Me too!

 

 

these three words say everything. i've never heard it described this way. that's what i was; addicted to religion. that's what so many still are. thanks so much for your testimony.

Here are some of the symptoms: http://www.lexpages.com/SGN/paschal/religious_addiction.html I think we should start a forum about it.

 

 

I'm really starting to appreciate the vast gulf between actual seminary education and what gets out to church flocks.

I proper biblical education certainly would have saved me a lot of wasted years. Even in the mainline churches people pander to their flock. I have a friend who was an Hebrew Bible TA at Vanderbilt and she was always disappointed when her students where like we get what you are saying, but we'd never teach this to our parishoners. You know because faith is more sacred than facts.

 

One thing I also marvel at is how the internet has made so much easier nowadays. I deconverted a long time ago and had to struggle out of that swamp all by myself--nowadays there are forums devoted to the sole subject of deconversion, but back then there was bupkiss really. I knew people who'd been atheist since childhood, but nobody who'd left Christianity.

Me too! I am actually jealous of the "kids" today, that they have all this access to information in such an easy way. I also feel like I struggled through the swamp by myself. I only have one Christian friend who deconverted, even moderate Christians like to give me shit and tell me to baptize my kids, or that I should just attend any church cause it is my family "tradition." I spontaneously shared a little bit of my lack of faith with one of my kid's friend's mom last week and she told me she was "sad for me, that I don't have a sense of spirituality." I regret not defending myself and letting her know that I am really better off now - but she wasn't intending to be dismissive - she just doesn't get it because it's so far out of the realm of her experience.

[Margee]

Margee – you just made my whole day! Between your encouragement and the belly laughs I’ve been getting at the “Christianease” forum, I am one shiny, happy ex-christian.

 

 

What I have above is really the sanitized version of my story. (Well, mostly sanitized, my anger is on full display & I love dropping some profanities.) I am thinking of getting it all out and writing a novel. I think my seminary years alone would make THE best HBO show. People have no idea what goes on in seminary, or Christian higher ed. for that matter. My experience was so demented (and I mean that in a good way) it would be some quality TV for sure.

 

I love this place because; your story is my story. We “other” and outcast can finally speak our minds without being dismissed or worse called a blasphemer. Which I guess now is more of a compliment anyway. I’ve been struggling with deconversion for 10 years. Prior to deciding this week that I am ready for radical honesty, there was only one person I could share this all with that actually understood where I have been. It’s nice to know that we are not alone.

 

Also, I appreciate your honesty regarding your experience in AA. I’ve been working on my own codependency issues & in my research I couldn’t understand why I have so much in common with the adult children of alcoholics. My mother doesn’t drink at all, and recently my therapist said religion can be an addiction. Ding, dong, HELLO!!! There is not much written out there on this, but the little I found I definitely see the symptoms in my mother. I think I’d like to start a forum discussion on this. It’s all kind of connected: Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder, Narcissism, Addiction (Religion or otherwise) – the output is low self-esteem, anxiety, depression. So anyway, thank you for helping me.

 

Dean, I just noticed this responce! where the hell have I been??? Thank you so much for the nice compliment. I am so very happy that some of my stories have helped you when you were a 'lurker'. I have so much fun on EX-c too ...I do the same thing you do...there are nights when I sit here and I am in hysterics at my computer!!

 

Please, Keep posting with us...it's so good to have you with us!! Margee

[MrsRoper]

there are nights when I sit here and I am in hysterics at my computer!!

 

LOL! Crying, belly laughs like I am watching Bridesmaids hysterics! I think a humor book could be written based on the comments in the Christianease forum alone. You know.... if the Lord Tarrys.

[Thought2Much]

You know.... if the Lord Tarrys.

 

twitch... twitch-twitch-twitch... twitch...