Proselytizing To The Newly Deconverted By The Newly Converted

[OMneg]

I’ve become a project for my newly converted friend. We met long ago when I was a backsliding christian and managed to stay friends even when I ‘reconnected’ with god and started proselytizing to her. She sweetly tolerated my gentle nudges towards the christian faith but ended up being taken in by the mormons. (I seriously hope I didn’t help lay that groundwork.) Here’s the irony: she’s proselytizing to me now! At first I thought it was sweet and cute but now it’s starting to piss me off. She had just started talking to the mormons when I first shared my lack of belief so I didn’t take her belief seriously. I knew that sounds shallow but I thought she was in it for the support they gave, not the belief itself since she’d never been interested in religion. I shared with her some of the reasons I could no longer believe and how painful it’s been and she translated that to me missing god. So now I’m a project. I’m so frustrated. I want to try to make my stance very clear to her but I’m afraid she’ll think I’m trying to tear down her faith. I’m worried that her new mormon friends will come between us. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Deva]

I don't know that you can do anything but say how you feel about it to your friend. Say in in an even tone and not when you are upset about some other matter..

 

Mormonism is just so bizarre to me. I don't think I could stand a "true believer" trying to proselytize to me about it for five minutes.Most Christians I have ever known in my life would say the Mormonism is not Christianity, but a cult. Hell, I know that's not what the Mormons think, but it was just as unacceptable to Baptists as Unitarianism or Buddhism is.

[blackpudd1n]

Ugh, that sounds like an ugly situation.

 

I don't have any advice, other than making religion a topic that's not up for discussion. Change the subject, and just be blunt if you have to- say, 'I'll talk about anything but anything to do with religion'.

 

These days, I'd be tempted to turn her words against her, and whenever religion is raised, tell her she's missing reality (particularly when she tells you that you're missing god).

 

In my general experience, humour always makes a better, more memorable point than an argument or saying it gently. You know you're getting somewhere when even they can't help laughing at a comeback, even though they really shouldn't.

[asanerman]

It's hard to determine what can screws up a relationship worst, religion or politics!

 

I proselytize when I'm "right" and you need what I have to make your life worth living, whether my proselytizing is political or religious. And I'm justified in doing so!

 

Politically speaking, "our" candidate gets elected and they smile on us and I'm so proud.

Religiously speaking, you "get saved," God smiles on "us" and I get a jewel in my everlasting crown and I'm so proud I helped you (the Job syndrome)

 

Simply put, that's just the nature of things!

 

Once I understood that what I'm usually up to is trying to meet my needs at the expense of another. Simply put, that's just the nature of things!

 

When I feel "violated" in any way I react instinctively--fight or flight. In a a "cherished" relationship that can means heartbreak and/or warfare.

 

When I'm aware of what I'm up to, that is, "smell the smoke and feel the lay of the land" and understand how I project upon my environment--I can, on my better days, respond rather than react.

 

As Nietzsche so apply put it man/woman is that animal who makes promises.

 

The civility (if there is any) which separates us from other animals depends upon the making and keeping of promises.

 

In a healthy relationship, when I feel "violated" by your words or actions I can take the time to mark my boundaries and make promises to respect your expressed boundaries.

 

If the proselytizing persists I depart, intellectually and physically out of respect for myself and for you!

[OMneg]

I don't know that you can do anything but say how you feel about it to your friend. Say in in an even tone and not when you are upset about some other matter..

 

Mormonism is just so bizarre to me. I don't think I could stand a "true believer" trying to proselytize to me about it for five minutes.Most Christians I have ever known in my life would say the Mormonism is not Christianity, but a cult. Hell, I know that's not what the Mormons think, but it was just as unacceptable to Baptists as Unitarianism or Buddhism is.

Deva, Thank you for the great advice. Maybe my emotional rant against god is what did it for her, even though I tried to explain that I know he's not there. Mormonism is so ridiculous! I don't think she realizes how much I know about it. I just want to laugh my head off. Even now I think mormonism is way more out there than christianity but I don't know if I'm biased because I'm an exchristian.

[OMneg]

 

I don't have any advice, other than making religion a topic that's not up for discussion. Change the subject, and just be blunt if you have to- say, 'I'll talk about anything but anything to do with religion'.

 

These days, I'd be tempted to turn her words against her, and whenever religion is raised, tell her she's missing reality (particularly when she tells you that you're missing god).

 

In my general experience, humour always makes a better, more memorable point than an argument or saying it gently. You know you're getting somewhere when even they can't help laughing at a comeback, even though they really shouldn't.

It's hard to determine what can screws up a relationship worst, religion or politics!

 

I proselytize when I'm "right" and you need what I have to make your life worth living, whether my proselytizing is political or religious. And I'm justified in doing so!

 

 

 

Once I understood that what I'm usually up to is trying to meet my needs at the expense of another. Simply put, that's just the nature of things!

 

 

In a healthy relationship, when I feel "violated" by your words or actions I can take the time to mark my boundaries and make promises to respect your expressed boundaries.

 

If the proselytizing persists I depart, intellectually and physically out of respect for myself and for you!

Laughter is the best medicine. I'll see what I can do with that. A LOT since we're talking about the mormons! This is tough for me because I don't want to tear down her belief because she is finally surrounding herself with 'good' people. Maybe they only care because god told them to but it's better than the people who used to use her because she's so nice. I never thought I'd see a good use for religion but in this case, it's hard. As strange as the mormon doctrine is, they are caring people (with strings, I know). That being said, I do have to take care of myself. Maybe I should invite her to read my extimony. AND draw some boundaries. Thanks for the good advice and support.

[Positivist]

I had a similar situation. It struck me as so odd than religion is truly a revolving door: some are coming, some are going. Bizarre.

[Zaphod]

I actually was directly (though not deliberately) responsible for bringing someone Christ a year or so before my faith began falling apart. We were coworkers and he started going to church after having met me because I was then attending the same kind of church he had attended as a child. He was a blues guitarist when I knew him. Today he only listens to Christian music and is getting ready to publish a Bible commentary. We are facebook friends but we haven't had any personal exchanges since a public (yet civil) back-and-forth on my facebook wall about GLBT issues.

 

Don't the Mormons envision a pretty benign, non-tormenting version of the afterlife for non-believers who behave themselves and strive to live a moral life? Maybe you could use that as an escape hatch for conversations with your friend. "Thanks for your concern, but even if you're right and I'm wrong, it's not gonna be so bad for me when I die."

[OMneg]

Positivist: Yeah, it's strange. What really gets me is the rare ex that goes back.

 

Zaphod: Great idea! In fact, that was in the literature she sent.

[FeelHappy]

I'm reading through all the mormon scripture now and I really can't imagine why anyone would actually believe this stuff.

 

Have her read the Mormon scripture contained in the Pearl of Great Price, its one of their sacred scripture. In it god sits on his planet circling the star Kolob trying to decide how to create and redeem mankind, where both satan and his brother jesus volunteer to be the redeemers but jesus is choosen.

 

Next have her then read about how the Book of Abraham came about and the actual translation by egyptologist and just how much Joseph Smith made up. Next have her read about the Kinderhook plates which were forgeries yet Joseph Smith declared them divine.

 

A good book written by a believing mormon debunking Joseph Smith is An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, its less than 300 pages and highly informative, I can't see after reading this any new convert staying.

 

Also you could have her read The Doctrine and Covenants Section 132

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng

 

In it Joseph Smith is commanded by god (he recollects this) to take additional wives but Emma Smith must cleave to Joseph Smith and no one else, accept these new wives or else be destroyed (V 50-65)

[FeelHappy]

Of course I understand not wanting to destroy her faith, that's a tough one. I'm in a similar boat with my family, everyone is a fundi christian and I just don't even bother getting into religious debates with them because it would be too hard for them to lose the very thing they seem to live for.

[Akheia]

It's really tough when a friend is crossing your boundaries like that. My suggestion is a less formal variant of: "I know you care about me, so I need to tell you that religion isn't something I really want to talk about. Your proselytizing behavior makes me uncomfortable to be around you. I hope I can trust you to show respect for my boundaries so we can continue to be friends." (Avoid the word "but"--the human brain reacts very negatively to it.)

 

Sometimes it just comes down to her having a new obsession that you're just not part of anymore, like if she had a baby and suddenly all she could talk about was poop and feedings. But once you've made your boundaries clear, if she continues to babble about religion, then at that point you can tell that she's talking to you less for your own wonderful self and more for her own desire to proselytize. At that point it wouldn't matter who was standing in front of her--you become food for her needs. Sometimes I don't mind that; if a dear friend is traumatized and in that "can't talk about anything but the trauma" phase, or if someone I love has had a baby But you've got to draw your own lines when it gets out of hand or makes you genuinely uncomfortable. About all you can do then is say "I'm heading out now. Maybe we can talk later on. Feel free to call if you think you're able to avoid religion." And then touch base with her a month or so later (if she hasn't already called) to see if she's calmed down any. Good luck... I know this isn't easy and hope you're able to find a common ground with your friend.

 

PS: Even by Christian standards, yes, Mormonism is insane. But most of the Mormons I've known are really more in it for the general concepts of salvation and the strong sense of community, just like most Catholics are. I'd hazard a guess based on my very limited sample size that most Mormons have no clue whatsoever what their faith is really about, any more than Scientologists used to before South Park and Anonymous took them on. Even the missionaries stupid enough to try to convert me seemed very surprised by some of the things I asked them about regarding Joseph Smith and the church's more esoteric doctrines. I'm not sure trying to out-logic your friend is going to help a lot.