Hi My Name Is Aaron And Im A Christian How Are You Today/nite/morning/afternoon?

[buffettphan]

i know what my Father(God) says and so i wont be shaken by skeptics.

 

If you already know and therefore won't be shaken, then you have no honest interest in what we have to say. You are wasting your time. But you have reminded us why we are glad we are no longer christian. Thanks for that.

[stryper]

This had to be a joke. I couldn't even get through reading the whole thing.

 

You would think that. However, given the internets...it could be a troll or it could be genuine. Since we don't know for sure, we'll treat it as genuine for now.

 

 

ON TOPIC:

 

The whole concept of Moral Law and Law Giver is cop out. It is a way for apologists to make themselves feel superior because the entire shtick is to shutdown any argument by laying out an unarguable position.

 

The truth is morals and laws are cultural and societal constructs. It was moral for a Patrician in Rome to commit suicide when he was faced with an unwinable situation. This was because the laws in Rome would strip him and his family of all rights and property. But by committing suicide he commits no treason or other capital crime which the state would seek restitution for. Thus his family would be secure in the assets already earned.

 

It was a similar case with samurai. Seppeku was preferable to "dishonor".

 

Yet in our society. Suicide is ironically illegal because it is murder.

 

The "law giver" is always the society and culture in which the law was written. Thus the reason why you cannot honestly compare modern law to ancient law. The societies and cultures are to different that making it comparable is impossible.

[Realist]

i know what my Father(God) says and so i wont be shaken by skeptics.

 

If you already know and therefore won't be shaken, then you have no honest interest in what we have to say. You are wasting your time. But you have reminded us why we are glad we are no longer christian. Thanks for that.

 

... yes, he states he is here to learn why atheists are as they are, yet he says his faith will not be shaken by skeptics!

So in other words he is NOT here to learn or change anything from HIS point of view ... he is here making out he is being NICE to us ... with the deceit of spreading his vile message!

[Destinyjesus3000]

<p>

<span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">"Christians dont always take the best approach in dealing with the Unsaved and so they get attacked"</span></p>

<p><span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">MAYBE if you would stop calling the normal folks (ie. Me) in such a fucking condescending way (unsaved). Then they (me) would care to read the rest of your post...</span><span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">I don't have to be saved from nothing, thank you</span>

</p>

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<p><strong>My apologies, i am in no way purposely trying to condemn or belittle anyone, i simply did not know that Atheists didn't like to be called that, im new to this thing, i genuinely want respectful communication, i understand there is a bad rep here Christians so its natural for me to get attacked, that i dont mind, it helps my Faith in God because it requires me to search deeper and harder for truth.</strong></p>

<p> </p>

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</p>

<p> </p>

<p>"Granted the unsaved don't need to believe in God to discern moral duties or understand that objective morals values exist" - full stop. That's all you need to know. :-)<br />

"because universal Moral law transcends humanity" - no it does not. Human beings are the only beings who follow laws. Or ignore laws.<br />

Every universal law has a universal law giver? You mean people couldn't figure out on their own that getting killed, raped, maimed, robbed, and cheated was rather unacceptable, hence why dont we make a law about it? Gosh, isnt that what members of congress do all day? Make laws! They are the law-givers! Woohoo!<br />

</p>

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<p> </p>

<p> </p>

<div> </div>

<div><strong>I dont believe American Court system is perfect, in fact the Britain's system the Judge is an active participant in finding the truth, In America sometime it seems to be based on the best lawyer. Although i do think the U.S. system is decent allowing one to have a jury from trail and a right to an attorney, but this is another topic lol. As far as universal law, what im saying is...if there is a universal moral code that everyone knows, such as respect, loyalty, bravery. Even drug dealers respect other dealers, and terrorist show loyalty to other terirorists, But where did they learn these moral traits? Romans 2:15 says it was written on our hearts.</strong></div>

<div> </div>

<div>

<span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">"Everytime we dispute right and wrong we appeal to a higher law that we assume everyone is aware of"</span></div>

<p><span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">No. We assume a moral code that is a mixture of:</span><br style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; " />

<span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">- our own cultural customs (ie. It's not considered immoral to hate gays in Texas but you would be considered immoral if you would be anti-gay in Holland) </span></p>

<p><span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">- the prevailing moral zeitgeist (ie. it's immoral to keep slaves now, but it was perfectly OK only a few hundred years ago and even promoted by the church and the bible)</span></p>

<p>

</p>

<div style="text-align: -webkit-left;"><strong> <span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px; ">True there are different morality concepts in different places in civil matter but respect, bravery, loyalty etc have the same definition everywhere universally. In biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the bible was not based exclusively on race, nationality or skin color. In bible times slavery was more a matter of social status, People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or proved for their families to have their needs provided for. Further more the bible Outlines principles in which they were to be treated, fairly, fed well and given what they needed. NOT the definition of slavery as it is today or what most think where is Lack of food and no respect and no fairness. The bible definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced, they were slaves not by choice but because they were Hebrews, God in fact rained down judgment Because of the Pharisees did this to them, and God Delivered them from this type of slavery. The bible Condems the practice of "Man-stealing" which is what happend in Africa i think sometime in the  19th century, where slave hunters took african and sold them to slave traders. God Hates this! In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaiac law was death: " Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death" Exodus 21:16</span><font color="#ffffff" face="Calibri, Tahoma, Verdana, Arial" size="3"><span style="line-height: 18px;">" E</span></font></strong></div>

 

[Destinyjesus3000]

sry new to site i dont know how to quote : (

[Destinyjesus3000]

Since i Cannot quote i will simply post my responses...I am still working on responding to everyone please be patient with me, i need more time, its alot of you and only one me, but i want to do what i can to get back with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My apologies, i am in no way purposely trying to condemn or belittle anyone, i simply did not know that Atheists didn't like to be called that, im new to this thing, i genuinely want respectful communication, i understand there is a bad rep here Christians so its natural for me to get attacked, that i dont mind, it helps my Faith in God because it requires me to search deeper and harder for truth

 

 

 

I dont believe American Court system is perfect, in fact the Britain's system the Judge is an active participant in finding the truth, In America sometime it seems to be based on the best lawyer. Although i do think the U.S. system is decent allowing one to have a jury from trail and a right to an attorney, but this is another topic lol. As far as universal law, what im saying is...if there is a universal moral code that everyone knows, such as respect, loyalty, bravery. Even drug dealers respect other dealers, and terrorist show loyalty to other terrorists, But where did they learn these moral traits? Romans 2:15 says it was written on our hearts.

 

True there are different morality concepts in different places in civil matter but respect, bravery, loyalty etc have the same definition everywhere universally. In biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the bible was not based exclusively on race, nationality or skin color. In bible times slavery was more a matter of social status, People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or proved for their families to have their needs provided for. Further more the bible Outlines principles in which they were to be treated, fairly, fed well and given what they needed. NOT the definition of slavery as it is today or what most think where is Lack of food and no respect and no fairness. The bible definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced, they were slaves not by choice but because they were Hebrews, God in fact rained down judgment Because of the Pharisees did this to them, and God Delivered them from this type of slavery. The bible Condems the practice of "Man-stealing" which is what happend in Africa i think sometime in the 19th century, where slave hunters took african and sold them to slave traders. God Hates this! In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic law was death: " Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death" Exodus 21:16

[JoeCoastie]

You're trying to sell us on good slavery, bad slavery. As modern men we know there is no such thing as good slavery. This only shows that the bible is not the word of an all knowing God, but rather the word of primitive savages. But its all we have of God's word, because there are no future prophets, because what they called a prophet thousands of years ago we call coo coo crazy today.

 

Our species existed about 200,000 years before your god was even invented. We developed our morality way before he came into the picture.

[midniterider]

' If I told you to rape a person or I will push a button and destroy everyone in the entire state of Texas, what would be your moral responsibility in this situation? On one hand your actions would harm one. On the other hand, your inaction would harm many. What say you? (Don't bother telling me the moral obligation is on me the one who threatens. Clearly I'm evil here in this scenario. Thus the ball is in your court.)'

 

Can you just press the button anyway? lol.

[Antlerman]

i genuinely want respectful communication, i understand there is a bad rep here Christians so its natural for me to get attacked,

Not all Chrisitans who come here get attacked. I'd say the onus is upon you personally and very little to do with your beliefs.

 

that i dont mind, it helps my Faith in God because it requires me to search deeper and harder for truth

Where you should look for truth first is in yourself. You should look at your attitudes and actions and evaluate where they come from, then do the truly hard work of finding self-love through that mess. Then, once you have done that and found truth in yourself, then, and only then, will you know how to respond to others and actually discuss points of view, as opposed to trying to prove you're right to defend you little island of self-protection. If you had faith in God, you wouldn't be afraid to lay your soul bare before your own eyes and face the challenge of that truth.

 

What say you?

[mymistake]

My apologies, i am in no way purposely trying to condemn or belittle anyone, i simply did not know that Atheists didn't like to be called that, im new to this thing, i genuinely want respectful communication, i understand there is a bad rep here Christians so its natural for me to get attacked, that i dont mind, it helps my Faith in God because it requires me to search deeper and harder for truth

 

I have no problem with being called an atheist. It is what I call myself. You got attacked because you have acted very rude. Stop being rude and you will find the attacks stop too. If you don't know how to not be rude say so and we can help you.

 

As far as universal law, what im saying is...if there is a universal moral code that everyone knows, such as respect, loyalty, bravery.

 

And that simply isn't true. What cultures value differs from culture to culture. Societies evolve. Morals are subjective and change over time. That is a fact that is supported through archeology and history.

 

Even drug dealers respect other dealers, and terrorist show loyalty to other terrorists, But where did they learn these moral traits? Romans 2:15 says it was written on our hearts.

 

Do you have any idea how ignorant that is? Who are these drug dealers and what study demonstrates that they "respect" each other? To what degree? How did such subjective ideas get measured? The writings of Paul have nothing to do with it at all.

 

True there are different morality concepts in different places in civil matter but respect, bravery, loyalty etc have the same definition everywhere universally.

 

Prove it.

 

In biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the bible was not based exclusively on race, nationality or skin color. In bible times slavery was more a matter of social status, People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or proved for their families to have their needs provided for.

 

Or their city got attacked by an armed band who turned them into slaves. The Bible is morally bankrupt.

 

Further more the bible Outlines principles in which they were to be treated, fairly, fed well and given what they needed.

 

And if the master wanted sex then the master got sex. The Bible outlines what a man's obligations are to his sex slaves. The Bible is morally bankrupt.

 

NOT the definition of slavery as it is today or what most think where is Lack of food and no respect and no fairness.

 

Slavery is never fair.

 

The bible definitely does condemn race-based slavery.

 

Yet the Bible is a source for racism. It is filled with racism and is a favorite justification for racism.

 

Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced, they were slaves not by choice but because they were Hebrews, God in fact rained down judgment Because of the Pharisees did this to them, and God Delivered them from this type of slavery.

 

That story is a myth. It never happened. It's not real.

 

The bible Condems the practice of "Man-stealing" which is what happend in Africa i think sometime in the 19th century, where slave hunters took african and sold them to slave traders. God Hates this! In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic law was death: " Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death" Exodus 21:16

 

Then how do you explain all the Old Testament instructions on taking slaves in the cities that the Hebrews conquer?

[centauri]

In biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the bible was not based exclusively on race, nationality or skin color.

Slavery was commanded by God in Deut 20.

It was based on nationality.

Those nations which God exempted from being exterminated would be made slaves and subject to forced labor as long as they surrendered.

If they failed to surrender, all the males would be killed and the rest taken as plunder.

 

In bible times slavery was more a matter of social status, People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or proved for their families to have their needs provided for.

The instructions for slavery in Deut 20 say nothing about social status or about people selling themselves as slaves due to debts.

They are taken as slaves by force in a military occupation.

 

Further more the bible Outlines principles in which they were to be treated, fairly, fed well and given what they needed. NOT the definition of slavery as it is today or what most think where is Lack of food and no respect and no fairness.

Those principles apply to fellow Hebrews that served as servants.

The slaves taken by conquest were to perform forced labor.

 

The bible definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced, they were slaves not by choice but because they were Hebrews, God in fact rained down judgment Because of the Pharisees did this to them, and God Delivered them from this type of slavery. The bible Condems the practice of "Man-stealing" which is what happend in Africa i think sometime in the 19th century, where slave hunters took african and sold them to slave traders. God Hates this! In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaiac law was death: " Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death" Exodus 21:16

It's condemned because a slave is property (Exo 21:20-21) (Lev 25:46).

By stealing a slave you steal the property of another.

[mymistake]

Exodus 21: 2-6 If you hire a servant for several years, give him a wife and he has children with her, then when his time is up you get to keep his kids as slaves or else he has to become your slave for life!

 

Ex 21: 7-8

You can sell you daughter as a slave and her master can make her have sex with him or his son.

 

Ex 21: 20-21

You have the right to beat your slave as long as they survive for a day or two afterwards. Your slaves are your money.

 

Col 3:22

Paul's instructions on slavery which ensures that slavery is approved in the New Testament.

 

 

Special thanks to Skeptic's Annotated Bible

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/topics/slavery.html

Where even more Bible absurdities and contradictions are documented. It's a wonderful site; a real treasure trove of gems from the Bible.

[Ouroboros]

You're trying to sell us on good slavery, bad slavery. As modern men we know there is no such thing as good slavery. This only shows that the bible is not the word of an all knowing God, but rather the word of primitive savages. But its all we have of God's word, because there are no future prophets, because what they called a prophet thousands of years ago we call coo coo crazy today.

Good slavery, bad slavery. Well said.

 

In other words, "good slavery" = moral, "bad slavery" = immoral, according to Christian standards.

[Overcame Faith]

As far as universal law, what im saying is...if there is a universal moral code that everyone knows, such as respect, loyalty, bravery. Even drug dealers respect other dealers, and terrorist show loyalty to other terirorists, But where did they learn these moral traits? Romans 2:15 says it was written on our hearts.

 

I'll give you a slightly different take on human morality. If you have ever watched wildlife then you will have noticed that different species have specific traits and activities that mark them as a member of that species, and I'm not talking about physical traits, but social traits. For example, pigeons have a mating ritual where the male puffs his feathers out and does a dance to attract a female pigeon. Whitetail deer bucks (the species with which I am familiar), engage in a ritualized battle during the rut (though sometimes there are injuries) and the "winner" gets the doe. There are other social traits that have nothing to do with mating. For example, wolves run in packs and they have a very specific hierarchy with the alpha male being in charge of a pack. The wolves hunt in a pack and they work together in an amazingly coordinated fashion. It is their hunting prowess that allows the pack to bring down fairly large and dangerous game which no single wolf would be capable of doing. And on and on we could go with the various species.

 

Who taught these animals to do these things? Perhaps you will say that god taught them. But that is not the case at all. There is an element of learning, of course (at least for the more intelligent species), but as a general rule wolves in the Western United states act the same as wolves in other parts of the world. The single most important answer to the question of who taught them is that it is genetic. It has become coded into them over the span of many, many millenia. And, particularly with wolves, we know it is genetically coded into them because our modern dogs are all descendants of wolves. They retain much of what we humans like about wolves like intense loyalty to their pack (the human family), obedience to an alpha (which is a human being), teamwork, etc. But the less desirable traits have been bred out of them over a span of approximately 3,000 or so years of human genetic engineering.

 

I think we can view the traits of wolves (and other non-human creatures) as a form of morality in the sense that their actions dictate what is "right" and what is "wrong" for them. For example, if a non-alpha wolf male attempts to breed with a female in the pack, the alpha male will release a harsh retribution on the non-alpha male. So, it is "wrong" for a non-alpha male in the wolf pack to mate with a female member of the pack and he is held up to that "moral" standard.

 

Human beings are animals, too, and we, like them, have a genetic incoding that, to a degree perhaps larger than we like to admit, has much to do with our behavior that we call morality. My belief is that the universal moral standards are largely (though not totally) due to our genetic makeup combined, of course, with a degree of learning. In other words, it is not god but our genetic incoding which accounts in large part for whatever degree of universal moral behavior (i.e., morality) human beings have.

[London]

I will say this,...lets say for example a childs father tells the child the stove is hot, they child believs at first, but when the father leaves, he tests it out for himself and finds out it really is hot, as his father says, then one day an heat and stove expert comes in and tells the child, he lil dude, this stove is not Hot...The child says, Sir....i dotn care what degree you have i dont belive the stove is hot i KNOW its hot. This si the way i feel about my Faith i know what my Father(God) says and so i wont be shaken by skeptics.

 

"Hey Mr DJ put a record on, I want to to dance with my baby"

 

Ok DJ3000 I'll bite here.

 

mmm hmm, ok, so the child didn't want to take the experts opinion. No problem. That shows he might have a brain. But then it is an epic fail with the deluded cult faith answer. A smart child would have doubted the "expert" and looked at the burner himself. Using critical thinking, visual observation, and past experience, he would have determined the "expert" was not lying and the burner was in fact off and not hot.

 

Intelligence makes you question the "facts". A cult forces you to accept what you are fed.

 

So my lil DJ. Welcome to Ex-C. Perhaps your god led you here to learn about the bible. There are so many here that can give you information. And I guarantee that your faith will not be shaken. But with education it will be folded, spindled and mutilated.

 

The more you learn the closer you are to freedom.

 

Please enjoy a musical interlude on me. "Hey Mr DJ put a record on..."

[midniterider]

thanks Larry for your name and introduction, i am on break at work, i often dont have time to respond to all, only in general, but i will try to do a bit better, but i need the physical time to do so, Thanks for the one who gives me the benefit of the doubt, i am a genuine person looking for answers, and trying to understand but i cannot do that without knowing what the other side thinks. so when im not on m break i will try to answer a few questions. I will say this,...lets say for example a childs father tells the child the stove is hot, they child believs at first, but when the father leaves, he tests it out for himself and finds out it really is hot, as his father says, then one day an heat and stove expert comes in and tells the child, he lil dude, this stove is not Hot...The child says, Sir....i dotn care what degree you have i dont belive the stove is hot i KNOW its hot. This si the way i feel about my Faith i know what my Father(God) says and so i wont be shaken by skeptics.

 

We're not skeptics. We are apostates! You see, a long time ago I was a skeptic. That's how I was raised...but then one day I decided to pretend that Jesus was real...it only lasted about 10 years...then I turned away from biblegod. So now I am an apostate because I turned away. I allowed myself to be gullible just like you are right now. I listened to other christians tell me what god was thinking and what god wanted me to do. But then I decided I didn't like guilt, fear and control and said adios to christianity. I set myself free of the mind prison. You should too! Just say, "God, I am tired of guilt. God I am tired of fear. God I am stepping out of your mind prison. I have little faith in myself but I know that the less I rely on you, God, the more I can rely on myself!....God? Hello? ....."

[midniterider]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

 

A christian will claim he is a follower of bible scripture....well, until he is required under Deut 21:18-21 to stone his child to death. Then we hear something like "well, that's not what the scripture really means...." No, if you have a rebellious child, YOU AS A CHRISTIAN are required by GOD to stone your child to death. But of course you will REBEL AGAINST GOD yourself and defy his commands by letting your rebellious child live. YOU are a sinner by defying god's simple command to kill your child. What kind of luke-warm christian are you anyway?

 

As for me and my house, we use common sense.

[pratt]

come on guys, he is new here,,,,,

 

letss take his faith apart piece by piece and not all at once and frighten him off,,,,

 

let him provide a satisfactory reasonable answer question by question,,,,,l we flood him with so many questions at once, he will not be able to handle all at once and start babbling,,,l

 

come on aaron,,,,, explain stoning the rebellious son 1st,,,,,,,

[bornnormal]

My apologies, i am in no way purposely trying to condemn or belittle anyone, i simply did not know that Atheists didn't like to be called that, im new to this thing, i genuinely want respectful communication, i understand there is a bad rep here Christians so its natural for me to get attacked, that i dont mind, it helps my Faith in God because it requires me to search deeper and harder for truth

 

 

True there are different morality concepts in different places in civil matter but respect, bravery, loyalty etc have the same definition everywhere universally. In biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the bible was not based exclusively on race, nationality or skin color. In bible times slavery was more a matter of social status, People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or proved for their families to have their needs provided for. Further more the bible Outlines principles in which they were to be treated, fairly, fed well and given what they needed. NOT the definition of slavery as it is today or what most think where is Lack of food and no respect and no fairness. The bible definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced, they were slaves not by choice but because they were Hebrews, God in fact rained down judgment Because of the Pharisees did this to them, and God Delivered them from this type of slavery. The bible Condems the practice of "Man-stealing" which is what happend in Africa i think sometime in the 19th century, where slave hunters took african and sold them to slave traders. God Hates this! In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic law was death: " Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death" Exodus 21:16

 

OK, apology accepted.

 

No, Christians have no bad reputation here. We don't like to generalize. Some of our beloved parents, wives, brothers and sisters are Christians. Ignorance and arrogance are the reasons that you folks are "attacked", not your religion.

 

I oversimplified the topic and showed you where morality comes from (cultural, social, civilizational and evolutionary causes) and you just sidestepped that argument and then you said: "respect, bravery, loyalty etc have the same definition everywhere universally". These can all be traced back to evolutionary advantages, so basically you still have no argument. What you have is a strong wish that god might be there, where you find something you personally do not understand.

 

I think that you have a huge gap in your world-view, which is that you do not have the faintest idea about evolution and therefore a huge part of your observations lead you to god, because you simply do not have a perspective to put these strange phenomenons into. (Sorry for the complex compound sentences, I love these in my native tongue. Are these OK/understandable in English?)

I do not even comment on the slavery part coz that's just ridiculous what you're saying.

[dyanaprajna0]

You're trying to sell us on good slavery, bad slavery. As modern men we know there is no such thing as good slavery. This only shows that the bible is not the word of an all knowing God, but rather the word of primitive savages. But its all we have of God's word, because there are no future prophets, because what they called a prophet thousands of years ago we call coo coo crazy today.

 

Our species existed about 200,000 years before your god was even invented. We developed our morality way before he came into the picture.

 

 

I've heard some xtians rationalize slavery by saying that when slavery is mentioned in the bible, it's not really slavery, but more like being a servant, or a butler, and that the people who were servants, wanted to be. It was a nice try, but ultimately it's a fail.

[Suzy]

The bible definitely does condemn race-based slavery.

 

So if slavery is not race-based (instead, religion based or nationality based or whatever) that makes it all OK?

 

Typical Christian apologetics: there's good slavery and bad slavery, good genocide and bad genocide etc. etc. I wish Christians would hear themselves from the outside when they try to defend the indefensible in their Bible!

 

BTW, every evil dictatorship does this kind of mind gimnastics to defend their immoral actions: "genocide is not OK, except when we do it because we have some higher, more noble goal that justifies it or even makes it necessary". The communists, the Nazis etc. all did this type of reasoning!

[mymistake]

You're trying to sell us on good slavery, bad slavery. As modern men we know there is no such thing as good slavery. This only shows that the bible is not the word of an all knowing God, but rather the word of primitive savages. But its all we have of God's word, because there are no future prophets, because what they called a prophet thousands of years ago we call coo coo crazy today.

Good slavery, bad slavery. Well said.

 

In other words, "good slavery" = moral, "bad slavery" = immoral, according to Christian standards.

 

So the absolute, unchanging moral standard is that when God does something or orders something then it's okay for him or his agents. But when God says to not do the same thing then it's evil for the rest of us to do it.

[mymistake]

(Sorry for the complex compound sentences, I love these in my native tongue. Are these OK/understandable in English?)

 

Like a professor. You have a better mastery of English than the average American.

[Ouroboros]

You're trying to sell us on good slavery, bad slavery. As modern men we know there is no such thing as good slavery. This only shows that the bible is not the word of an all knowing God, but rather the word of primitive savages. But its all we have of God's word, because there are no future prophets, because what they called a prophet thousands of years ago we call coo coo crazy today.

Good slavery, bad slavery. Well said.

 

In other words, "good slavery" = moral, "bad slavery" = immoral, according to Christian standards.

 

So the absolute, unchanging moral standard is that when God does something or orders something then it's okay for him or his agents. But when God says to not do the same thing then it's evil for the rest of us to do it.

Exactly.

 

(sarc)

Isn't it great? It can't be more "absolute" and "objective" than that, can it? (I'm being sarcastic of course, since it obviously is totally subjective and relative in every aspect. )

[Vigile]

Every time this damned thread pops up in the new content list I hear this song. I think it's a meme: