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Goodbye Jesus

Hi My Name Is Aaron And Im A Christian How Are You Today/nite/morning/afternoon?


Destinyjesus3000

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No deflections at all. Please quit trying to assign motives to me. I am asking for myself to possibly be able to better answer you sincere question. Why does this rub me so wrong about you? Is it me? Is it you? Both? I find it insulting when i read that.

 

If I may butt in. Perhaps it is a question you should explore on your own- allow things to breathe, and come back to it later with a fresh perspective (and perhaps topic). Right now no ground has been gained and none has been lost, but the environment suffers the most in wars of attrition.

Thank you Rev, and yes this is something where I need to withdraw and examine this with some distanced introspection. I do not wish to sow further discord with anyone.

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My fellow Ex-Christians, where is your manners?

 

Aaron, welcome, and thanks for posting here. I want to apologize on behalf of some of our rude posters.

 

We need to stop with this overly sensitive sniping, as it does not promote discourse, and the exchange of ideas.

 

Aaron I accept that you are lost, brainwashed, and will from time to time post things that could be taken offensive to us ex-Christians.

 

That said, I am fine with you (Aaron) writing Christian pre-programmed responses, and I do appreciate you coming here, as I think it is beneficial to everyone on either side of this thing.

 

Ok, so Aaron, you are lost myfriend, but I don't say this to put you down, or to offend you. And conversely, I am ok with you thinking that we Ex-Christians are hell-bound idiots controlled by Satan, himself. I really am and I take no offense to your arguments.

 

Ok, so I hope this meager post of mind might help set the tone for this thread going forward.

 

Aaron, again, welcome, and I for one hope that over time you will see how stupid and foolish Christianity is, and I am fine with you trying to convert us back.

 

Really :-)

 

Best regards,

TortillaLips

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No deflections at all. Please quit trying to assign motives to me. I am asking for myself to possibly be able to better answer you sincere question. Why does this rub me so wrong about you? Is it me? Is it you? Both? I find it insulting when i read that.

 

If I may butt in. Perhaps it is a question you should explore on your own- allow things to breathe, and come back to it later with a fresh perspective (and perhaps topic). Right now no ground has been gained and none has been lost, but the environment suffers the most in wars of attrition.

Thank you Rev, and yes this is something where I need to withdraw and examine this with some distanced introspection. I do not wish to sow further discord with anyone.

 

I would also ask that you hold off on answering my question too. I am very interested but it seems like this is a bad time for everybody (me too even though my stuff is off line). My interest is regarding handling the problem in life so it is important. But let's talk about it some other time. We can come back to it in a new thread later.

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Have you, in any case, in all your offensedness, seen our dear topicstarter anywhere?

 

I did good today smile.png

 

Aaron waved the white flag long ago. He said he was leaving Ex-C and I have not seen him since. It's too bad because he did have a cool handle. Maybe I should change my handle to JesusDestiny9K.

 

Aww, but I like the one you have now. I must say it'd be a hilarious trend though, wouldn't it? Just number them consecutively or something.

 

So much for Aaron and the long haul, huh? Probably better this way for him. If he's truly happy where he is, and he's not able to confront some of the questions and observations ex-Christians can make, it's probably better for him not to engage here. I hope his wedding went well. That video series I saw today, that Evidence one, made some interesting points about, to paraphrase my favorite poetess, prodding beach rubble if one hasn't got a robust stomach :)

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No deflections at all. Please quit trying to assign motives to me. I am asking for myself to possibly be able to better answer you sincere question. Why does this rub me so wrong about you? Is it me? Is it you? Both? I find it insulting when i read

that.

 

After all of that, post after post, you answered your own question.

 

And personally I was following this thread to talk to AARON! Not watch another board mess occur.

 

My suggestion is. Close this thread and be done. Anyone who wants to discuss issues that originally started here... start a new thread. And I would suggest that IF Antlerman and LivingLife want to continue this discussion, it should be moved to PM's.

 

Just MY opinion.

 

Please stop, move on or take it off the board.

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LL,

 

Skimming since you and I left off, but here's the point which I am somewhat sure you are aware. If we label mine woo, and yours non-woo, regardless of facts, reality, non-reality, blah de blah blah, none of them, as they are currently practised, unify the entirity.......So why persist? It's somewhat meaningless in the grand scheme of most everyone's desires.

End you saw my tone of our last discourse, I am not inflecting this woo word in every conversation as accused. If I was, I would have retracted and apologized.

 

I think I have illustrated the one time I have recently used it here and that was not grouping you or anyone, it was a general term and observation talking to a fellow atheist. If I do not type something here, I never said it and believe me I can be subtle (read:insulting) if I need to be.

 

If I am replying to a specific poster, I do not "hide" a message aimed at someone else. I have enough $5 words I can use directly at someone if that were my goal or mission in life.

 

It is kinda like a reversed love the sinner hate the sin, love the person hate the religion (and all it represents)

 

I am an ex christian not an ex buddhist or ex wiccan or ex pagan et al.

 

This is an ex christian site, it really should not be hard to fathom out why I am here.

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LL,

 

Skimming since you and I left off, but here's the point which I am somewhat sure you are aware. If we label mine woo, and yours non-woo, regardless of facts, reality, non-reality, blah de blah blah, none of them, as they are currently practised, unify the entirity.......So why persist? It's somewhat meaningless in the grand scheme of most everyone's desires.

End you saw my tone of our last discourse, I am not inflecting this woo word in every conversation as accused. If I was, I would have retracted and apologized.

 

I think I have illustrated the one time I have recently used it here and that was not grouping you or anyone, it was a general term and observation talking to a fellow atheist. If I do not type something here, I never said it and believe me I can be subtle (read:insulting) if I need to be.

 

If I am replying to a specific poster, I do not "hide" a message aimed at someone else. I have enough $5 words I can use directly at someone if that were my goal or mission in life.

 

It is kinda like a reversed love the sinner hate the sin, love the person hate the religion (and all it represents)

 

I am an ex christian not an ex buddhist or ex wiccan or ex pagan et al.

 

This is an ex christian site, it really should not be hard to fathom out why I am here.

 

I appreciate the response LL. You don't bother me. Like I said, you seem pretty straight forward and easy to read. I guess personally, after being here several years, I am wearing down of the purpose of the discussion. Sure it's fun on occasion, I agree......I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel, though I wish there were. On a brighter note, despite me making some real enemies, I have made a few friends. When I get stressed again, I will come back and beat on some more people....if your up for it.....

 

It's just refreshing when people actually consider what is being said rather than total dismissal......no fruit on that branch.

 

Thanks

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In this thread chronologically as dissertation if you will...

 

Blue for insults veiled or direct, [Green: my expansion and clarification] Dark red for compliments paid you'll get the gist I hope.

 

Destiny, why do you need some external law from a sky God to keep you behaving properly in society? Don't you have love in your own heart?

 

Drive-by buybull mooning 4 Jeebus

 

mooning.gif?w=450

 

I'm glad we're past the personal crap. Let's everyone drop it and keep moving on. The one thing about End, unlike your typical delusional Christian, he knows he's an ass sometimes. What you see is what you get. smile.png I'm just going to ask one thing End, next time you feel like attacking on a personal level, don't! You clearly have anger issues, but we're all pretty much fed up with this eye for an eye juvenile bullshit going on in these threads. Who gives a shit if you think someone else started it, for Christ's sake! Take the higher road, and voluntarily give yourself a break to find your calm before any more of this shit happens here. We don't need this, and it's unnecessary. Please don't make me get involved in putting an end to this.

 

BTW, I do recognize your sincerity. Again, just step away rather than go these damned paths. Please. Now, carry on you sexy Viking, as Florduh so described you.

 

Just an interesting post FWIW

 

My next post after a long abstinence (but reading along all the while)

 

The concept of an atheist becoming an xian IMO is flawed. If I take my personal experience, I rejected gawd at age 16 but really did not know for certain as I did not have the knowledge then that I have now. The gawd factor played no part in my life till 25ish when I started wondering again.

 

--snipped-- [Woo not used]

 

Rebellion =/= atheism.

 

--snipped--

 

Only when we got satellite TV did we see the woos doing their stuff and seeing the likes of the TBN clowns with our evangelical woos getting regular exposure on Sunday's programming.

Pretty obvious I am talking here of xians sp. evangelicals. My first use of the Woo word

 

My next post was in answering/offering an opinion to Akheia's post

 

AM, I find your reasoning regarding validation of subjective experiences fascinating.

 

-snipped--

 

Can you help me understand what makes an experience peer-reviewed? How do you assess a claim about a spiritual experience? [edit what I was responding to]

All of it happens in the brain. It is wishful thinking that there is some other dimension when one has to enter into meditation (altered brain states) to "connect".

 

IMO spirituality is just another excuse for nothing and those that seek other paths of enlightenment, well good for them but that does not prove any of it is real. [No woo words used (read the post)]

-snipped-

 

Your understanding is poor. Of course all of it happens in the brain. Duh. GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

--Snipped--

 

What is truth?

 

I have seen and used coercion in my woo daze, I know how it all works now. So perhaps from that standpoint, yes I have exposed the lie. [referred to myself]

 

-snipped--

 

Perhaps I was doomed from the get go as even after falling for the con, my rational mind just would not shut up plus I was raised or rather educated with a secular bias. Religion was a home thing and the bits I was exposed to at school were just other woos in school. Pretty ironic as the CoE still played a role as far as xian belief went but assemblies were no more than lip service to the norms of the day. [still talking about other xians. That is three woos]

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LivingLife, I have the clear perception you have your mind closed to this like a steel trap, so regardless of the actual content of what I would offer to help you understand the differences, you will just go ahead and make surface comparisons and conclude as you will.

 

--snipped for brevity--

 

Err, uhm, I don't think I have made any surface comparisons. But here again we see what I alluded to in that the "spiritualist" builds a strawman then proceeds to defeat it. I think I gave a few hints as to what I think these folk may attribute to spiritualism and stated that words need to be redefined.

 

There are no limits with rational thinking. It is how the world works in real life. Other dimensions, realities have no bearing on day to day life as we know it. The spiritualist assume that others are deficient for not exploring their imaginings (note here: it is all still in the head/brain).

 

It really boils down to this. Unless you can explain in rational terms w/o redefining words we all use and commonly understand their meaning(s), then I have to defer to logic and dismiss the claims until they can be empirically proven. One cannot explain a "spiritual" experience in these terms which leaves us one of three options. 1) It is a personal emotional thing, 2) It really does not exist outside of your own mind and thought processes, 3) It is a self willed illusion.

 

Perhaps stuff like this gives you a sense of peace, I don't need it as I am not really a troubled person. I know the limits of my interaction with the world and as such do not get myself in a twist because some kid in Somalia is dying every 6 seconds. When stuff pushes my buttons I react and rant or swear and then it is over.

 

Why is it folk like you get so overly sensitive when your stuff is challenged? You seem to have wisdom but I personally cannot see it coming from another dimension or reality.

 

I think some introspection is required here. I noticed that you took Florduh's and my comments/opinion way to personal.

 

Maybe, this is just my opinion/observation; you have much invested in this as you actually attended a bible college and maybe like me you have to find reasons behind the anointing that obviously you and I both experienced. Perhaps my secular education and solid foundation in the sciences is where we differ vastly.

 

I have found the answer to these fuzzy/warm/feel good feelings and they were, in my case [making it personal to myself here], all self induced. Obviously I looked for a rational/scientific explanation and found one that fits the "evidence". Perhaps your path of understanding this is a spiritual quest. Maybe the underlying differences is that my logical side of the brain is was was stimulated as a kid/young adult and not the emotional side so much. [notice my liberal use of the word Maybe and Perhaps?]

 

When all these personal "religious" experiences are postulated as merely personal and not any reflection of known reality, then perhaps I will defer to not challenge that "personal" aspect of a person's being. [snipped Amans comments for quote limits no woo words used here]

 

You commented that this is the same business you hear the Christians say. Believe me, that is only similar on the surface, save for a few very rare individuals within Christianity. In fact, you can hear the same words in many other traditions the world over which vastly deeper meaning.

 

-snipped for brevity-

-snipped--

Huge strawman and irrelevant to my answer to your accusation. And here is what I am claiming all along, a Personal Experience is anecdotal evidence. Perhaps for you that forms some alternative reality but as yet you have failed just like the xian to explain HOW this happens. I know WHY it happens, you want it to be real.

 

I am sure you are intelligent, I doubt this meditation actually made you smarter or wiser than you already are. Somewhere your preponderance had to come out filtered through your rational mind to attempt to explain it.

This is not 'woo' at all, this is not trusting some cosmic sky god for salvation to preserve our little lives, or whipping ourselves into so-called emotional warm fuzzies. In fact emotions are quite secondary and may or may not even be there within the experience

^^Strawman. I have not inferred your spirituality is anything more than something happening in your mind. Now you defer to a perception of a sky daddy, shoot that down where I made no such assertion. The comparison for clarification was the same debating techniques and circular arguments.

 

Point here, you could come over with less words and say the same stuff w/o being so "defensive" Can you see a pattern here that I clearly see? Our discussion is not about theology merely me challenging the concepts of spirituality as being relevant to the real world we live in.

 

Not so. My mental rational experiences can be described in layman's terms w/o the need for superfluous language and metaphors.

 

And here we are into altered states of consciousness and I have made comparisons to LSD already. How can this be anything other than wilful illusion (used that word as opposed to delusion but both words work.) [snipped out Aman's comments for quote limits - please refer to post using back link arrrow]

 

That means in all, that the seat of our self identity moves beyond our egoic identification. That is why the term 'transpersonal' is used. Naturally what happens as an effect of this, is much more truely objective point of view of ourselves and the world. We are less embedded in our own minds, caught in the swirl of thoughts and ideas and relationships and self images we create that we identify as "us".

 

Now mentally, emotionally, rationally, etc, I have had a stable, relatively even psyche. I have not had any mental disorders, emotional disorders, or social, or otherwise environmental instabilities that would be seen to spur one to seek escape into 'woo' as you always love to attack things outside your experience with.

 

Yes I do call it woo for simplistic reasons. It is a pretty all encompassing word. [Edit: at this point the use of woo was in response to the question/assertion - after the previous, I have not used it here directly with AMan - I am still addressing the concept of spirituality, Aman is deflecting with the woo word]

-snipped--

 

From here it went into LLvsAman warz1.0

 

You are extremely rude. I'm not interested in discussion with someone as stuck in religious thinking as you are. This is not a dialog. You have your beliefs.

 

We are probably pretty much up to date from here on where Aman and I apologised to each other. My next woo reference was to a fellow atheist Vigile and then the shit storm stated all over again.

 

This in then four occasions I used the word woo and used it generically or to refer specifically to myself or xians in general. It also appears it is OK for Aman to hand out direct "insults" of delusional christians yet we are not allowed to use the word woo.

 

I have never called anyone here a fucking moron, a delusional fool, a fucking idiot, fucking dense, etc. These are not proper ways to communicate. I seldom use smilies as I am usually serious with my posts on these religious matters. There was that true xian™ that I lost my rag with when he went ape shit against gays and we all know we have many gay members here. It is my nature to stand up for the "underdog" (meant in non condescending way) and even if a true xian™ did a drive-by against Aman, I would do likewise and defend the members here, even my arch rival Antlerman.3.gif

 

The word woo I have modified to woo daze to describe my/our time with xianity, or I may use the term wooish playing on the word Jewish and borrowing a cliché from the movie space balls ".. funny, you don't look Druish.." (I have a warped sense of humour not everyone appreciates) Of course let us not forget Wooistan - my description of alternate reality of the xians.

 

The only reason there may be a perception of the over use of the term woo, is that it appears in my interests and is supposed to be a Lolcatzspeek humorous entry plus it has been there for over a year if not longer (not sure if that is date stamped)

 

I also use fundiespeak when I want to use sarcasm and is proliferated with deliberate misspelled words - its a Lolcatz thing again as the fundies usually do not know the difference between grammar and grandma and proliferates their posts.

 

Kinda like:

 

Grammar is knowing your shit or knowing you're shit (I posted this in the funny pics thread recently)

 

I only vaguely recall someone else here had an issue with my use of the word woo in a post [it may have been Deva or Badpuppy - not sure] but that was like a year+ ago and that was something ranted about in the chat app. - I stand to be corrected if need be. IIRC I did clarify and I think I apologised for the misunderstanding. That may have been also the time I inadvertently wandered into the spirituality forum and was quickly informed my comments were not appreciated. Since then I do not go there (much) and if I do I do observe protocol. I respect that safe section and is really no skin off my back. I have no compunction of admitting that I am at fault if it can be demonstrated.

 

I did a search on all my posts up to the 5 March when I entered this thread on the word woos (seems the word must be 4 chars long) and got 135 hits from my posts. Dunno if this link will work for others as a search to validate but here it is (Search Link : does not work) that is (excluding these posts) 10.51% of all my posts over a period of more than 2 years

 

Apart from one minor altercation with Badpuppy, all of them are talking about xians either in the US or here in SA. I also used the term to refer to staunch right wing Afrikaaners (in a convo with BO and his obsession with gunz) who for the most part are very religious too and xian to boot.

 

My entry into the Spirituality forum where I used the word woo (here) and (here) it was only aimed at xians. None of my other 8 posts there had any insults veiled or direct.

 

So really I have been pretty conservative and if you replicate the search and browse the posts, there is no doubt as to who exactly I am applying the label woo to.

 

Now I want the last 6 hours of my life back biggrin.png At least my honour in my ever humble and oh so rotten atheist opinion remains intact.

 

What sayeth the brethren (and brethrenesses)?

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End you saw my tone of our last discourse, I am not inflecting this woo word in every conversation as accused. If I was, I would have retracted and apologized.

 

I think I have illustrated the one time I have recently used it here and that was not grouping you or anyone, it was a general term and observation talking to a fellow atheist. If I do not type something here, I never said it and believe me I can be subtle (read:insulting) if I need to be.

 

If I am replying to a specific poster, I do not "hide" a message aimed at someone else. I have enough $5 words I can use directly at someone if that were my goal or mission in life.

 

It is kinda like a reversed love the sinner hate the sin, love the person hate the religion (and all it represents)

 

I am an ex christian not an ex buddhist or ex wiccan or ex pagan et al.

 

This is an ex christian site, it really should not be hard to fathom out why I am here.

 

I appreciate the response LL. You don't bother me. Like I said, you seem pretty straight forward and easy to read.

Thanks

I guess personally, after being here several years, I am wearing down of the purpose of the discussion. Sure it's fun on occasion, I agree......I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel, though I wish there were. On a brighter note, despite me making some real enemies, I have made a few friends. When I get stressed again, I will come back and beat on some more people....if your up for it.....

Nice thing is you can give as good as you take it. That's a compliment BTW :D

 

As for your tunnel, we can take that up again later. Perhaps a new thread as this one is pretty much FUBAR.

 

It's just refreshing when people actually consider what is being said rather than total dismissal......no fruit on that branch.

Thanks

Likewise.

 

I just hope we can uproot this tree of knowledge AMan and I go around. (pun intended)

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I vote with London to close this thread.

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This thread's devolved into a whole bunch of cocktail-party conversations at this point and I'm not enjoying seeing LL and AM, two people I really like, beat up on each other like this. Until this squabble, I didn't even know this board had length limits for posts--usually I'm the one who figures that out within a week of joining a board.

 

It might be fruitful to move some of the more mystic discussions to Spirituality or even one of the more formal debate arenas. If Aaron ever returns he can start a new thread.

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I only vaguely recall someone else here had an issue with my use of the word woo in a post [it may have been Deva or Badpuppy - not sure] but that was like a year+ ago and that was something ranted about in the chat app. - I stand to be corrected if need be. IIRC I did clarify and I think I apologised for the misunderstanding. That may have been also the time I inadvertently wandered into the spirituality forum and was quickly informed my comments were not appreciated. Since then I do not go there (much) and if I do I do observe protocol. I respect that safe section and is really no skin off my back. I have no compunction of admitting that I am at fault if it can be demonstrated.

Ditto, and I am. I was once again wrong. And for what little it may be worth to you at this point again, I apologize. Your thoughts are lucid and clear, and was blinded by my own emotional knee-jerk reactions to be able clearly see your words. If I feel that reaction come up within me again as it did yesterday, I am not going to respond going forward. I will either withdraw or ask for clarity from a place of clear mind.

 

To try to understand a little of this from my history and why I find myself doing this, it goes back to the whole issue with the membership here being blatantly harassed by the more evangelical type atheists on this. We as a moderation staff received a barrage of complaints, and despite us trying to keep the peace, the Webmaster of the site decided for the interest of supporting those members who wanted to talk in peace to create a special protected forum for them. Despite that, we had to deal with them ignoring the rules, making snide and insinuating accusations that they were being coddled and protected, "Oh, that's right, we're not allowed to challenge thoughts in here", and a long list of endless banter like this. Woo, of course was a favorite word of choice.

 

The complaints continued to flow into the report box. I get personal emails over these continuing infractions and insults. Because I had a stronger interest in my own spiritual side, in addition to having a strong intellectual side, I decided to go toe to toe with these individuals who claimed rationality as supreme. I used reason to try to diffuse them and settle them and get them through reason to lay off. That experiment failed. It came down to just laying down the law and standing at the door with a sword. It settled a little, but then invariably another would enter in with the typical 'woo-woo' bullshit thrown at the membership here. The complaints hit my mailbox. I once again responded. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and Repeat. The attitudes of those members towards that forum were sour. It was to me a sad solution to the problem, to create a sort of 'protected forum' to keep members safe from other members who bit at them like wolves. Needless to say, the division was created. It is a division I as a rational person find tragic and irrational and offensive.

 

So, admittedly I've developed a severe dislike of the word woo. It has history here, and I have taken on a defensive posture now to my own disliking as a result of that. This is a time of self reflection for me with this history behind me, and I do not want to be a guilty of knee-jerking without reason as the sort of reasons behind those that drove members with spiritual interest into a 'protected forum', hearing anything touching on the spiritual and immediately lumping everyone into the lunacy they experiencing in their churches. In a word, I too would be a "woo" by that reasoning, but I am anything but fully aware of my rational mind in the exploration of these non-rational realities of human experience. I see those in the Spirituality Forum the same. Their understanding of their spiritual practices as post-Christians is not at all on the same pre-rational level of their mythic-literal Christian experience. But that doesn't matter to those who can't resist drive-by snipes. The woo-woo is still shot at them.

 

All that to say, I am particularly sensitive to that word and it has a long embedded history on this site and has and does create great division. You yourself pointed out the sort of knee-jerk that happened to yourself when you entered into that forum. That's the back story. All that to say, I accept your response to me, and again apologize. I am hoping I am able to heal that wound of my own from this history in order to move to a place of higher wisdom within me in seeing beyond that.

 

Peace.

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We are probably pretty much up to date from here on where Aman and I apologised to each other. My next woo reference was to a fellow atheist Vigile and then the shit storm stated all over again.

 

Glad I could help.

 

Woo! Woo!

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If I feel that reaction come up within me again as it did yesterday, I am not going to respond going forward.

 

When I'm making a stock trade and I feel jumpy, greedy, or fearful of missing the move, I know damn well my brain has shut down and something else has taken over. This is my tell that I better not make the trade. It's really crazy how truly deeply emotions can impact your decision making even when you are clearly aware of the potential landmines and think you are fully aware.

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I only vaguely recall someone else here had an issue with my use of the word woo in a post [it may have been Deva or Badpuppy - not sure] but that was like a year+ ago and that was something ranted about in the chat app. - I stand to be corrected if need be. IIRC I did clarify and I think I apologised for the misunderstanding. That may have been also the time I inadvertently wandered into the spirituality forum and was quickly informed my comments were not appreciated. Since then I do not go there (much) and if I do I do observe protocol. I respect that safe section and is really no skin off my back. I have no compunction of admitting that I am at fault if it can be demonstrated.

Ditto, and I am. I was once again wrong. And for what little it may be worth to you at this point again, I apologize. Your thoughts are lucid and clear, and was blinded by my own emotional knee-jerk reactions to be able clearly see your words. If I feel that reaction come up within me again as it did yesterday, I am not going to respond going forward. I will either withdraw or ask for clarity from a place of clear mind.

 

--snipped for brevity--

I do not want to say I accept your apology as that suggests a win-lose IMO. I will however say I appreciate the sincerity of this post and accept it in the spirit I am sure it was given.

 

I am cursed with a pedantic memory and attention to detail and I felt it prudent to extract the facts and present them. Of course I do not stand blameless either.

 

If we did not have this s/w glitch, 90% of this probably would not have transpired. I also get frustrated easily when shit like that happens and esp. in the middle of a long reply with these frigging quotes and trying to trim them to the max allowed blocks.

Peace.

Likewise - Peace.

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I also vote this thread be locked.

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We need to not go at each other ever again. We make a huge mess when we do. I've got a lot of food for thought and insights to process through all this. I appreciate that opportunity. What an interesting and meandering thread. The votes to lock the thread prevails. In the end, let there be Peace.

 

Topic closed.

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