Guest Babylonian Dream Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 My brother told me, "There is a god, and there's proof. You just won't reason and listen to it." I asked him what his proof was. He said that he had his prayers answered. That's how he could prove it. He gave me an example. He said that he prayed for a job and he got one that he loves. I then asked him about the time when he and I together prayed for our grandpa to live, but he died anyway. He got defensive quick. He said that sometimes God has higher priorities, that there are things he needs that we don't understand, that required grandpa to be in heaven (an atheist/agnostic). I reminded him that grandpa wasn't a believer, that according to Christianity, he was in hell. My brother got mad and walked away. But what is it with the "if the prayer is answered, then its proof God is real. If not, then its proof God has a plan". There's no way to prove anything with their logic, you could replace God in this instance with proof of Gumby, Zeus, and the almighty Spok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyanaprajna0 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I think George Carlin said it best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Definitely agree. When it comes to BS, nothing comes close to religion in that department. Second would be politics though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Oy... I know finding a job can be hard in this economy, but it can still be accomplished without supernatural intervention. Also what's up with xtians believing their little anecdotes to be "proof"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Now that my mom realizes that none of her biblical interpretations or apolgetics will work on me, she just screams, "You just haven't had the personal experiences I did, you don't know about them." You know because my lack of faith is my "fault." There is so much pain in her voice when she says things like this to me. It just makes me sad for her. I think it's healthy to just draw a boundary and say, look look I love you, let's just talk not discuss religion. I mean my mother doesn't seem to be able to have any type of conversation without discussing her opinions about god. But there comes a point when you just want to be like normal people, and have a normal relationship and the only way to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 sorry is to leave god out of the discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I hear you. To them I guess it's experiential proof, however, many of us here have had the same proof and just began to research or study at some point when the experience wasn't enough. Churches teach people how to create experiences and then punish them via mental or emotional abuse when people do not have these experiences or see through the experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Christianity is based on circular reasoning: god is true because the bible says so. The bible is true because god says so. Boo-yah! Take that atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Churches teach people how to create experiences and then punish them via mental or emotional abuse when people do not have these experiences or see through the experiences. Word!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Now that my mom realizes that none of her biblical interpretations or apolgetics will work on me, she just screams, "You just haven't had the personal experiences I did, you don't know about them." You know because my lack of faith is my "fault." There is so much pain in her voice when she says things like this to me. It just makes me sad for her. I think it's healthy to just draw a boundary and say, look look I love you, let's just talk not discuss religion. I mean my mother doesn't seem to be able to have any type of conversation without discussing her opinions about god. But there comes a point when you just want to be like normal people, and have a normal relationship and the only way to do that Have you ever been told that God's miracles are all around you, but you keep you eyes closed to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Have you ever been told that God's miracles are all around you, but you keep you eyes closed to them? Not exactly that. But I've gotten unto huge fights with my mom when I've tried to pin her down to the actual definition of what a miracle is, she thinks not getting into a car accident is a miracle. Now I know not to use reason and logic with people who don't use reason and logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 pray in one hand, shit in the other, see which one gets filled first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hilarious thread name, btw. You know, if you want to get technical about experiential anecdotes being "proof" of a god, every religion on earth has that. Coincidence masquerading as a miracle is part of just about every faith system. I said it once and will say it again: people who think that a weak-ass "miracle" like getting a job is proof of their god's existence are selling their souls all too cheaply. If I'm going to dive into a religion as misogynistic and backwards as Christianity, I better goddamned well see some pillars of fire from the sky, manna from heaven that melts every morning, talking animals, hybrid monsters roaming the land, and seas parting for no good reason. When I hear a Christian talking about these pathetic coincidences and calling it divine intervention, my heart breaks for the poverty of soul those statements display. In the oldest stories, miracles meant something: they were undeniable, achingly obvious displays of power and majesty that were impossible to misconstrue or ignore. Now Christians scrabble for crumbs and call them a feast. It's unspeakably sad. How much can a soul ache for some touch of the divine when it is willing to settle so low, to give so much to get so little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Oy... I know finding a job can be hard in this economy, but it can still be accomplished without supernatural intervention. Also what's up with xtians believing their little anecdotes to be "proof"? The funny thing is, I wanted to get the helll out of my mom's house so badly that I actually prayed to get a job, and I got one. But it was me who landed me the job, because I put forth all the effort I could muster. It was MY abilities and my effort and that alone that got me it. Not some supernatural being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 My brother told me, "There is a god, and there's proof. You just won't reason and listen to it." OH I HATE THAT. It reminds me of some of the annoying little games kids would play in elementary school! I hear you. To them I guess it's experiential proof, however, many of us here have had the same proof and just began to research or study at some point when the experience wasn't enough. Churches teach people how to create experiences and then punish them via mental or emotional abuse when people do not have these experiences or see through the experiences. Yeah. I always wondered why you needed faith for god to "reveal himself to you". Wouldn't it be the non believers and skeptics that god would need to reveal himself to? That sounds awfully fishy to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Maybe God is just shy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyanaprajna0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 God's mom: "it's ok god, come on out. You can play with them, they won't bite." God: "but I don't wanna." God's mom: "god, I'm not going to tell you again, if you don't make friends, the kids will make fun of you." God: "I wanna go home (starts crying)" God's mom: "god, what am I going to do with you, crucify you?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think through evolution we're primed for a belief in a deity, therefore the experiential proof is the only one which really makes any sense (pretty much every other "proof" fails in my opinion). Hard belief in something does in fact make it seem real, whither that thing is a deity, that santa claus is dropping your presents off or the belief that the CIA is reading your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I think George Carlin said it best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o I've seen this many times and yet still watch it from time to time. Too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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