jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't help but respond to facebook posts of my xtian friends now, so it appears that I will soon out myself as a heathen The following discussion happened this afternoon. *Brad is a little younger than me and obviously facing a crises of faith. In case it's not obvious, Ray is by far the most religious. ----------------------------------------------------------- Brad: Why is it that we r put thru trials of faith and we r to trust in god but in reality we can't. My heart says one thing and my mind says another if I follow my heart I will happy but if I follow my brain I will not be happy. Courtney: I say go with your heart. It's always better to be happy then miserable. Brad: See people tell me that all the time but life won't allow you to just do what god has planned for you cause the bills don't stop coming and then where does that put you and a family on the street. Jason (Me): I say use your brain. Rational decisions made now will fund emotional decisions later. Courtney: I know what you mean, I am counting down the days until I get to tell Apple, to shove it up their Apple. If it wasn't for my bills, I would've walked out of that place along time ago. But I'm going to play Stephanie's optimistic role, and my new one too. We just have to believe that one day everything will work itself out. Jason (Me): If you give yourself permission to do the rational thing, I guarantee your happiness will increase. Misery comes from the inability to adjust ones beliefs when reality does not reconcile with beliefs. It's known as cognitive dissonance. Stephanie (Brad's wife): Brad maybe you should have coffee With Jason, maybe you need a different perspective. Jason (Me): I like coffee Ray: "we r to trust in god but in reality we can't." Why can't you trust in God? Think about it guys...........I am working on a lesson for India right now, I will post part of it for you. When I finish I will post the entire lesson later tonight. When you look at your circumstances you stop looking at God''s word, so you have to make a decision, are you going to look at your circumstances or are you going to look at God's words? You cannot see them both at one time. You can’t see me and see the people sitting on the back row at the same time. What you look at you think about. God says to keep the word before your eyes. So when you are always looking at the situation your in, the lack, the problems at home, the job, the problems with work, whatever it is that has you concerned instead of looking at what God says about it you are not doing as God says and keeping his words before your eyes. Ray: I most certainly respect others thoughts but I don't necessarily have to agree with them. For instance: "Misery comes from the inability to adjust ones beliefs when reality does not reconcile with beliefs." Let me share with you a personal experience that we all know about, speaking in tongues. The brain tells us that it is crazy, all that stupid mumbling. My spirit tells me that the Holy Spirit is doing my talking for me. Romans 8:26, "26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans." I received my Baptism evidenced with the speaking of tongues on a Wednesday night service when Pastor Kerry Wood said to put the brain aside and let the Holy Spirit take over. Jason (Me): With respect to your opinion Ray, I believe that humans have the ability to look at more than one thing at a time. We should not go blindly down any path. When faced with two conflicting sets of circumstances and/or beliefs, one of those two opposing forces has to give way to the other in order to maintain sanity. This is especially evident when the dissonance extends from days to weeks to decades to a lifetime. We all have heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. In my opinion, either we evaluate evidence leading to rational decisions that can actually change circumstances, or we ignore evidence and descend into ever deeper levels of delusion. Jason (Me): I suggest we not hi-jack this thread any longer. Bottom line is that I love you Brad, and I would be honored to listen and help in any way you like. Hit me up whenever bro Brad: I really do appreciate all the thoughts and any help is good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 All you did was out yourself as a good friend, who can stay on one conversational track without going out in 80 billion different directions. You did good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Seems as if Stephanie knows your secret, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Seems as if Stephanie knows your secret, yes? Nope. She just thinks I'm a good influence I guess She may not think so if I really have coffee with Brad, he asks for real advice, and I give it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Seems as if Stephanie knows your secret, yes? Nope. She just thinks I'm a good influence I guess She may not think so if I really have coffee with Brad, he asks for real advice, and I give it to him. If you do out yourself and get FB comments from these people please put those up too so we can get the before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sounds to me like Brad is on his way out, J. Hit him up for a coffe, I reckon, and tell him where you're at. Sounds to me like he's close, and could probably use the support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I like your subtle and thought provoking approach. Also, the respectful tone you have used is great. If you do get to talk with Brad over a coffee, you should continue to speak in general, rationsl terms. Brad will be much better off if he can get to the point where he has real ownership of the thoughts that motivate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMneg Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't help but respond to facebook posts of my xtian friends now, so it appears that I will soon out myself as a heathen The following discussion happened this afternoon. *Brad is a little younger than me and obviously facing a crises of faith. In case it's not obvious, Ray is by far the most religious. ----------------------------------------------------------- Brad: Why is it that we r put thru trials of faith and we r to trust in god but in reality we can't. My heart says one thing and my mind says another if I follow my heart I will happy but if I follow my brain I will not be happy. Hope you can help Brad find his way out. What are the consequences for you if you out yourself on FB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 If you do out yourself and get FB comments from these people please put those up too so we can get the before and after. I will for sure. It could get interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sounds to me like Brad is on his way out, J. Hit him up for a coffe, I reckon, and tell him where you're at. Sounds to me like he's close, and could probably use the support I haven't decided whether to call him or just let my invitation stand and see if he calls me. I'm not sure I am ready to be an activist yet, however I am sure that I am ready to answer all questions honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 All you did was out yourself as a good friend, who can stay on one conversational track without going out in 80 billion different directions. You did good. Thank you DeanMen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 I like your subtle and thought provoking approach. Also, the respectful tone you have used is great. If you do get to talk with Brad over a coffee, you should continue to speak in general, rationsl terms. Brad will be much better off if he can get to the point where he has real ownership of the thoughts that motivate him. Good advice Blue. BTW, my last name is Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sounds to me like Brad is on his way out, J. Hit him up for a coffe, I reckon, and tell him where you're at. Sounds to me like he's close, and could probably use the support I haven't decided whether to call him or just let my invitation stand and see if he calls me. I'm not sure I am ready to be an activist yet, however I am sure that I am ready to answer all questions honestly I don't really see it as being an activist. It sounds like he could just use a friend, and besides which, churchie people aren't always the most interested in just listening to someone when they're doing it tough- they've always got to come out with stupid platitudes. I say find an excuse to see him because to me, it sounds as though he's screaming out for a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 What are the consequences for you if you out yourself on FB? That is the question for sure OMneg. Our children know about our deconversion. A few close friends know who we trust to keep it to themselves. But our families and other close friends do not know. So coming out to anyone else is pretty much coming out to everyone. We just have to be sure that we are willing to do that. I think I am ready but I'm not sure that my wife (2Honest) is ready yet. On one hand, we don't want to cause emotional devastation (parents thinking we are going to hell and such), but on the other hand, we don't like to see our family and friends (at least the ones where xtianity is obviously not working for any longer like Brad above) continue down a pointless path. It's tough to know when/how to say what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMneg Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 If you're not quite ready to come out, then don't. I think you should kick back and see what happens. If Brad's faith is crumbling, it may be able to get patched up for a bit but it will crumble again. If he takes you up on the coffee offer, you may have your opportunity. Talk to him when he's ready to hear it and he's less likely to out you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Ha, I was wondering for a second if this guy was my brother in law. His name is Ray and he recently came back from a mission trip to India, where he apparenty acquired the spiritual gift of 'healing'. I'm dreading the inevitable argument that i'm going to have next time I see him, since I came out to my family a few days ago. I really admire the way you're supporting your friend by the way. Just being there and listening is so important. Christians don't wanna listen, they just want to insert their ideas in your head. I know because I never used to really listen to anyone. I would just be nodding along with them, the whole time thinking, 'now how do I inject the idea of Jesus into this conversation?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks Owen. This Ray is 70 years old. He and his wife are going to India for two weeks at their own expense (which they can't afford) to teach pastors. They were invited through a random facebook "friend". I'm actually very concerned that they are being conned probably in more ways than the obvious. But, logic has no place in xtianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 My Ray is 64, I think (he's like 20 years older than my sister). And he and my sister are planning on going back there soon, not sure when. I've been to India myself, although not for anything church-related. You cannot trust anyone over there, just about everyone I spoke to was trying to relieve me of my money. Dont get me wrong, they are beautiful people, but poverty makes good people do desperate things. As far as I can gather, the only work my brother in law did over there on his 'mission trip' in the slums of Mumbai was to pray for people. Then he went home via Dubai, where he spent $500 on clothes. I kid you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I agree with the other posters that Brad sounds like he's on the ledge as far as being a believer goes. Between you and Ray, I think your advice--to be rational and open his mind to new possibilities--was far more helpful. Ray seemed to be saying "just keep the blinders on and something should happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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