Suzy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have been visiting my fundy father today. He doesn't know I'm an atheist, he only knows I don't go to church. Growing up I adored my father, even idolized him in a way. I was very much a daddy's girl. But right now I am at a point where I don't really like to make visits to him any more. It's because all he can talk about is Jesus and his fundy beliefs. Nothing else interests him. I'm glad when his wife is in the room because though she too is a fundy but at least with her you can talk about other things than religion, with her you can have casual conversations. Not with my father. When you have a conversation with him, in just 2 minutes he will turn it to Jesus, the Babble, end times and all the crap. He relates everything to that. He's become so brainwashed that it's painful and it made me so angry that while he was preaching to me (he is literally preaching when he talks about Jesus) inside I kept saying to myself "fuck Jesus, fuck your God, dad". I would never say it loud in his face though. The problem is that my dad had a brain stroke ten years ago and Jesus is his only hope now that he will ever have a normal life again, or at least he will get his health back in the afterlife. I don't want to make him more worried for me (it's enough that he worries for me because I don't go to church), so I keep biting my tounge and I just listen to his little sermons and say nothing. He's been a fundy for 20 years, but he wasn't like this before his stroke. Maybe it's also because of his condition. Today he was preaching about Iran and the end times to me and how everything is shaping up for the big finale. And how the EU is Rome and the evil empire predicted in the Bible. You know that fundy crap. I really miss the days when I could have meaningful conversations with him, when he was interested in other things than religion as well, and when I could have access to his real self, and not just to this brainwashed religious zombie he has become. In a way it feels like my dad is not there any more, so I really have to force myself to visit him while back in the day I couldn't wait. It's so sad that we have lost that connection because of this fucking religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 This is so sad, Suzy. I am glad for the times you did have and all the things he contributed to your life. I hope there are still moments like that. He has been blessed to have you as a daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Aside from the stroke thing, this is exactly how my father has become. One of the few reasons I fear leaving my position working at the church is that I won't be able to spend as much time with my dad. We'll watch some funny videos during lunch on YouTube or Break.com and that's about the only non-religious thing we do. I'm afraid that when I leave, he will complete his "transition to the dark side" if you know what I mean. Right now, his attitude and "holier than thou" attitude is destroying his marriage to my mom. My mom is actually terrified about spending the rest of her life with him once I'm gone. He has made it clear that his expectations for her are strictly Biblical and he gets pissed whenever she does or says anything that isn't Biblical. Mom and him have nothing in common anymore and it's all because of the fucking church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wow, that really sucks. Your father has set aside much of his humanity for a myth. My parents are quiet believers so I guess I'm lucky in that respect. I wish it were better for you, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm with you, I've not had a meaningful conversation with my dad in a while. All he can talk about is Jesus and the end times. I've longed for so long to have a good relationship but all I get is preaching. I wish I could help you or give you advice but I'm clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 My father is a deacon in the Baptist church and a lifelong fundy. He has gotten more religious after his retirement. I sympathize. He doesn't preach to me though, because i suspect he knows I am not a Christian. Its a tremendous loss when people in the same family can't have a meaningful conversation because of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted March 10, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2012 Its a tremendous loss when people in the same family can't have a meaningful conversation because of religion. For sure! It's disgusting when anyone places a higher priority on their dogma than on their family -- or any other human being, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted March 10, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2012 Suzy, that really is sad....and it's also the reason I avoid most of my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Suzy I cringe as I read your account! My daughter is in her late 30's and I often pause and wonder what she thinks of her dear ole dad! My dad did not have much to say to any of his children. The only real relationship I had with him was my taking care of him when he had too much to drink--and he always had too much rot gut booze to drink! I'm closer to him now than I've ever been (he died 22 years ago). Sounds strange I know but it was only after his death that I could really evaluate my feelings for a man who could not communicate his feelings of love without being "bombed out of his conscious mind." Only after his death was I free enough to allow myself to understand it wasn't my problem that he did not "know" himself well enough to give himself away to his family without any strings attached--to love us and honor what we needed. He did love and provide for us in his own conditional way with way too many strings. It was too tough for him to live in his own skin and therefore he had a limited amount of himself to give. . The lesson I learned from his life was not to do my life as he did his. I wonder sometimes if my daughter has benefited or has been harmed from the lessons he taught me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I sympathize, Suzy. I had to cut my dad out of my life for something similar and I miss him so much. Well, I guess I miss the Kodak moments. The potential. I so desperately wanted a movie-style daddy/daughter relationship. But the reality was that my dad is broken, it was never going to be that way, and it was tearing me up so bad that in the end I had to protect myself. But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell sometimes, even if I know I did the right thing for my own individual situation. I have no advice, only sadness and a wild hope that things improve one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thanks, guys. I don't expect advice. There's not really a good solution to this. If I told him I was an atheist and let's not talk about God any more, I know it would only make matters worse. So the only thing I can do is to avoid him as much as I can. I only visit him once in every two-three months. And for that one day I can pretend to be a Christian. Not that I overly pretend it, eg. when they pray over meal, I never do. But when they explicitly ask if I still believe in God, if I still pray, if I read the Bible, I lie to them that I do. But it's sad that we have totally lost communication - I mean meaningful communication. Like I said it probably has to do with my father's condition as well, plus with the fact that since he is sick the only place he goes out to is church and other religious events (last week they went to see a lecture of Marlyn Hickey). And when he's at home he listens to sermons on CD, mp3 and live streams from the church on the Internet. So pretty much his world is revolving around this shit more than ever and that's the only impulse he gets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Religion is such a disease. I know the more "spiritual" I became, the less I was concerned about anything unrelated to Christianity. It just seemed so worldly and to be sitting around and talking about anything else than our spiritual lives, or theology or whatever else related to Christianity and the Bible. Come to think of it, I alienated a lot of Christians at my church because that's all I'd talk about. All they wanted to talk about was what music they're listening to, what was on TV and what their plans for the week ahead was. I'm so sorry to hear that he is still in this cloud and that because of it, you can't actually get to discussing anything meaningful. It must be painful. Since he listens and watches so much stuff at home, is it at all possible to get him into some sort of documentaries and try to flow the conversation from there? Though he may be blinded by Christianity, hopefully there are other topics he use to be fascinated by that you could tug at and steer him towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Religion is such a disease. I know the more "spiritual" I became, the less I was concerned about anything unrelated to Christianity. It just seemed so worldly and to be sitting around and talking about anything else than our spiritual lives, or theology or whatever else related to Christianity and the Bible. Come to think of it, I alienated a lot of Christians at my church because that's all I'd talk about. All they wanted to talk about was what music they're listening to, what was on TV and what their plans for the week ahead was. Yeah, I had that period as a Christian too. So I know what it's like from the "inside". When you are taught that the end is close at hand and Jesus is coming back soon and you believe that then besides preparing yourself everything else seems meaningless and unimportant. You don't want to get caught "asleep" so all your focus is on "God's things". I pretty much fucked up my college years because of this mind set. I'm so sorry to hear that he is still in this cloud and that because of it, you can't actually get to discussing anything meaningful. It must be painful. Since he listens and watches so much stuff at home, is it at all possible to get him into some sort of documentaries and try to flow the conversation from there? Though he may be blinded by Christianity, hopefully there are other topics he use to be fascinated by that you could tug at and steer him towards. He was a pretty rational guy before converting. When I was little he got me interested in astronomy, for example. I think he is still interested in that, but only from a Christian POV. So he's got Christian DVDs on astronomy, with those beautiful images from Hubble, but which will talk about astronomical phenomenons only as means to glorify the greatness of God, but won't disturb the viewer with facts like the Universe is 13.7 billion years old and not 6000 years old or that most of the chemical elements are formed inside stars and so on. I don't think he would watch anything that contradicts the Christian teachings. He'd just put them down as the Devil's lies. I did try to take the conversation into other directions sometimes. An interesting book I read or an interesting documentary I saw. Only to get lectured about the uselessness of it all by my dad. How the only books worth reading are the Bible and Christian books. Everything else is a waste of time. He literally said that! And he always ends up with such comments, whenever I have enthusiasm about or interest in anything else than Christianity. I was still a Christian when it already bugged me a lot. In fact, I think this behaviour by my dad helped me deconvert, when I started to think about: "Wait a minute, why am I not allowed to enjoy anything else? Why do we have to have such a disrespect for science? Look down on people as mislead by the devil who know better than us!". And I started to read science books, a book on cosmology first - and they blew me out of my bubble... Yesterday he gave me a Christian book as a gift. Something about Islam and the end times. Last time we met he gave me two other Christian books. And he said, "one day you will consider these as the most worthy books of your library". Yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted March 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thanks, guys. I don't expect advice. There's not really a good solution to this. If I told him I was an atheist and let's not talk about God any more, I know it would only make matters worse. So the only thing I can do is to avoid him as much as I can. I only visit him once in every two-three months. And for that one day I can pretend to be a Christian. Not that I overly pretend it, eg. when they pray over meal, I never do. But when they explicitly ask if I still believe in God, if I still pray, if I read the Bible, I lie to them that I do. But it's sad that we have totally lost communication - I mean meaningful communication. Like I said it probably has to do with my father's condition as well, plus with the fact that since he is sick the only place he goes out to is church and other religious events (last week they went to see a lecture of Marlyn Hickey). And when he's at home he listens to sermons on CD, mp3 and live streams from the church on the Internet. So pretty much his world is revolving around this shit more than ever and that's the only impulse he gets. I think you came to your own conclusions Suzie and they are good ones. I give you a million points for just 'pretending' and being there to love him anyway. In some ways these older people with strokes takes so much patience to be around. I have a mother-in-law (90) who tells the same stories over and over and over. Some days, I feel like i'm going to lose my mind...but I sit there and continue to acknowledge her stories for her with a smile pasted on my face. I'm always so glad when the visit is over...... but at least I tried... and that's what you are doing........ Just love him the best way you know how!! Sounds like you're doing a great job! 5 stars to you!! ***** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookeGF Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Maybe he is doing this so that he can convert you. If he knows that you are not going to church, then he probably thinks that you are not right with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's a good point. There were a few people who found out I wasn't having kids and immediately their topics of conversation dwindled to absolutely nothing but how awesome parenting and babies was; outings were restricted to places with tons of babies; I got subtly pushed into daycare and Sunday School duties at the church (which didn't work, but that was more to their benefit than mine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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