Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, some beans got spilled today. Not all of them, but enough for the listener to know I’m taking my beans seriously. Eek!!! My parents don’t know I’m a non-delusional human an atheist. Anyhow, I was speaking with my mother on the phone. We are having an extended family drama, in which I am unable to participate fully for the thankful matter of being separated by considerable geography. The drama is still affecting me, but I try to keep a handle on my emotions as my mother fills me in. Today, I felt like being a little honest and pushing some buttons. We got onto the topic of prayer, with my life as an example. (She used to think I was a 'prayer warrior', although I have told her a million times I am not; so that's her last frame of reference.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me: Oh, I saw what Aunt Mary put on Facebook. Mother: Oh brother. She should keep this off Facebook. Me: I know. She keeps asking people to pray. Like that’ll do any good! Mother: (Pause) But prayer does help. God just doesn’t answer the way we want sometimes. Me: Meh, not really. I mean, that's not been my experience. Suppose I’ve prayed, say, 3000 times for God to (lessen a symptom I am experiencing), and he has done absolutely nothing. Ever! I mean, it just seems kind of crazy that the Bible says he’s compassionate, but I certainly would not treat my daughter like this. I wouldn’t treat my dog like this. Not even a fly! ...I think I’m more compassionate than God. Mother: Well, you’re not. Me: You know, I spend my life alleviating the pain of others and trying to make the world a better place. I would do anything to advance that goal. I wonder why God just stands there with his arms folded? Mother: Well, he doesn’t. Me: Hm. That’s kind of what it feels like though, as I suffer myself. I mean, would you make another person suffer? Doesn’t the Bible say that we should not withhold good when it’s within our power to act? Geez, I don’t withhold good when it’s within my power to act. Mother: I just don’t understand why you’re so mad at God! Me: I’m not. I’m struggling to understand why what I read in my Bible is so incredibly different from what I am experiencing. It’s confusing, you know? Mother: Well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not sure how this will work its way through the family telegraph. I hope it doesn't. But that's where I left it. That's enough fun for one day! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Honestly it sounds like a good way to soften the blows rather that ripping the band aid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 That's kind of how I do it. I don't want to come out and tell my mom I'm an atheist. I'm hoping she'll catch on eventually. She knows I don't go to church and she'll ask if I got my ashes on Ash Wednesday and such, and I'll say no. She probably just figures I'm busy. This Easter will be my second without attending church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I thought you were rather diplomatic throughout that conversation, Positivist. Unfortunately, in the eyes of a christian, you said some unspeakable things. It's all so back-and-white, hey. I hope that it all doesn't end too badly for you. Myself- I get too blunt sometimes, put my foot in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think you did a really good job in that conversation. You didn't put your mother down for believing in prayer. But what you did do was to bring out one of the primary problems with the Christian belief that god will intercede on one's behalf through prayer. You spoke not so much what the Bible says about prayer or what the clergy preach about it, but your own experiences with it. The Bible makes really grandiose promises about prayer and the Jesus depicted in the New Testament, in particular, is more grandiose than anyone else on the subject. Your questions and observations cut right to the heart of the matter and, though Christians try, there are no real answers to your questions from a Christian perspective other than things like we can't understand god's ways or god must have other plans, etc. I don't know your mother, of course, but I can almost guarantee you that she has asked the same questions and made the same observations you have, though she may not have shared them with you. The thing is that for her or any Christian to acknowledge the truth of what you are getting at could very well undermine her one last hope. And that hope is that there really is a loving god out there who is actually hearing her prayers and just might intervene. That hope is tough to jeopardize. Many on ExC have expressed how difficult it was finally to give up that hope. The desire to preserve the hope that prayers are effective leads to all the rationalizing that we see over and over again. Personally, I think one of the most cruel aspects of Christianity is that it offers a hollow hope. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If god helps her it was in his plan, he ignores her prayers its because god's ways aren't our ways. I get so tired of hearing that. Good job with the polite discussion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Me: Hm. That’s kind of what it feels like though, as I suffer myself. I mean, would you make another person suffer? Doesn’t the Bible say that we should not withhold good when it’s within our power to act? Geez, I don’t withhold good when it’s within my power to act. Mother: I just don’t understand why you’re so mad at God! Me: I’m not. I’m struggling to understand why what I read in my Bible is so incredibly different from what I am experiencing. It’s confusing, you know? Mother: Well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not sure how this will work its way through the family telegraph. I hope it doesn't. But that's where I left it. That's enough fun for one day! Well you are brave! Kudos to you for that. I was expecting your mother to play the "suffering builds character card". That is the crap I get from my family. God gives suffering to us because we need it. And they think I'm a fundie. That is just the stuff they normally say as part of their normal life. Good on you for having the courage to rock the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Honestly it sounds like a good way to soften the blows rather that ripping the band aid off. True! I wish I could stay completely silent, but the bandaid wants to come off. Like you said, a little at a time is sometimes best. Thanks for the encouragement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 That's kind of how I do it. I don't want to come out and tell my mom I'm an atheist. I'm hoping she'll catch on eventually. It seems parents see only what they want to see, sometimes, when it comes to their grown children. Time to use this to our advantage! Thanks, Joe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Unfortunately, in the eyes of a christian, you said some unspeakable things. ...and it was super fun! I am so tired of defending God, and finally being able to be honest is such a relief. Thanks BP! I appreciate your ongoing support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Your questions and observations cut right to the heart of the matter and, though Christians try, there are no real answers to your questions from a Christian perspective other than things like we can't understand god's ways or god must have other plans, etc. ~~~~~ Personally, I think one of the most cruel aspects of Christianity is that it offers a hollow hope. Thanks, OF!! I appreciate your insights and support!! My mother is a strong but unquestioning believer. She has never questioned her own faith and has an extremely simplistic view of, well, everything. I agree--the empty promises and false hope are too cruel for words. I think this is what has hurt me the most: finding out that it is all empty. Thanks OF! I always appreciate your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 If god helps her it was in his plan, he ignores her prayers its because god's ways aren't our ways. I get so tired of hearing that. I know, hey? It's these excuses that drive me crazy. The first step to losing my faith was, in fact, stopping making excuses for God. I actually wince every time I hear one of these excuses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I was expecting your mother to play the "suffering builds character card". That is the crap I get from my family. ~~~ Good on you for having the courage to rock the boat. Thankfully, my mom can't really think on her feet and I can out maneuver her fairly easily in any discussion. I'm sure she'll have a retort in another conversation. So, more fun to look forward to! Fingers crossed I only rock the boat, and not overturn it all together! Eek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Good job! You are braver than me. It sounds like you are going with the plan to let them know you are disenchanted with the church/God, and slowly build on that theme. I like it. Keep us updated on how that goes. I am on a similar plan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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