Jesus Is So Sweet And Kind...

[Antlerman]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

But he was speaking to the Christians of his day, the Pharisees.

[Noggy]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

 

Man, Jesus was so dhyana. What a troll.

[mymistake]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

 

Wait a minute. Is this the same Abraham who abandoned his wife and child out in the desert to die of thirst? Is that the same Isaac who lied to Pharaoh allowing his wife to be married off to another man but then still snuck in to get some nookie anyway? Is that the same Jacob who used lies, deception and extortion to get what belonged to his brother?

 

Why are they in heaven?

[FeelHappy]

I've learned from my experiences that some people are just better off with a belief in god. I know to some ex-christians that sound wrong, but I don't think so. While I believe that christianity if false, it does give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside when your life goes to shit to sit back and feel that 'behold all things work together for the good of those who love the lord and are called according to his purpose', what a great feeling to know that god has a purpose during your season of struggle.

 

Victory, I wish you well in your future endeavors, try to remember some of the posts you've seen here and know that us heathen are people with feelings just like you only with different beliefs so continue try to accept everyone as they are with open arms, it works way better than condemnation. You seem to do that with your post, so try not to let it change.

[Ouroboros]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

But he was speaking to the Christians of his day, the Pharisees.

Yeah. Just like "love thy neighbor." That was only for the Pharisees too.

[Ouroboros]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

 

Wait a minute. Is this the same Abraham who abandoned his wife and child out in the desert to die of thirst? Is that the same Isaac who lied to Pharaoh allowing his wife to be married off to another man but then still snuck in to get some nookie anyway? Is that the same Jacob who used lies, deception and extortion to get what belonged to his brother?

 

Why are they in heaven?

Because Jesus loves them more.

[Antlerman]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

But he was speaking to the Christians of his day, the Pharisees.

Yeah. Just like "love thy neighbor." That was only for the Pharisees too.

You missed my angle. He was condemning the Christians of his day, meaning those who were the religious. The love your neighbor was directed at those who were not the religious right. It was to contrast them against the religious. Ironic humor fails when it has to be explained. The irony is modern Christians are everything that Jesus hated.

[Ouroboros]

You missed my angle. He was condemning the Christians of his day, meaning those who were the religious. The love your neighbor was directed at those who were not the religious right. It was to contrast them against the religious. Ironic humor fails when it has to be explained. The irony is modern Christians are everything that Jesus hated.

I get your point, but you have to explain to me how you got the Pharisee part from the context.

 

Here's the quote of that section:

 

22Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

He said to them, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

26“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

27“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

28“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

Is this "someone" assumed to be a Pharisee?

 

But I do get your point on how Jesus ranted and rebuked the Pharisees plenty, and Christians today are prime examples of the same target. It's a shame. I agree with that part.

[agnosticator]

And by the way your post title, "Jesus is so sweet and kind", I assume you cannot be talking about the same Jesus that said this?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14 v 26.

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

 

They just caught Jesus on a bad day, in a bad mood. He was off His meds.

[Ouroboros]

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

 

They just caught Jesus on a bad day, in a bad mood. He was off His meds.

I heard someone in a podcast pointing out that it's a form of sadism and schadenfreude when Christians celebrate the idea of non-Christians going to an eternal punishment. It shows how holy, righteous, and moral they really are, doesn't it? (Including Jesus)

[mymistake]

Right, or Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out."

 

They just caught Jesus on a bad day, in a bad mood. He was off His meds.

I heard someone in a podcast pointing out that it's a form of sadism and schadenfreude when Christians celebrate the idea of non-Christians going to an eternal punishment. It shows how holy, righteous, and moral they really are, doesn't it? (Including Jesus)

 

I can't count the number of times I've seen a Christian do that when they lost an online debate. I guess their ego got bruised when they couldn't defend their beliefs they way they thought they could. But the come back is "Oh yeah well you're going to burn in hell!" It's like they are in the mafia.

[agnosticator]

I heard someone in a podcast pointing out that it's a form of sadism and schadenfreude when Christians celebrate the idea of non-Christians going to an eternal punishment. It shows how holy, righteous, and moral they really are, doesn't it? (Including Jesus)

 

Hah! I like that word, "schadenfreude". That's an accurate description. I used to ignore the "mean, cruel Jesus" in favor of the "sweet and kind Jesus". Now, the biblical Jesus seems to me to be psychotic.

[agnosticator]

Well I have been on this board on and off, struggling with my faith, doctrine and everything in between. Lately I have really REALLY been reaching out to Him and crying out from the depths of my soul for direction, vision and purpose. But mostly I have been really asking for more of HIM.

 

You'd be much better off in the long run, if you continue to struggle. Life and good people will teach you through your experiences with both. If you look within yourself for that direction, vision, and purpose, you will move forward. Know thyself, and the rest will unfold. Otherwise, you'll just be another sheep.

 

I know a kind and sweet little girl who is full of love that is much purer than Jesus' professed love in the N.T. And she is real to boot! You need to find that kind of love in another human. Not a fantasy you have cherry-picked from the Bible.

[Paine]

Has it ever occurred to you that (since you believe in metaphysical beings) this thing you call "Jesus" could just as easily be aliens pretending to give you what you're so desperate to find?

No worries.

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

 

Not the fruitless mewlings of the Christian......the tinfoil hat cat......oh GOD, the tin foil!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

[Paine]

I truly believe that the louder you shout about your warm fuzzy faith, the less you can hear those mumbling doubts.

 

Thats why I think that meaningless bullshit "Praise Music" is so annoying...it is meant only to drown the silence where reason might begin to chirp.

 

Good luck with that.

[Paine]

I'll take a slightly different tack -

 

Good news. All those feelings of divine presence? All that nearness, all of it - it's all you. You're generating those feelings inside with your own thoughts, imagination and desire.

 

Why is that good news? Because it means you can dump the delusion and experience those feelings in reality. You don't have to conform to an ancient, irrelevant morality and worry about god looking over your shoulder and measuring up. You can just live.

 

And reclaim your Sundays for sport fuckin' and sleeping in.

[Akheia]

And in other news, God wakens himself from slumber just long enough to find someone's car keys and zap Victory with warm fuzzies, ignoring millions of starving children, weeping rape victims, wailing people being beaten and tortured, and sufferers of natural catastrophes everywhere.

 

But hey. Car keys, parking spots, raises, warm fuzzies. Those are what is important with God. I'm so impressed that God thought that was the best application possible of his divine might in that moment!

[Astreja]

Now I am starting to feel and sense His presence again. I feel so humbled, and I feel His love again. Not that He stopped loving me, but I just stopped believing that He loved me.

 

I think you imagined the whole thing, Victory. Your divine boy-toy disappears when you doubt yourself and magically resurfaces when you find it in yourself to re-imagine him.

He's real, and He is alive.

 

Nonsense. If ever there was a Jesus, whether he had been executed by the Romans or died at a ripe old age surrounded by his and Mary Magdalene's grandkids, he's almost certainly dead as a doornail now. I'm pretty sure that the life expectancy in first-century Palestine was somewhat less than 100 years, and certainly not 1900+ years.

 

As for that "rising from the dead" nonsense? Piffle.

I encourage you all to seek Him, because He will reveal Himself to you.

 

*WARNING* *WARNING* Angry Valkyrie Alert *WARNING* *WARNING*

 

(Spring G reaches for Her Clue-by-Four™)

 

*BAM BAM SMASH THUMP BEAT BEAT SMASH*

 

Victory, what part of EX-CHRISTIAN do you not understand?

• We do not believe in your invisible friend, so we would have to lie to ourselves and pretend to believe in order to do any seeking at all. Simply put, it's futile to look for something that doesn't interest us and that we don't even think is real.
  
• Collectively we've wasted hundreds, if not thousands of years of our lives in Christianity. Why should we waste a second more?
  
• And I, for one, consider Christianity to be immoral nonsense. A god that condemns all of humanity because two mythical humans sought after knowledge? Saves only the ones who agree to let Jesus die in their place, and tortures those who want to pay their own debts? Get real. That isn't something worth worshipping or loving; it's a fucking monster, and you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting we go back to such unconscionable pig crap.
  

I strongly suggest you think long and hard about why you came here, Victory. You don't seem to understand or respect that we had very good reasons for leaving Christianity, and you aren't offering us anything we haven't read a hundred times before.

[owen652]

he won't watch that video. no way. there's no way i would've watched it when i was a christian, because things like that are to be avoided at all costs in case they make you fall away/backslide/think too much. maybe i'm being boastful here but i now have no problem watching christian videos that friends or family send me; they have no effect and i don't worry about them having any effect because my belief system is not based anymore on sinking sand. "The rains came down and the floods came up and the house on the sand went 'BOOM!'"

[Antlerman]

he won't watch that video. no way. there's no way i would've watched it when i was a christian, because things like that are to be avoided at all costs in case they make you fall away/backslide/think too much. maybe i'm being boastful here but i now have no problem watching christian videos that friends or family send me; they have no effect and i don't worry about them having any effect because my belief system is not based anymore on sinking sand. "The rains came down and the floods came up and the house on the sand went 'BOOM!'"

I assume you're referring to the video I posted on page one of this thread (since it's the only video so far). I know what you are saying is true based on my experience also, but it's also true that it depends how strong that experience is inside someone, which is experienced distinctly as God by them, that moves them to see even momentarily outside their narrowly focused reality within their minds. If it is strong enough in themselves to not be satisfied with how others understand the world, be that those who dismiss all religious experience in favor of purely rationalistic world, or even those fellow religionists who say it's this or that version of God that is trying to talk to them that they must now follow lock, stock, and barrel as they do, they might be willing to listen to something that actually acknowledges what they experience as real, instead of dismissing it as 'warm fuzzies', or as 'the devil' from the religious side.

 

It is my belief that to acknowledge the validity of somebody's experiences, which I do in his case, is to in fact talk directly to that part of themselves which experiences it. The hope is that they trust what is in them enough to be willing to listen to it, and not suppress it through fear and bury it under a mound of religious dogma, or the opposite direction in other various forms of secular belief systems. Once those things we avoid that inner voice with start breaking down, when they become insufficient to distract us from it with some 'answer' to it, then we begin to learn and are willing to trust it enough in ourselves to be open to understanding it for ourselves and not through others. To what you say, the fear of listening to others is taught to them by those who are afraid themselves. They are not secure in it, and mistake structures of beliefs with an inner voice and truth.

 

All you can do is first acknowledge them and encourage them to learn how to listen to that and trust themselves. Without that, they never will really know that in themselves, that which he experiences as God. It's a long road from dogma to freedom, but it only comes by being true to what isn't satisfied by anything less.

[sdelsolray]

Well I have been on this board on and off, struggling with my faith, doctrine and everything in between. Lately I have really REALLY been reaching out to Him and crying out from the depths of my soul for direction, vision and purpose. But mostly I have been really asking for more of HIM. See I drifted away from Him, ended up doing things I wish I never did, and just became a total train wreck. Now I am starting to feel and sense His presence again. I feel so humbled, and I feel His love again. Not that He stopped loving me, but I just stopped believing that He loved me. He's real, and He is alive. I cannot believe how kind and sweet He really is. It's like the more I draw closer, the more I see His love. I encourage you all to seek Him, because He will reveal Himself to you. It does not matter what you did, or where you are coming from. I just wanted to share because I was struggling myself for a while. I found my way back home, and I hope you all do too.

 

Consider the possibility that your conversations with Jesus are simply conversations with yourself.

[Victory2011]

Margee,

 

I really want to address you because I saw your post in the Testimonies Section of the forum about "Desperate Prayers." I actually just saw it today, so sorry for my late response. You know I cannot post there, so here it goes.

 

First I wanted to say sorry if my post offended you in anyway or made you angry or anything. Those were not my intentions. I understand that this is a site for Ex-Christians, and this is a place for you all to meet and support one another. I see a lot of that here, and I actually think it is great. That is the reason I am not posting a lot here since I am in this transition back to Christ. Even though I consider myself a Christian, like I said before, I have struggled a lot with my faith. It has not been till recently that I am starting to sense His presence and love again. Before I was very very depressed. I had a relationship with the Lord many moons ago, but lost it, hence why the depression kicked in. I just wanted to let you know that is has been a long and painful journey for me. A journey full of doubt, fear, anger and feelings of betrayal. I thought for a while that God left me. I thought He abandoned me. I am having those warm fuzzy feelings again, something that I missed, but I agree that this should not be the basis of my faith. A religious experience or warm feelings should not be the center of my faith. I am still trying to establish my walk again and to basis it on the Word of God, not my feelings. So see Margee, there is a lot of work for me to still do. I am not there yet. I am trying to work out my salvation through trembling hands as they say.

 

It is strange because being here on this forum is strengthening my faith. I see where others are at, and I can see where they error, and I try to learn from other peoples mistakes and apply what I learn to my life. My biggest mistake was anger toward the Lord. I had so much anger because I "thought" and I "felt" that He left me. I thought that because I could not sense His presence. But now I see that my faith was weak. I could not sense Him like I used to do before, and so therefore I lost my faith and turned my back on Him. That does not sound like I had a lot of faith in Him to begin with. I am trying to start over again. To really trust Him when I do not understand, to depend on Him for everything. I have a lot of work ahead, and it is not going to be easy. I had problems with the WOF teachings for a while. They really took me on a loop because I realized that they were wrong. Then I was mad at God for allowing me to learn the wrong things. It was just a mess.

 

There is so much I want to share, but again I respect that this is not my territory so I am somewhat reluctant. One thing I will say though is that Jesus is sweet and kind. I've known that love from Him. I've felt that abundance of His love, His mercy, His grace. It made me weep like a baby when I started to feel His love again. I had all this anger inside me toward myself (depression) and toward God Himself. There was no way I was going to "feel" Him with all that junk flowing through me. So I repented, gave it to Him and surrendered it all. It took a while, but I do feel His presence again. Is that what I am going to basis my faith on this time? No. I want to base my faith on the truth. I have a long way to go.

 

One thing that is bothering me is God the Father. I sense Him to be a mean guy in the sky. I have to be honest here. It is hard for me. Does it have anything to do with my relationship with my earthly father? Possibly. I can see that. But for some reason I see Jesus as loving and kind, but the Father to me feels cold and distant. I know that is crazy since the Father and Son are ONE, but that is something else I am dealing with that I surrendered to Jesus. I know Jesus, but I do not know the Father well. Yes again, I know they are suppose to be ONE, but something makes me feel far away from the Father. I'm not sure what it is.

 

I really have loaded this post with several ramblings and scattered thoughts, so I will just leave it for now and look for your response. I just wanted to connect with you and let you know that just because I am feeling Jesus' presence again, does not mean that everything is okay now. I have issues, I have problems, and I still have many unanswered questions. Hope to hear from you soon.

[mcdaddy]

Margee,

 

I really want to address you because I saw your post in the Testimonies Section of the forum about "Desperate Prayers." I actually just saw it today, so sorry for my late response. You know I cannot post there, so here it goes.

 

First I wanted to say sorry if my post offended you in anyway or made you angry or anything. Those were not my intentions. I understand that this is a site for Ex-Christians, and this is a place for you all to meet and support one another. I see a lot of that here, and I actually think it is great. That is the reason I am not posting a lot here since I am in this transition back to Christ. Even though I consider myself a Christian, like I said before, I have struggled a lot with my faith. It has not been till recently that I am starting to sense His presence and love again. Before I was very very depressed. I had a relationship with the Lord many moons ago, but lost it, hence why the depression kicked in. I just wanted to let you know that is has been a long and painful journey for me. A journey full of doubt, fear, anger and feelings of betrayal. I thought for a while that God left me. I thought He abandoned me. I am having those warm fuzzy feelings again, something that I missed, but I agree that this should not be the basis of my faith. A religious experience or warm feelings should not be the center of my faith. I am still trying to establish my walk again and to basis it on the Word of God, not my feelings. So see Margee, there is a lot of work for me to still do. I am not there yet. I am trying to work out my salvation through trembling hands as they say.

 

It is strange because being here on this forum is strengthening my faith. I see where others are at, and I can see where they error, and I try to learn from other peoples mistakes and apply what I learn to my life. My biggest mistake was anger toward the Lord. I had so much anger because I "thought" and I "felt" that He left me. I thought that because I could not sense His presence. But now I see that my faith was weak. I could not sense Him like I used to do before, and so therefore I lost my faith and turned my back on Him. That does not sound like I had a lot of faith in Him to begin with. I am trying to start over again. To really trust Him when I do not understand, to depend on Him for everything. I have a lot of work ahead, and it is not going to be easy. I had problems with the WOF teachings for a while. They really took me on a loop because I realized that they were wrong. Then I was mad at God for allowing me to learn the wrong things. It was just a mess.

 

There is so much I want to share, but again I respect that this is not my territory so I am somewhat reluctant. One thing I will say though is that Jesus is sweet and kind. I've known that love from Him. I've felt that abundance of His love, His mercy, His grace. It made me weep like a baby when I started to feel His love again. I had all this anger inside me toward myself (depression) and toward God Himself. There was no way I was going to "feel" Him with all that junk flowing through me. So I repented, gave it to Him and surrendered it all. It took a while, but I do feel His presence again. Is that what I am going to basis my faith on this time? No. I want to base my faith on the truth. I have a long way to go.

 

One thing that is bothering me is God the Father. I sense Him to be a mean guy in the sky. I have to be honest here. It is hard for me. Does it have anything to do with my relationship with my earthly father? Possibly. I can see that. But for some reason I see Jesus as loving and kind, but the Father to me feels cold and distant. I know that is crazy since the Father and Son are ONE, but that is something else I am dealing with that I surrendered to Jesus. I know Jesus, but I do not know the Father well. Yes again, I know they are suppose to be ONE, but something makes me feel far away from the Father. I'm not sure what it is.

 

I really have loaded this post with several ramblings and scattered thoughts, so I will just leave it for now and look for your response. I just wanted to connect with you and let you know that just because I am feeling Jesus' presence again, does not mean that everything is okay now. I have issues, I have problems, and I still have many unanswered questions. Hope to hear from you soon.

 

Hope you don't mind me giving my 2 cents here. Look, if you're happy where you're at , and where you're going, great, I don't want to rob "joy" of anyone. BUT, if you're in this search for "THE TRUTH", as you mention above when you say, "i want to base my faith on the truth", then thats what you have to do. #1) it can be demonstrably proven that the bible is not some inerrant, perfect "Word of God"...any simple google search can prove that out in about 0.000034 seconds. or just ask people here. I know you've seen the reasons. Contradictions, logical fallacies, historical errors, flat out lies/made up stories, archaelogy has disproven much...i could go on and on. So, first you have to realize that the bible cannot be reliably counted on to relay any kind of "truth".

 

2) Your using your mental capacities well when you say The Father seems to be a big ol' meanie compared to the Son. But yet, theyre supposed to be the same being. Either God's a schizophrenic with Bipolar, or Yahweh/Jesus are NOT THE SAME GOD. which is exactly what Marcion and the gnostics thought. All we have in this life is our ability to reason. its the only thing that separates us from the animals. USE IT. please. good luck with all.

[blackpudd1n]

2) Your using your mental capacities well when you say The Father seems to be a big ol' meanie compared to the Son. But yet, theyre supposed to be the same being. Either God's a schizophrenic with Bipolar, or Yahweh/Jesus are NOT THE SAME GOD.

 

Hey, hey, hey! Easy there! Schizophrenics and people living with bipolarity are FAR nicer than god! Psychopath seems more appropriate

[Spectrox]

I completely agree McDaddy. He needs to listen to your words of wisdom instead of worshipping God the McFather.

 

Christianity is arguably a polytheistic religion with 2 or possibly 3 core Gods.

 

And Jesus is arguably worse than Yahweh because Yahweh doesn't froth at the mouth about Hellfire and damnation all the time. The New Testament is more psychologically brutal than the Old. Although, physically, Jesus does seem more ethical.

 

But all this hogwash about having a relationship with Jesus - what a pile of doo doo. It's a one-sided relationship. All take and no give. God might as well not be there really. Oh I forgot. He isn't.