Deva Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 A relationship with Jesus is just an exercise in psychological projection. It may give you temporary relief, but its all in your mind and as quickly as it appears, it can go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Oh good, somebody's got warm fuzzies. I guess I must have been mistaken about that whole "God not existing" thing after all. I'm going to start believing in talking snakes and donkeys, a boat that can hold every animal in the world, and zombies right now! Somebody please change my icon to that snazzy "True Believer" badge, stat! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just glancing back over the title of this thread made me think, "The answer to your question is RIGHT THERE in the title..."jesus is so sweet and kind"...could you ever say that OT biblegod is "sweet and kind"? Is ordering mass genocide, up to and including babies and the elderly, "sweet and kind"? or forgiving? or merciful? Why did he order the slaughter of all those people? because they were unbelievers? well, technically, he hadn't even "presented" himself to them yet. they didnt even know of Yahweh. He didnt say, "go and minister to these foreigners, preach my love and power to them, and then if they dont accept me, smite them". NO, he just ordered a flat out genocide and didnt even extend an arm to them in peace. They were blameless, since they didnt have the law and werent proselytized to. how is that, in any way fair? not to mention, theres zero, ZERO, archeaological evidence that anything remotely close to this even happened. just think about that for a minute. Please someone correct me if Im wrong about any of that. I dont remember any attempted conversion of any of the "-ites". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory2011 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well like I said before, I am trying to work through things myself, so I will not try to pretend that I have all the answers. I have been introduced to the Apostolic faith recently, that of course teaches that there are not three separate entities in the God Head, but rather that they are one. I am just starting to research it and figure it out if this is true. The Apostolic faith of course comes from the Apostles of the Bible and they claim to have some answers. They say that the further you get from the Apostles and what they teach, the more you move away from the TRUTH. I am still looking into this and am asking Jesus to help me work through all this. That might help me understand the Father more, since I have a hard time with Him and some of the things He did. It is not that I disagree, it is just that I do not understand. I am not going to jump to conclusions yet, just look at this from different angles. Margee, did you ask "God" to show Himself to you, or did you ask "Jesus" to show Himself to you. I am just curious, mostly for my own reasons and to see if there is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I have been introduced to the Apostolic faith recently, that of course teaches that there are not three separate entities in the God Head, but rather that they are one. I am just starting to research it and figure it out if this is true. Oh geee that's new, never heard that one before! (extreme sarcasm). The Apostolic faith of course comes from the Apostles of the Bible and they claim to have some answers. They say that the further you get from the Apostles and what they teach, the more you move away from the TRUTH. You can ask Jesus until the cows come home. What you get will be the answer of your own mind. The fact (I don't care for this word TRUTH) is that the farther away from the Apostles you get, the more you move towards the "TRUTH"! That might help me understand the Father more, since I have a hard time with Him and some of the things He did. It is not that I disagree, it is just that I do not understand. I am not going to jump to conclusions yet, just look at this from different angles. When you get honest with yourself, then you will be able to go beyond "I don't understand" and say "Its really all bullshit,". However, if you are really trying to look at it from different angles, I give you some brownie points for that. Your presence on this site is starting to irk me. Your posts contain this simpering, whimpering "oh I might be wrong, but.." I say get real with your doubts and present them as such. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrox Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well like I said before, I am trying to work through things myself, so I will not try to pretend that I have all the answers. I have been introduced to the Apostolic faith recently, that of course teaches that there are not three separate entities in the God Head, but rather that they are one. I am just starting to research it and figure it out if this is true. The Apostolic faith of course comes from the Apostles of the Bible and they claim to have some answers. They say that the further you get from the Apostles and what they teach, the more you move away from the TRUTH. I am still looking into this and am asking Jesus to help me work through all this. That might help me understand the Father more, since I have a hard time with Him and some of the things He did. It is not that I disagree, it is just that I do not understand. I am not going to jump to conclusions yet, just look at this from different angles. Margee, did you ask "God" to show Himself to you, or did you ask "Jesus" to show Himself to you. I am just curious, mostly for my own reasons and to see if there is a difference. You are clearly struggling with your own conscience. That's healthy. And don't be fobbed off by apologetics pat answers about God being "unknowable" or "moves in mysterious ways." If you disagree with something in the Bible either morally or rationally, demand an answer for it - a clear, indisputable communication from God. If God exists and cares enough, he will answer your concern clearly and honestly. If there is no good answer, then the conclusion I would draw (and have already drawn) is that I am simply talking to myself. You see, the Christian claim is that the creator of the universe has a very important message for mankind. It's called the Bible. However, why would a supreme being choose an old book to communicate this vital message to us? Copies of copies of transaltions of copies, with no originals, containing outlandish stories, contradictions, inconsistencies and dodgy, out-of-date morals. Why would God be so vain as to demand worship from us and throw a hissy fit if we can't accept his far-fetched claims? Why would God sacrifice himself to himself to act as a loophole for rules he made up in the OT? Why would he reveal this ultimate message to Bronze Age and Iron Age people in the Middle East who were backward by all accounts and not as advanced as China at the time (the Chinese were already reading and writing)? Why would God be deliberately obscure and hidden? What game is he playing? What evidence is there that this thing called God really exists at all? This is a joke plan of salvation and an insult to my intelligence. I am convinced by evidence and reasoned argument. It's been shown time and time again to work. It's the best method we have of knowing what the truth is. Any semi-intelligent deity would know this. So why would God demand faith without good reason to know the most important truth i.e. the meaning of our existence? The Bible is not a pathway to truth. It's the highway to insanity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The Apostolic faith of course comes from the Apostles of the Bible and they claim to have some answers. They say that the further you get from the Apostles and what they teach, the more you move away from the TRUTH. For 2,000 years there's been debates of what the Apostolic "truths" really were. I doubt it would be answered by just hoping there is an answer. We do have a couple of Bible scholars on this website (I'm not one of them ), so perhaps they can give you the apostolic truths according to modern scholarship? Margee, did you ask "God" to show Himself to you, or did you ask "Jesus" to show Himself to you. I am just curious, mostly for my own reasons and to see if there is a difference. I know you're asking Margee this... but what difference would there be? God won't answer, but Jesus would? Is it a certain magical phrasing that gives answer, but the wrong incantation or spell won't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 somehow, V's god seems to give him warm fuzzies feelings,,,,, he thought god loved him he thought god left him he thought he left god he thought god did not leave him what will he think of next,,,,, god is just for feeling good,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory2011 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 somehow, V's god seems to give him warm fuzzies feelings,,,,, he thought god loved him he thought god left him he thought he left god he thought god did not leave him what will he think of next,,,,, god is just for feeling good,,,,, Well yeah, this is because I have a real relationship with Jesus Christ. It is something that is real to me and the relationship changes and grows like every other relationship we may have in our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 well, that is a very meaning relationship whereby only one person does the thinking and maintaining the relationship. If you want him to love you, just feel the warm wuzzies, if you want him to leave you, just by turning off the switch....... it is a unilateral relationship,,,,hallelujah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It is strange because being here on this forum is strengthening my faith. I see where others are at, and I can see where they error, and I try to learn from other peoples mistakes and apply what I learn to my life. My biggest mistake was anger toward the Lord. I had so much anger because I "thought" and I "felt" that He left me. I thought that because I could not sense His presence. But now I see that my faith was weak. I could not sense Him like I used to do before, and so therefore I lost my faith and turned my back on Him. That does not sound like I had a lot of faith in Him to begin with. I am trying to start over again. To really trust Him when I do not understand, to depend on Him for everything. I have a lot of work ahead, and it is not going to be easy. I had problems with the WOF teachings for a while. They really took me on a loop because I realized that they were wrong. Then I was mad at God for allowing me to learn the wrong things. It was just a mess. In my case, if there is anger it's directed at Christianty and the lie it is and the trap it is holding much of mankind in grip, making them feel guilty and ashamed for things they shouldn't have and then run to this made-up deity for forgiveness for "sins" they would not have felt guilty about in the first place if not for some sick Judeo-Christian doctrine. The whole system is about control and yeah I am angry when I see people like you be trapped in that. And sometimes I'm angry at myself and how could I have been such an ignorant fool to have ever believed this very obvious lie. That's all the anger I have. The anger of being lied to. And I have to admit I'm sometimes getting angry when I see ignorance and stupidity. And you can see a lot of that within Christianity. For most people deconversion doesn't have anything to do with anger about not having some fuzzy feeling about God. If that was your only issue with Christianity maybe that's why your deconversion failed and you relapsed. I myself was terribly unhappy with the concept that the whole Christian religion is built upon, namely that you are not allowed to use your own brain and when your brain and own morals say something is wrong with the Bible and Christianity you are required to repress those thoughts. When you say you have a fuzzy warm feeling and therefore it must be true, even though you admit the Father portrayed in the Bible seems to be evil and then you repress these thoughts by saying things like we cannot know God's ways or that we will have the answers in heaven or we must just blindly trust "God" even if it doesn't make sense or whatever, that to me represents everything that I hated about Christianity. That is exactly what I talk about when I say in Christianity you are not allowed to trust thoughts, logic, rationality, morals (even if they are better than the morals in the Bible!), if they contradict what is written in this primitive Bronze Age book those origins are at best dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well yeah, this is because I have a real relationship with Jesus Christ. It is something that is real to me and the relationship changes and grows like every other relationship we may have in our lives. You know, children also believe that they have "real" relationships with their imaginary friends. And for a time, this is healthy for children because many are emotionally insecure. It is conforting to them to have a friend who ALWAYS understands them and ALWAYS has their best interest in mind. However, it is a problem if they fail to outgrow those fantasies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well I have been on this board on and off, struggling with my faith, doctrine and everything in between. Lately I have really REALLY been reaching out to Him and crying out from the depths of my soul for direction, vision and purpose. But mostly I have been really asking for more of HIM. See I drifted away from Him, ended up doing things I wish I never did, and just became a total train wreck. Now I am starting to feel and sense His presence again. I feel so humbled, and I feel His love again. Not that He stopped loving me, but I just stopped believing that He loved me. He's real, and He is alive. I cannot believe how kind and sweet He really is. It's like the more I draw closer, the more I see His love. I encourage you all to seek Him, because He will reveal Himself to you. It does not matter what you did, or where you are coming from. I just wanted to share because I was struggling myself for a while. I found my way back home, and I hope you all do too. I would like to point out that my own deconversion was one of the most positive events in my life. I am far happier now that I know god is imaginary. I am far more satisfied learning how the world really works that I every was as a "believer". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It is strange because being here on this forum is strengthening my faith. I see where others are at, and I can see where they error, and I try to learn from other peoples mistakes and apply what I learn to my life. My biggest mistake was anger toward the Lord. I had so much anger because I "thought" and I "felt" that He left me. I thought that because I could not sense His presence. But now I see that my faith was weak. I could not sense Him like I used to do before, and so therefore I lost my faith and turned my back on Him. That does not sound like I had a lot of faith in Him to begin with. I am trying to start over again. To really trust Him when I do not understand, to depend on Him for everything. I have a lot of work ahead, and it is not going to be easy. I had problems with the WOF teachings for a while. They really took me on a loop because I realized that they were wrong. Then I was mad at God for allowing me to learn the wrong things. It was just a mess. In my case, if there is anger it's directed at Christianty and the lie it is and the trap it is holding much of mankind in grip, making them feel guilty and ashamed for things they shouldn't have and then run to this made-up deity for forgiveness for "sins" they would not have felt guilty about in the first place if not for some sick Judeo-Christian doctrine. The whole system is about control and yeah I am angry when I see people like you be trapped in that. And sometimes I'm angry at myself and how could I have been such an ignorant fool to have ever believed this very obvious lie. That's all the anger I have. The anger of being lied to. And I have to admit I'm sometimes getting angry when I see ignorance and stupidity. And you can see a lot of that within Christianity. For most people deconversion doesn't have anything to do with anger about not having some fuzzy feeling about God. If that was your only issue with Christianity maybe that's why your deconversion failed and you relapsed. I myself was terribly unhappy with the concept that the whole Christian religion is built upon, namely that you are not allowed to use your own brain and when your brain and own morals say something is wrong with the Bible and Christianity you are required to repress those thoughts. When you say you have a fuzzy warm feeling and therefore it must be true, even though you admit the Father portrayed in the Bible seems to be evil and then you repress these thoughts by saying things like we cannot know God's ways or that we will have the answers in heaven or we must just blindly trust "God" even if it doesn't make sense or whatever, that to me represents everything that I hated about Christianity. That is exactly what I talk about when I say in Christianity you are not allowed to trust thoughts, logic, rationality, morals (even if they are better than the morals in the Bible!), if they contradict what is written in this primitive Bronze Age book those origins are at best dubious. Abused wife/Stockholm syndrome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 One thing that is bothering me is God the Father. I sense Him to be a mean guy in the sky. I have to be honest here. It is hard for me. Can't say I blame you on that feeling. God in the Bible isn't projected as being a very loving, tolerant, or sensible entity. Do you think that's where your sense is coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well yeah, this is because I have a real relationship with Jesus Christ. It is something that is real to me and the relationship changes and grows like every other relationship we may have in our lives. A real relationship? Oh, ok. I wasn't aware that good real relationships involved never hearing from the other person and having to do 100% of the work involved in maintaining it. You sound like one of those stalkers who get obsessed with movie stars and make up relationships in their heads with them. You're no more in a "real relationship" with God than a stalker is with Angelina Jolie; at least her PR people would send you headshots sometimes in response to the long ranty mails you'd send. It makes me sad that you've bought into this delusion that you're talking to someone else when you pray; I used to try so hard to "reach" Jesus as so many people around me said they could, but now I realize that it was just me talking to myself. And if God had actually talked to me, he'd damn well have some answering to do with regard to why he was wasting time with me when there were kids starving in Africa he should be helping. I'd say "Hey, so be it, as long as the delusion's making you happy," but it's a bit irritating that you don't think your magical thinking through a bit more than this. It's rather egocentric of you to imagine that God actually cares about you enough to put off helping millions in need just to make you feel cuddled. It seems like a delusion that would inevitably bleed into other areas of life, as indeed it did with mine. So, uh, why should God actually care if you feel his presence when others have lost their entire faiths and salvation over his silence and when others still are crying out to him for their very lives but hear nothing but silence? I reject a god who would ever act like that. There is no explanation suitable for that sort of behavior. PS: It's curious you'd mention "apostolic truth." We don't know much at all about what the original first-gen Christians really thought or did, much less who "Jesus" was or what he really taught. The "Apostles" are unverified in historical records, and likely didn't even write anything down--what we have of "theirs" is largely ghostwritten decades if not centuries after they, and Jesus, had died. It's easier to reconstruct the original Druidic religion than it is to figure out, through the smokescreen of 2000 years of politics and agendas, much of anything about original Christianity. So good luck with that. I know a lot of fundie churches like to say they're following the original teachings, but you'll learn, as I did, that it's easier said than done. Anybody who says he's in a church doing "original Christianity" is suspect in my eyes as someone who hasn't really learned a thing about his own faith's history. Too bad Christianity makes so many historical claims to fact, hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well like I said before, I am trying to work through things myself, so I will not try to pretend that I have all the answers. You wouldn't believe how many Christians that come here that won't admit they don't have an answer. You are also courteous in the sense that you don't say something potentially offensive and then say "Well it's what the Word says, so it's the TRUTH. So tough." Both of these are excellent traits and I want to encourage you to hold on to them. Try your best not to lose them in your quest to learn the truth. In many ways, you are a rare bird here. I hope you continue to lurk and post any questions you may have so that you can learn our side of the story better. I feel you are more receptive than some of the Christians that post on this site. I hope you find what you are looking for, but I hope you don't lose yourself in it. Now back to your regularly scheduled criticism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well yeah, this is because I have a real relationship with Jesus Christ. It is something that is real to me and the relationship changes and grows like every other relationship we may have in our lives. So what beer does Jesus like? What's his favorite food? Is he left handed or right handed? Does he have a beard nowadays or does he keep it shaved (perhaps a night shade)? Those things you would know for a fact if you actually are spending time with him for realz. Do you have him over for pizza and movie night, for instance? We got new neighbors since December. We spend time with them. Drink beer, watch movies, smoke cigars, talk politics, and so on. I know more about actual history and facts, and met their family and friends, in a few months, than I ever learned about Jesus. If you really have a physical relationship with Jesus, then I envy you. I wanted one when I was Christian and asked Jesus for it, but I never got any answer or response. So... lucky you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Jesus prefers Rolling Rock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Are you sure he's not a PBR guy? Seems like a hipster to me. Long hair, counter-culture, really upset about the hierarchy in Jerusalem, preaching that people should dump their families and sell all their stuff, I mean what else could be more hipster than him? He has such a deeper understanding of Yahweh than anybody, don't ya know... Judaism is soooo mainstream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Valid points all around. I do know he wont eat pizza if it has ham on it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 20, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted March 20, 2012 I have a real relationship with Jesus Christ Did you know the word 'gullible' has been removed from the dictionary? Why do you think they removed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I have a real relationship with Jesus Christ Did you know the word 'gullible' has been removed from the dictionary? Why do you think they removed it? Jesus was on the board of directors for the publishing company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well I have been on this board on and off, struggling with my faith, doctrine and everything in between. Lately I have really REALLY been reaching out to Him and crying out from the depths of my soul for direction, vision and purpose. But mostly I have been really asking for more of HIM. See I drifted away from Him, ended up doing things I wish I never did, and just became a total train wreck. Now I am starting to feel and sense His presence again. I feel so humbled, and I feel His love again. Not that He stopped loving me, but I just stopped believing that He loved me. He's real, and He is alive. I cannot believe how kind and sweet He really is. It's like the more I draw closer, the more I see His love. I encourage you all to seek Him, because He will reveal Himself to you. It does not matter what you did, or where you are coming from. I just wanted to share because I was struggling myself for a while. I found my way back home, and I hope you all do too. *barf* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I ran out of my stash a while back and felt abandoned and anxious without my Jesus Marijuana Christ. But then I 'found' him again. I scared up a baggy and fired up a Holy Bowl! He blew my mind and gave me the munchies! I loves my Jesus Marijuana Christ. He makes me feel so damn good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts