No God = No Hope

[Akheia]

A control belief is just a premise that you take for granted so much that it's hard even to realize it's there. For example, when we were Christians, we just operated under the assumption that the Bible was real and that what happened in it was all evidence of a good and loving God. If we saw verses about genocide and slavery and stuff, we glossed over it because it didn't fit in. In much the same way, someone can just live under assumptions like "porn is always a threat to my relationship" or "medications are only for weak people." And they build their entire worldview around these beliefs, whether they're accurate or not. Some of these I think are good--"hurting someone gratuitously is bad" or "parents should nurture their young children." But others can be harmful. I wonder if maybe you've got some of those circulating around in your mind that aren't worthwhile.

 

Any medication has side effects--I'm practically a case study for those, since I get bad ones on almost every medication I try, even ones that are one-in-a-million that way. The trick is figuring out if they're needed so much that the side effects are worth the risk. For some stuff, like hypertension that diet can't control, I'd say those meds are worth moderate risk. I agree that people probably take too many medications, but to an extent about all you can do is find a sympathetic doctor who knows your preferences.

[Denyoz]

... there's different ways to view a situation.

 

I felt imprisoned by my job, so I quit, but then i felt imprisoned by lack of money. So now I'm working again, and although I feel trapped in some ways, I can take the view point that the job also gives me freedom.

 

Yes, wow, this is how I usually deal with frustrations in my life. I change my point of view until I stop feeling frustrated. It's amazing what the mind can do. But sometimes it's the situation that needs to be changed. The key is to know where to focus your attention and energy, inside or outside, or both. Thanks again Chik!

[Denyoz]

I have an advantage with the "explore all possibilities" because I am single. I am quite sure things would be different if I were not. I think it takes even more strength and courage to really do the exploration if you are with someone who does not share that same view.

 

I'm lucky, my wife and I don't try to control each other or interfere with each others interests. Common interests we do together, individual interests we do separately. Like if I wanted to "drive across the entire province of Quebec to meet with some of my friends here on ex-c" she would not mind, as long as I don't commit adultary. The challenge is finding free time to explore. With kids in the house, I always get interrupted whenever I try to do something for myself. Fortunately I do have quiet times when kids are at school and wife is at work. I should make a list of things I would like to explore, this should be interesting...

[Denyoz]

I used to work in statistics, so I have compiled some regarding the comments I have received so far on this thread. (No God = No Hope)

 

25 people have responded: 13 men and 12 women.

 

8 people (32%) encouraged me to take medication. Among those, 75% were women, 25% men.

 

17 people (68%) were silent regarding taking medication, or did not push it. Among those, 65% were men, 35% women

 

I have listed all the suggestions I have received on how to cope with depression. With each suggestion I wrote the number of people that have suggested it:

 

nature, animals, sunshine (10)

friends, family, relationships (8)

take medication (8)

do something fun (7)

forget hope and any other negative thoughts (7)

see a doctor (7)

art, music, beauty, humor (5)

keep an open mind, get curious, explore all possibilities, try new things (5)

philosophy, reading (5)

watch videos, play video games (5)

exercise (5)

see a therapist (4)

take vitamins & supplements (3)

relax and concentrate on breathing (3)

travel (3)

go hiking (2)

fantazise (2)

change circumstances in your life (2)

help others, be productive (2)

persevere, keep busy (2)

eat, drink & sleep well (1)

science & technology (1)

buy a motorcycle (1)

go to amusement park (1)

be yourself (1)

visit Ex-Christian.net (1)

go shopping (1)

[London]

nature, animals, sunshine (10)

 

 

So according to this set of numbers, becoming a National Park Ranger would be the best thing for your current situation.

 

I'm not sure running into Smokey the Bear was what you had in mind.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Denyoz, I know you'll know how I mean this: try working from the bottom of the list. Get on a Harley, go shopping, and post updates from the trying-on room!

 

Chill, bro!

[blackpudd1n]

You know, Denyoz, maybe my dad's story would be of some help to you here. We talk a lot about mental health; I was the first person he'd ever really known who was severely mentally ill when he met me, just over three years ago (he's told me that he's very glad that I did enter when I did, because as I started to really manage my illness, another girl in the family was diagnosed with bipolar, and his grandson started having severe psychological problems as a result of abuse by his mother, so they had a lot more understanding when these two things did occur, and have been able to respond in a really positive manner).

 

At the time, my dad had been taking anti-depressants for a few years. He says that the problems started when he was 12, just after his family moved out to Australia from England. He was never able to adjust to the different schooling system, nor the culture shock of the move.

 

For years, he struggled with what he calls "the grey mist". It would come on him without warning, and he suffered badly, and silently. It was very difficult, as men were not meant to be weak, or to talk about their struggles. He thought he should "man up" and get over it.

 

After he and mum had been fostering for quite some time, things came to a head. As a stay-at-home dad, with mum working, he felt that he had no other social outlet but other foster carers, and all they'd talk about was kids. Even though my dad only went to Year 9 at school, he has a great curiosity about the world, and really enjoys conversation on many different subjects.

 

Eventually, his depression got to the point where he wasn't coping. He was horrified at the feelings that the foster kids would engender in him when they were playing up, as he has never been a violent person. One time, he feared his own reaction so much when a foster kid was trashing the house, that he had to leave.

 

Finally, he went and saw his doctor, and told him how he was feeling. The doctor put him on anti-depressants, and he really struggled with the idea of taking them. He also joined a motorcyle club for older riders (junior membership starts at 40), and for the first time in twenty years, got himself a motorbike. He was surprised by how many of his friends in the club, male and female alike, were also dealing with depression, and started to realise that it was a more common problem than he thought it was in society. Dad is now the president of the club, and is very open in talking about not only his depression, but also my struggles with mental illness. When he started talking about my struggles, he was surprised by how many others in the club also were dealing with bipolar or had family members with bipolar. The club has become a safe place for its members to talk about their struggles and that of their family members with mental illness, and that definitely fills me with joy, to see people realise that they aren't alone, and that other people understand.

 

Now, my dad continues to take his anti-depressants. His attitude towards them is, 'maybe they work, maybe they don't, but I feel a whole lot better when I do take them than when I don't'. Of course, he still has his bad days, when he needs to go for a ride, or go to bed and shut the door on the world. But those bad days are not as severe or prolonged as they used to be, and the space between them is further. Dad has come to realise that his depression is there to stay, but that there is no shame in it, nor in taking medication for it. And his attitude and openness about it has helped many others in the process.

 

I just thought it might be helpful for you to have another bloke's story about his struggle with depression, and with coming to terms with taking medication. Medication is never the whole answer to anything, but it can certainly help greatly. Even having bipolar, medication is not the whole answer- it is only one part of it, and, for me, a very important part of it.

[Positivist]

I used to work in statistics, so I have compiled some regarding the comments I have received so far on this thread.

Now that was interesting. I think we need to do a factor analysis and structural equation modeling now.

[Positivist]

A simple correlation study would do, too.

[Denyoz]

You know, Denyoz, maybe my dad's story would be of some help to you here.

 

Wow, blackpudd, thanks for sharing this very inspirational story. I admire you and your dad. You (and ficino) make me want to by a Harley.

 

Here's an update:

 

Since I usually do the opposite of what people tell me to do, after I finished compiling the statistics, I went to spend the rest of the day at the local casino and now I'm sitting at my desk drinking beer.

 

I had a long talk with my wife one hour ago and we concluded that it was best for me to start taking my medication again. She noticed I was down all week and she said she hates to see me like this, and is convinced that the meds are good for me. I agree. So I'll be back on them starting tomorrow. I take Bupropion, the maximum dose which is 450 mg/day. It's not your typical antidepressant but it's the only one that works for me. So if you notice me starting acting like a numb little robot that conforms to society, blame the 32% (just kidding)

 

Thanks everyone for helping me through this.

 

But I'm not finished, I still want to make progress. I'm not comfortable with having no spirituality, no vision and no hope in life. I spend most of my free time immersing myself into virtual worlds, mainly video games, to keep myself from going bonkers, and it's nice. But I feel it's an escape from dealing with reality. I feel that I should be doing something more to change society instead of copping out of it. But between burning down churches and playing video games, maybe it's best to play video games, hoping that the institutions (religious, political, financial) will crumble by themselves. I wish I could work at building a new economy or a new political system, but how on earth do you do that? It's obvious to me that the last thing these two beasts want to do is change. Any comments on this?

[London]

Two suggestions.

1) Watch the BBC series Planet Earth. It will really make you see how we meeger humans factor into life. Makes you feel like a part of the living planet. Just awe inspiring. Also there is a movie called Home that you can watch free on youtube in the free documentaries section. It has a good end. It's a little depressing about 3/4 of the way through, so be warned.

 

2) I'm getting the impression that you need to be a part of a greater experience to feel like life matters. And I also get the impression that you want to help "build" as you put it. I have found that when I feel like that I get out my artistic skills and put them to use. Either by doing something artistic (crafts, photography, etc) or by actually building something like furniture, or remodeling a room. Something that increases the quality of life, either for myself or someone who needs it.

 

Just a thought, and thank you for your kind words.

[Chikirin]

You know, Denyoz, maybe my dad's story would be of some help to you here.

 

 

 

But I'm not finished, I still want to make progress. I'm not comfortable with having no spirituality, no vision and no hope in life. I spend most of my free time immersing myself into virtual worlds, mainly video games, to keep myself from going bonkers, and it's nice. But I feel it's an escape from dealing with reality. I feel that I should be doing something more to change society instead of copping out of it. But between burning down churches and playing video games, maybe it's best to play video games, hoping that the institutions (religious, political, financial) will crumble by themselves. I wish I could work at building a new economy or a new political system, but how on earth do you do that? It's obvious to me that the last thing these two beasts want to do is change. Any comments on this?

 

Have you ever designed a video game? It might be fun and therapeutic to create a deconversion video game, perhaps where you have to zap televangelists.

[BrookeGF]

I am experiencing something similar. I actually stopped taking my meds before my deconversion began. The problem I'm having is that without God there is no one who loves me, no one who understands, no one watching over me and protecting me. There's no one coming to rapture us out or no eternal heaven. I don't mean to thread jack...just letting you know that it's probably common to feel this way. And I can't even pray to God for this depression to go away.

 

There really is no hope without God. We live, and then we die. My advice is to go back on your meds. It's all chemical and I will probably do the same when I go to see me doc. I think that once you do you'll find that there is joy in life without a god. Now I just need to take my own advice...

 

Just read above that you don't want to start taking your meds again. I think that's a good choice too. Dealing with depression head on could be beneficial.

[Akheia]

Brooke, I hope you come out of this depression soon. You and Denyoz both sound so sweet that it's heartbreaking to hear of your struggles.

 

I'm not saying do or don't take meds. I'm saying that a doctor has gone to school for a million years to learn all about the human body and how it interacts with treatments, so it's worth taking his advice seriously. An hour of research on WebMD can't duplicate a doctor's expertise. If the doctor I've had for five years tells me that he thinks the potential for me having an allergic reaction to the mild hypertension drug he just prescribed is far outweighed by the need for my blood pressure to come down, then I'll be still be scared--can't help that, I get every side effect ever it seems--but I'm still going to take it.

 

If you're on anti-depressants, then yes, there'll be side effects. But it's a good idea to talk to the doctor about not wanting to take them before you just hurl yourself off them. Some of them have extremely bad effects when quit without supervision--I have personal experience with this, having witnessed someone I love try to carve his own intestines out with my good 8" chef's knife because he was convinced, a week into his cold turkey psychosis and a week without a wink of sleep, that aliens were coming to get him. Don't puss out with something like meds.

[Denyoz]

there is a movie called Home that you can watch free on youtube in the free documentaries section. It has a good end. It's a little depressing about 3/4 of the way through, so be warned.

 

Thanks London. I watched Home this afternoon. Yes, good documentary, well made, depressing as man "evolves" but it ends with hope. I like that, my perception has changed a bit, and now I see that there is a good possibility that my kids and I might survive what's coming.

 

There is also hope in the sense that something could happen that nobody expects. Like time travelling.

[London]

Time travelling??? Do I need to alert Batman???

[Akheia]

Only if you give him my phone number.

[Denyoz]

There really is no hope without God. We live, and then we die. My advice is to go back on your meds. It's all chemical and I will probably do the same when I go to see me doc. I think that once you do you'll find that there is joy in life without a god. Now I just need to take my own advice...

 

Dear Brooke, thank you for your reply. I have also read your Bible Deprogramming post on the Ex-Christian Life Forum. I know how you feel.

 

I have received tons of good advice here on the question of "hope", including going back on meds, which I did. I feel better already. Thanks for the advice.

 

Take care.

[Denyoz]

Have you ever designed a video game? It might be fun and therapeutic to create a deconversion video game, perhaps where you have to zap televangelists.

Time travelling??? Do I need to alert Batman???

Only if you give him my phone number.

 

You guys are funny

 

Chikirin, you're idea is something I'm seriously thinking about right now, in fact I downloaded a software a few months ago that can be used to create video games. It's hard work though. I'm not sure I want to work that hard. Two of my kids are studying full-time in this field, maybe after they're finished they can help me create a shooting game with televangelists or something entitled "Kill Yahweh Before He Destroys Sodom & Gomorrah!"

[London]

Two of my kids are studying full-time in this field, maybe after they're finished they can help me create a shooting game with televangelists or something entitled "Kill Yahweh Before He Destroys Sodom & Gomorrah!"

 

You need to design special glasses that you can earn. They must be worn in order to prevent the person from turning to salt.

 

Deny, if you actually did make a game like this, the vatican would hear about and ban it. And once it's banned you would be a millionaire. Anything that gets banned earns money in buckets.

[London]

Only if you give him my phone number.

 

I usually share with others, but Batman is MINE!! I have cookies if you want some though.

[Akheia]

I'll fight you for him. But before we get into the pit, let's have the cookies!

[Denyoz]

Two of my kids are studying full-time in this field, maybe after they're finished they can help me create a shooting game with televangelists or something entitled "Kill Yahweh Before He Destroys Sodom & Gomorrah!"

 

You need to design special glasses that you can earn. They must be worn in order to prevent the person from turning to salt.

 

Deny, if you actually did make a game like this, the vatican would hear about and ban it. And once it's banned you would be a millionaire. Anything that gets banned earns money in buckets.

 

What... A... GREAT Idea!

 

By the way London, howcome your signature has an expiry date? OH! That's the end of the world date! I get it, lol

[Margee]

Denyoz, I am coming to this thread late..... as you know I have been on vacation. I sure hope you are feeling a little better today. The replies on this thread are amazing - I will be putting this one in my 'favorites' for sure. The friends here are unbelievable when we are in a crisis ! That's why I stay put on EX-c....my little escape world into reality and logic. The suggestions here on this thread are stable, intelligent, and wonderful. If you don't mind - I'd like to add my 2 cents.

 

One of the biggest things that I had to face when I lost faith in god was to really accept and practice this word called, 'acceptance'. Now, I had to accept that I didn't believe in a rescuing god anymore and face the fact that there is a high possibility that there may be no afterlife. I had to accept the fact that I may be on my own. This was VERY hard for me and I did a lot of grieving.

 

I had to find a way to start over again in life, so I made my mind into a new, white blank page. I had a lot of new information from deep studying on religions, evolution, life, and the reality of it.

 

So I actually pretended (this was within the last year) that someone came to me at a very young age of 6 and wanted to tell me the true truth (for me) about the world and gave me a chance to start all over again. Yes, I made the 'talk' up. It's what I needed to do, to help me survive the fact that there was no magical god out there who was going to rescue me.

 

Here is what my invisable 'mentor' (who actually was myself!) told me as I went back into my mind and became a young girl again, in my imagination ........This was her talk.....

 

Margee, you have come to a place called earth. Your birth was because your mother and father got together and produced you. It's called procreation to keep humans evolving. There is no other reason you are here. It is up to you to try to survive in this somewhat wonderful and not so wonderful place.

Every choice will have a consequence, so be very careful of how you choose. You will need to struggle many times through your journey. You will make lots of mistakes, but I want you to learn from them and not be ashamed. Life will be a lot of work. It's not the easiest place to live. I want you to get the most out of it.

 

Make sure you work hard and always leave yourself some time for pleasure. The money system on earth is about trading your time for cash. You must live below your income or you will get into great danger of becoming depressed with an abundance of debt. Always buy and trade only what you can afford. This will keep you from becoming downtrodden. Do not try to impress people to make yourself feel good. Do not try to keep up with the 'Jones's' on earth.

 

There is no need to do that for your self esteem. If you do not need to impress anyone, you will have high self esteem. You can just be who you are with certain talents. You will not have the same talents as everyone has their own. Do not be ashamed if someone seems to have a bigger or better talent than you.. Do what you can do best. Of course... you can always learn new things and I encourage you to do this. Being creative will help you in times of boredom. Life can be very repetious, so be careful to do something new everyday.

 

Be loving and kind to a good few friends. You do not need to be the popular one who is overwhelmed with too many people. Do not overcomplicate your life or you will enter into burnout. Keep your life as simple as possible and you will be able to give yourself the gift of time to do pleasurable things. If you can find pleasurable work, this will be a bonus..... if you can only find the type of work to make money and it doesn't bring you much pleasure... still do it with a good attitude..... because when your work is done and your bills are paid, you can experience contentedness and then enjoy some pleasure time.

 

The game of life is about survival of the luckiest, fittest and smartest. This is what you need to work out Margee dear. There is much disease, accidents, weather conditions and such that you must face. There is hatred among the human race and you must steer clear of it, if you can. It is better to be at peace than arguing to be 'right', especially among friends, lovers and family. It is Ok to fight abuse.

 

You may live a very long life or it could be taken from you in a moment of an accident or heath issue. People you love will leave you, some will die before you. The grief you will face is a consequence of loving. Be prepared for this. Each time someone leaves your presence, be sure to hug them, because we never know if they are coming back.

 

There is no magical god to guide you. God was made up by the first humans because as soon as humans became conscious - they watched others around them die and knew this would also happen to them, so they made stories up about an afterlife to sooth them in their death aniexty. You will die someday Margee and I want you to accept that you will go back to nothingness as you were for billions of years before you arrived here.

 

What I want you to do everyday with your life is live to the full extent that you can, by being responsible, a hard worker and then I want you to take time out for pleasure everyday. Happiness will come from accepting all these things. Yes, you will get tired because life is work... but when you get tired, I want you to take time out for yourself and recoupe for a couple of days and then get out and do life again. Your reward at the end of your life is that you did your best.

 

Remember as many good times as you can and let go as much as you can, of the pain and memories of those who hurt you. Humans are all at different levels of evolving and some will cause you pain. Pick yourself back up as soon as you can and create something different for yourself. Now go Margee and do this thing called life......... accept it for what it is.... a journey only you can make. Try to make this story of your life as good as you can. When you don't like how the story is - change it to something different. You were born to be alive for awhile, so go make the best out of it!!

 

.............end of lecture from my 'made up' mentor.

 

This is the talk I had to have with myself and I still have to do this everyday. The reality and acceptance of it, helps me a lot to deal with life. I am in the process even now.......to change a few things to make life a little more pleasant and it is helping me a lot. I have accepted that I will die someday, but right now, I am living every minute as best as I can. No, it's not always easy because I created some stress in my life that only I can fix in the next year, but I am hoping to conquer it.

 

Along with the suggestions others have made of eating right and getting some fresh air and exercise... life is feeling better lately. None of this is really easy...I will always wish for the magical god that I once had........

 

This is my experience only..... if I have said something that might help you even a little ..it was worth writing out this whole story of mine.

Best of everything to you my friend.

 

Sincerely, Margee

[SaraMWHB]

Taking my medication (drugs) is too easy, and boring. I don't want to go back there right now, I know exactly what that place is like. It took me four months to get off the meds, now I'm where I wanted to be. I call it reality, and yes it hurts, but it's a bit more interesting then before. I feel something can happen now, I'm in a place where possibilities exist.

 

I know very well what antidepressants do. They turn you into a nice little robot that conforms to society's wishes and numbs any ideas you might have had to rock the boat. Yes antidepressants are very useful to society, but are they useful to the individual? Only to the one that wants to conform to society. Why would I want to conform? Society sucks. Not the people, the system. Humans invented a system and today we realize that this system sucks and it's time to change it. But change is scary, and it's difficult. It's much easier to swallow a pill and keep things as they are, than to initiate change.

 

Denyoz - ditto on speaking with your doctor. Antidepressants are meant to help the individual be in balance, not conform to society's ideals.

 

Anyhow - a question: Are you waiting for something to come along and give you hope and inspiration as maybe you expected when you still believed in god? When you still believed, it's possible that simply the hope that he would provide you with hope was enough. At this point, remind yourself you are responsible for making your own hope and your own possibilities.

 

Your profile says you like video games - take classes that will enable you to design them. Try writing some game reviews and posting them on websites designed just for that purpose. You never know what will happen if you put yourself out there!