Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Denyoz

No God = No Hope

Recommended Posts

This has been a helpful read.

The biggest and most painful difficulties I am experiencing with deconverting are similar to the OP. Lack of hope for any life beyond this short abbreviated affair to me is horrifying after 29 years of believing in an afterlife, even with all its flaws. I buried my 13 year old cat on Thursday and the enormity of this reality hit me like a freight train. I am in the middle of a very grim time for me and although there have been a a number of incredibly kind and compassionate posts from others I still find this new cold splash of water in the face fundamentally hard to take on so many levels. I am not doing particularly well to be honest but I am told things get better as I move along. Ginger's death hasn't helped so soon after losing my faith. It has jammed my mortality and the mortality of all those who I love into sharp blindingly agonizing focus. I have had my face ground into the broken glass of a smashed belief system and I've been forced to see my lovely wife in the grave and realize that when that awful day comes, I shall never, ever see her or anyone I love again. It's too much to bear to be honest. I cannot express how absolutely awful I feel when I look at this, and it hasn't even happened yet, I am paralysed by this bleak reality.

Add to this my innate sense of perpetual outrage at the injustices and evil in the world. I had always as a believer justified a belief in judgement as required in order to ensure that all the innocent millions who died in abject misery and despair would be comforted and their cause would be heard. That JUSTICE would be done and there would be recompense for all the wickedness on the part of the mighty and cruel through the years. The idea that there is no balancing of the scales so to speak I find gutwrenching. What the flying fuck is the point of all this suffering?

 

I am sure I am going to make it, but bloody hell this is painful. Is there a genetic predisposition that makes some people tend to spend too much time contemplating "the Big Picture" fro their own good, because if so I am one with that genetic makeup and I want to trade it in! I'd like to get away from death, life, God/noGod, Justice, suffering, and meaning, even if just for a little while, I feel like my heart is ready to burst from pressure.

I am sooooo glad this sounding board is here for us because without it I honestly don't know what I would do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Norton, I'm sorry to hear about Ginger. She may be physically gone but remember, no one, and nothing can ever take away your memories and experiences with her. You, and only you, own all of that.

 

When we learn to deal with death in a healthy manner, all the rest of it is no so "freaky" to us.

 

Enjoy your life, don't get hung up on "there's no afterlife", it robs you or your happiness right now.

 

And yes, in time it all gets better. You won't feel this way forever. Your religion just died as well, you are in mourning. It's normal to go through the same symptoms as though a physical death has occured.

 

This may or may not help. http://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm loving this topic, its reflecting some of the thoughts I've had going through my head recently. I do tend to over-analyse everything and wonder about the 'big picture' too, and my depression level has peaked recently thinking about it all. But I like to think that there's possibly something out there, be it a God/spirit, or just the consciousness of the universe(s). I had an interesting conversation with my uncle who is big on spirituality, but not particular about religion. He says that if there's a God up there, he's a lot bigger than any religion or dogma on little ol' planet earth. I find peace thinking that there's something up there, but I'm content in not knowing what or how.

 

My recent thoughts have been around the purpose of life, what we're here for and why do we bother if we're all going to die one day. But its the journey, not the destination!

 

It's hard, and I'm not always happy with everything, but I guess its a start. I hope this helps :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This book has helped me sooooo much. 'A Guide To the Good Life'.

 

It is very simple to read and has given me a last chance at living the type of life I want with healthy attitudes. I couldn't put it down! Maybe it will help someone else. Well worth the read during deconversion. The website gives a great excerpt from the book! Here is a review:

 

 

How can we live a fulfilling and meaningful life? According to Irvine (philosophy, Wright State Univ.; On Desire ), modern academic philosophy cannot help us answer this question because it is more concerned with theoretical problems than how to live a meaningful life. He explains that we must look back to the Stoic philosophers of ancient Greece and Rome to establish a philosophy of life. Using the writings of Epictetus, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius, Irvine shows how Stoic ethics and psychological theories can help us overcome negative emotions and determine what is truly important for living a fulfilling life. These sections cover a wide range of topics from how to deal with insults to how to confront death. In the last sections, Irvine explains the impact of Stoic philosophy on his own life and offers advice for individuals who want to live by Stoic doctrines. Irvine's intended audience is nonphilosophers, but everyone can profit from his clear presentation on the benefits of using philosophical doctrines to live a meaningful life.

 

http://williambirvine.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Is there a genetic predisposition that makes some people tend to spend too much time contemplating "the Big Picture" fro their own good, because if so I am one with that genetic makeup and I want to trade it in!

 

I tend to think there is. I know because I obsess over this stuff, whereas my wife looks at me with withering eyes and says, 'why can't you just live your life and stop worrying about all that crap?'

 

Would that it were so easy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks Margee, I will check this book out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sure hope Denyoz is alright!wink.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a genetic predisposition that makes some people tend to spend too much time contemplating "the Big Picture" fro their own good

I tend to think there is. I know because I obsess over this stuff, whereas my wife looks at me with withering eyes and says, 'why can't you just live your life and stop worrying about all that crap?'

Me too! I am easily tormented by the big picture and have a strong sense of weltschmerz. I have to overcome it on a daily basis. I think it's a personality thing or related to cognitive patterns. I have always been like this. I can't change how I am fundamentally, but I am trying to "act locally". I cannot save the world but I can be kind to the cashier at the checkout, etc.

 

Sucks to be us!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote Denyoz: ''Depression happens when you get sick and tired of doing the same boring thing over and over and over. It's not an illness, it's a call to evolve''.

 

I do very much believe, that part of the problem with depression is this statement you made.......thank you for this today........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a psychological descriptor of people who self-examine so much that they have a little trouble just moving past. It's a symptom of PTSD, but I'm drawing a mental blank. Excessive rumination?

 

Exercise is a really good way to stop that cycle. Meditation. I used to imagine a bright spinning disk and try to "stop" it or make it start spinning the other direction. Learning the Buddhist concept of "mindfulness" also helped a lot to get out of that mental trap. When washing dishes, if I realized my mind was wandering onto self-flagellation, I'd start saying, "I'm here, right now, washing dishes. There's one, and another. I'm looking out the window and it's gorgeous and green outside." And I'd keep my concentration on the right here and now for just a little while until the spell passed. When I'm busy thinking about the past and how I handled this or that situation, I'm NOT doing the things that matter most to me with my whole heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my 3,000 post and I want it to be special today. yellow.gif A very happy moment for me this afternoon was seeing denyoz on board. I get very attached to the people here on EX-c who share their life stories, sorrows, trials and tribulations with us and denyoz has added such a beautiful touch to EX-c. He quiclky became one of my favorites.

 

You, my friend Deny have so much to contribute... all your wit, information and intelligence!

I for one today, am VERY glad to see you on EX-c!

 

This is my special 3,000 post mark today...dedicated to my friend Deny!!

 

sincerely, Margee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time for cake!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my special 3,000 post mark today...dedicated to my friend Deny!!

 

Margee! I can't believe you dedicated your 3,000th post to me! I... I... I don't know what to say... thank you! I'm so touched by this, I don't feel I deserve it. You're such a thoughtful and caring lady.

You're my virtual Goddess of love Cryotanknotworthy.gifsmileybreasts.gif

 

Praise be to the Goddess, our Lord Margee! In her great mercy she has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Denyoz from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. 1 Pita 1:3-4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Denoyz, thank you for starting this thread and being so honest and open. It was fantastic to read through this and see all the comments and advice and caring... and also to see your progression, thinking through things and feeling better. Hope things are still going well smile.png

 

I borrowed a lot of the advice on here, too. Like you I'm fairly newly deconverted and it's been a bit traumatic and even though I don't have dependents or anything, I'm feeling a bit trapped in the life I'm in. Isn't there any way I can do/mean more? In November I was at the point of being almost unable to function so I too went on antidepressants. I have had to increase the dosage once due to some situational stuff and every month I ask when I can go off them... but I definitely don't see them as a weakness and they have enabled me to start to put one foot in front of the other and I'm grateful for that!

 

I'm not sure where you are in Quebec, but I'm in Kingston. We have no free-thinking groups or anything there (that I can find), but I've signed up for a bunch of news threads and emails from different groups I'm interested in (Center for Inquiry, various ones) in Ottawa and Toronto and keep my eye open for events that I could potentially attend. Haven't found one yet, but it's just good to know that there are more of us here and making a difference.

 

In my one-foot-in-front of the next mantra, i started signing up for things months away.... I signed up for a 5k in July. Omg, I can't run, but hopefully it gets me out. Also, looking for opportunities to "be a part" of something bigger, as others were talking about here. I miss the sense of belonging and safety and security that came with my church community, but I do believe that "euphoria" can be re-created when I'm out of this funk. It ain't all roses, but my hope is that because life has had it's ups and downs and ups in the past and now I know it wasn't god that did that, there will probably be ups again! My hope is that I connect with people on here and in life and we can support, help and love each other, and that does give life meaning!

 

Anyway, just my two cents. Looking forward to hearing more about your journey and please share if you find any good opportunities or things to do!!! I love the advice, too smile.png

 

ps. Margee, congrats on #3000! I LOVE reading your posts!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly two months today since I posted my extimony. Did I make some progress? Yes I did.

 

Last month I started taking my medication again, gradually. Since it takes about a month for the effect to kick in, I was in the pits for about three weeks and stayed away from this site because, well, when I'm depressed I just want to shut myself off from everybody. And I got physically sick too and so weak...

 

Anyway, I started feeling better this week, and decided to come back on board yesterday. Thanks again Margee for the exceptional welcome gift, that was really something. Thanks also to NeverAgainV for the PM sent on April 18, this is another reason why I came back. And Though2Much, your Coming Out Story got me all excited about this site again. And norton65ca, the death of your cat got me all feely and I realized how much I love ALL of you, no matter how virtual this all is, somehow it sometimes seems more real than RL.

 

100 points to the 32% who encouraged me to take my medication, got to admit now, you were right. Without them, my whole system shuts down, I don't know why, I'm probably addicted for life, so be it.

 

Gods or drugs, who wins? Drugs get the trophy! *clap clap clap* Let's build a temple and worship (just kidding).

 

Which reminds me of what Margee suggested in #74. (Great post btw, thanks for sharing something so personal. What you and your mentor wrote is beautiful and uplifting.) This is what I meant when I wrote about creating gods. You pretend that there is a higher intelligence talking to you, and you get surprising results. This is probably what the authors of the Bible did, which we call inspiration. It's like an out-of-the-body experience where you get out of yourself and position your perception above the ego. Interesting how and why we do this. Kind of like a survival mechanism similar to a split personality disorder.

 

Got to go feed my kids, bye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my 3,000 post and I want it to be special today. yellow.gif A very happy moment for me this afternoon was seeing denyoz on board. I get very attached to the people here on EX-c who share their life stories, sorrows, trials and tribulations with us and denyoz has added such a beautiful touch to EX-c. He quiclky became one of my favorites.

 

You, my friend Deny have so much to contribute... all your wit, information and intelligence!

I for one today, am VERY glad to see you on EX-c!

 

This is my special 3,000 post mark today...dedicated to my friend Deny!!

 

sincerely, Margee

clicks on "like" button!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So glad to hear all this, Denyoz. I used to work with someone who often had to change antidepressant meds, so she'd do it over the summer, in order to give them time to kick in before the school year started and we were back in classes with the kids. Doesn't sound surprising that it took you a few weeks.

 

I don't know much about fundies in Canada, but kristen and denyoz and margee and some of you others, I feel envy that they don't seem to wield as much power up there as they do in the US.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a question: Are you waiting for something to come along and give you hope and inspiration as maybe you expected when you still believed in god? When you still believed, it's possible that simply the hope that he would provide you with hope was enough. At this point, remind yourself you are responsible for making your own hope and your own possibilities.

 

Hi Sara, welcome to Ex-C, I see that you are relatively new smile.png

 

The answer to your question is yes and no. I'm not sure where you're getting at. When I said I had no hope, I was talking about humanity, not my own short pathetic life. "The big picture": where is humanity going and how can I contribute to it with my own life? This is what I find hopeless. Of course, I can stop thinking about humanity and just concentrate on my immediate surroundings and things look a lot less dramatic, but also a lot less interesting. To me anyway. I need to know where I fit in the world to give my life meaning, I can't help it. Well yes, I can ignore it, and that's what I do, lock myself in my basement with my pc and play with virtual realities, maybe this is how humans will evolve, I don't know, but this is what I do.

 

Your profile says you like video games - take classes that will enable you to design them. Try writing some game reviews and posting them on websites designed just for that purpose. You never know what will happen if you put yourself out there!

 

Do you have kids? I have four. Right now I'm busy just keeping the house from turning into a disaster area. If I leave for one hour, god knows what the place will look like when I come back. I would love to get out more. In fact, I want to run away and never come back. Who ever said "kids are the joy of my life" deserves to have his mouth taped and thrown into a lake of fire for eternity.

 

Sorry I had to get this off my chest. I'm not angry at you. I am angry at kids and how thoughtless, selfish, rude, gross, and stupid they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been a helpful read.

The biggest and most painful difficulties I am experiencing with deconverting are similar to the OP. Lack of hope for any life beyond this short abbreviated affair to me is horrifying after 29 years of believing in an afterlife, even with all its flaws. I buried my 13 year old cat on Thursday and the enormity of this reality hit me like a freight train. I am in the middle of a very grim time for me and although there have been a a number of incredibly kind and compassionate posts from others I still find this new cold splash of water in the face fundamentally hard to take on so many levels. I am not doing particularly well to be honest but I am told things get better as I move along. Ginger's death hasn't helped so soon after losing my faith. It has jammed my mortality and the mortality of all those who I love into sharp blindingly agonizing focus. I have had my face ground into the broken glass of a smashed belief system and I've been forced to see my lovely wife in the grave and realize that when that awful day comes, I shall never, ever see her or anyone I love again. It's too much to bear to be honest. I cannot express how absolutely awful I feel when I look at this, and it hasn't even happened yet, I am paralysed by this bleak reality.

Add to this my innate sense of perpetual outrage at the injustices and evil in the world. I had always as a believer justified a belief in judgement as required in order to ensure that all the innocent millions who died in abject misery and despair would be comforted and their cause would be heard. That JUSTICE would be done and there would be recompense for all the wickedness on the part of the mighty and cruel through the years. The idea that there is no balancing of the scales so to speak I find gutwrenching. What the flying fuck is the point of all this suffering?

 

I am sure I am going to make it, but bloody hell this is painful. Is there a genetic predisposition that makes some people tend to spend too much time contemplating "the Big Picture" fro their own good, because if so I am one with that genetic makeup and I want to trade it in! I'd like to get away from death, life, God/noGod, Justice, suffering, and meaning, even if just for a little while, I feel like my heart is ready to burst from pressure.

I am sooooo glad this sounding board is here for us because without it I honestly don't know what I would do.

 

Norton I wasn't there when you posted this. I read it yesterday when I came back on board and what a painfully comforting read it is. We're all on the same boat. Don't know where the phoquen boat is going, but at least we're not alone. I have a cat, she's one year old, and I love her more than I love my own kids. So does my wife, in fact we secretly told each other the other day that if we would have known, we never would have had children and instead get ourselves a house full of cats. The nice thing about cats is they're all the same. And they have nine lives. Nive times thirteen is 117 years. Ginger will outlive you. Cats reincarnate. Ginger is in a pet shop not far away. Go for it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deny, I don't think you know how important this thread is. It has been saved in my favorites for a reason. Depression is an epidemic today. We need to talk about our days that we want to give up. I still have those days and I need you guys to help me through it. You are right when you say they we are all 'cyber' friends but I would rather have you guys anyday then some of the people in my community that I can't be my real self with.

 

As you know, I had the honor of meeting 3 EX-c friends in person and I can guarintee you that we are all real people......beautiful people with BIG hearts, who most of the time because of the distance between us, can only communicate through our posts.. I told you all - you guys know me better than my friends right here in my community. EX-c is my 'face book'. EX-c is part of my life now and I hope it will be for a long , long time.

 

I am sooooooo glad you are feeling a little better. NEVER feel ashamed to post if you are majorly down in the dumps. I come here at least once a month with a full rant of how I hate fucking life!! We need your wit and intelligence!! You are such a caring human being. AND it's also OK to like cats better than kids. I think if a lot of people could admit it - they would do it different. We all got caught up in doing what the world expected of us. Get married, have four kids..... white picket fence, blah, blah, blah.........We forgot to remind ourselves that if we went along with the 'Jones's Cult', that the white picket fence costs a lot of fucking money!!

Do your best to get them grown up and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

 

I don't think many of us knew the huge responsibility to bring up kids and own a house, etc........ But we have to own up to that responsibilty now.......the kids are so precious...they need someone to guide them...you can guide your kids now to become 'freethinkers' now, so they don't walk around earth like 'robots'. Let them know early that thet don't have to join the Jones's cult!! We are all in this together, to help each other.

 

Don't stop being honest Deny - that 's what makes you so special!! We are afraid to tell each other how afraid we are of life...It can be VERY scary and we need to be able to voice this ...so we can help each other get back on track again......

 

I hope this thread turns into 110 pages of people giving supporting suggestions on how they work their depression and it's evils!! I have already taken some of their advice.

 

I went to a movie tonight....that felt good. I isolate also...I'm going to take the suggestions on this board and go for a nice walk tomorrow....I hope you do the same. Tell the kids, daddy needs a space break !!

 

huge hug for you tonight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Margee! I can't believe you dedicated your 3,000th post to me! I... I... I don't know what to say... thank you! I'm so touched by this, I don't feel I deserve it.

 

Their are those on this board who believe that we have 'god' inside of us......I like that idea!!

 

Remember when we always used to say that god works through others....? Well that's what god is doing on EX-C..... since he won't show up - we have to!!! woohoo.gif YOU DO DESERVE IT!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Denyoz, you are special, don't anybody tell you anything else. Each and every person on Earth is a sui generis, whether for the worse or better. Depression, by your definition, I have it too. But together, we'll overcome. :)

 

BTW Margee, congrats on the 3,000th post! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Valk0010

I will speak from my experience with Antidepressants. I was on, one, took a month made me batshit. Second one, made me even more batshit. I now take lithium only, and while I still have problems. Its way better then I was on antidepressants. But that said. Find the right meds and take them religiously. I even have times as of late when I think, "wow this is how normal people must feel."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will speak from my experience with Antidepressants. I was on, one, took a month made me batshit. Second one, made me even more batshit. I now take lithium only, and while I still have problems. Its way better then I was on antidepressants. But that said. Find the right meds and take them religiously. I even have times as of late when I think, "wow this is how normal people must feel."

 

Valk...how do they know how much lithium to give to a depressed person? Do they just experiment with the dosage? I have also read that lithium is one of the best mood stablizers...........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I logged in feeling bad about what I said yesterday about loving my cat more than my own kids. I thought: "Oh god, why do I write things like that! People are going to throw stones at me for sure, and I deserve it." I'm so politically incorrect. Anyway I was relieve to read Margee saying it's ok to like cats better than kids. I know it's not the kids' fault, they just want to have fun, they're also caught in this system and they never asked to be born. They have a lot less freedom than I had when I was a kid. Everything is so "safe" nowadays and just plain no fun. When I was 8 years old I could ride my bike anywhere in the village, go to the beach, downtown, in the woods, it was so cool. Today, you have to keep your kids locked up inside because everybody is so afraid that they might get hurt. Fuck, what's wrong with getting hurt? Let the kids live!

 

My neighborhood is very family-oriented. Everything is new, clean, and all the houses look the same. The perfect place to bring up a family (according the society's norms). The school is just a few blocks away, and there are nice little parks everywhere. It couldn't be any safer. But the kids are bored to death. There is nothing to discover, nothing to explore. So they do stupid things to entertain themselves. The neighbours hate us, well they don't like our kids, and I don't blame them, I don't like my kids either. Right now my two youngest are fighting upstairs, one is crying, I hear things being thrown around, my wife locked herself up in the bedroom. We just want to spend a nice, quiet, relaxing Sunday afternoon at home, but it's impossible.

 

I spent the whole morning in the bathroom trying to unclog the sink. I tried everything: drano, the plunger, I have no idea what they put in there, nothing works and the water won't drain at all. I gave up. They slammed a bedroom door so hard, the whole frame came appart, I'll have to fix that too. They pulled down curtains, the pole and everything, I'm not putting it back, what's the use. They punched holes in the walls, mixed up all their toys, Legos with Barbie clothes with puzzles and video games, everything is mixed together in a big mess, impossible to play with anything. One time I spent the whole day sorting out everything, putting everything back in its box, and a month later everything was back as it was. I gave up. They torture the cat, steal and break our stuff, lie, burp and fart at the table as loud as they can, it's just so very unpleasant to live with them, sure it was cute and funny at first, but now I'm just sick of everything.

 

We do things with them, but we can't always do things. Once in a while we adults need to stop and relax, and that's when all hell breaks loose. Kids don't want to relax, they want action, noise, they want to laugh. I think I would be a lot less depressed if it wasn't for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.