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Goodbye Jesus

No God = No Hope


Denyoz

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Deny, I don't think you know how important this thread is. It has been saved in my favorites for a reason. Depression is an epidemic today. We need to talk about our days that we want to give up. I still have those days and I need you guys to help me through it. You are right when you say they we are all 'cyber' friends but I would rather have you guys anyday then some of the people in my community that I can't be my real self with.

 

Thank you Margee, your encouragement is priceless, you don't know how much I appreciate it.

 

I'm sure Santa is watching, and you'll be rewarded on Christmas day.

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Denyoz, you are special, don't anybody tell you anything else. Each and every person on Earth is a sui generis, whether for the worse or better. Depression, by your definition, I have it too. But together, we'll overcome.

 

Thank you Onyx, that is beautiful and heart-warming.

 

Then I read your signature:

 

"People who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics. Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it... Because cynicism is... a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us. Cynics always say no. But saying yes begins things. Saying yes is how things grow. Saying yes leads to knowledge... So for as long as you have the strength to, say yes." - Stephen Colbert

 

Ha! ha! I'm probably the most cynic person on the face of this earth. I feel this was written just for me. How this correlates to your comment, I don't know, but I don't mind, It's the funniest contradiction I have read this week. I love it! But wait... Stephen Colbert is a comedian isn't he? So was he being sarcastic when he said this or was he serious?

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Hey Denoyz, thank you for starting this thread and being so honest and open. It was fantastic to read through this and see all the comments and advice and caring... and also to see your progression, thinking through things and feeling better. Hope things are still going well.

 

I'm not sure where you are in Quebec, but I'm in Kingston. We have no free-thinking groups or anything there (that I can find), but I've signed up for a bunch of news threads and emails from different groups I'm interested in (Center for Inquiry, various ones) in Ottawa and Toronto and keep my eye open for events that I could potentially attend. Haven't found one yet, but it's just good to know that there are more of us here and making a difference.

 

Anyway, just my two cents. Looking forward to hearing more about your journey and please share if you find any good opportunities or things to do!!! I love the advice, too.

 

Hi kristen, and thank you for your comment. So you're in Kingston, cool, not that far away. I'm in Gatineau.

 

I never thought of joining a free-thinking group, something to replace the church community. Hmm, interesting idea, but I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for. You mention the "Center for Inquiry". I looked it up, had never heard of it before. Interesting. Have to read more about it before I can make any comments though.

 

Something like an anti-church Church, that would be awesome.

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I don't know much about fundies in Canada, but kristen and denyoz and margee and some of you others, I feel envy that they don't seem to wield as much power up there as they do in the US.

 

I thought there were a lot a churches in Quebec, but we went to New York State on Easter weekend, drove all around through Rochester and Buffalo. Holy shit, I'ver never seen so many churches in my life. My 19 year old son could not believe his eyes, and we were still miles away from the bible belt. You guys are swimming in religiosity, it's sickening.

 

Most churches in Quebec have turned into architectural artifacts or even museums. Very few people still practice religion. In my city, many churches were sold and turned into senior homes. The few that are left open are almost empty. There are hardly any French-Canadian fundies, but there are some, I was one of them lucky ones freak3.gif .

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I will speak from my experience with Antidepressants. I was on, one, took a month made me batshit. Second one, made me even more batshit. I now take lithium only, and while I still have problems. Its way better then I was on antidepressants. But that said. Find the right meds and take them religiously. I even have times as of late when I think, "wow this is how normal people must feel."

 

I can relate. Had to try many different things before finding out the right medication and the right dosage. It's long and hard but when you find the right stuff, it's such a relief to feel normal again.

 

Wife: "How do you feel?"

 

Me: "I'm almost happy."

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I like to think that there's possibly something out there, be it a God/spirit, or just the consciousness of the universe(s)....

 

My recent thoughts have been around the purpose of life, what we're here for and why do we bother if we're all going to die one day. But its the journey, not the destination!

 

Hey Dory, thanks for your post. I hope you're doing well, I know you had it rough. Like you, I like to think that there's possibly something out there, something big that has not been discovered yet, or perhaps exists in some other dimension to which we might transcend eventually. It gives me hope and it keeps my imagination and sense of wonder alive.

 

The purpose of life is a difficult one. As far as I can see, there is no purpose. When people tell me I have to set my own goals and decide for myself what my purpose is, it doesn't work for me. Because my goals and purpose are destructive and probably evil (if there is such a thing). Example: I'd like to experiment with drugs. All the feel-good drugs, I want to try them. I can't do that. Well yes I can but apparently it's destructive, and being destructive is unacceptable. My goals have to be the same as everybody else. But then it becomes a competition. Everything now seems to be a competition. Why do we have to compete all the time? I just want to do what I want to do and not constantly be judged favourably and unfavourably by others, and have people and institutions decide what's best for me all the time.

 

What does "best for me" mean anyway? I spent my whole life doing what's "best for me" and all it does is make me more and more depressed. I want to do what's NOT best for me for a change.

 

I know that my thought process is not ok. I know. I am sick. I have a mental illness called major depressive disorder. I cannot think correctly, so I cannot set any goals for myself. Someone else has to do it. And it pisses me off. I don't judge my thought process so why do I let others judge it? I see it as control and conformity.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone. This thread is about depression. Perhaps it helps someone to know what goes on inside the depressed person's mind. It's no fun at all. Perhaps someone reading this will feel comforted by its familiarity. I don't know why I'm writing this. Yes I do: my goddess told me to do it smile.png

 

People get upset when I open up. They don't like what I say. I've been on other sites before I joined this one. I usually express myself freely in writing (unlike in person). I was told politely and sometimes not so politely, several times, that my posts were offensive. I was on a Depression Forum last year and when I started expressing myself, they started deleting my posts. They sent me a message saying my posts were too depressing. THIS WAS THE DEPRESSION WEBSITE for people suffering from depression, can you believe.

 

Jesus is everywhere and positivity rules. This site is the only place I know where negativity is tolerated, where you can actually get points for telling the good-little-christian to fuck off. Long live Ex-C!

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Deny, this type of depression post will attract those who suffer and as your main title is No god = No hope.... that will also attract those who are feeling the same way we all did. Newcomers will read this. These types of posts can go a few weeks with nothing and then all of a sudden... someone will get it back up and going again. The gang on here who are not depressed will read other posts. Everybody has something they like to read on Ex-c. I NEVER go to the politics.... not my thing. That's why we have a bit of everything for everyone on EX-c!

 

I am interested in depression because I too have been a fighting 'sufferer' and I like to share and learn on the topic. Sometimes, it will be the same people keeping the post going. It dosen't matter - it's here for us and we can be honest and help one another.

 

I think the mods would get a little concerned if any of us started going off the deep end. I mean...look through the posts.....we have almost suicide letters here at EX-c. They are scary.....these are our friends.Wendytwitch.gif

 

Suffering depression and losing faith can be detrimental to some. I was one of them.I was quite embarrased about several of my posts in the last 16 months and worried if people thought I was a fuckin' nut case. Many helped me through and encouraged me through the whole bullshit experience. It was very hard to let go of god and come to terms with the fact you might be on your own!!

 

Deny, I already mentioned in a post above that you do not have to compete anymore.I called it , 'The Jone's Cult''....... doing what everybody else does.... just start being exactly who you are. You will come to realize who you are the more you post and share your feelings. It takes time.

 

When you said you spent your whole life doing what was 'best for you' and all it did was get you more depressed - what did you mean by that?

 

I KNOW you are not a foolish man....you are VERY smart.

 

I found that it took years to know who I really am. I did not know how introverted I was all my life. I was in the wrong business even though I was highly successful - I suffered to the point of drinking way too much alcohol to calm this poor brain down. I needed to be in a carreer that wasn't so overwhelming. I had to play, 'beat the clock my whole life, staying on schedule all day long doing a 'full-house,' 8-12 hours a day doing woman's and men's hair, one after another all day...no breaks.. noice, noise, noise all day long. I was an introvert trying very hard to be an extrovert. It was exhausting!! I was sooo burnt out at 50..I wanted to drop and die. I tell you my story to encourage you not to be ashamed of who you are. If you can't take a lot of noise... you MUST find a way to get the space you need to re-coup your mind and body.

 

Do everything in your power to create a simplier life. It's when we get overwhelmed that our minds go nuts!! wacko.png

 

I have found that a lot of my depression over the years was 'situational. ' Do you find that?

 

Another question I wanted to ask you is why do you think your goals are evil and destructive? Can you share a little more on that smile.png

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I logged in feeling bad about what I said yesterday about loving my cat more than my own kids. I thought: "Oh god, why do I write things like that! People are going to throw stones at me for sure, and I deserve it." I'm so politically incorrect. Anyway I was relieve to read Margee saying it's ok to like cats better than kids. I know it's not the kids' fault, they just want to have fun, they're also caught in this system and they never asked to be born. They have a lot less freedom than I had when I was a kid. Everything is so "safe" nowadays and just plain no fun. When I was 8 years old I could ride my bike anywhere in the village, go to the beach, downtown, in the woods, it was so cool. Today, you have to keep your kids locked up inside because everybody is so afraid that they might get hurt. Fuck, what's wrong with getting hurt? Let the kids live!

 

My neighborhood is very family-oriented. Everything is new, clean, and all the houses look the same. The perfect place to bring up a family (according the society's norms). The school is just a few blocks away, and there are nice little parks everywhere. It couldn't be any safer. But the kids are bored to death. There is nothing to discover, nothing to explore. So they do stupid things to entertain themselves. The neighbours hate us, well they don't like our kids, and I don't blame them, I don't like my kids either. Right now my two youngest are fighting upstairs, one is crying, I hear things being thrown around, my wife locked herself up in the bedroom. We just want to spend a nice, quiet, relaxing Sunday afternoon at home, but it's impossible.

 

I spent the whole morning in the bathroom trying to unclog the sink. I tried everything: drano, the plunger, I have no idea what they put in there, nothing works and the water won't drain at all. I gave up. They slammed a bedroom door so hard, the whole frame came appart, I'll have to fix that too. They pulled down curtains, the pole and everything, I'm not putting it back, what's the use. They punched holes in the walls, mixed up all their toys, Legos with Barbie clothes with puzzles and video games, everything is mixed together in a big mess, impossible to play with anything. One time I spent the whole day sorting out everything, putting everything back in its box, and a month later everything was back as it was. I gave up. They torture the cat, steal and break our stuff, lie, burp and fart at the table as loud as they can, it's just so very unpreasant to live with them, sure it was cute and funny at first, but now I'm just sick of everything.

 

good gawd !! Wendytwitch.gif This sounds to me like an overwhelmed man ready to blow like a volcano firedevil.gif ....... you have got to find a way to get this atmosphere calmed down a little.......you wonder why you might have depressive illness...wink.png

I am not being mean here.....just sympathetic...

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Good grief, denyoz. Please get the cat to safety. If they're really hurting or tormenting it, you must protect it. Please.

 

I hope it gets better soon. Sounds like the kids are reflecting back what's going on in the household. I just hurt for the cat most right now.

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It does sound pretty bad when I jam everything into one paragraph. But my situation is not any different than other married couples with children, it's actually better than most. I could put up with it easily when I was in my twenties and early thirties. It's an age thing. I'm 49 now. I don't have the patience, energy and will that used to have. It's normal. The kids will grow out of it, that too is just a phase. And the cat is safe now, I made sure of that.

 

I do get quiet time. A lot of it, but not on weekends. MY weekend starts on Monday and ends Friday night. Everyone tells me I'm lucky. Maybe I should write about the good stuff.

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It does sound pretty bad when I jam everything into one paragraph. But my situation is not any different than other married couples with children, it's actually better than most. I could put up with it easily when I was in my twenties and early thirties. It's an age thing. I'm 49 now. I don't have the patience, energy and will that used to have. It's normal. The kids will grow out of it, that too is just a phase. And the cat is safe now, I made sure of that.

 

I do get quiet time. A lot of it, but not on weekends. MY weekend starts on Monday and ends Friday night. Everyone tells me I'm lucky. Maybe I should write about the good stuff.

 

This is good Deny......sometimes when we write our posts, it sounds like the whole house is on fire and it might be just a candle burning.... but when one is overwhelmed in the mind...it's seems like the whole commuinty is going up in flames!! That's what my mind can do to me!! I am trying so hard to look at things in bite size peices, one thing at a time........ Getting things as quiet and simple as I can.

 

It is good for us to keep our eyes on the good stuff.... being also aware of listening to the children laugh, instad of fight, as a good example. I put up the link to a book I am reading.... a link from positivist.....''Feeling Good, The New Mood Therepy'' by David D. burns.... an awesome book that reminds me of the way I can think. Here's a sample of the list and the link to it. Read and see if you 'think' any of these ways..........I can relate to everyone of them!!! Wendytwitch.gif I'm workin' on it though!!

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....tive_distortion

  • All-or-nothing thinking (splitting) – Conception in absolute terms, like "always", "every", "never", and "there is no alternative". (See also "false dilemma" or "false dichotomy".)
  • Overgeneralization – Extrapolating limited experiences and evidence to broad generalizations. (See also faulty generalization and misleading vividness.)
  • Magical thinking - Expectation of certain outcomes based on performance of unrelated acts or utterances. (See also wishful thinking.)
  • Mental filter – Inability to view positive or negative features of an experience, for example, noticing only a tiny imperfection in a piece of otherwise useful clothing.
  • Jumping to conclusions – Reaching conclusions (usually negative) from little (if any) evidence. Two specific subtypes are also identified:
    • Mind reading – Sense of access to special knowledge of the intentions or thoughts of others.
    • Fortune telling – Inflexible expectations for how things will turn out before they happen.

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Thanks Margee for all that you have shared with me. It's helpfull. Sorry I didn't reply immediately. I needed time to recollect my thoughts.

 

When you said you spent your whole life doing what was 'best for you' and all it did was get you more depressed - what did you mean by that?

 

You know, the whole "good little christian boy" routine. Be nice, don't lie, don't cheat, submit to the authorities, love everyone, be a servant to all like Jesus, and you'll get a big reward in heaven.

 

I'm sorry to say that, well maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I feel like: I was abused. My niceness did not serve me well. I feel like everyone took advantage. I was lied to, cheated on, and used for profit. Even my own kids now, I feel like all they want is to get the most out of me. They say they love me, but it's almost always to get something out of me. This whole love game sucks. I often feel this from my wife sometimes, but not all the time. I'm kind of confused when it comes to love, I don't believe in it. I think its a lie, like christianity. But I keep telling myself I'm wrong, that it's all caused by depression.

 

I have found that a lot of my depression over the years was 'situational. ' Do you find that?

 

Yes.

 

Another question I wanted to ask you is why do you think your goals are evil and destructive? Can you share a little more on that

 

Well, considering my answer to your first question, I still find myself serving others, as a father, a husband, a good citizen, a taxpayer. And it doesn't give me a good feeling. I want to free myself from all this, but how is it possible? I would have to isolate myself.

 

When someone asks me what it is that I really want, the first thing that comes to mind is to isolate myself, detach myself from everything and everyone I feel enslaved to. Wouldn't that be destructive? Destroying my relationship with my kids, my family, my wife, myself? I've discussed this with my wife and we always come to the same conclusion. I would not be happy if I would do that. The situation I'm in right now is what's best for me.

 

But no matter how hard I try and how much medication I take, I still feel trapped.

 

But let me add something. This is deep stuff. I don't spend my time thinking about the deep stuff, it's no fun. So I do fun things and life is fine. It's when I start dwelling on "how I really feel deep down" that it gets ugly. Better to stay superficial. But this doesn't ring right for me, but you see this is it: I always thought life was profound, but now, without God, it has become so superficial, and I wonder: will I ever be able to live a superficial life and be happy? I don't see how this is possible. I need profoundness. No I don't. Yes I do. No I don't.

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But let me add something. This is deep stuff. I don't spend my time thinking about the deep stuff, it's no fun. So I do fun things and life is fine. It's when I start dwelling on "how I really feel deep down" that it gets ugly. Better to stay superficial. But this doesn't ring right for me, but you see this is it: I always thought life was profound, but now, without God, it has become so superficial, and I wonder: will I ever be able to live a superficial life and be happy? I don't see how this is possible. I need profoundness. No I don't. Yes I do. No I don't.

 

Deny, you're honesty blows me out the door! I say...let it all out.woohoo.gif Half the godamn time, we keep how we are feeling locked deep inside us because if we spoke the truth people would keel over!!! Pride often holds me back, because if I was honest about some certain things...it might make dear sweet Margee look crazy!! (and so she is!! wink.png )

 

All I can say right now, is thank you for that honest reply. I don't think you're evil or destuctive....... I just see someone who is being totally honest about how disapointing and frustrating life can be in all kinds of 'areas'...... Sometimes, ya just get tired and want to go up in the woods by yourself....I understand that feeling!!

 

So how can we find the way to be nice and pretty to the world and still be happy inside ourselves? How do we do the great performance of being 'responsible' ... and still be happy within ourselves?

 

I do find that the more I admit to myself that, 'this is it'... the more acceptance I have of it.......and I do find myself wanting so much to make the best of this life... I am really trying...... to be OK with the superficial life..... )

 

Maybe, getting honest with what we are really feeling, helps a little? Wendyshrug.gif

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So how can we find the way to be nice and pretty to the world and still be happy inside ourselves? How do we do the great performance of being 'responsible' ... and still be happy within ourselves?

 

I think I have found what might be the root cause of all this. What makes a loving person turn into a not so loving person? Can the "thing" that makes us love break down? I started a new thread because I think we're shifting to a new topic. Here is the link: The Love Machine Is Broken

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