midniterider Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi, I am new here and didnt know where I should put this.. I believe in Jesus, and I am totally against religion. I am not here to judge or condem. I am here because I am wanting to understand. I am searching. My pastor was talking tonight and said two main keys to seeing miracles are salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit, and talked about some other stuff. I asked him some questions and told him that i signed up here and why. What he said made me start wondering about everyone here and wondered how many people actually said "the sinners prayer" and how many were baptized in the Holy Spirit. Searching for more souls to give to jesus is what you are searching for, imho. So how do you define this religion you are against? Baptism and doing the sinner's prayer seem like religious rituals to me. Millions of religious jesus believers have done that stuff. Someone who is totally against religion probably would not believe in Jesus or any other deity, would not be listening to pastors and definitely not going to church. I used to believe in jesus. I said the sinner's prayer. I was baptized in water and what people called the holy spirit. Pentecostal for 10 years. But I got tired of the fear and guilt and said fuck it. I would rather not be told how to think or what to think and what not to think. Church denizens will tell you what god is thinking and what he wants for you. Christianity is a mind prison and will seek to entrap your money eventually. But enjoy your jesus. And I will enjoy my own personal beliefs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi, I am new here and didnt know where I should put this.. I believe in Jesus, and I am totally against religion. I am not here to judge or condem. I am here because I am wanting to understand. I am searching. My pastor was talking tonight and said two main keys to seeing miracles are salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit, and talked about some other stuff. I asked him some questions and told him that i signed up here and why. What he said made me start wondering about everyone here and wondered how many people actually said "the sinners prayer" and how many were baptized in the Holy Spirit. Oh yay, another bright-eyed True Christian charging in to try to tell us all how our deconversions were totally invalid. Dear GOD I will be one happy camper when this "oh no it's not a mean ol' RELIGION" fad dies an ignoble death. VIP, you ask if people have said the right incantations and showed the right magical effects. You have a pastor, which implies a hierarchical group. And you definitely follow in lockstep what fundagelical churches preach about those who leave your faith. If you think you're not in a religion, I wonder what else you're too blind to see. FWIW, I did the sinner's prayer several times--Catholics and Protestants have their own spin on it. Many denominations regard speaking in tongues as Satanic (weird how the immutable holy word of God can say totally different things to different readers, ain't it?), but I got you covered there, too. And as others have said, it's crazy easy to speak in tongues once you learn how. I did it at a party once with a hypnotist who wanted me to give an interview in a made-up language. He had no idea what he had in store! I was shocked at how easily it flowed out of me. I'd been out of church almost a decade by then, and the interview was about something salacious, so I doubt it was God's spirit moving. People told me afterward that they were in awe of how natural I sounded. Well, of course it sounded natural. I'd had eight years of practice in glossalalia! Now your turn: What are you really here for? After all, if it was just to gain insight there is an entire forum of testimonies you could have read. It would not take long to discover that almost every extimony is from someone who did all the right rituals and incantations and who desperately wanted it all to be true. But you didn't read those, or you would not have even started such a ridiculous, judgmental poll or shown such presumption in your start post. I'm guessing that you, sir, are lying. You aren't "searching" for anything but missionary work. Prove me wrong. For once I'd love to be wrong where a Christian is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 If you're so against religion, then why do you have a pastor? Why do you refer to the person as "my pastor?" No. it seems to me you're all "et up" with religion. I think a person can have a strong innate sense of God and despise religion OB. I was that way for a long time. Couldn't stand televangelists....send 5 bucks and we will pray for you. Still don't much care for that type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I believe in Jesus, and I am totally against religion. If you're so against religion, then why do you have a pastor? Why do you refer to the person as "my pastor?" No. it seems to me you're all "et up" with religion. I think a person can have a strong innate sense of God and despise religion OB. I was that way for a long time. Couldn't stand televangelists....send 5 bucks and we will pray for you. Still don't much care for that type. I am really tired of xians using yet more head-up-their-ass reasoning to claim that xianity is not a religion. Religion: The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods. (source: Google "define:" search) This definition is representative and reflects usage and meaning of "religion" in the English language. I think one would be hard pressed to find a christian who does not claim to believe in or worship "a personal God," a "superhuman controlling power." What xians who claim that xianity is not a religion have done is framed the definition as follows: "The belief in and worship of a false or non-existent superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods." Since they purport to worship the One True GodTM they contend that xianity does not qualify as a religion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hi, I am new here and didnt know where I should put this.. I believe in Jesus, and I am totally against religion. Then I assume you are independent of any church? I am not here to judge or condem. I am here because I am wanting to understand. I am searching. So far then from the answers you've been given, that 15, the vast majority in your poll all said they have prayed the sinners prayer and had what the Charismatics in their view is the the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and yet do not see things the way you do, what is this doing for you understanding? My pastor was talking tonight and said two main keys to seeing miracles are salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit, and talked about some other stuff. That's interesting! You should ask him why miracles are meant to convince people Jesus is the messiah than, if seeing miracles requires you to believe already! Does this make sense? Many times the Bible says that people saw the miracles and believed as a result of them. But your pastor is saying you need to be a true believer in order to see these supposed miracles that are apparently hidden from unbelievers? How is this Biblical? Frankly I find the whole miracles business to be a cheap trick to get people to follow a spiritual salesmen. I believe spirituality is infinitely deeper than parlor tricks to get someone to "believe". Why do you need to see them? And even more worrisome to you it should be asked, why does your pastor? If you would like some good investigation into the way you understand and believe about the things you are being told are true, than invite your pastor in here for a discussion. That exchange would be quite revealing to you I'm sure. If you want to hear both sides, than bring in a current pastor with former ones. We have several on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I had a very deep conversion experience, I later "received the Baptism" and spoke in tongues, witnessed, was on fire for the Lord. After 9 or 10 years the contradictions became too apparent to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 If you're so against religion, then why do you have a pastor? Why do you refer to the person as "my pastor?" No. it seems to me you're all "et up" with religion. I think a person can have a strong innate sense of God and despise religion OB. I was that way for a long time. Couldn't stand televangelists....send 5 bucks and we will pray for you. Still don't much care for that type. I think the problem with religion goes deeper than the extreme flim-flam men on TV. They are but a symptom with a ready audience at hand. Religion is a double-edged sword. It can offer some positive elements such as community and structures of support for those on a spiritual path, but the flip side of it is it can become God itself, which it is for 99% of believers. Why else would someone hate in the name of God? God and their religion are one and the same, and the poison of their fruit exposes that to the world. Better to be an unbeliever than a hypocrite. Wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 VIP, I guarantee you that at some point your pastor or some other leader will tell you to 1. cut yourself off from non-christians, and 2. that you avoid reading non-christian authors. How will you feel about this? You are open-minded enough to come here, which i think is a good thing. But at some point they will basically tell you to close yourself off from opposing views. I know, because this is what happened to me, I ended up in a bubble, and it took me years to find my way back to reality again. I think any belief system that makes you insulate yourself and retreat into a bubble can't possibly represent the truth. You should decide now how you plan to deal with this when it eventually arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think we have a troll who just wants to stir the pudding. So far no response from VIP, the mind numbed, sanctimonious puddin' stick! And I am still too angry to be civil about losing my faith....as if I WANTED to feel NOTHING in church at Christmas with all my fundy family.....as if I WANTED to feel empty when a Christian relative died suddenly......as if I like feeling alone in a culture where the first thing someone asks you is "where do you go to church?".....LOSING MY FAITH WAS NOT A CHOICE!!!!!!! This VIP troll just wants to come in here, not understand a THING about what we are GENUINELY STRUGGLING WITH and wave a BIBLE over us, lay hands on and "really" save us. PISS> OFF> Why do they even let these TROLLS in here to piss their holy water on our pain....????? ***See? Stil too angry to be civil*** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 What do you think of my pastor? He said I should ask you. WTF IS THAT????? Is he on work release from the Jeremiah Wright Hate Speech Asylum??? ***"you fucking nincomfuckingpoop" best line of the whole thing!!**** I wet my drawers.....thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think we have a troll who just wants to stir the pudding. So far no response from VIP, the mind numbed, sanctimonious puddin' stick! And I am still too angry to be civil about losing my faith....as if I WANTED to feel NOTHING in church at Christmas with all my fundy family.....as if I WANTED to feel empty when a Christian relative died suddenly......as if I like feeling alone in a culture where the first thing someone asks you is "where do you go to church?".....LOSING MY FAITH WAS NOT A CHOICE!!!!!!! This VIP troll just wants to come in here, not understand a THING about what we are GENUINELY STRUGGLING WITH and wave a BIBLE over us, lay hands on and "really" save us. PISS> OFF> Why do they even let these TROLLS in here to piss their holy water on our pain....????? ***See? Stil too angry to be civil*** Try not to be so sure this person is a troll. Out of the hundreds of times I heard people accused of being that, less than a handful ever actually are. I just read this comment on her profile to the question "about me": "I am confused right now, seeking answers and understanding..." I see that question in the opening post of her topic as someone looking for a sincere understanding. I think they deserve a sincere answer. What they do with that is their process. I sense in hers that this question came up for her for a reason. What I get is she heard her pastor say this line of nonsense and it didn't smell right to her, that you have to first believe to see miracles. It's somewhat obvious the sort of snake-oil salesmen approach to that, that you must first believe in order to see God. Anyone who already believes something will see what they want to see to validate that belief. It's called confirmation bias. So what does she do after hearing that? To her incredible credit, she investigates it out herself firsthand, not taking his word for it, but coming straight to those who actually experienced and did the two things he said were necessary in order to "get it", so to speak. Here. Us. Those with experience. And our answer to her about what her pastor said? It's a load of malarkey. Her instincts were right. He's full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I was baptized in the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, went to church two or three times a week and said the sinners prayer (multiple times), this proves nothing. I can still speak in tongues anytime, so what. I don't think the OP was meant to be rude or disrespectful, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I genuinely hope I was wrong about OP. If she's genuinely questioning, then hey, OP, c'mon back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse77 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Before I walked away from church, I too said of myself that I hated religion but believed in God. I hated the hypocrisy, the apparent carte blanche that the pastors and ministers had to say what they wanted, true or not, from the pulpit with no accountability to anyone. The bible told me that Jesus said that Christians would be known by their love for one another. I took this to mean that they would be the most caring and compassionate individuals you'd ever seen. I strove to be one. Funny thing is, many of the other people in my church circles only loved you on Sunday at church, and were something else the rest of the week. They told me God was love and that we were children of that love. But that isn't what I experienced ..... and it made me question what they were feeding us. I went to conferences where well known speakers or televangelists were preaching, and it seemed the more wealthy and well known they were, the more twisted their spin on the word of God became. Oh and the prophecies made that never came true. I had devoted my life to God and church, to the extreme that I was no longer a good wife or mother. It isn't much wonder that my ex husband decided to leave for someone else that WASN'T a Christian. He had had enough of the pressure to conform, the guilt trips and the hypocrisy of it all. I have to admit, I am truly ashamed of some of the things I did and said, all in the name of being a 'true' Christian. I am still sorting out my head and trying to see my former attitudes through the eyes of the loved ones who had to live with my zealotry. Thankfully, most have accepted my honest attempts at reconciliation. Many of us have been sincere, bible thumping, tongue talking, church going, saved, on fire for Jesus believers. And now we don't believe as we once did. When the positions of authority that pastors have are used and abused to their own benefit but at the expense of the people they are supposed to support and shepherd, this is no longer a system I can tolerate. Any time you try to coerce or manipulate someone and their emotions to keep them in subjugation to you or your ideals, free will goes out the window. It's brainwashing, plain and simple. I gave up too many years of my life being blinded by guilt and fear that I was not towing the line in church, never sure of my position with God. Pardon my vernacular here, but I was tired of the mindf*ck and walked away. Due to the practice of shunning, I didn't have to worry about them trying to persuade me to come back, lol. Ask what you will here, VIP. We will share what we have to offer in terms of experience and the wisdom gained from it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Muse - Just wanted to say *HUGS* because oh my gosh that is just awful, what you went through. And it's absolutely true (for me at least) about the mindfuckery that pervades that horrible, archaic religion. I wonder if churches that practice shunning will extinct themselves through sheer stubbornness in time, or if they'll realize how stupid that idea is compared to other churches who "work" on reconverting their lost sheep? Ah well, I'll leave that up to the philosophers. At least the practice made it easier to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse77 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Thanks for the hugs Akheia I have to say it was a pretty dark and lonely period of time in my life, but I'm feeling much better now, lol. The thing that burns me the most is getting so caught up in it that the reality that you are living is almost not even seen anymore, it is all filtered through the 'conditioning' received at church. In trying to be more spiritual, I got into some funky stuff, I gotta say........ learned to walk the walk and talk the talk, and for what? To impress everyone else that was doing the same thing. No one was really 'real'. And losing one's self to that is just stupidity. I've got my own life back and I'm a pretty happy person these days. I don't have all the answers I want, but I'm ok with it. At least I am not living a life of phoniness anymore....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Yeah its amazing how well we humans are at filtering things the way we want to see them. I walked for many years with the blinders on and thought I was happy about it. Never could understand why children were born with things such as deformities or mental disorders but just assumed that god has a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Been there, done that, forced into it by an abusive ex. Much better off now without him... or Him, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DollarBill Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I believe in Jesus, and I am totally against religion. Oh, right, it's not a religion, it's a ree-lay-shun-ship! We've all heard that before, believe it or not. So do the results of your little poll surprise you? Did you perhaps post here thinking that the reason we are "ex" christians is that we were never "real" christians? Did you perhaps think that the lynchpin to all this is that we had simply never asked jesus into our hearts? Were you perhaps hoping to entreat us to do so, to make see the error of our ways? Here's the facts: The people on this site come from all different christian backgrounds but we were mostly fundamentalists. And most of us were at one time really into it. Like went on mission trips and played on the worship team into it. If you're truly not here to judge then you must accept it at face value when I tell you that at one time in my life I loved and trusted jesus and when I prayed the "sinners prayer" I MEANT IT. When I rededicated my life to christ I MEANT IT. Over and over again I prayed and I begged god to remove those lingering doubts and each of those times I MEANT IT. Sweetheart, you ain't the first to try and "reach us", you ain't gonna be the last. You've only made one post but so far your attempt has been more respectful than most, I'll give you that. Stick around if you want some honest discussion. We don't bite. Er, well, if you're an ass, then we bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 The dopey OP made ONE post, on March 22. I don't think he/she/it is coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DollarBill Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Oops, somehow read that as 10/22, probably shouldn't have bothered. Damn...with our eternal souls hanging in the balance these halfhearted snipe-and-run attempts are disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Seems to me that most pastors do NOT even believe in the holy spirit, because if they did then they might allow more freedom to the members to make their own choices about what the bible teaches. Everyone knows that most church members can't just "go where the holy spirit" might lead them as they are tied into the particular brand of christianity. They might feel god leading them one way, but the pastor tells them otherwise....so...where is the supposed holy spirit to lead the believers??? Doesn't the new testament talk of how all believers are "priests & kings...." ? My xpastor brought up that verse to make everyone feel "free" & special when the reality was & everyone knew it - it was bullshit that the only thing that mattered was the doctrines & pronouncements taught by the king...I mean, pastor. So many pastors really don't believe their own supposed holy book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I did not answer the poll because I did not see options for the brand of xianity I was in. I will say that I accepted Jesus because I thought I HAD to in order for God to love me. I was taught that God loved me & gave Jesus so the least I could do to show my love to him was to obey the commandment to be baptised. I just wanted God to LOVE me. That is the only reason I did it & I was as sincere as could be. In the brand of xianity I escaped, it was taught you would receive the holy spirit in a special way only AFTER you were baptised. And if you were previously baptised in another church or stripe of xianity that baptism didn't count unless it was done by one of THEIR preachers/pastors. I gave my LIFE to try to please god & be the best christian that I possibly could. It was devastating to realize it was all a sham....at least I escaped & can live the rest of my life free of the chains of bible religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 NeverAgainV, You said: "I gave my LIFE to try to please god & be the best christian that I possibly could. It was devastating to realize it was all a sham....at least I escaped & can live the rest of my life free of the chains of bible religion." Amen (pun intended)! That reminded me of what I was thinking about just the other day. I was remembering a Mac Davis song from the seventies called "Rock and Roll I Gave You Some of the Best Years of My Life" or something like that, and realizing that I gave my best years to Jesus. The only difference is that I still like Rock and Roll. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 NeverAgainV, You said: "I gave my LIFE to try to please god & be the best christian that I possibly could. It was devastating to realize it was all a sham....at least I escaped & can live the rest of my life free of the chains of bible religion." Amen (pun intended)! That reminded me of what I was thinking about just the other day. I was remembering a Mac Davis song from the seventies called "Rock and Roll I Gave You Some of the Best Years of My Life" or something like that, and realizing that I gave my best years to Jesus. The only difference is that I still like Rock and Roll. I get angry at myself sometimes for the sacrifices I made for bullshit. I really laid my life on the line & the other believers I realized would NOT do the same thing for me or my family. It all seemed to superficial as time went on.Yeah...I gave my best years to Jeebus from 24 years old to 43 years old...oh well...can't go back. The good thing is that at least we wisened up. Some folks die in it...then their kids carry it on to infect another generation with superstitions, hate & fear. UGH. Yaay for us for getting out of that web. Hey...I'm an ex Michigander, lived their for 11 years...back in Illinois now. PM me we might know some of the same folks..ya never know. PS LOVE your name....duderonomy... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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