My Father Is Becoming A Pastor

[freeasabird]

Your father sounds like my father in law, and my wife won't even speak to him.

[sarahinprogress]

.

You need to get out, no matter how difficult, and I really would consider moving far far away in truth. His attempts to dominate your life and bring you back in may never stop. the ideology he follows is pure poison. I can see that in some ways the furniture of your mind is still quite coloured by the theology.

Yes...Well, once next year rolls around "far far away" will be taken out of my hands as my parents are moving to the other side of the country. But yes, my mind is VERY colored by the theology i was raised on, and that very very hard for me.

It seems like ANYTHING I say, my father has an answer. He outtalks and out logics me, and turns my words around. I feel very confused. *sigh*

 

Your father sounds like my father in law, and my wife won't even speak to him.

 

Yes, that's what im afraid of. I WANT to have a relationship with my father, but at the same time, he IS damaging me. I told him this last night during the "spiritual intervention" and he turned it around on me and said *I* am damaging him. I want to be able to talk to him and have him in my life...but I can't if he wont have me in his, right?

[mymistake]

Yes...Well, once next year rolls around "far far away" will be taken out of my hands as my parents are moving to the other side of the country. But yes, my mind is VERY colored by the theology i was raised on, and that very very hard for me.

It seems like ANYTHING I say, my father has an answer. He outtalks and out logics me, and turns my words around. I feel very confused. *sigh*

 

Maybe what he does is out fallacy you. He is a preacher - right? Preachers are not known for using good logic. If they did they wouldn't have anything to preach.

 

 

Yes, that's what im afraid of. I WANT to have a relationship with my father, but at the same time, he IS damaging me. I told him this last night during the "spiritual intervention" and he turned it around on me and said *I* am damaging him. I want to be able to talk to him and have him in my life...but I can't if he wont have me in his, right?

 

Abused kids are like this. Can't help but love your parents because it's programed into you and you can't help it. Maybe after you have had some distance you will gain some perspective. Then you might feel some anger. You can let that pass and move past it in time. Give it ten years or so. Maybe by then he will lose his religion or gain some insight or desperately want to meet his grandkids. When I was your age I thought I could never have patched things up with my father. But things have a way of improving with time.

[kclark]

Hi Duckiegirl, welcome to Ex-C.

 

Sorry to hear about the whole situation with your dad. That really sucks. Even though it's hard, it probably is best right now that you try to distance yourself from him, at least until you feel strong enough not to be affected by what seem like his emotional manipulations. I know you say money is tight right and you haven't been to find a job, so I'm not sure what else you could do that hasn't already been suggested.

 

I think the most important thing to remember is that you aren't responsible for your dad's happiness. It may sound harsh, and believe me it's something I've struggled/struggle with, but it's true. You have to be you and live your life, open and honestly, the same way everyone else around you does. Because you deserve it.

[Akheia]

God, this is awful. I'm just heartsick for you, but furious at the same time at the abuse you are suffering. Your father is abusing you. He is holding the very roof over your head, the care he as a parent should be giving his child with no conditions, as a hostage. Even by his own measurement of ownership, he's failing: if indeed he owns your body, then that implies a huge level of responsibility for the care of his chattel's well-being. His behavior is monstrous.

 

But you have options. Lying is one. He no longer deserves your honesty. You are now a hostage, and the terrorist threatening you deserves nothing. You need feel no guilt for doing what you must to survive.

 

If you don't want that route, then contact an abuse hotline--you won't be the first woman forced to flee with no resources. Your own therapist can possibly help you find resources, too. The Coast Guard is a good idea; since it's DOT and not DOD, their requirements might not be as strict. Plus they go to Antarctica, which is all kinds of neat. If nothing else, abuse the hell out of student loans and get a career at a community college. Those guys don't care what you use them on as long as you are in school.

 

Careful about the shacking up thing, is all I'd say. I got married way too young after my own abuse, and it caused me a whole lot of drama. It wasn't till I'd lived on my own that I really figured myself out. But if that is the only option, again, survival first.

 

Absolutely rooting for you. Good luck.

[blackpudd1n]

God, this is awful. I'm just heartsick for you, but furious at the same time at the abuse you are suffering. Your father is abusing you. He is holding the very roof over your head, the care he as a parent should be giving his child with no conditions, as a hostage. Even by his own measurement of ownership, he's failing: if indeed he owns your body, then that implies a huge level of responsibility for the care of his chattel's well-being. His behavior is monstrous.

 

You'd be surprised the lengths these sort of people will go to. When I was 15, my biological mother gave me an ultimatum- come home, or she and my sister were going to move five hours away. She even had the gall to come into my work and do it. I looked her in the eye, and said, "okay, bye". She didn't take me seriously, and went ahead with the move. I didn't budge.

 

If DuckieGirl's living conditions are anything like my own were, she won't be able to stay under that roof. Her life will be a living hell. He will exert control over every last thing she does.

 

DuckieGirl, I fully support Akheia's suggestion that you call a women's support line, or a women's refuge. This is domestic violence that you are experiencing, and you need to get away from it. Domestic violence comes in many forms- it is not just physical abuse, and it is not just romantic partners that perpetrate it. Men, women, and family members can all be victims and perpetrators of domestic violence. The important thing is to get support, and get an exit plan in place, so that you can leave safely and with minimum confrontation or distress to yourself.

 

I am thinking of you.

[sarahinprogress]

Wow....i guess i never thought that I am being abused.

I always just thought of it as my father's brand of love, how he's always been.

I mean...ive seen him cry as he tells me these things....it DOES hurt him...

 

>_<

[mymistake]

Wow....i guess i never thought that I am being abused.

I always just thought of it as my father's brand of love, how he's always been.

I mean...ive seen him cry as he tells me these things....it DOES hurt him...

 

>_<

 

My dad's favorite lines was "Diz iz gonna hurt me more dan it will hurt you!" He always said it right before he went ape. From what you say about your father it sounds like he has a few problems with reality as well. Well if something does more harm to you than good it is abuse. Abuse can be verbal. It can be emotional. It can be an idea that gets inside your head and makes it hard for you to make good choices. Don't feel guilty if you have to protect yourself.

[blackpudd1n]

Wow....i guess i never thought that I am being abused.

I always just thought of it as my father's brand of love, how he's always been.

I mean...ive seen him cry as he tells me these things....it DOES hurt him...

 

>_<

 

I spent a couple of years in foster care as a teenager, and one thing I learned and observed, is that the hardest bond of all to break is that between a parent and its child. It doesn't matter how bad conditions were at home, how bad the abuse or neglect was, when mum or dad say come home, the kids would find a way to create a situation or just run away and go back. Often the situations that would be created would be highly damaging to the foster parents or family; allegations of sexual or physical abuse or the like. The allegations would always have to be taken seriously and investigated, causing much stress on the family, as, unfortunately, there were plenty of instances when the allegations were true.

 

For myself, I always thought the abuse was perfectly normal. I thought everyone got bashed around the head by their parents, and had every last thing they did controlled. I never questioned it, until I was 13, and I was genuinely surprised that one of my friends didn't get treated like that, and that she was absolutely horrified at what I was experiencing. I just thought it was normal, that I deserved it, and that it was all my fault.

 

So how you feel is a perfectly normal response to being abused. Remember, abuse comes in many forms, but it has the same impact on the person. The important thing to remember is that you don't have to put up with it, and you can take back control over your life. Don't feel guilty; you've done nothing wrong.

 

Thinking of you,

 

love Pudd

[Akheia]

I had a similar experience to Pudd's--my abuse was emotional after Dad learned that the physical stuff would land him in prison again. I thought this was all pretty normal, till I began making non-military friends in high school and began to realize just how bizarre my home life was in comparison. It was like being Wednesday Addams among a bunch of Camp Chippewa girls! But that emotional abuse might just hurt even worse. I don't think Dad genuinely enjoyed crushing the spirits of two spirited young women in his care. But his being broken doesn't invalidate the abuse my sister and I suffered. Your dad may cry when he abuses you, but he still doesn't have the coping mechanisms in place to actually do anything but abuse you. The important take-away I'd offer is this: you have the power of the immortal "NO" within you. You are not property. You are not a punching bag for his insecurities and ambitions. You are not a frightened child huddling under the gaze of some crusty, misogynistic inquisitors. They want to inquisit you? Ha! They're the ones who owe YOU an explanation for how you've been fucked up by their fake, controlling religion.

 

People figure their shit out when push comes to shove. And here you are. You've got resources you can't even imagine right now. You're 25. You're an adult. You may not feel like it much, but you're capable and competent, and it is my hope that in 10 years you will look back at this episode as the very beginning of your journey to independence.

[raoul]

My heart goes out to you over your anguish. Perhaps this word may help - I hope so. The old saying that you can pick your friends but are stuck with family is applicable in so many ways. I know how hurtful it is when a person is tossed aside by a parent for the craziest reasons - none of which are justified. Religion expecially makes people act so irrationally on all levels. But regardless of your father's opinion or behavior towards you, it has NO relation or bearing on what you really are and will become (since we're all growing as we get older). That statement 'question everything' hit me like a ton of bricks. Know why? I actually said those very words to a group of teens I was teaching at a Sunday school class so long ago when I was involved in the 'organization' as I call it. I told them this because as you probably already know, teens are the most susceptible to being lured into cults or other unsavory groups. Besides, I think Socrates was the one who'd said those wise words centuries ago.

 

As you continue on through life you may learn, as I had to do over 50 years ago, that there are people that will come into your life that will become as close or even closer than some family members of yours. I know this for a fact because it has happened to me. I was rejected not only by a biological father but the mother as well. I won't go into any details about this but let's just say it caused a horrific childhood that too me years to unload (psychologically). Once I threw off the mantle or chains of 'family' ties I was able to move on and concentrate on the only family I care about - my wife and kids and a few good friends.

 

I hope these pitiful few words have helped.

[MrsRoper]

Duckie,

 

Your Dad is Addicted to Religion, and your Mom is enabling him. With his black and white thinking, chances are he has a personality disorder to boot. A few years ago, my Uncle gave me the best advice ever, he said, "Your problem is you are trying to use reason and logic with people who don't use reason and logic." I now work hard not to make that mistake.

 

I am grateful your father isn't physically abusing you, but make no mistake he is emotionally abusing you. You need to work every day to create a plan to get away from your family. And have very limited contact with them until you learn how to create healthy adult boundaries & demand they are respected from those who say they love you. Remember, love FEELS like love.

 

Get a student loan for this nursing program if that is what you want to do. Find a part time job on or around campus. Look for opportunities to rent housing with other students close to public transportation. Reach out to close friends you can trust to help you find work & housing. Networking can be key. Go to campus and see what jobs are posted.

 

Also, I thought of you this morning when I read this: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-q-a-nate-phelps-20120324,0,4407066.story

 

This guy got away from a Calvinist monster, I hope it gives you some courage.

 

Good luck & keep coming here for support.

 

d

[sarahinprogress]

 

Don't feel guilty; you've done nothing wrong.

 

Thinking of you,

 

love Pudd

 

Thank you. I'm feeling so much right now I can't even parse it. I'm so thankful that you all are actually out there telling me it's OK to be angry, hurt, frustrated.

 

Thank everyone else that commented since I last posted as well, I'm on my phone so it won't let me multiquote, but I AM VERY grateful.

 

I asked my boyfriend last night of he thought I was being abused and he said, "ya. It's pretty bad."

 

I guess when you're so close to something you where all sorts of protection and shields...

 

I do know that I WILL be looking for another part time job, and I will do whatever it takes to move out of here - I really can't like like this anymore.

[sarahinprogress]

 

 

Also, I thought of you this morning when I read this: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-q-a-nate-phelps-20120324,0,4407066.story

 

 

 

Thankyouthankyouthankyou for this.

 

While my father is not nearly as bad OR mentally unstable as this guy - he would never call someone a fag or picket a funeral - I AM requires to obey him.

 

 

One of the things that makes me the most crazy is al this "be like the Bereans" shit.

 

They want me to question what I'm being told but ONLY within the bible, and if I look OUTSIDE ofte bible it's "exposure." as though knowledge is some sort of infection.

 

 

I tried to tell my mom tere are Christ figures predatong christ and she told me no, of course there aren't.

 

 

.....

[norton65ca]

Hi Duckiegirl,

You're going through the process of coming out of a religious cult. If there was something we could define as a normal christian church (which there isn't really) the "church" your parents are involved with is very far removed from that fictitious norm. The extreme viewpoints you have told us of indicate this "church" is a classic case of a cult, with the same typical behaviour and tactics. Inability to allow the "followers" to expose themselves to outside sources of knowledge is a sign of this. The street church I was involved with never went quite that far but I did know other folks who attended churches in our area that adhered to this kind of thinking. Believers are almost always discouraged from looking outside the box but to give it a term or buzzword like "exposure" is pretty scary stuff to me now. Exposure to what? The truth? I always thought while I was "inside" that it was odd how so many christians were actually afraid to read philosophy or consider other faiths teachings in order to learn... Could it be that the faith is actually not all that strong after all and unable to handle this "exposure"? If you have to be CS Lewis in order to mount some sort of defense against the enemies wiles, then what chance have the rest of us ordinary not-so-smart folks got? I thought it particularly weird that christianity seemed so often to be a bunch of smug self righteous people sitting in carefully guarded towers, occasionally flinging tracts out of the windows to the crowds outside, or occasionally mounting adventurous forays into "The World" in order to evangelize. And the evangelism was so often insincere, only motivated by the need to convert, not by genuine concern or care for the person being evangelized.

[sarahinprogress]

 

 

yes!! Or like my father used to tell me non-believers get angry when you ask them about god because they feel GUILTY. I never realized what a load of crap that was until he tried to tell ME I was saying I didn't believe in the Christian god because if I did I'd have to admit I was wrong and give into the guilt.

 

But I DON'T FEEL GUILTY. I feel frustrated and hurt and, yes, I feel angry. But not because of god or religion, but because of how his go and his "relationship" is causing him to treat me!

 

 

When I went to highschool we called it the "Calvary Bubble."

 

I guess I never wanted to admit that such a widely spread and believed religion could be wrong.

 

Could be a cult.

 

[sarahinprogress]

 

 

yes!! Or like my father used to tell me non-believers get angry when you ask them about god because they feel GUILTY. I never realized what a load of crap that was until he tried to tell ME I was saying I didn't believe in the Christian god because if I did I'd have to admit I was wrong and give into the guilt.

 

But I DON'T FEEL GUILTY. I feel frustrated and hurt and, yes, I feel angry. But not because of god or religion, but because of how his go and his "relationship" is causing him to treat me!

 

 

When I went to highschool we called it the "Calvary Bubble."

 

I guess I never wanted to admit that such a widely spread and believed religion could be wrong.

 

Could be a cult.

 

[LivingLife]

Duckie I am glad to see you have found courage and a home here. The guilt and fear is what of course are the main tenets of the religious. W/o either they have no case so to speak.

 

While you are having sex outside of marriage, he will use that against you to guilt you. Like I said before, you are a 25 yo woman and you were likely a woman long before that. Strictly speaking, if your dad follows the bible to the tee, you should be stoned (not in the nice way ) b/c you are no longer are a V.

 

As someone already said, there is nothing to feel guilty of and nothing to fear. It is right to feel anger and betrayal by your dad.

 

Be strong, you are a special person, don't forget that.

[Denyoz]

Hi Duckiegirl,

 

Moving out of there will be the best thing that has ever happened to you. I moved out of my parent's house when I was 19. My oldest daughter moved out of my house when she was 19, my son moved out when he was 17. You're overdue, I think. You don't need this abusive man in your life, he's not acting like a loving father, so don't feel guiltly if you don't treat him like one. After all, he started it. He's in charge, he created this situation, not you.

 

Pack your bags, walk out, don't even tell them you're leaving they will probably try to stop you or make you feel extremely guiltly. If you feel the need to cut yourself, cut the umbilical cord that attaches you to your parents and fly away, be free! Today is gonna be a changing day in your life, like Dr. Phil would say. Speaking of which, if all else fails, send him a copy of this thread and he will probably want you as a guest on his show (and pay your lodging), cause your story is really... I mean... I can't even find a word, but there is nothing normal about it, the kind of thing I would expect to see on the Dr. Phil Show. Good luck! I'd pray for you but I don't pray, I'm sure you understand

 

Take care,

Denyoz

[hereticzero]

I am a preacher's kid for over 50 years now. That's all I've ever known is being a preacher's kid. if you can march to the drum of the church and stay in step you will do well. If you march to a different beat you will butt heads with your father and the church every time you turn around. Moving out is the best thing to do and it is a painful choice. Getting thrown out is the result of someone without a spine to rationalize for themselves the correct choice to make. There are many agencies available to help a young woman move into housing, pay utilities, get groceries, and go to school. If you need help going to school there is county voc rehab for the state in which you live that may be able to help--ask at college how to contact voc rehab, there is a counselor on campus--I did almost five years in college on county voc rehab. If you live with your boyfriend DO NOT share bank accounts. I found out long ago, I get along with my family better at a distance. We get together during holidays and have a nice visit. It is not so nice when I have to live with them because then they expect me to follow their lifestyle which is not my way of living. I have had to live at home three times in my life and the third time was the last time. I just got too old to deal with people telling me how to live and when I was going to church. You are over 21. If your parents do not want you at home, don't act like it is the end of the world but act like it is a beginning of a new life. Do what makes you happy. Live it like there is no tomorrow. La vida loca! Don't live your life depressed because of your parents. If religion is all they have together, they won't last together forever. Every day is a new adventure when you are on your own. Have fun with it. Set your rules for your house and your life. If your parents want to be part of your life then they have to accept your life or they can stay home and be depressed. Go dancing. Party! Did I mention have fun with your new life? Have fun!

[sarahinprogress]

There are many agencies available to help a young woman move into housing, pay utilities, get groceries, and go to school. If you need help going to school there is county voc rehab for the state in which you live that may be able to help--ask at college how to contact voc rehab, there is a counselor on campus--I did almost five years in college on county voc rehab.

You are over 21. If your parents do not want you at home, don't act like it is the end of the world but act like it is a beginning of a new life. Do what makes you happy. Live it like there is no tomorrow. La vida loca! Don't live your life depressed because of your parents. If religion is all they have together, they won't last together forever.

 

Thank you! firstly, thank you for the information about housing and assitance, i will definitely check that out.

Secondly, thats one of the things im worried about. My parents have never lived alone, they lived with my fathers mother when they were first together, then my mothers mother, and then with me. Im worried they will move to S. dakota, and they'll fall apart. Not worried so much about my father as my mother. She didnt even really want to go in the first place, and its only in the last year or so that "god changed her heart" and made her willing to support my father in this move.

Moving out of there will be the best thing that has ever happened to you. I moved out of my parent's house when I was 19. My oldest daughter moved out of my house when she was 19, my son moved out when he was 17. You're overdue, I think. You don't need this abusive man in your life, he's not acting like a loving father, so don't feel guiltly if you don't treat him like one. After all, he started it. He's in charge, he created this situation, not you.

Thank you! Yes, i am long overdue to move out, and ive been agonizing over it for awhile, but now, i know, it's time for me to get out. I guess im just afraid, ive never had to DO anything on my own, and im not really sure i know how. But i guess that's the beauty of life, getting out there, trying. Failing, succeeding. And doing ON MY OWN.

And yes Im slowly accepting that it is my FATHER who is making the choices, no matter what he says about me forcing his hand. He tried to convince me that i would do the same thing in his place, if my children were "rebelling." but i told him, i would never treat my children in such away that the same situation would arise.

 

Duckie I am glad to see you have found courage and a home here. The guilt and fear is what of course are the main tenets of the religious. W/o either they have no case so to speak.

 

While you are having sex outside of marriage, he will use that against you to guilt you. Like I said before, you are a 25 yo woman and you were likely a woman long before that. Strictly speaking, if your dad follows the bible to the tee, you should be stoned (not in the nice way ) b/c you are no longer are a V.

 

As someone already said, there is nothing to feel guilty of and nothing to fear. It is right to feel anger and betrayal by your dad.

 

Be strong, you are a special person, don't forget that.

 

Thank you =)

 

This actually brings up another point of contention.

My father started telling me when i was 5 years old that men will ALWAYS say anything to have sex with you. And that no one who wanted to have sex with me could actually love me. but was just lying. I had some really fucked up trust issues, understandably, and wasn't even in a real relationship until just recently.

I didnt lose my virginity until i was 21, because i was so terrified that god would punish me by giving my an STD, making me Pregnant, etc.

 

And you know what? I dont have an std, nor have i gotten pregnant.

 

Also, my boyfriend really does love me.

 

so ha.

[blackpudd1n]

When you go out looking for various services to help you, DuckieGirl, just tell them your story, all of it. Don't hold back. You will be amazed at the level of support and help you will receive from various people and organisations. The world, and the people in it, are not as evil as christians make it out to be. A lot of people do genuinely care for others in a hard situation, and genuinely want to help, as you can see by the responses in this thread by complete strangers.

 

You're about to discover something very fulfilling in life- freedom

[electech98]

Hi Duckiegirl,

 

I thought I would chime in and tell you that you have an ally in the RCUS. I am currently a deacon in one of the RCUS churches in California. I still haven't come out as an atheist to anyone except a few trusted atheist/agnostic friends and family. My wife is the daughter of a current RCUS minister in another state. And all are very sold on being the "right type" of Christian (Reformed, Calvinistic, paedobaptistic, 24-hour 6-day literal Creationist, etc.). I do feel for you, knowing how committed these guys are who go into seminary for such a staunch, fundamentalist, Calvinistic church. It is VERY hard to reason with them, especially when their reputation / livelihood as a minister is on the line. Denominations like the RCUS appeal to certain types of people who are craving more "intellectual" Christianity rather than touchy-feely Christianity, but that is somewhat to everyone's detriment because these people are more eager to buy into the presupposition that the bible is the very literal, inerrant, inspired "Word of God", much more so than "nominal" Christians who don't care as much about it. I know, I was one myself. I joined the RCUS in 2001, and only last December I finally made my decision to stop believing in any particular god, or in any set of ancient documents by superstitious, fallible human beings who would try to pass off their perceptions of "God" as authoritative and binding on others.

 

There's a time to grow up from these "childish things". It seems you have reached that point, and are even further along in the process than I am (already letting your family know you no longer believe these things). If you can see how strongly your parents (or dad specifically) NEED to hold on to these beliefs in order to make sense of the world for themselves, it may be better in the long-run to separate from them for a while, even though it may mean a worse situation financially and relationship-wise for a while. With time, hopefully, your dad and mom would want to reestablish a relationship with you that is not based on trying to convert you back. You are an adult, and they need to respect that you make your own decisions as an adult. But normally it just takes a good amount of time before basic communications are opened up again between you all. That is one thing I'm trying to mentally brace myself for: the breakdown of most of my current relationships...even potentially the one I have with my wife. Sometimes, though, this sort of change is what weeds out your true friends from those who only liked you for a certain belief you had.

 

But again, you have an ally in the RCUS, even though it sounds like you may not be in it for too much longer. I was hoping it wouldn't go so far as an excommunication (where they advise the church members to limit their contact with you), but if they actually make you go through it, please let us know. That would also give me a good indication of what to expect when I break the news, too.

 

Keep up updated. Also, feel free to message me in case you would like more details of which church I go to, if you know my wife, etc.

 

Jeremy

[electech98]

Oh, and by the way: I also live in SoCal, so it sounds like you have a CLOSE ally in the RCUS.

[FeelHappy]

So your dad is a calvinist?

 

He should know that there are the elect and the reprobate, this isn't his call or even your call. Only god can change your heart, surely as a calvinist he believes that.

 

Did god not harden pharaoh's heart and use that to kill the first born in egypt?

 

Wasn't it god who said before they had done any good or bad that 'Jacob I've loved but Esau have I hated'.

 

Tell your dad to pray for you. That you're in a season of doubt, only god can reveal himself and change your heart, and perhaps you're not one of the elect. Have him pray to god for you to become an elect, god knows your heart so pretending to be something you're not won't work when you die.

 

I'm not sure my post really has a point, I just hate Calvinism, its so evil, the calvinist god is one of the more vile pictures of god, he creates two children and sends one to hell for no reason while saving the other for no reason. Who knows maybe if your not an "elect" your dad will see the abhorrent belief set he's wanting to be a minister in. I think realizing the plausibility of Calvinism was one of the many reasons that I lost my faith.