Replies... ?

[bornagainathiest]

Just for your information Eemaan, I've started up that thread.

In the Science vs. Religion area.

 

See you there...

 

...if you dare!

 

BAA.

[Suzy]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins

 

Orthodox Muslim theologians such as al-Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have all discussed the sensual pleasures found in Paradise. It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir,[5] and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a hasan hadith[6] from Ibn Majah,[7] wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal".[8]

 

 

HAHAHA,,,,, penis of the elected never softens. The erection is eternal,,,,,,, WTF

 

 

At least the Muslim heaven seems a bit more fun than the Christian. Well, if you are a man...

[Akheia]

Yeah, WTF do the women look forward to? Am I just going to be making sammiches for these horny old goats to snack on between deflowering their perpetu-virgins with their always-hard shafts? Or am I to be one of those poor unfortunate girls?

 

How the fuck many Muslim women are there compared to men, anyway? Do they even have the numbers to sustain a 72:1 ratio like that, or are the virgins like angels? In short, are there boy whores in heaven?

[blackpudd1n]

Yeah, WTF do the women look forward to? Am I just going to be making sammiches for these horny old goats to snack on between deflowering their perpetu-virgins with their always-hard shafts? Or am I to be one of those poor unfortunate girls?

 

How the fuck many Muslim women are there compared to men, anyway? Do they even have the numbers to sustain a 72:1 ratio like that, or are the virgins like angels? In short, are there boy whores in heaven?

 

I just finished reading Richard Dawkins' book, The God Delusion, and apparently the expected "virgins" is a mistranslation. I'll have to find the references, but I was rather stunned to read that it is not "virgins", but rather "white raisins of crystal clarity". Interesting, hey?

[♦ ficino ♦]

How can they remain perpetual virgins if they are servicing guys with perpetual hard-ons? I guess there's just perpetual blow jobs and no penetration?

[Suzy]

Christian (JayL in the "Loving Jesus" thread about other gods/semi-gods with stories similar to the Jesus story):

 

Yeah, but none of those seemed to have any impact today. Who are they? People don't seem to care. Jesus Christ is still unique.

 

 

Muslim (Eemaan in this thread):

 

If what Muhammad pbuh preached was insane ramblings, then no way would Islam be as strong as it is now, and the fastest growing religion in the world.

 

Funny.

[TortillaLips]

Islamofacist, the ONLY reason that you are a Muslim is that you were born in a Muslim family and culture. You have NO logical reason to be a Muslin, no more then be a Christian, Morman, Catholic, whatever. ALL religions are man-made and all are very, very distructive to people. You have been indoctrinated and you do not know how to believe anything else. You are no different than other 21 year olds that are catholic, christian, fill in the blanks.

 

You are in bondage, and you have been taught NEVER to question it.

[par4dcourse]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins

 

"penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal".[8]

 

 

The Elected should call their doctors after 4 hours..

[Eemaan]

You sound like a sweet young girl... you really do........ who has just been brainwashed the same as us hon. The above are the same damn excuses that christians use... but honey, you don't see that because you are brainwashed and don't know it.

 

And it also sounds like you are a true believer of your faith....And you have no intentions of giving it up. If you are a very sensitive, young girl of 21, I would leave sweetheart.... because my friends here are going to tear you and your scripture apart and you have opened yourself up to it by coming to EX-c. They have no choice but to fight you and try to make you see how silly all of this is. We do not believe that ANY scripture around the world is 'god's word', out of his mouth.

 

Run now, while you can....before you get hurt....and go read your Q'ran...

 

Sincerely, Margee

 

I don't care what they say, really. But where I want to give my views, then I will. I'm not afraid of them.... Thanks anyway

 

I'm so lifeless to be in this forum......lol why am I here........

[Eemaan]

Tell me, I will take from the nuts and bolts since i don't know a ton about the Quran.

 

Even with christianity, you supposedly have jesus appearing to 500 people if you ask 1st corithians.

 

But in islam, at least according to the Wiki article on islam

 

Muslims believe that the verses of the Qur'an were revealed to Muhammad by God through the archangel Gabriel (Jibrīl) on many occasions between 610 CE until his death on June 8, 632 CE.^[37] While Muhammad was alive, all of these revelations were written down by his companions (sahabah), although the prime method of transmission was orally through memorization.^[38]

Now tell me, which is more credible, the testimony of one, or the testimony of 500? In the case of christianity, I wouldn't even trust the 500, so why should I trust your one?

 

What wiki said is true. Both Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon them were prophets. But what do you mean by the testimony of one? And can you get all these 500 people? I mean do they have records? The final messenger came to complete the other messages including Prophet Jesus's message because it had been distorted. Because all these religions have a connection that the prophets were sent with one message, and when this message was getting blurred, so there had to be another prophet sent to complete the religion. Yes the companions of the final prophet used their memories and they passed it on to each other by written materials and memories. And since it is the final one, nothing can go missing or distorted. If you think I did not get your question, then please let me know.

 

³For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

⁴And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

⁵And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

⁶After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

⁷After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

⁸And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

⁹For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

¹⁰But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

¹¹Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

¹²Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

That is the important bit, from the king james verison of 1 corinthians 15. Paul, states that, Jesus appeared after he died to 500 people. That is unfortunately the only record. Though Paul is considered a reliable historical source according to Christian scholars and got his information directly from the remaining eleven apostles.

 

Another christian appearance of the dead jesus after he died is in the Gospel of Matthew

 

Matthew 28:16-20

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

 

The only point, here, is I reject a more validated religion (christianity). Which supposed to have miracles going on in front of multiple people. So why should I accept, a religion, who entails me to trust, the reliability and honesty of one man? That will probably always make no sense to me. So what if he is the final revelation, he can still be a liar. To me that is not something to put your soul on. One man's testimony, I might as well believe Paul when he said Jesus appeared to 500 and be a Christian again.

 

What if you were to find out that the coming of this messenger was prophesized? Both in the Christian scriptures as well as the Jews scriptures, and a few others. The Jews were also expecting a prophet, but when Muhammad pbuh came, they were dissapointed because he wasn't especially for them but for humanity. The biography of the prophet pbuh also confirms that he was to be a prophet.

[Eemaan]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins

 

Orthodox Muslim theologians such as al-Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have all discussed the sensual pleasures found in Paradise. It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir,[5] and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a hasan hadith[6] from Ibn Majah,[7] wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal".[8]

 

 

HAHAHA,,,,, penis of the elected never softens. The erection is eternal,,,,,,, WTF

 

Stupid stupid lies from wiki.... I would like to see that hadith in those words. An authentic hadith please

[Eemaan]

Eeman, you shouldn't take it personally that Ex-C members insult your religion. We pretty much insult all religions. With a few exceptions among us, we tend to think they are all full of crap, so you should expect what you inevitably will see in comments.

 

You seem nice enough. Too bad you believe that stuff, though.

 

I do know they insult all religions....and I know not to take it personally, but sometimes they make it personal.

[Eemaan]

That's BAA, Eemaan, not BBA.

 

Your loyalty to the Qu'ran is commendable, but I am not taking issue with anything from that book.

I am taking issue with the 'facts' in the the Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, which is a completely different book. The two are NOT the same.

 

The misuse of science is to be found in the Brief Guide, not the Qu'ran. So please do not try and insinuate that I am being critical of the Qu'ran, of Islam or of all Muslims. That is not so. My beef is with only those people who would manipulate and misuse scientific information for their own ends. I take the same stance with Christian Creationists who misuse science for their own ends. So please don't think that I'm singling out the Qu'ran, Islam or all Muslims for criticism. I will take issue with ANYONE who misuses science.

 

So, when I start up the thread (later this week) it will not be a challenge to the Qu'ran, to Islam or to all Muslims - it will be a challenge to the accuracy of the information displayed in the Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam. If you wish to ally yourself with this book and not the Qu'ran, that is up to you.

 

Please note that should you at any point suggest, imply, insinuate or openly state that I am critisizing or insulting the Qu'ran, Islam or all Muslims, I will remind you of this message and remind you that I am confining myself strictly to the information printed in the Brief Illustrated Guide. It will be you who will be making the link between these two books - not me. If the Qu'ran says... "He turned to the heaven when it was smoke" ...I have no problem with that. I respect the right of all Muslims to believe what they like about that book.

 

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-c.htm

 

But if the Brief Guide misuses scientific images and data to claim that there is or was smoke in outer space, then I do have a problem with that. There never was and currently isn't any smoke in outer space. I can demonstrate this scientifically. I intend to show that this is a false claim and the quotes and images used to make this claim are a blatant and dishonest misuse of scientific data. You can defend the Brief Guide if you like - that's up to you.

 

BAA.

 

Ya, sorry BAA.

 

The brief guide is not fake, it is facts. Too bad it had to use images from a school book huh? I have tried my best discussing with you, remember the mountain peg thing. Ok, I will see if I can be on that new thread you created.

[Guest Valk0010]

What if you were to find out that the coming of this messenger was prophesized? Both in the Christian scriptures as well as the Jews scriptures, and a few others. The Jews were also expecting a prophet, but when Muhammad pbuh came, they were dissapointed because he wasn't especially for them but for humanity. The biography of the prophet pbuh also confirms that he was to be a prophet.

Mohemmed, was yeah the prophet of the final revelation of god. Sure that is the nuts and bolts of what he claimed about himself. I may not know a ton about the Quran, but I at least know that. Still really doesn't answer my challenge. Why if I reject a religion, that has claimed to be experienced supernatural, by multiple different people, that I should then on the next breath join a religion based of the words of wisdom and experience of just one individual.

[Eemaan]

Watch these:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyfxQ-hDvu8

 

What about this, Yusuf Estes. He is convert to Islam:

 

[Eemaan]

And THISSSS:

 

 

And lots and lots more. Watch them, learn what Islam really is. Then after you know all that, you can send me your opinions, what you think, if you want. It is a challenge, WATCH THEM if you can......... It's worth it!

 

It may take time, but download it and watch later. It is soooooooooo soooooo worth it.

[Eemaan]

What if you were to find out that the coming of this messenger was prophesized? Both in the Christian scriptures as well as the Jews scriptures, and a few others. The Jews were also expecting a prophet, but when Muhammad pbuh came, they were dissapointed because he wasn't especially for them but for humanity. The biography of the prophet pbuh also confirms that he was to be a prophet.

Mohemmed, was yeah the prophet of the final revelation of god. Sure that is the nuts and bolts of what he claimed about himself. I may not know a ton about the Quran, but I at least know that. Still really doesn't answer my challenge. Why if I reject a religion, that has claimed to be experienced supernatural, by multiple different people, that I should then on the next breath join a religion based of the words of wisdom and experience of just one individual.

 

In that case Valk, I will tell you to read his biography. The full version. Try Martin Lings, you can find a pdf online.

[Guest Valk0010]

Okay I will bite:

 

Conservative views on the dates of the writing of the gospels are less then 100 AD. The jewish bible was written in the hundred or so years before that.

 

Quran was written about 600 AD.

 

With that in mind, what factual proof do you have that the Gospels and the Hebrew Old Testament are less reliable then the Quran?

[Guest Valk0010]

For the sake of it, christians would argue that this verse is evidence for going to evangelize gentiles

 

Acts 13:47 "The Lord has commanded us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth"

 

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/sheepjourney.html

[Guest Valk0010]

What if you were to find out that the coming of this messenger was prophesized? Both in the Christian scriptures as well as the Jews scriptures, and a few others. The Jews were also expecting a prophet, but when Muhammad pbuh came, they were dissapointed because he wasn't especially for them but for humanity. The biography of the prophet pbuh also confirms that he was to be a prophet.

Mohemmed, was yeah the prophet of the final revelation of god. Sure that is the nuts and bolts of what he claimed about himself. I may not know a ton about the Quran, but I at least know that. Still really doesn't answer my challenge. Why if I reject a religion, that has claimed to be experienced supernatural, by multiple different people, that I should then on the next breath join a religion based of the words of wisdom and experience of just one individual.

 

In that case Valk, I will tell you to read his biography. The full version. Try Martin Lings, you can find a pdf online.

Thanks for the recommendation, Im sure I will get to it sometime.

[bornagainathiest]

Ya, sorry BAA.

 

The brief guide is not fake, it is facts. Too bad it had to use images from a school book huh? I have tried my best discussing with you, remember the mountain peg thing. Ok, I will see if I can be on that new thread you created.

 

Ok Eemaan,

 

If the Brief Guide is factual, please cite the corroborating evidence that it is so. By this I mean, do as I've done. Wherever possible, I've cited the science that refutes the Brief Guide's false claims. The science, Eemaan. The scientifically tested, proven and verified FACTS.

 

If the Brief Guide is factual, then there will be other scientists who can confirm the claims it makes. These will be scientists from any nation, any race and any belief system. They won't necessarily be Muslims, they won't necessarily be converts to Islam and they won't necessarily be Muslim Creationists, like yourself. That's because, if the facts are the facts, then anyone can see them - regardless of their religious belief. There's no 'special' way of having to look at them. The facts will speak for themselves.

 

So please present the facts.

 

Oh and btw, a school book will not do!

In every case I've cited properly tested, confirmed and peer-reviewed scientific facts.

Therefore, if you want to prove that the Brief Guide is factual and not fake, I expect you to do the same.

 

Facts, backed up by peer-reviewed science please!

 

BAA.

[Ro-bear]

Yeah, WTF do the women look forward to? Am I just going to be making sammiches for these horny old goats to snack on between deflowering their perpetu-virgins with their always-hard shafts? Or am I to be one of those poor unfortunate girls?

 

All that instruction must get old: "Suck, Adqurah; blow is just a figure of speech!"

[bornagainathiest]

Ya, sorry BAA.

 

The brief guide is not fake, it is facts. Too bad it had to use images from a school book huh? I have tried my best discussing with you, remember the mountain peg thing. Ok, I will see if I can be on that new thread you created.

 

Eemaan,

 

In case you have any problem finding that new thread, it's in the Science vs, Religion area. It's title is...

"Misleading Pseudo-Scientific Disinformation - Beware of it!"

 

BAA

 

 

p.s.

Here's another question for you.

 

Is the convicted terrorist, Ali Al-Timimi mentioned in this article... http://www.washingto...5071302169.html ...the same Ali Al-Timimi... http://www.islam-gui...frm-editors.htm ... who was an editor of the Brief Illustrated to Understanding Islam?

[Astreja]

What if you were to find out that the coming of this messenger was prophesized?

 

Absolutely meaningless, Eemaan. Anyone can claim to be the prophet of an undetectable god. That does not make the claim true.

 

When people want to believe something badly enough, they will quite happily follow a fraud or a person with psychological problems who thinks they've been speaking to angels and riding around on a flying horse.

 

And until your god shows up (no sign of it so far!) I see no reason to believe what you believe. As I said, I will only accept a face-to-face encounter, because in the "Truth" department, scriptures aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They may have some value as literature, but are worthless as evidence.

[Dory]

Hi Eeemaan,

 

welcome to the forum! You've had many comments from many people on here, and they're all of the same strain. Here are people who are just finished with religion in general, for me, I don't want anything to do with the Abrahamic religions again as its left me with so much psychological damage, I'm still on medication. You sound really sweet, and I won't generalise the Islamic faith as I have a wonderful friend who is a Muslim, who actually really helped me when I came out lesbian (which was much better than how my Christian 'friends' reacted). The deal with Islam, or Christianity, Judaism, etc, is that they're closed systems, and I was tired of trying to fit the pieces together and not hate the God of the religion.

 

I guess you'll ignore this, but trying to convert here won't get you anywhere. Maybe just watching and learning might be a good way to go. I've only posted a few times over the last few months I've been here, but learnt so much through book recommendations. I'm all up for learning about Islam, the same way I'd love to know about Paganism or Zoroastrianism (however that's spelt). They're part of human history, but myself and many others here won't fall into the cult trap again.

 

Nice to meet you anyway, and just learn