Showing Interest

[Thumbelina]

I think we have the same motivation within our particular beliefs. I know mere humans cannot solve all the woes on this planet though.

 

Well, the gods don't appear to be doing much better. Considering that they're working strictly with the physical world and don't possess superpowers, humans are actually doing a fairly good job of fixing things.

 

IMO people are more stressed out and depressed as time passes by.

 

 

Thumbelina said: I did waste some of my life on secular living and I WISH I was raised in church. I KNOW God loves me and did not realize how much until a few years ago.

 

IMO, Thumbelina, you sincerely believe you "know" but I don't see any way for you to prove to us that you do actually know such a thing. Private communications between you and your alleged god are simply of no use to us and we can't just take your word for it.

 

 

Yes everyone has to find their own path.

 

 

Thumbelina said: I was/am not dismissing your experiences. I see such huge misunderstandings of biblical texts...

 

It remains to be seen who's misunderstanding the texts. I don't think that your understanding is superior to ours.

 

My understanding did not lead me to forsake a loving God so I am not misunderstanding the gospel.

 

 

Thumbelina said: Trying to be affirmed by men is stressful. God gives me joy. I had the secular life and something was missing and that something was God.

 

I don't feel any major need to be affirmed by humans, and your god has not seen fit to reveal itself to Me. (And no, I'm not going to bother asking. If it actually exists and it wants to talk to Me it'll have to be the one to make the first move.)

 

 

God does make the first move, you just don't notice. Remember the part of a song that says "I love Jesus because He first loved me"? It happened to me and many others too.

 

Thumbelina said: Yes, I realize that a lot of the atheists on the net give those reasons for going against religion and the bible. However, in truly free societies people are generally happy when their basic temporal needs are met and when they are free to embrace spirituality or not embrace it. Freedom and tolerance is the key.

 

Unfortunately for your argument, Thumbelina, we don't live in little bubbles where we can just ignore everyone else's problems and be happy 100% of the time. Empathy does not permit Me to be complacent when I know that others are *not* experiencing "freedom and tolerance." In My personal life, everything that pertains strictly to Me is fine. When I look out into the world, however, things are not fine at all and a lot of the problems are being caused by the intrusion of religion into civil society.

 

I'll become more tolerant of religion when:

• No children anywhere are lying awake in their beds at night, crying because they're afraid they or someone they love is going to hell;
  
• No GLBT people anywhere are being bullied on religious grounds;
  
• No woman anywhere is being guilt-tripped into staying in an abusive marriage because her religion frowns on divorce;
  
• No one anywhere is in danger of being disowned or fired because of belief or lack of belief.
  

So you believe in an eye for an eye? What about the song that says "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me"? Intolerance breeds intolerance. Both sides are supposed to disagree in a peaceable way. I think a biblical principle is to have a separation between church and state, religion should not be legislated and at the same time religion should not be banned. Both sides ought not to try to force their views on each other.

 

I say the best way to attempt to reason with Christian Pharisees is to rightly show them what their own religious book says. The bible teaches that God loves us and perfect loves casts out fear, therefore if someone is fearful of God they are not reading their bible correctly. No one should be bullied, the bible says there will be people whom God loved and saved that were members of the gay community. Women are not supposed to stay in abusive relationships. I personally know someone who had to sleep with a knife under her pillow because her pops wanted her in an immoral way. Secular pops pretended to join church and went to a church Pharisee to get Pharisee to sympathize with him. Pharisee already decided to NOT believe the victim because she has a smart mouth. So yes, I am aware of such injustices but they are not biblical commands, they're antibiblical as a matter of fact.

Now, I as a Christian have absolutely no right to go to secular institutions/businesses (eg Hooters) and demand that they follow my religious views and dress conservatively. Well same way secular people are not supposed to want to impose their secular/liberal beliefs on private church institutions. There's this girl who wanted to sue a Christian college because she wanted to dress like a strumpet and they did not allow it, she knew the rules before so maybe she should have chosen a secular school to go to.

 

 

Thumbelina said: We should be able to disagree with each other without being disagreeable, not so?

 

 

I'm prepared to be respectful if you are, Thumbelina, but I do hope you realize that we're discussing topics that bring up strong emotions and that Ex-C exists to help us deal with those emotions. There *will* be turbulence on this flight.

 

 

Yeah, I know that certain topics can evoke powerful emotions. I don't know about you but my bible instructs me to be angry and sin not. I sometimes fail but I am willing to learn from my experiences.

[Akheia]

So you believe in an eye for an eye? What about the song that says "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me"? Intolerance breeds intolerance. Both sides are supposed to disagree in a peaceable way. I think a biblical principle is to have a separation between church and state, religion should not be legislated and at the same time religion should not be banned. Both sides ought not to try to force their views on each other.

First, she never said she wanted an eye for an eye. You put those words into her mouth all by yourself.

 

Second, the Supreme Court of the United States would disagree with you there, Thumby. Religion has 100%, absolutely positively, no place in our government. It is not "banned", though. You are still free to pray in private and attend whatever crazy-ass church you want. But you are not allowed to make your courthouses and legislatures display religious symbols on government-owned land or pray openly during their sessions (which is against Biblical teaching anyway, for chrissakes, not that Christians know or care what's really in their own Bibles).

 

Separation of church and state is theoretically a Biblical principle in the exact, precise same way that hebephilic rape is a Biblical principle. Jesus said to render to Caesar what was Caesar's, but Christians definitely do not believe that nowadays and would rather have their religion invade our government and take over all aspects of everyday life. The Founding Fathers were well aware of how invasive Christianity is and took what steps they could to prevent that from happening, which the GOP is now trying its best to dismantle. You really have no clue what principles this country was founded on, so please don't say it was based on anything Biblical, because in so writing that you display your own ignorance.

 

Yeah, I know that certain topics can evoke powerful emotions. I don't know about you but my bible instructs me to be angry and sin not. I sometimes fail but I am willing to learn from my experiences.

 

If you were really transformed by God, you would not be taking this long to learn. I know your God isn't real for many reasons, but the total lack of transformative power he has is one of the big ones. His followers are no different whatsoever for having been infilled by his spirit, and in many cases are worse than people who are not thus infilled (I look now to the Deep South and other very religious states/countries).

 

(edited to *TRY* to remove Thumby's weird color changes, sorry guys)

[bdp]

What I see on this website is that a lot of people did not have that personal experience with God though many did try to have it. I believe the reason why they did not find it is because the god they were presented with was not a kind and loving daddy that the bible describes and what many other people experience.

 

 

Bullshit.

[bdp]

I know your God isn't real for many reasons, but the total lack of transformative power he has is one of the big ones. His followers are no different whatsoever for having been infilled by his spirit, and in many cases are worse than people who are not thus infilled (I look now to the Deep South and other very religious states/countries).

 

 

Exactly - this was a big factor in my rejecting Xtianity too. In fact it was first cause, the textual and historical issues didn't come into play until well after.

[Astreja]

IMO people are more stressed out and depressed as time passes by.

 

I'm not. I'm substantially happier than I was 20 years ago, and deliriously happy when compared to 1999-2001 in particular.

God does make the first move, you just don't notice. Remember the part of a song that says "I love Jesus because He first loved me"? It happened to me and many others too.

 

Never happened to Me, Thumbelina. Perhaps your god should try speaking up a bit.

So you believe in an eye for an eye?

 

How on earth did you reach that conclusion from My comments? I believe in civil behaviour and restitution for wrongs committed, not revenge for its own sake.

Religion should not be legislated and at the same time religion should not be banned. Both sides ought not to try to force their views on each other.

 

Fine. Have any ideas as to how we can stop the religious from firing atheists, shaming women who won't stay with abusive partners, bullying GLBT people or scaring small children with tales of hell?

[Guest Valk0010]

What I see on this website is that a lot of people did not have that personal experience with God though many did try to have it. I believe the reason why they did not find it is because the god they were presented with was not a kind and loving daddy that the bible describes and what many other people experience.

 

 

Bullshit.

ditto times ten

[midniterider]

It all boils down to choice. As the bible says one needs to build their house upon the rock so when the storms of life come ones house will not fall flat. What I see on this website is that a lot of people did not have that personal experience with God though many did try to have it. I believe the reason why they did not find it is because the god they were presented with was not a kind and loving daddy that the bible describes and what many other people experience.

 

...

Jesus' love is the best and safest high that one could get. *not kidding*

 

My experience here is people gave their hearts, minds and souls to an entity which was merely their own imagination. It worked for a while but they were unable to continue to keep pretending that there was a god 'out there' answering prayers.

 

Yes, it does boil down to choice. I make my own choices. I don't believe there is a Christian god offering us choice. Choice to believe in him or burn in hell is not "free will." It is extortion. Christianity is a terrible way to waste one's life. Guilt, fear and control are toxic. Christianity is toxic.

 

I had two wonderful parents who showed me how to build my own house not upon rock, but upon rebar reinforced concrete. They also taught me the skill of building storm shelters for life's tornadoes. They showed me that on the roller coaster of life that I should make sure I'm strapped in but put my arms up and shout for joy. My parents also informed me that when the roller coaster went zooming down to the bottom, before I could say the words 'hope' or 'prayer' I would be zooming back up to the top again.

[Akheia]

I had two wonderful parents who showed me how to build my own house not upon rock, but upon rebar reinforced concrete. They also taught me the skill of building storm shelters for life's tornadoes. They showed me that on the roller coaster of life that I should make sure I'm strapped in but put my arms up and shout for joy. My parents also informed me that when the roller coaster went zooming down to the bottom, before I could say the words 'hope' or 'prayer' I would be zooming back up to the top again.

 

^^^ I would give this a smiley-face and a heart sticker if I could.

 

It is frankly appalling and disgusting that Thumby discounts the experience and personal stories of just about every member of this site by claiming that we just didn't wanna beweeve (as she apparently does) and that we just didn't realllllllly wuv Jeezus (like she does). I found her assertions insulting and condescending in the extreme. A pity she isn't really transformed by Jesus' grace, or she'd at least apologize for making such outrageous assumptions as that. This loose-shit arrogance she's displaying is really what she thinks will convert people or at least make them less hostile toward Christianity?

 

Thumby, I won't bother telling you you're wrong, but I will say that you're a real piece of crazywork.

[midniterider]

^^^ I would give this a smiley-face and a heart sticker if I could.

 

It is frankly appalling and disgusting that Thumby discounts the experience and personal stories of just about every member of this site by claiming that we just didn't wanna beweeve (as she apparently does) and that we just didn't realllllllly wuv Jeezus (like she does). I found her assertions insulting and condescending in the extreme. A pity she isn't really transformed by Jesus' grace, or she'd at least apologize for making such outrageous assumptions as that. This loose-shit arrogance she's displaying is really what she thinks will convert people or at least make them less hostile toward Christianity?

 

Thumby, I won't bother telling you you're wrong, but I will say that you're a real piece of crazywork.

 

Thumby discounts the personal stories because xianity says that people have no self worth without Jesus. The rock on which her house is built is the rock of self-loathing. Self-loathing is the basic tenet of xianity. People with healthy self-esteem and healthy sense of self-worth have no need for xianity.

[Thumbelina]

IMO people are more stressed out and depressed as time passes by.

 

I'm not. I'm substantially happier than I was 20 years ago, and deliriously happy when compared to 1999-2001 in particular.

 

Well I'm glad you're happy but would like your happiness to never end and I'd like you to find complete peace too.

 

 

 

God does make the first move, you just don't notice. Remember the part of a song that says "I love Jesus because He first loved me"? It happened to me and many others too.

 

Astreja said: Never happened to Me, Thumbelina. Perhaps your god should try speaking up a bit.

 

Maybe your circumstances made you not see it. God is wonderful. My dad used to play a certain song a lot and it said "Lay your troubles on my shoulder and put your worries in my pocket." God is that and then some. I do hope you get that experience some day. Every now and then I used to ask someone I know if they never heard that still small voice of God speaking to them and they would say no; didn't know what I was talking about. However that person started reading and studying their bible and recently got rebaptized and I am pleased to report they are now born again (the person was not born again during the first baptism, they were just going through the motions. They do not mind me saying this.) for the first time and is now experiencing what I had asked them about. Sometimes it takes life's difficulties to make people look for God or sheer boredom.

 

 

 

 

So you believe in an eye for an eye?

 

Astreja said: How on earth did you reach that conclusion from My comments? I believe in civil behaviour and restitution for wrongs committed, not revenge for its own sake.

 

 

My bad, I realize you said more tolerant. *speaking in a light, amused tone* So you only threaten people in virtual world?

 

 

 

Religion should not be legislated and at the same time religion should not be banned. Both sides ought not to try to force their views on each other.

 

 

Astreja said: Fine. Have any ideas as to how we can stop the religious from firing atheists, shaming women who won't stay with abusive partners, bullying GLBT people or scaring small children with tales of hell?

 

 

 

 

Have all atheists move to North Korea? j/k

As long as people are away from God there will NEVER be peace on this earth; no God, no peace. I'm keeping it real here, OK? People cannot walk together in perfect harmony unless they agree. The bible says it won't happen (see Genesis 3:15). I've seen it happen in my life. I have made a choice not to embrace the things of this world and as a result some people will be rebuked by it. I was once in a position where this seeming angelic secular gal started having an affair. Secular gal knew that I'm Christian and my lifestyle was a rebuke to her (see 1 John 3:12) so she started picking on me and not the other secular people. One time she even had the nerve to complain to me that her son was being rude to her (she had the other man around her kids and the boy was old enough to realize something was up). Suffice it to say, she ruined her marriage. I was drawn to God because I realized He loved me and I liked some of His rules.The secular world was just too immoral for me and I did not want it.

 

Even among sinners who believe alike there's conflict. On forums where Christians are attacked, the people start fighting with each other when there aren't many Christians around, it's human nature.

[CDFree]

Christians can't walk in harmony, they can't even agree on which version of. "god" is right, Thumbelina!

[Thumbelina]

It all boils down to choice. As the bible says one needs to build their house upon the rock so when the storms of life come ones house will not fall flat. What I see on this website is that a lot of people did not have that personal experience with God though many did try to have it. I believe the reason why they did not find it is because the god they were presented with was not a kind and loving daddy that the bible describes and what many other people experience.

 

...

Jesus' love is the best and safest high that one could get. *not kidding*

 

My experience here is people gave their hearts, minds and souls to an entity which was merely their own imagination. It worked for a while but they were unable to continue to keep pretending that there was a god 'out there' answering prayers.

 

 

The above would have resulted because folks did not fully understand the gospel. God does manifest Himself in different ways.

 

 

Yes, it does boil down to choice. I make my own choices. I don't believe there is a Christian god offering us choice. Choice to believe in him or burn in hell is not "free will." It is extortion. Christianity is a terrible way to waste one's life. Guilt, fear and control are toxic. Christianity is toxic.

 

I had two wonderful parents who showed me how to build my own house not upon rock, but upon rebar reinforced concrete. They also taught me the skill of building storm shelters for life's tornadoes. They showed me that on the roller coaster of life that I should make sure I'm strapped in but put my arms up and shout for joy. My parents also informed me that when the roller coaster went zooming down to the bottom, before I could say the words 'hope' or 'prayer' I would be zooming back up to the top again.

 

 

You know based on what you said there, the bible says that according to your faith (trust in God) so be it unto you. Btw faith comes by a correct understanding of the Word. Jesus chased away the scoffers in Mark 5:39-41, God gave them, as He does us, a measure of faith and they had predetermined hearts and therefore missed out on seeing a miracle When my interpretation of the bible was faulty I did not give up, I knew I would understand some day and I do A correct understanding leads one in a saving relationship with God.

[Thumbelina]

Christians can't walk in harmony, they can't even agree on which version of. "god" is right, Thumbelina!

 

Surely you know about the wheat and tares? The bible cautions people about judging/condemning others; seeming tares will eventually be wheat!

[CDFree]

Which version of correct understanding would that be Thumbelina?

[CDFree]

Christians can't walk in harmony, they can't even agree on which version of. "god" is right, Thumbelina!

 

Surely you know about the wheat and tares? The bible cautions people about judging/condemning others; seeming tares will eventually be wheat!

 

I'm not condemning any one, I'm stating facts - Christians can't walk in harmony - FACT!!!

[Thumbelina]

Christians can't walk in harmony, they can't even agree on which version of. "god" is right, Thumbelina!

 

Surely you know about the wheat and tares? The bible cautions people about judging/condemning others; seeming tares will eventually be wheat!

 

I'm not condemning any one, I'm stating facts - Christians can't walk in harmony - FACT!!!

 

True but the bible predicted that WILL happen. People are afforded freedom of choice.

 

...................

 

* a liltle preaching*

To the people who say that they won't join Christianity because there are too many hypocrites, if you let a hypocrite get between you and God, the hypocrite is closer to God than you.

[CDFree]

So which brand of Christian is right, Thumbelina, I'm still waiting for that answer???

[mcdaddy]

^^^ I would give this a smiley-face and a heart sticker if I could.

 

It is frankly appalling and disgusting that Thumby discounts the experience and personal stories of just about every member of this site by claiming that we just didn't wanna beweeve (as she apparently does) and that we just didn't realllllllly wuv Jeezus (like she does). I found her assertions insulting and condescending in the extreme. A pity she isn't really transformed by Jesus' grace, or she'd at least apologize for making such outrageous assumptions as that. This loose-shit arrogance she's displaying is really what she thinks will convert people or at least make them less hostile toward Christianity?

 

Thumby, I won't bother telling you you're wrong, but I will say that you're a real piece of crazywork.

 

Thumby discounts the personal stories because xianity says that people have no self worth without Jesus. The rock on which her house is built is the rock of self-loathing. Self-loathing is the basic tenet of xianity. People with healthy self-esteem and healthy sense of self-worth have no need for xianity.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3q6Cid1po

 

Thanks to Mitzer for the above Vid. makes perfect sense here. I'd love to hear your apologetic response, Thumb.

[Exevolt]

Christians, why do you pretend to be interested in people who show an interest in Christianity but then "dump" them when they won't subscribe exactly to what you believe, leaving them hurt and bewildered with an assurance that never again will they check out Christianity?

 

They don't know how to have real relationships. Christians have very different rules of engagement to the rest of society.

 

Not only that, but fundamentalists are often taught to stay away from "worldly influences" that may "lead them away from god". Isolation is a big part of the brainwashing. It sucks, no doubt about it, but essentially you're not dealing with very well-adjusted people. And they don't understand that their view of the world and relationships with others is upside-down.

Exactly.

[Thackerie]

Your so-called "jokes" are insulting, condescending and verbally abusive. You refuse to treat us as adults and insist on playing God's Appointed Scolding Mommy rather than holding a genuine dialogue with us. We've told you repeatedly to cut out that infantile crap. Please explain, in 20 words or less, why you refuse to do so.

That is how I feel. So ditto

 

Me too! I think "insulting, condescending and verbally abusive" describe this scold to a T!

[Thumbelina]

^^^ I would give this a smiley-face and a heart sticker if I could.

 

It is frankly appalling and disgusting that Thumby discounts the experience and personal stories of just about every member of this site by claiming that we just didn't wanna beweeve (as she apparently does) and that we just didn't realllllllly wuv Jeezus (like she does). I found her assertions insulting and condescending in the extreme. A pity she isn't really transformed by Jesus' grace, or she'd at least apologize for making such outrageous assumptions as that. This loose-shit arrogance she's displaying is really what she thinks will convert people or at least make them less hostile toward Christianity?

 

Thumby, I won't bother telling you you're wrong, but I will say that you're a real piece of crazywork.

 

Thumby discounts the personal stories because xianity says that people have no self worth without Jesus. The rock on which her house is built is the rock of self-loathing. Self-loathing is the basic tenet of xianity. People with healthy self-esteem and healthy sense of self-worth have no need for xianity.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3q6Cid1po

 

Thanks to Mitzer for the above Vid. makes perfect sense here. I'd love to hear your apologetic response, Thumb.

 

 

 

 

I looked at the video. First off, I would say that that missionary was monumentally ignorant of scripture and ill prepared for mission work. I noticed he believed in ditching the OT and that's a no no. He also was giving the people crap to drink so therefore he was IGNORANT of biblical health principles. Secondly, he never once spoke about a real relationship with God (probably because he did not fully understand the gospel). Thirdly, his missionary company sent him but did God send him? God has to ekbalē (sends out laborers) people. The bible says that if something is done without faith (trust in God) it is sin (Romans 14:23); even if that thing being done is good in and of itself (see 1 Sam. 15:22).

 

Fourthly, his lack of knowledge made him unable to offer the people a better way, the people have relative peace, conditions are favorable to them (well, to the men, I'm sure) so they don't see a NEED for God. They are profane people like Esau and seem to have a lack of empathy (laughing at someone committing suicide; laughing at someone's head being cut off?). They want to live the life like some of the people I grew up around, they want to eat, drink and be "merry"for tomorrow they die. Alas, women and children usually get the dirty end of the stick in situations like that. There's this man from where I grew up who died recently, he was the eat drink and be merry type and yes his daughter sent me an email with a copy the program from his funeral, she was not grieving for they did not have a relationship. That man was as selfish as they come.; he did not take care of her, he loved the women. He requested that they play "I did it my way" at the funeral. That story is repeated again and again with some of the people I grew up with. Some people have PREDETERMINED hearts and even if God was to show up bodily they will still reject Him. They PREFER this transient life.

Women usually outnumber men, I wonder what will happen if something happened and those Pirahã men were to out number women. I bet you the violence will start. Those people have their heads stuck in the dirt so now you have the blind leading the blind. <-- I had to put in some sass, people like Florduh like sass

[CDFree]

Are you going to answer my questions Thumbelina or are you all gas and no substance like all the other Christians I had the misfortune to have dealings with?

[CDFree]

Oh wait I know the answer all Christians are wrong, including you Thumbelina, Christianity is the biggest con ever and you have been duped big time, one just has to look at your responses and lack of to work that out, it isn't rocket science!!!

[agnosticator]

Women usually outnumber men, I wonder what will happen if something happened and those Pirahã men were to out number women. I bet you the violence will start.

 

Nah! The men would pull up their little wooden chairs, pop some corn, get the beer, and enjoy some girl on girl action!

[centauri]

I looked at the video. First off, I would say that that missionary was monumentally ignorant of scripture and ill prepared for mission work.

I noticed he believed in ditching the OT and that's a no no.

Christians routinely ditch the Old Testament whenever it's convenient for them to do so.