ConureDelSol Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 He gives us choices, He's a gentleman and does not force Himself on people. In reality if someone does that it will be called rape. You do know that the bible states that there will be wolves in sheep's clothing, right? There are also people who behave badly now but will eventually change their ways. What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies In that case, you and many others like you are raping us every day. So which Christian plucks out your orbs and forces you to read, huh? See what I mean about mischievous atheist types? I like you but not those shenanigans of yours. I'm not forced to READ it. I'm forced to HEAR it from the loudmouths on pulpits, in politics, in the news and on the streets. I admit there are loudmouthed atheists and agnostics as well, but every time WE speak out, Christians complain their being "persecuted" just because someone doesn't agree with them. Then they silence the ones who let those atheists have a voice through intimidation. Alas, I'm not in the mood to get any more upset over nothing so I'll just return to lurking until I see another opportunity to make a random comment. As often as you enrage me, you do amuse me at times Thumby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thou hast said. He was expounding the New Covenant. He was doing this: 1 John 2:7 . The Old Covenant failed because the people were faulty but Jesus being the fulfillment of the types and shadows caused the gospel to truly be understood and the law can now be written on people's hearts. How could the Old Covenant have failed, if it was perfect? (See quote below.) The people may have been faulty, but then again, they always had been (since Adam and Eve) and still the law was written. Why, if it could never work? The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. (Psa 19:7) I did say the fault was with the PEOPLE; God allows CHOICE! Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The law is perfect, us dang humans are a mess! What choice does God allow? He allows the choice between loving him and burning in hell eternally. That's not a choice, no one willingly submits themselves to an eternity of pain. The only reasonable of the two is to love God in order to be saved of hell. Again, that is not a real choice. In Psalms (above) it says that the perfect law 'makes wise the simple'. Still, a New Covenant was necessary. Because the perfect law of old did not actually make wise the simple? How does that work? Interesting that you would quote from the New Testament to say that a New Covenant was necessary. Could you give me one verse in the Old Testament where it says such a thing? Because as far as I know, the Old Testament is all about the Old Covenant, and never once mentions a new one. Then suddenly Jesus comes along and we do need a new one, provided by Jesus, according to his followers. Does this seem a little shady to you also? I'm sorry but you are trying to swallow an elephant in one fell swoop and that cannot be done. There are some basic teachings you do not understand. Those teachings are necessary to understand the things that are hard to understand. Hell won't be eternal. A New Covenant was necessary for a lot of OT people tried to keep the law in their own strength. The New Covenant shows how Jesus died for us and it causes the law to be written in our hearts. What does simple mean in the Psalm? One needs to be meek to understand. Many people are not meek and therefore they won't understand. Jeremiah 31:33 desribes the New Covenant but to understand all of that there are many other doctrines that need to be understood first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 " If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deut. 22:28-29 THUMBY. it says NOTHING about 'fornicators'. it says if a man is CAUGHT IN THE ACT OF RAPING a young woman, he has to pay her dad (you break it you buy it). Then the poor girl is to be married to that shitbag. Nice. You are a surface reader. The text says if they are caught. If it was rape it would say if he is caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thumb, do you have any thoughts on the complete lack of archaeological evidence for the so called "exodus"? What about the fact that the "empty tomb" wasn't venerated until the 4th century, after the early church miraculously "found it"? Or that canaanite texts, dated older than the bible, show that yahweh was one god among many (one of the 70 sons of El)? Have you never read about this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 " If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deut. 22:28-29 THUMBY. it says NOTHING about 'fornicators'. it says if a man is CAUGHT IN THE ACT OF RAPING a young woman, he has to pay her dad (you break it you buy it). Then the poor girl is to be married to that shitbag. Nice. You are a surface reader. The text says if they are caught. If it was rape it would say if he is caught. where does it say "they"? Thumb, i know all about reading "below the surface". the "hidden meaning" and all that bullshit. been there, done that. I used to watch the hell out of Perry Stone. even gave him $1000 bucks. *facepalm* its just fancy shmancy apologetic hoop jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 This is why the bible recorded certain events: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: You keep using the word 'record', yet clearly that is not what the verse is about. Recording implies a passive bystander, a neutral party. Yet this is a direct command from God, nothing neutral about it. If this verse is doctrine or instruction for righteousness, then why are you not living by it? Reproving or correcting it, however, is not permitted. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matt 5:18) The bible does not sugar coat. No, it has an awful lot of nasty things in it, some of which supposedly inspired by the benevolent and loving God. I'm still not sure how to reconcile those two things. Christians are not part of the commonwealth of Israel and the Old Covenant came to an end when Jesus died anyway. He was the fulfillment of all those ceremonies. Some laws were enforced to protect the lineage of the Messiah and they are not needed anymore. So you're saying that the law (and that encompasses the entire Old Testament, I might add) was written only for the commonwealth of Israel? You don't have anything to do with it, then. That, to me, sounds an awful lot like ditching it... Again, where in the Old Testament does it say that Jesus would do away with the Old Covenant? You haven't answered that yet. I'm off to have dinner, be back later! I'm sorry but you don't seem to be too knowledgable on certain biblical teachings. Let me ask you this, did the law begin at Sinai with Moses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I can't continue to do this. I seriously feel like my brain is atrophing. Buh-bye Thumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 " If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deut. 22:28-29 THUMBY. it says NOTHING about 'fornicators'. it says if a man is CAUGHT IN THE ACT OF RAPING a young woman, he has to pay her dad (you break it you buy it). Then the poor girl is to be married to that shitbag. Nice. You are a surface reader. The text says if they are caught. If it was rape it would say if he is caught. where does it say "they"? Thumb, i know all about reading "below the surface". the "hidden meaning" and all that bullshit. been there, done that. I used to watch the hell out of Perry Stone. even gave him $1000 bucks. *facepalm* its just fancy shmancy apologetic hoop jumping. It's in the KJV 28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I can't continue to do this. I seriously feel like my brain is atrophing. Buh-bye Thumb. Bye Mr. uber scoffer *waves* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thumb, is jealousy a sin? Yes. Gal 5:19-20 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions Then God is a sinner. Exodus 34:14 "For the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." You have a daughter, there are rapists in the neighborhood, you would jealously guard her so she would be safe, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 He gives us choices, He's a gentleman and does not force Himself on people. In reality if someone does that it will be called rape. You do know that the bible states that there will be wolves in sheep's clothing, right? There are also people who behave badly now but will eventually change their ways. What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies In that case, you and many others like you are raping us every day. So which Christian plucks out your orbs and forces you to read, huh? See what I mean about mischievous atheist types? I like you but not those shenanigans of yours. I'm not forced to READ it. I'm forced to HEAR it from the loudmouths on pulpits, in politics, in the news and on the streets. I admit there are loudmouthed atheists and agnostics as well, but every time WE speak out, Christians complain their being "persecuted" just because someone doesn't agree with them. Then they silence the ones who let those atheists have a voice through intimidation. Alas, I'm not in the mood to get any more upset over nothing so I'll just return to lurking until I see another opportunity to make a random comment. As often as you enrage me, you do amuse me at times Thumby. You still go to church? Yeah, Christians are not supposed to force their beliefs in politics. On the news and in the streets they are free to talk. Both sides should be able to speak out. I recently learned (from a Christian) that some believers tricked Richard Dawkins on that Expelled video, that was not right! "Christians complain their being "persecuted" just because someone doesn't agree with them." Some unbelievers do that too. They call polite disagreement hate speech. Yeah, you guys can get me a little annoyed but I actually still like you. God commands me to love you but like is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thumb, is jealousy a sin? Yes. Gal 5:19-20 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions Then God is a sinner. Exodus 34:14 "For the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." You have a daughter, there are rapists in the neighborhood, you would jealously guard her so she would be safe, no? Again, you always duck and dodge and never directly answer the question. Of course I would. I have two daughters. 2 and 7. but i would NEVER FORCE THEM TO MARRY THEIR RAPIST. I looked at the interlinear, and it says, directly translated from the hebrew, that the male GRASPED her and LAY(ed) with her. if it was consensual, he wouldnt have had to GRASP her. then it says he must marry her because he humbled/humiliated her. if it was consensual sex, why would "she" only be humiliated? THUMB. IF YOU WERE "GRASPED" AND "HUMILIATED" IN A SEXUAL MANNER, WOULD THAT BE RAPE?? of course it would. read between the friggin lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies You are drawn to atheists because you would like to be one. Spending time on Ex-c lets you schmooze with atheists under the guise of 'trying to save them.' But look deep within yourself. You know that you are tired of making up excuses for your god. One Christian in a sea of atheists here at Ex-c. You shall be assimilated. Resistance is futile. :-) The more you associate with apostates the more apostate-like you will become. You do not heed Matthew 10:14. You don't dust off your Nikes and move on when people ignore your religious words. You are willfully violating the commandment of scripture by staying here. Therefore I assert you ARE one step from atheism. Embrace your inner atheist, Thumbelina! Reject Christ! Turn ON your critical thinking, reasoning and logic! Turn ON your bullshit detector! The truth shall set you free of Christianity! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies You are drawn to atheists because you would like to be one. Spending time on Ex-c lets you schmooze with atheists under the guise of 'trying to save them.' But look deep within yourself. You know that you are tired of making up excuses for your god. One Christian in a sea of atheists here at Ex-c. You shall be assimilated. Resistance is futile. :-) The more you associate with apostates the more apostate-like you will become. You do not heed Matthew 10:14. You don't dust off your Nikes and move on when people ignore your religious words. You are willfully violating the commandment of scripture by staying here. Therefore I assert you ARE one step from atheism. Embrace your inner atheist, Thumbelina! Reject Christ! Turn ON your critical thinking, reasoning and logic! Turn ON your bullshit detector! The truth shall set you free of Christianity! Im afraid her bullshit detector is out of batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thumb, is jealousy a sin? Yes. Gal 5:19-20 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions Then God is a sinner. Exodus 34:14 "For the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." You have a daughter, there are rapists in the neighborhood, you would jealously guard her so she would be safe, no? Again, you always duck and dodge and never directly answer the question. Of course I would. I have two daughters. 2 and 7. but i would NEVER FORCE THEM TO MARRY THEIR RAPIST. I looked at the interlinear, and it says, directly translated from the hebrew, that the male GRASPED her and LAY(ed) with her. if it was consensual, he wouldnt have had to GRASP her. then it says he must marry her because he humbled/humiliated her. if it was consensual sex, why would "she" only be humiliated? THUMB. IF YOU WERE "GRASPED" AND "HUMILIATED" IN A SEXUAL MANNER, WOULD THAT BE RAPE?? of course it would. read between the friggin lines. You are reading it wrong!!! Rapists were killed! That verse is talking about seduction! Hump and dump was not allowed there, it is rampant now but under the theocracy it was not permitted. Read this link: http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/22-28.htm Read the commentary, this is what that particular text mean: Exodus 22:16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. One has to have a listening heart to see these biblical truths. .................. I thought you abandoned me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 He's not and He's wanting you to notice. No he isnt wanting us to notice. YOU are wanting us to notice. If he was there and wanting us to notice he would say something. Your other personality wants us to notice. Christians suffer multiple personality disorder. He gives us choices, He's a gentleman and does not force Himself on people. In reality if someone does that it will be called rape. You do know that the bible states that there will be wolves in sheep's clothing, right? There are also people who behave badly now but will eventually change their ways. What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies The bible is fiction. It should be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I noticed he believed in ditching the OT and that's a no no. Thumbelina, I was just wondering when you last stoned someone to death? 2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. (Deut. 17:2-5) Get with the program Suzanne!!! You don't ditch the OT. That is a STRICT no-no. Thats because Jesus came to fulfill the law. To uphold it. Not to abolish one jot or tittle. Except the fact that he did away with the law. The same law he came to uphold. He abolished. Easy, ain't it? What did the Mosaic law prefigure. Was the levitical priesthood supposed to end? Was there a priesthood that predated the levitical one? The bible is fiction and should be ignored. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies You are drawn to atheists because you would like to be one. Spending time on Ex-c lets you schmooze with atheists under the guise of 'trying to save them.' But look deep within yourself. You know that you are tired of making up excuses for your god. One Christian in a sea of atheists here at Ex-c. You shall be assimilated. Resistance is futile. :-) The more you associate with apostates the more apostate-like you will become. You do not heed Matthew 10:14. You don't dust off your Nikes and move on when people ignore your religious words. You are willfully violating the commandment of scripture by staying here. Therefore I assert you ARE one step from atheism. Embrace your inner atheist, Thumbelina! Reject Christ! Turn ON your critical thinking, reasoning and logic! Turn ON your bullshit detector! The truth shall set you free of Christianity! LOL I knew one of you would come up with something like this. Nah, I prefer to think I'm passionate about you guys cuz God wants to save your hides, He thrust me into (ekballo) this forum. I tried to leave earlier and it would seem He did not let me at that time. You never know maybe someone like Nivek will end up in heaven singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. I don't like atheism, it gives a justification for all the immoral crap I saw growing up. Jesus is also QUITE awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I looked at the video. First off, I would say that that missionary was monumentally ignorant of scripture and ill prepared for mission work. I noticed he believed in ditching the OT and that's a no no. Christians routinely ditch the Old Testament whenever it's convenient for them to do so. That may be true in SOME cases but you should not generalize. Generalizing in this case is quite appropriate. Most Christians will cite Paul, the uber apostate, as justification for their picking and choosing which laws are important. I've yet to hear any Christian radio station or encounter a preacher that doesn't praise and quote Paul's theological musings. Hey darlin', I don't know what the den would be like without you. Paul was not an apostate, he was a sincere man who finally found the truth. Now, if you permit the spittle and clay you'll find it too Paul was selling a "new and improved" religion, Thou hast said. He was expounding the New Covenant. He was doing this: 1 John 2:7 . The Old Covenant failed because the people were faulty but Jesus being the fulfillment of the types and shadows caused the gospel to truly be understood and the law can now be written on people's hearts. If the old covenant failed, I've actually been around a situation where I learned that a particular girl was giving up the "goods" to a group of dudes and ... . Do you have her number? No I don't and if I did I would not promote that sort of thing. I've seen many people hurt by that type of living and it's not conducive for family values and therefore society. Christianity hurts people and is not conducive for family values and therefore is a blight on society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm drawn to atheistic types when they are so mischievous. I reckon God loves them and wants them to know it, some people see them as nobodies You are drawn to atheists because you would like to be one. Spending time on Ex-c lets you schmooze with atheists under the guise of 'trying to save them.' But look deep within yourself. You know that you are tired of making up excuses for your god. One Christian in a sea of atheists here at Ex-c. You shall be assimilated. Resistance is futile. :-) The more you associate with apostates the more apostate-like you will become. You do not heed Matthew 10:14. You don't dust off your Nikes and move on when people ignore your religious words. You are willfully violating the commandment of scripture by staying here. Therefore I assert you ARE one step from atheism. Embrace your inner atheist, Thumbelina! Reject Christ! Turn ON your critical thinking, reasoning and logic! Turn ON your bullshit detector! The truth shall set you free of Christianity! Im afraid her bullshit detector is out of batteries. It's fully charged and can spot the insanity of atheism! Eh, I need to stop fooling around. Nice tusselling with you guys, well, sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Christianity hurts people and is not conducive for family values and therefore is a blight on society. 1 Timothy 1:8: We know that the law is good when used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Christianity hurts people and is not conducive for family values and therefore is a blight on society. 1 Timothy 1:8: We know that the law is good when used correctly. Alright Daddy Mac and Desenisitized boob, I'm out. Later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 He was expounding the New Covenant. He was doing this: 1 John 2:7 . The Old Covenant failed because the people were faulty but Jesus being the fulfillment of the types and shadows caused the gospel to truly be understood and the law can now be written on people's hearts. People are still faulty so any covenant will fail. There are people who are not Christians. There are people who will never be Christians. New covenant FAIL! Out of your mouth come the words "Jesus...caused the gospel to truly be understood..." I thought all us apostates didnt understand any of that stuff? We've read it but reject it. Do we or do we NOT have ears to hear? Quit contradicting yourself. It can't be true and false simultaneously. :-) Oh, right, I forgot, in the REAL bullshit world in which you live someone can understand yet be unable to understand a certain concept at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 " If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deut. 22:28-29 THUMBY. it says NOTHING about 'fornicators'. it says if a man is CAUGHT IN THE ACT OF RAPING a young woman, he has to pay her dad (you break it you buy it). Then the poor girl is to be married to that shitbag. Nice. Like the nag said, she looked it up recently. Therefore, she KNOWS that this verse says nothing about fornicators. She knowingly lied, thinking we'd be confused by her outpouring of verbal diarrhea. In other words, her standard operating procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thou hast said. He was expounding the New Covenant. He was doing this: 1 John 2:7 . The Old Covenant failed because the people were faulty but Jesus being the fulfillment of the types and shadows caused the gospel to truly be understood and the law can now be written on people's hearts. How could the Old Covenant have failed, if it was perfect? (See quote below.) The people may have been faulty, but then again, they always had been (since Adam and Eve) and still the law was written. Why, if it could never work? The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. (Psa 19:7) I did say the fault was with the PEOPLE; God allows CHOICE! Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The law is perfect, us dang humans are a mess! YOU are a mess. I'm just fine. People allow their own choices. One good choice is to be free of the fear and guilt of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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