TheDoctor Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hi! I've been doiing quite a bit of reading here the past few days, noticing the kindness and intelligence on display here. My question is this: is this the proper place to commiserate for someone, like me, that no longer wants to call themselves or be referred to as a 'christian', but still believes in God and Jesus deeply? I am someone who digs deeply into spiritual/theological issues. This makes me at odds with so many christians, who simply seem to want to drink the milk without getting into any meat. For instance, it amazes me how many folk who claim to KNOW their Bible also spout nonsense like 'Jesus was homeless'. REALLY?? Where does it say that?? It DOESN'T!! The same people tend to spout garbage about the LGTB community without any understanding about what the Bible really says, is all about or the importance of knowing the history behind it all. I'm sick of it. Besides the fact that my family has been treated pretty badly by churches in the past; currently my church, who have promised to support me in every possible way while I went back to college....has done nothing. I have actually decided to drop Christian Ministry as my major, since the Journalism department have treated me with more respect, kindness and simply done more for me personally than the ministry department ever has. Never mind the fact I've had two strokes since October, they just want more out of me, and threaten to give my responsibilities there to some teenagers if I 'choose not to' do these things. So it has all made me quite heartsick. SO...back to the question at hand. In the words of the Clash: Should I stay or should I go? At this forum, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C. First off, some relevant comedy. Secondly, we will treat you better than your church ever did. We are not fond of the clueless or arrogant xians either. Not to judge, but are you sure you really still believe in jesus? I mean, it seems like the last hold in your faith. Everything else has turned negative according to your story. Just asking. Stay, chat, read, laugh, learn. We have tons of really smart people here, and fun ones as well. As long as you realize you won't be able to convert anyone, people will be really nice. And who knows, after you ask the questions we all did you may choose to leave xianity like we did. Or not, thanks for sharing. So my vote is Stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 First, thank you! Second, yes, I still absolutely believe in the Jesus presented in the Gospels. Take THAT as you will. The lack of intellectual curiosity is one of the things that has turned me off. Well, that and the use of church as a social club for complaining old people and folks just looking for somewhere to dump their kids on a Sunday. Most christians, if I explained to them, for instance, the debate about whether Jesus REALLY went to hell after his death, they would simply tune out and stick with whatever grandpa said in 1898. Unacceptable. Or, if I tried to talk to them about how the bible never really condemns homosexuality. Cripes, that'll get you a heretic label quick! Or maybe the old canard about Jesus being poor. Since when does a poor person need TWO treasurers? Ugh. So yes...I still believe. But not in christians. Oh yes, we're all flawed and unworthy. Whatever. The church has done more to set civilization back than any government ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 Convert people? Whew. Beyond the fact I don't believe in THAT...I'm stunned that someone would be so arrogant as to come here and do that. Who's to say someone is wrong about something so intimate as spiritual beliefs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Welcome. We are ex-Christians, so not many people here will share your faith in Jesus. But there are many ways Christians interpret the Bible, so I'm sure you could find a church which is closer to your interpretation. Did you try a liberal church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilcoppertop Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Convert people? Whew. Beyond the fact I don't believe in THAT...I'm stunned that someone would be so arrogant as to come here and do that. Who's to say someone is wrong about something so intimate as spiritual beliefs? Many MANY people presume to do so. =) btw, love your name. And to London: HILARIOUS clip! Gotta love The Doctor and Donna. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hey Doc, My advice would be to stay, and to treat this forum as a place of learning. There is much knowledge here regarding the bible, theology, etc. We have no need to hide what we have learned, and will therefore answer your questions honestly. What you do with what you learn is up to you. just ask what questions you have, ask us why we don't believe, ask us what bothers us about the bible, etc. Ask for references to check into yourself, and look into them. Make up your own mind about points that we raise. Be open, listen, and retain your independence of thought, wherever that may lead you. Use this as a place to explore, to think and ponder. If something someone says upsets you, ask yourself why it does. Explore that. Ultimately, you are on a journey. I don't mind sharing it with you Love Pudd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 And to London: HILARIOUS clip! Gotta love The Doctor and Donna. =) I love Catherine Tate and try and tell everyone about her. If you like that one the French exam one is great as well. David was on the Friday Night Project (5 parts I think??) on youtube, worth watching. WOW, lately I am the king of going off topic. I really need to stop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 If you believe jesus is the son of god and he died for you, your as christian as anybody in my book, even if you hate the label. But then again, I welcome discussion of any sort. Stay if you like, but don't be arrogant prick, like I think you will be based of your OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 TheDoctor: You seem like a thoughtful person who is really starting to see through the circus of Christianity, while still holding onto belief in God, as presented in the Bible. I was where you are now at one point. We have had some Christians here on the forum who stayed for quite a while, but they are usually liberal Christians or those who would generally be considered heretical in one way or another by the general Christian population. I would say you are certainly welcome as long as you don't try to convert people or preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted April 8, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2012 Welcome Doctor! glad you found us! I totally understand about being fed up with churches!! I'm always open as to why people still believe in jesus and god, so I'll look forward to what you have to say.....but, if it is based on the bible....I probably will have a terrible time with it because I do not believe that the bible is 'the word of god', so you'll have to give me more intelligent answers outside of that book. If you could lead me back to god or jesus with something that no other bible believing christian has said...I would love that.......but I highly doubt it..... however, I think you should stay with us awhile - you hear what we have to say and we'll listen to you! should be fun!! Sincerely, Margee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 If you came here to learn, and to discuss things rationally, we're glad to have you. But, be prepared to have your answers questioned. As a still-believing Christian, you've probably accepted without question a lot of dogma (i.e., lies that preachers and apologist tell), and you should expect us ex-christians to point it out when you declare something to be a fact when we know it is clearly not factual. Your assertion in another thread that the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus were "historic" events comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I see that on a different thread you have already stated some parts of the Bible are "historical". The parts in question are not historical, and I am afraid that you still see the Bible as an authority. This is where the problem comes in for most of us here. You see, we have completely thrown out the Bible as some kind of accurate historical record. Be prepared to be challenged if you decide to present these kinds of statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 From my observations of watching people shift from conservative Christianity to something different, I would say that you are months away from complete atheism. So, stick around, because even if you are out of place as a Christian now, you will be at home by October when you will be a godless atheist just like the rest of us. The movement from being a biblebot to being a freethinker is an inevitable one, and any stops along the way are only temporary. By the way, the Bible actually does teach all the things that you find obnoxious. Christianity is a pool that can't purify. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 If you stay you will find all your beliefs challenged. The Bible is a collection of myths and fables written by men and Jeshua never existed. If you want to remain a Christian, this is probably the last place you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hi! I've been doiing quite a bit of reading here the past few days, noticing the kindness and intelligence on display here. My question is this: is this the proper place to commiserate for someone, like me, that no longer wants to call themselves or be referred to as a 'christian', but still believes in God and Jesus deeply? I am someone who digs deeply into spiritual/theological issues. This makes me at odds with so many christians, who simply seem to want to drink the milk without getting into any meat. For instance, it amazes me how many folk who claim to KNOW their Bible also spout nonsense like 'Jesus was homeless'. REALLY?? Where does it say that?? It DOESN'T!! Actually it does but it is in a verse inferring the son of man has no stone to lay his head on. The same people tend to spout garbage about the LGTB community without any understanding about what the Bible really says, is all about or the importance of knowing the history behind it all.I'm sick of it. Sickness is a good sign to us. Besides the fact that my family has been treated pretty badly by churches in the past; currently my church, who have promised to support me in every possible way while I went back to college....has done nothing. I have actually decided to drop Christian Ministry as my major, since the Journalism department have treated me with more respect, kindness and simply done more for me personally than the ministry department ever has. Never mind the fact I've had two strokes since October, they just want more out of me, and threaten to give my responsibilities there to some teenagers if I 'choose not to' do these things. So it has all made me quite heartsick. SO...back to the question at hand. In the words of the Clash: Should I stay or should I go? At this forum, that is. Many of us here have studied and researched in depth. You have to be prepared to look at all the evidence wrt the veracity of the gospels, the way the bible was canonised, borrowing heavily from pagan myths etc. It is not like we were looking for an easy out. We desperately wanted it to be true. Pretty much the bible is leather bound crap and not much more. if you can take criticism as objective and not a personal attack, who knows, you may be one of us soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrox Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hi! I've been doiing quite a bit of reading here the past few days, noticing the kindness and intelligence on display here. My question is this: is this the proper place to commiserate for someone, like me, that no longer wants to call themselves or be referred to as a 'christian', but still believes in God and Jesus deeply? I am someone who digs deeply into spiritual/theological issues. This makes me at odds with so many christians, who simply seem to want to drink the milk without getting into any meat. For instance, it amazes me how many folk who claim to KNOW their Bible also spout nonsense like 'Jesus was homeless'. REALLY?? Where does it say that?? It DOESN'T!! The same people tend to spout garbage about the LGTB community without any understanding about what the Bible really says, is all about or the importance of knowing the history behind it all. I'm sick of it. Besides the fact that my family has been treated pretty badly by churches in the past; currently my church, who have promised to support me in every possible way while I went back to college....has done nothing. I have actually decided to drop Christian Ministry as my major, since the Journalism department have treated me with more respect, kindness and simply done more for me personally than the ministry department ever has. Never mind the fact I've had two strokes since October, they just want more out of me, and threaten to give my responsibilities there to some teenagers if I 'choose not to' do these things. So it has all made me quite heartsick. SO...back to the question at hand. In the words of the Clash: Should I stay or should I go? At this forum, that is. If you believe that Jesus (as portrayed in the Bible) is all-man and all-God and that you love him and you think he is mankind's saviour, then you are a Christian whether you like the label or not. You're not trying to convert us by stealth are you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 From my observations of watching people shift from conservative Christianity to something different, I would say that you are months away from complete atheism. So, stick around, because even if you are out of place as a Christian now, you will be at home by October when you will be a godless atheist just like the rest of us. The movement from being a biblebot to being a freethinker is an inevitable one, and any stops along the way are only temporary. Huh, that's funny, guess I don't exist. I went from christianity to paganism with no thought towards atheism. Have been some form of pagan or another for over 10 years. I'm not "the rest of us", and I wonder who the hell you think you speak for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Welcome, TheDoctor, although I'm not sure this is the right forum on the board for you. If you still believe in Christianity/Jesus (regardless of whether or not you like the label "Christian"), then you're not really a "former Christian." Be that as it may, you're probably fine being here, as long as you're not engaging in a sly proselytizing attempt (which is forbidden on this forum and the "Ex-Christian Life" forum, but is generally allowed on the other forums on this board). I see that you've said that that's not your purpose, so it looks like we're good here. One thing you said stood out to me, though: Or, if I tried to talk to them about how the bible never really condemns homosexuality. While I admire you for not condemning gays, your point here about the Bible is actually wrong, because it absolutely does condemn homosexuality. For example, here is one verse in particular: Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. To try to turn that into not condemning homosexuality takes an enormous stretch of the imagination. It is what it is, regardless of how more progressive Christians want to polish it and make it sound better than it really is. Regardless, though, enjoy your time here. Take care, man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwinfish Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 By an odd coincidence, I am actually watching an episode of Dr. Who, as I type this. Welcome to the forums, I'm sure you'll find the conversations stimulating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'm a Doctor Who virgin but welcome you nonetheless. I don't mind who-all wants to come and chat, but please be aware that you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. A lot of people here are possibly going to be your nightmare: very knowledgeable folks who are well aware that the Bible is not in fact an inerrant document written by God, but merely a product of its times, written and extensively edited by men to fit their particular agendas and needs. And those people are going to challenge you when you start trying to create your own facts to fit your beliefs. I beg you to be open to what those people say and investigate the claims the Bible makes for yourself. One major cause of me losing my own faith was learning Biblical-era history. A lot of other people here have reported similar experiences. If you genuinely want to keep believing in Jesus because you think the Bible's stories about him are true, you might want to re-think your involvement on a board that does not start with such erroneous assumptions. But if you really want to dive into the rabbithole and try the other pill, you might find the ride gets pretty wild, but it's worth the taking. We're here for you if you're questioning those assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 From my observations of watching people shift from conservative Christianity to something different, I would say that you are months away from complete atheism. So, stick around, because even if you are out of place as a Christian now, you will be at home by October when you will be a godless atheist just like the rest of us. The movement from being a biblebot to being a freethinker is an inevitable one, and any stops along the way are only temporary. Huh, that's funny, guess I don't exist. I went from christianity to paganism with no thought towards atheism. Have been some form of pagan or another for over 10 years. I'm not "the rest of us", and I wonder who the hell you think you speak for. I thought I would enjoy atheism and read the first half of Dawkins' God Delusion book. I discovered that atheism (at least his brand) was much more than "without god" but was pretty much material realism. Spirituality was strictly an hallucination or imagination. I understood at that point that I would most likely never be an atheist because I love spirituality. I just dont have to let it become toxic like Christianity once was for me. I can define my own spirituality. IMHO, atheism is not synonymous with free-thinking. A free thinker can believe in a deity while an atheist cannot. I'm sure atheism works perfectly well for some, but not me. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 IMHO, atheism is not synonymous with free-thinking. A free thinker can believe in a deity while an atheist cannot. I'm sure atheism works perfectly well for some, but not me. :-) There's where you're missing the thread. I don't know what you got from "Dawkins' brand of atheism" but that type of dismissal is contrary to the notion of free thought. Free thinking is not defined by what you "can believe" but by your willingness to hold for it's possibility, while dismissing its likelihood. An atheist DOESN'T believe in a deity-- whether they, or you think they CAN is not relevant-- what matters is if they can change their views in light of new evidence. Is it not a free-thinker's stance to entertain the possibility that there are no deities to believe in? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 IMHO, atheism is not synonymous with free-thinking. A free thinker can believe in a deity while an atheist cannot. I'm sure atheism works perfectly well for some, but not me. :-) There's where you're missing the thread. I don't know what you got from "Dawkins' brand of atheism" but that type of dismissal is contrary to the notion of free thought. Free thinking is not defined by what you "can believe" but by your willingness to hold for it's possibility, while dismissing its likelihood. An atheist DOESN'T believe in a deity-- whether they, or you think they CAN is not relevant-- what matters is if they can change their views in light of new evidence. Is it not a free-thinker's stance to entertain the possibility that there are no deities to believe in? Exactly. I can believe in a deity, if the evidence were to show itself. At present, I simply don't have any deity that I believe in. The suggestion that being an atheist precludes the notion of freethought is rather silly. A freethinker is simply one who follows the evidence wherever it leads him/her, without being bound by dogma. Many freethinkers have concluded that the evidence leads them to atheism, but many of those very same freethinkers would be more than willing to believe in a deity if the evidence before them would support it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 @ LONDON Married the son of English upper crust that came over on the QEII. He was raised in the South....says "brolly" and "loo" with a Cracker accent.....a comedy show unto itself. So we are well versed in "Dame" Tate. Every holiday someone in the crowd says "I ain't bovvered" and there is always someone from MY side of the aisle that says...."Whaaaa?" And then all the Brits howl until cider pours fourth from "the face" !!!! The Royal performance has to be the VERY BEST. Thanks for sharing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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