Akheia Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Well... considering how upset she got when she finally did find out, I think it was worthwhile to investigate it privately for a little bit. I mean, what if he'd run into a Magic Christian who could explain everything about his doubts? Then she'd have been worried for nthing. The guy's been married for years, and three months is barely a blip on the radar. I once dated a man who hid his religious search from me for two freakin' years. I think I was right to get pissed and hurt when I found out, but in his defense, he was thinking of joining a religion that I'd dissed on repeatedly through the preceding years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 She said she wants to understand where I'm coming from, and is possibly willing to view or read some of the sources I mentioned, but she wanted me to know that it will NEVER change her. This gives me hope, electech. One really good book might be "Why I Believed" by Kenneth Daniels, a former missionary. He is a compassionate author and the reader can clearly see the depth of his passion and how the truth slowly crept in. ...she told me point-blank that she would rather "something bad happen to me than for me to become an atheist". I used to think this way too. As a believer I had many catastrophic thoughts like this about if my partner lost his faith. The truth is, becoming an atheist is not nearly the devastation that something more tragic would be: dying, becoming a paraplegic or quadriplegic, developing a brain tumor, having an affair, living with chronic pain, etc.. The believer only thinks or imagines that the worst thing is to lose one's faith. Losing your faith is one of the best things that can happen; I hope your wife soon finds this out, that it's not nearly as bad as she thinks! Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 ...she told me point-blank that she would rather "something bad happen to me than for me to become an atheist". I used to think this way too. As a believer I had many catastrophic thoughts like this about if my partner lost his faith. The truth is, becoming an atheist is not nearly the devastation that something more tragic would be: dying, becoming a paraplegic or quadriplegic, developing a brain tumor, having an affair, living with chronic pain, etc.. The believer only thinks or imagines that the worst thing is to lose one's faith. Losing your faith is one of the best things that can happen; I hope your wife soon finds this out, that it's not nearly as bad as she thinks! Peace! I can confirm this for sure. I would much rather have had my dad lose his faith than his hand. He's in constant pain and has a whole host of other medical problems now as well. Losing his faith would have been much less catastrophic. Of course now I wish both my mom and dad would deconvert as I think it would do them a world of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TortillaLips Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 To be fair, she has a right to be upset in that respect. You could have been more open with her from the beginning. You choose to keep it all to yourself which while maybe having pure intentions was not the best decision. I would focus on the fact that you did openly tell her once you were sure of how you felt and that you did want to be honest with her. In other words, you told her before she just found out on her own and there is something to be said about that. Now it will just take time for the healing to begin for having hid it from her for some time. As my testimony is proof of, I am a big fan of honesty up front and through the whole process but then my wife and I have the closeness and candidness few others have. But the next best thing is coming out as soon as you feel comfortable. Are you kidding? Do you really thing that if he had kept her in the loop at the beginning of his slide out of faith, that it would make a difference? No, it would NOT! Her deep level of indoctrination is so strong that it would not matter one bit if he had told her at the beginning or at the end. And your own situation has nothing to do with the OP's. The OP's timing was not off or wrong because it would not matter either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBOOT Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This whole topic gives me the creeps, in the sense that it highlights how religions can become psychological crutches to so many people. The interdependance built over time becomes so great that any threat to it can provoke insane reactions as well as radical intolerance to competing views. Don't look here horsey.... You're too stupid to figure out anything by yourself. By the way, did you send your check this month ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 No crying last night...we didn't really talk about it. My band came over to practice (I will tell my band that I'm not a believer after I've told a few other family members first), so there wasn't much time to talk. But, after practice, and after the kids went to bed, we decided to watch The Big Bang Theory and just relax a bit. Then, we both fell asleep on the couch, and went to bed at 1AM. It was nice not having another night of depression and difficult talks. We are still making sure to show affection and tell each other "I love you." I can just imagine, though, all the other people who will be very hurt by this (my mom, my sister, maybe my dad, my wife's family, some close friends, etc.) and the expected "torn up inside" feeling I will have each time I tell someone about my loss of Christian faith. I know most of it is due to the expectation of bad reactions (incredible sadness, or anger, or whatever). If I knew someone was going to react good or bad before I talked to them, it would make it much easier to tell people. But the hardest part is not knowing. I will probably never hurt so many people than I will during this time in my life...and I can't blame them for being hurt or angry, because in my mind they are as much a victim of religious conditioning as I was! And that makes it so much harder...I really can't get angry at the fact that they will believe I am truly a lost soul destined for an eternity in hell, until or unless they eventually come to the same understanding of reality that I now have. I will not tolerate, however, if some of them choose to persist in throwing religiosity in my face after a time. Anyways, I'm sure I'll be telling others soon. That will be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 She said she wants to understand where I'm coming from, and is possibly willing to view or read some of the sources I mentioned, but she wanted me to know that it will NEVER change her. This gives me hope, electech. One really good book might be "Why I Believed" by Kenneth Daniels, a former missionary. He is a compassionate author and the reader can clearly see the depth of his passion and how the truth slowly crept in. ...she told me point-blank that she would rather "something bad happen to me than for me to become an atheist". I used to think this way too. As a believer I had many catastrophic thoughts like this about if my partner lost his faith. The truth is, becoming an atheist is not nearly the devastation that something more tragic would be: dying, becoming a paraplegic or quadriplegic, developing a brain tumor, having an affair, living with chronic pain, etc.. The believer only thinks or imagines that the worst thing is to lose one's faith. Losing your faith is one of the best things that can happen; I hope your wife soon finds this out, that it's not nearly as bad as she thinks! Peace! "Why I Believed" is actually one of the books I listed on the letter I wrote that I have not yet posted to my blog...it is a VERY good book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 13, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2012 I will probably never hurt so many people... You are hurting no one. You are doing nothing wrong. How others choose to react to your difference of opinion is totally up to them, not you. In fact, we have more reason to feel bad about their choices than they have reason to wring their hands over us. Don't let the brainwashing make you feel guilty for having a brain. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I hope the best for you & your wife. I'm sorry that you feel so bad for just trying to speak your truth. At least you know your intention was not to hurt anyone, but to be truthful & have your integrity. When you mentioned "Reformed...& being pastor's sil" let's just say I felt for you. ((hug)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwinfish Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, it sounds like she wants to get back to a normal life just by watching tv and not pushing the issue. It will probably take her more time to get used to it. Like Margee said, I don't think you should push her into looking at the validity of Christianity. When I talked to my wife about it, she ultimately said that she wants to believe it. And, it doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, she just needs it. Good luck on telling others, I still haven't taken that step, maybe in the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonForever Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 "Why I Believed" is actually one of the books I listed on the letter I wrote that I have not yet posted to my blog...it is a VERY good book! Great book - very clear and interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I will probably never hurt so many people... You are hurting no one. You are doing nothing wrong. How others choose to react to your difference of opinion is totally up to them, not you. In fact, we have more reason to feel bad about their choices than they have reason to wring their hands over us. Don't let the brainwashing make you feel guilty for having a brain. I totally agree with this. Unfortunately, in matters like this, emotions often trump it. It can be difficult to control how we feel about a situation, even when we logically know that we should feel differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I will probably never hurt so many people... You are hurting no one. You are doing nothing wrong. How others choose to react to your difference of opinion is totally up to them, not you. In fact, we have more reason to feel bad about their choices than they have reason to wring their hands over us. Don't let the brainwashing make you feel guilty for having a brain. I totally agree with this. Unfortunately, in matters like this, emotions often trump it. It can be difficult to control how we feel about a situation, even when we logically know that we should feel differently. I think I disagree with you here, Citsonga. Emotional responses change with changes in perception. And we are all able to change our perception of a situation, which would indicate a higher degree of control over our emotional responses than we might think we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 The way I've been trying to see it is that they will be reacting based on what they have been taught about reality. I am not going to automatically assume everyone is going to be dealing with emotion from the same worldview that I now have. I was totally convinced of Christianity and any reaction I had to people leaving the faith was consistent with that worldview, because that was reality to me. Not because I was stubbornly trying to ignore TRUE reality, but because that was what I was raised with and taught by people who were also raised with and taught the very same things naively. I EXPECT their reaction to be consistent with their worldview. I see their worldview as being flawed now, but they don't see it that way (yet). Only with time and the beginnings of the same curiosity I had will others start to understand where I am coming from. So, like I said before, I can't blame anyone for their initial reactions...even if there is anger there. But I WILL take exception to any ongoing antagonizing on anyone's part (including immediate family, in-laws, etc.)...I will put that to rest REAL quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBOOT Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, it sounds like she wants to get back to a normal life just by watching tv and not pushing the issue. It will probably take her more time to get used to it. Like Margee said, I don't think you should push her into looking at the validity of Christianity. When I talked to my wife about it, she ultimately said that she wants to believe it. And, it doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, she just needs it. Good luck on telling others, I still haven't taken that step, maybe in the next few weeks. Oh boy... why oh why would anyone divulge that kind of information in a context saturated with believers. That's like a shark in a school admitting he's really a tasty tuna. I'd fully assess the potential damage before, join some kind of support group, prepare an exit strategy if needed. ... this could be brutal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centauro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Florduh makes some very valid points. That is the reality of the situation IMHO. I know the gig, been through it, albeit a bit different. (I was agnostic when we married, wife was lukewarm Lutheran, became rabid fundy 10 years into the marriage....married for 30 years presently). First 15 years of her fundamentalism was a nightmare. Crying, pouting, silent treatment, self righteousness...yada yada yada. I put up with it FOR YEARS...deferring to HER feelings. When I drew the line, things changed; for me (much happier) and for her = stopped the manipulation. I agree, that you have to move slowly, but if you don't put boundaries on MANIPULATIVE BEHAVIOR, the crying and pouting will never end. IMHO. Be polite, be kind, but be firm and hold your ground. You are not responsible for her reactions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I'd fully assess the potential damage before, join some kind of support group, prepare an exit strategy if needed. ... this could be brutal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns .....holy shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitzer Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Gee, elec...my heart really, REALLY goes out to you. This is a very sad example of what this religion does...the division, sadness, anxiety, indifference and even hate that comes because of it, and the followers of it don't even realize it. It's beyond sad. I have no advice, bud. All I can say is just hang in there, and I sincerely hope that somehow it all turns out for the best for you and that you and your wife truly find a good place in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, it sounds like she wants to get back to a normal life just by watching tv and not pushing the issue. It will probably take her more time to get used to it. Like Margee said, I don't think you should push her into looking at the validity of Christianity. When I talked to my wife about it, she ultimately said that she wants to believe it. And, it doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, she just needs it. Good luck on telling others, I still haven't taken that step, maybe in the next few weeks. Oh boy... why oh why would anyone divulge that kind of information in a context saturated with believers. That's like a shark in a school admitting he's really a tasty tuna. I'd fully assess the potential damage before, join some kind of support group, prepare an exit strategy if needed. ... this could be brutal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns There's a big difference between that sort of Fundie Christian and the type of fundamentalist Christian that typifies my wife, family, and most of my friends. Pretty much everyone I know would dismiss that woman as crazy and out of her mind. Our "fundie-ness" is more "Bible is literal" in nature, whereas theirs is more superstition and emotionally-driven. It's hard to explain, but that sort of behavior would never be tolerated around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centauro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 That video is sad. Those kids are doomed. The faces of those children and grand children...even her spouse says it all. Typical codependent control freak, everybody walking on eggshells...scared. Don't get big mama mad. I would have taken her advice and gotten out...for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centauro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Electech98......maybe that kind of behavior isn't tolerated, but the end game is the same....protecting their world view and comfort by subtle manipulation and controlling behavior. You will see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I will probably never hurt so many people... You are hurting no one. You are doing nothing wrong. How others choose to react to your difference of opinion is totally up to them, not you. In fact, we have more reason to feel bad about their choices than they have reason to wring their hands over us. Don't let the brainwashing make you feel guilty for having a brain. I totally agree with this. Unfortunately, in matters like this, emotions often trump it. It can be difficult to control how we feel about a situation, even when we logically know that we should feel differently. I think I disagree with you here, Citsonga. Emotional responses change with changes in perception. And we are all able to change our perception of a situation, which would indicate a higher degree of control over our emotional responses than we might think we have. I think it depends on the individual, so broadbrushing the issue doesn't work. For clarification, I myself said "often" and "can be" rather than "always" or "will be" because of the fact that we're all different. For myself and some others, we can have emotions based on how we know others perceive a situation, even though we know fully well that the reality of the situation is entirely different. Perhaps you have better control over that than some of us, and if so, then that's great for you. However, we are all different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just read your other thread with the "coming out" letter, so now the first post in this thread makes more sense (I hadn't realized that the letter was actually posted elsewhere). Good luck with everyone as you work through this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I recently read Why I Believed, it was a pretty good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I will probably never hurt so many people... You are hurting no one. You are doing nothing wrong. How others choose to react to your difference of opinion is totally up to them, not you. In fact, we have more reason to feel bad about their choices than they have reason to wring their hands over us. Don't let the brainwashing make you feel guilty for having a brain. I totally agree with this. Unfortunately, in matters like this, emotions often trump it. It can be difficult to control how we feel about a situation, even when we logically know that we should feel differently. I think I disagree with you here, Citsonga. Emotional responses change with changes in perception. And we are all able to change our perception of a situation, which would indicate a higher degree of control over our emotional responses than we might think we have. I think it depends on the individual, so broadbrushing the issue doesn't work. For clarification, I myself said "often" and "can be" rather than "always" or "will be" because of the fact that we're all different. For myself and some others, we can have emotions based on how we know others perceive a situation, even though we know fully well that the reality of the situation is entirely different. Perhaps you have better control over that than some of us, and if so, then that's great for you. However, we are all different. It's not a matter of I having more control over it than most people, but rather it was a very important lesson that I had to learn for myself, so I am very aware of how it feels and the difficult process of learning how to do it. The thing is, though, it is something we all can learn to do. Having bipolar, I had a real disadvantage to begin with when I had to learn how to change my perspective of a situation in order to change my emotional response. For starters, since getting bipolar every emotion I feel is intensified, and it is easy for me to lose my grasp on reality and perspective. I know damn well how hard it is to do. But I can also attest to how effective doing so is. I don't deny that it takes a lot of practice, but that is the beauty of it- it gets easier with practice, and as a result I am a lot less reactive, more calm, and more in control of my emotional responses. I still feel deeply, but I am able to put those emotions into perspective by looking at the situation differently, so that I am not so distressed in any particular situation. And when I say distressed, I'm talking about bawling my eyes out for hours and feeling suicidal because I thought I'd offended someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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