notmohammad Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi there, I'm new to these forums, so please bear with me. Many years ago, I was a baptist, bible believer, however, I did not believe in literal interpretation. My wife was/is similar. I read the bible cover to cover, twice. Then, again about half way through. I could not believe what I had just read. It was full of errors, contradictions, lies and fabrications. My mind was spinning, my thoughts were along the lines of "there is no salvation", this God is not real, my life will probably end in nothingness. I had to come to terms with that. So, I never said a word to my wife. I simply stopped going to church. I found other things to do, and my wife stopped going without me. I even occasionally encouraged her to go. Fast forward 5 years, she eventually asked my why I don't go to church anymore. I was unprepared to give a coherent answer. I actually wanted to delay the discussion so I could "brush up" on the facts and bring up specific biblical errors. But, she insisted on a discussion. So, I said a long version of the following: The bible contains many errors, and I just don't know what part, if any, to believe. I can't make sense of it and I don't believe others interpretations of it. I look at the universe through my Meade 10 inch telescope and I have a hard time thinking that all of this simply came into existence by itself. So, I want to believe. But, I am a technical man, I need some facts. I can clearly see that Zeus does not exist. And, all of mankind's other religions are easy to debunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi there, I'm new to these forums, so please bear with me. Many years ago, I was a baptist, bible believer, however, I did not believe in literal interpretation. My wife was/is similar. I read the bible cover to cover, twice. Then, again about half way through. I could not believe what I had just read. It was full of errors, contradictions, lies and fabrications. My mind was spinning, my thoughts were along the lines of "there is no salvation", this God is not real, my life will probably end in nothingness. I had to come to terms with that. So, I never said a word to my wife. I simply stopped going to church. I found other things to do, and my wife stopped going without me. I even occasionally encouraged her to go. Fast forward 5 years, she eventually asked my why I don't go to church anymore. I was unprepared to give a coherent answer. I actually wanted to delay the discussion so I could "brush up" on the facts and bring up specific biblical errors. But, she insisted on a discussion. So, I said a long version of the following: The bible contains many errors, and I just don't know what part, if any, to believe. I can't make sense of it and I don't believe others interpretations of it. I look at the universe through my Meade 10 inch telescope and I have a hard time thinking that all of this simply came into existence by itself. So, I want to believe. But, I am a technical man, I need some facts. I can clearly see that Zeus does not exist. And, all of mankind's other religions are easy to debunk. You shouldn't have to apologize for the fact that you can't explain how the universe got here. Religions are just attempts to do that, but nothing more, ATTEMPTS. So you cant answer the BIGGEST, PROBABLY MOST UNKNOWABLE QUESTION IN EXISTENCE. that doesn't mean their answer is correct by default. science may not know it yet, but its a hell of a lot closer than saying "goddidit". And if they insist on saying "goddidit", you have to then ask "which god"? If they say the god of the bible, you say, "which god of the bible"? The tribal warlord God of the OT who has rival gods, the god of the prophets who is more universal and forgiving, or the triune father-son-HS god who killed himself to appease himself to undo the curse of the magical fruit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Notmohammad: That cannot have been an easy discussion. What did your wife say? How are goings going with her now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmohammad Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Notmohammad: That cannot have been an easy discussion. What did your wife say? How are goings going with her now? Actually, quite well. She understands my point of view. But, I don't press the issue at all. She's remarkably smart, so she gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hey electech, just getting caught up here on your story. I'm interested in knowing how the meetings with the pastor go, although it will be different for me since im already "out" to my church, i will have to have discussions with my pastor, soon im sure. I hope it continues to go well with your wife, though it sounds like shes willfully shrouding herself in her belief with no real ground, hopefully she'll slowly start to listen to you as she sees that you are going to continue to stand your ground. you're in my thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hey Duckie! Thanks for checking up on me. I'm guessing that I probably won't really have any more conversations with my pastor, due to the various things going on with my father-in-law, etc. I'm assuming that my pastor will probably be let on sooner rather than later either by my FIL, or myself. I can't continue a charade of only being a curious Christian to my pastor, when my wife, sister, SIL, and mother know I no longer believe. How are you doing, by the way? In mentioning that you will have to meet with your pastor soon, I am wondering if you are even wanting or needing to meet with him? Do you feel like you have to meet with him against your will? I'm asking especially if you feel you are not prepared to answer the rhetoric and rebuking that will undoubtedly come with such a meeting. I would just say to not do anything you feel uncomfortable doing. Set boundaries where they are needed. We're here for you! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Agreed entirely. Duckie, why do you "have to" talk to that asshole? Is he aiming a flamethrower at you or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesadclown Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 She said she wants to understand where I'm coming from, and is possibly willing to view or read some of the sources I mentioned, but she wanted me to know that it will NEVER change her. I agree with Positivist, this is a very encouraging sign. My wife showed zero interest in understanding where I was coming from, and even less interest in reviewing the sources that fed into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 She said she wants to understand where I'm coming from, and is possibly willing to view or read some of the sources I mentioned, but she wanted me to know that it will NEVER change her. I agree with Positivist, this is a very encouraging sign. My wife showed zero interest in understanding where I was coming from, and even less interest in reviewing the sources that fed into it. Just to update this, she has at least started to read "Why I Believed" by Ken Daniels at my encouraging. Since this book touches on more of the human / emotional side of deconverting, rather than just spouting discrepancy after biblical discrepancy, I figured that would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 14, 2012 That's great, electech! evid3nc3 youtube vids do a great job of handling the emotional aspect as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonForever Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 She said she wants to understand where I'm coming from, and is possibly willing to view or read some of the sources I mentioned, but she wanted me to know that it will NEVER change her. I agree with Positivist, this is a very encouraging sign. My wife showed zero interest in understanding where I was coming from, and even less interest in reviewing the sources that fed into it. Just to update this, she has at least started to read "Why I Believed" by Ken Daniels at my encouraging. Since this book touches on more of the human / emotional side of deconverting, rather than just spouting discrepancy after biblical discrepancy, I figured that would be a good start. I really liked Daniels's book - here's hoping it gets through the haze... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 By the way, another update: I gave my resignation from the position of deacon to my pastor yesterday at church. He talked to me the day before about knowing by word-of-mouth that I no longer believed, and he (very diplomatically, I might add) requested that I go ahead and submit a resignation letter to him. He also said he would like to get together at some point (a couple weeks down the road) and maybe talk about the issues I have. He asked if I had a book or two I could recommend to him so he knows where I would be coming from, so I emailed him today with a few book references. I know he would most likely try to convince me to come back and probably try to refute the books I recommend to him, but at least I am glad he would like to get together and talk in somewhat of a casual manner about these things. So now, the word has gone out to the elders and deacons of the church, and probably to their wives, and so on and so forth. This might turn into an interesting week, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 14, 2012 I hope that the rest of the church members are as diplomatic, electech. They're likely to suspect all types of sinister motives. Or perhaps your pastor will see the light! You never know... I'm interested in knowing which books you recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 That must be a little scary waiting to see how their knowledgemofmyour position plays out. It sounds like your pastor isn't a jerk and I would imagine that's a relief. I'm hoping that this week goes surprisingly well for you. ((hug)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 That seems like it went better than expected, electech. I hope the rest of the disentanglement goes as smoothly as the first bit did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 He asked if I had a book or two I could recommend to him so he knows where I would be coming from, so I emailed him today with a few book references. I know he would most likely try to convince me to come back and probably try to refute the books I recommend to him, but at least I am glad he would like to get together and talk in somewhat of a casual manner about these things. If you have time, the bibliophile nerd in me would like to know which books you recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 ^^ yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 I recommended: http://amzn.com/0578003880 - Why I Believed: Reflections of a Former Missionary (Ken Daniels) And http://amzn.com/B004O6MSY2 - The Rejection of Pascal’s Wager: A Skeptic’s Guide to Christianity (Paul Tobin - Kindle Edition, much cheaper than the book form) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I thought the Daniels book was pretty great, I need to check out the second book but its length has been putting me off, I have too many other things to read and it will be a little while before I can read 800 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2012 I just realized that I have read Daniels' book as well--good stuff. I had eyed Tobin's before and finally decided to buy the kindle edition. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Checking in again! It's the last two weeks of school for me so im pretty busy. Electech: on your question about having to meet with my pastor, it's all part of the Matthew 18 deal im having to deal with while living at home. basically, im putting up with it because i have no where else to go right now, I'm still trying to find more work and move out, at the same time i am preparing for nursing school and working through the last couple weeks of my semester. I DO feel as though it's being forced on me (it is), but there has been no talk about meeting with the Pastor, so I'm not sure where they are at in all the deal. My father likes to point out that "i made a vow" so i need to "take care of that." and apparently this is what that is all about, but i dont really get any of it. I just bought Why i believed on kindle! Haven't read it yet, but im about to. Thank you again for your great list of references that you posted with your letter to your wife, I'll probably start diving back into researching evolution and biblical fallacies next week after finals. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 I hope those are helpful to everyone! There are others that I included in my yet-to-be-posted "coming out" letter, but those are definitely a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBuilder7916 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thank you for sharing your story! I was the Christian that everyone looked up to. After eleven years in various positions of volunteer ministry, I started having doubts. Those doubts turned into a multi-year de-layering / shedding of my faith. My recent de-conversion has made life very difficult for my wife and her side of the family. At this point I am just trying to show her that I still am the same man she married 13 years ago. My story can be found here http://new.exchristi...ilding-his.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thank you for sharing your story! I was the Christian that everyone looked up to. After eleven years in various positions of volunteer ministry, I started having doubts. Those doubts turned into a multi-year de-layering / shedding of my faith. My recent de-conversion has made life very difficult for my wife and her side of the family. At this point I am just trying to show her that I still am the same man she married 13 years ago. My story can be found here http://new.exchristi...ilding-his.html This is the worst part. Having to prove to everyone you're NOT about to go on a fornicating, child molesting, Satan worshipping melee. Ex-C's have to be better people than Christians. But that's easy, because most are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianime Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Hello electech, I just read this thread and your FIL letter thread. It's alot of content, so i tried to minimize how much I read everybody's comments. But I did read all of your comments, because I really wanted to know how things are going with you. I started keeping a little date map (Talked to your pastor 5/3, wife started reading a book you wanted her to on 5/14, you sent FIL letter 5/29, got the Amazon book 6/1) of events in your life while I was reading, just so I could keep the whole thing organized. I probably didn't keep track of it all very well though honestly. I have to say that situations like yours burn me the hardest. Not because I've ever experienced it, or because I know of anybody who has experienced personally. But because the one thing that should be more powerful, and more reliable than anything else in the world is family and love. And when religion breaks THOSE things, or threatens THOSE things. It's just terrible that people can allow their most precious things be taken away. Anyways, your father in law sounds like a nicer version of my father. Lucky for me, my dad doesn't go to church (though he does "believe") so he doesn't hound me with that crap. For the record I'm not an ex-Christian, I'm a lifelong atheist. But my dad has constantly broken all bounderies set for him by my siblings, and at this point only 2 (me being one of them) of his 8 children will even speak to him. But I'm not particularly interested in your FIL as he isn't in a key position in your life. What I am interested in is your wife and kids. Are you letting your kids go to church? Do they know you don't believe at this point? Are they confused? How is your wife? You most recently said that she was refusing to read the books you gave her for stupid reasons. Did you call her on her bull? Are you two able to communicate well? It must be very tough given that her whole belief system tells her that you are so, so so very wrong that you are doing just about the worst thing a person could do. I know the whole unequally yoked thing can become an issue as well. I really hope she is coming around, and I really hope things are going towards something that you want. You have to remember that in the end this is your life and you craft it in a way that's in line with your values, wants, and needs. I think if the books you want her to read are becoming an issue, you might ask yourself why you want her to read those books. Is it because you want her to understand why you are thinking the way you are thinking? Is it because you want to change the way she is thinking? You have to consider that she might be looking at the books you recommend her in the same way that you are looking at the ones her FIL sends you (although you actually read them, I understand.) But I think you should make her know what significance reading those books holds to you, and how/what her refusal to read them is making you feel. I would appreciate if you would let me know how you two are doing. what stage you are at, what goals you have, what decisions you have made, what accomplishments you have made (as a couple), and what fears you have. This is, of course, all your choice to disclose what you wish. I really hope all is well and ends well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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