Ah, Looks Like It Was All In Our Heads After All :)

[Denyoz]

How can all this awareness help me? Can it give me eternal life? I guess eternal life is of no concern since I AM eternal life, whether or not I'm aware of it. So I should rejoice then, right?

[Antlerman]

How can all this awareness help me? Can it give me eternal life? I guess eternal life is of no concern since I AM eternal life, whether or not I'm aware of it. So I should rejoice then, right?

Well, yes, if you realize it, than you know it. I say it all the time, its not a conceptual belief that you place faith in. It's not some metaphysics you reason yourself into cognitively. It's an awakening, a realization, like opening your eyes from sleep. And from that awakening everything changes and becomes clear. Yes, you are eternal life.

 

How it helps people is pretty consistent. More stable, clearer mind, more attune to others and your self, more compassionate, patient, calm, peaceful, even, and so forth. And to tie that into the topic title, if it's all just the brain, than so what? How absolutely wonderful this is built into us to find Peace for our neurotic monkey minds! Would the whole planet had this 'feature'! I say have a global Bodi day, where everyone spend just one day in silent inner depth. What would the next day look like? Imagine that happened every day. Global Peace?

[Guest end3]

How can all this awareness help me? Can it give me eternal life? I guess eternal life is of no concern since I AM eternal life, whether or not I'm aware of it. So I should rejoice then, right?

 

You make it sound easy D. So I would ask do you think it is eternal life in that individuals live after physical death or do you think it means eternal life in that if we promote those qualities that give life, that this will result in "eternal" life. But to answer your question, either way would be a victory. If you have children, you will understand the need to pass something "living" down to them. Kind of scary, the prospects for my children in 50 years.....and maybe not, but yes, it would make me feel whole, full, satisfied, happy.....all of this things provided I could achieve that for them. If you are not to that stage in life yet, be thankful you heard a good message that brings hope.

 

And if you are a skeptic, try it.....maybe not under a Christian banner, but try doing it and evaluate your results.

 

I am not trying to offend, just offering my 2 cents.

[Antlerman]

Forgive me, I just have to inject this video here. What it says using the vehicle of 'an angel of God' to tell the story is exactly spot on correct to what we are and what is possible though that Realization. Again, how marvelous this is built into our brains!

 

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=0aQslMHDYCs

[Denyoz]

How it helps people is pretty consistent. More stable, clearer mind, more attune to others and your self, more compassionate, patient, calm, peaceful, even, and so forth. And to tie that into the topic title, if it's all just the brain, than so what? How absolutely wonderful this is built into us to find Peace for our neurotic monkey minds! Would the whole planet had this 'feature'! I say have a global Bodi day, where everyone spend just one day in silent inner depth. What would the next day look like? Imagine that happened every day. Global Peace?

 

Good answer Antlerman.

 

I could have written it myself, except, like I said, I'm not as eloquent as you are and my vocabulary is limited (English is not my first language). You really express yourself well and you are talking about something I know. It's beautiful, and the video was beautiful too. Watching it brought me right back to this place you are talking about. The here and now sacred place within, where god (my true self) dwells forever in absolute peace and love, and where everything makes sense, but not intellectually, I would have to say spiritually, for a lack of a better term. That place (again, I lack the proper terms) I called heaven. Heaven is not some place in the future, out there in space, it's right here, right now, within each one of us. Yes, wow, someone who knows what I tried to explain to people for years, but no one knew what I was talking about. Until you experience it you can't possibly know what it is. It's something that happens to you, an awakening, a gift.

 

And how did this awareness help me? Exactly like you said: it made me more stable, with a clearer mind, more attuned to others and myself, more compassionate, patient, calm, peaceful, etc. Yes, yes, yes! I talk about this in my extimony, but I didn't go into detail and didn't use the same words.

 

Sorry this is turning out to be longer than I wanted, but it's important to me.

 

Please excuse the christian terminology, that's all I had to work with to explain something so intangible. Here is what I wrote last February:

 

... I had the ability to rest in the Spirit at will. All I had to do was lie down in a quiet place, close my eyes, abandon myself to the love of God while speaking in tongues, and then I would gently fall into an altered state of consciousness, where I would feel the presence of God in a way that is difficult to describe, often accompanied by visions and emotional euphoria. This could last from 20 minutes to several hours. When I would "wake up", I would feel completely rejuvenated, alive, happy, loving, with an expanded mental and spiritual awareness. The feeling of well-being could last from several hours to several days, depending on the circumstances of the day. ...

 

... I had found heaven.

 

Then I go on to explain what I did with this gift of awareness:

 

I shared my experience with anyone who cared to hear about it, but to my surprise and disappointment, no one could relate to it. They would say: "Wow, you are so lucky, I wish God would do the same for me." Then I told them how I did it, but they would try and they wouldn't have the same experience. I knew it was a gift from God but didn't know why God was not bestowing this gift onto others, no matter how much I talked about it. Eventually I stopped talking about it because it would make people feel inferior, jealous and sad.

 

I came to the conclusion that talking about it was not helpful to anyone. And if it was really a good thing, then this ability would be given to everyone, not just a few.

 

So my next question to you is: How is having this experience helpful to others?

[Antlerman]

First, you made my cry when I read your response. You express this well yourself in everything you said. To my response...

 

Good answer Antlerman.

 

I could have written it myself, except, like I said, I'm not as eloquent as you are and my vocabulary is limited (English is not my first language). You really express yourself well and you are talking about something I know. It's beautiful, and the video was beautiful too. Watching it brought me right back to this place you are talking about. The here and now sacred place within, where god (my true self) dwells forever in absolute peace and love, and where everything makes sense, but not intellectually, I would have to say spiritually, for a lack of a better term. That place (again, I lack the proper terms) I called heaven. Heaven is not some place in the future, out there in space, it's right here, right now, within each one of us. Yes, wow, someone who knows what I tried to explain to people for years, but no one knew what I was talking about. Until you experience it you can't possibly know what it is. It's something that happens to you, an awakening, a gift.

Yes. Nothing more to add.

 

And how did this awareness help me? Exactly like you said: it made me more stable, with a clearer mind, more attuned to others and myself, more compassionate, patient, calm, peaceful, etc. Yes, yes, yes! I talk about this in my extimony, but I didn't go into detail and didn't use the same words.

 

Sorry this is turning out to be longer than I wanted, but it's important to me.

 

Please excuse the christian terminology, that's all I had to work with to explain something so intangible. Here is what I wrote last February:

 

... I had the ability to rest in the Spirit at will. All I had to do was lie down in a quiet place, close my eyes, abandon myself to the love of God while speaking in tongues, and then I would gently fall into an altered state of consciousness, where I would feel the presence of God in a way that is difficult to describe, often accompanied by visions and emotional euphoria. This could last from 20 minutes to several hours. When I would "wake up", I would feel completely rejuvenated, alive, happy, loving, with an expanded mental and spiritual awareness. The feeling of well-being could last from several hours to several days, depending on the circumstances of the day. ...

 

... I had found heaven.

Again, yes. I'll add for myself that a genuine shift happens a little over 6 months ago, that even if I do not meditate, as you described, I am not what I was before. This isn't just a state, but a growth. I can try to explain, and I doubt I'd have a hard time for you to understand. It's not some euphoria, but a steady, grounded mind, in constantly opening awareness through a process of learning. I did a 'walking meditation' today after lunch at work, and find I can open and walk into that space at will through the course of the day, and the result is a reconnection with that Light in myself. The result is simply put, Peace. Clarity, intelligence, balance. I could go on....

 

Then I go on to explain what I did with this gift of awareness:

 

I shared my experience with anyone who cared to hear about it, but to my surprise and disappointment, no one could relate to it. They would say: "Wow, you are so lucky, I wish God would do the same for me." Then I told them how I did it, but they would try and they wouldn't have the same experience. I knew it was a gift from God but didn't know why God was not bestowing this gift onto others, no matter how much I talked about it. Eventually I stopped talking about it because it would make people feel inferior, jealous and sad.

 

I came to the conclusion that talking about it was not helpful to anyone. And if it was really a good thing, then this ability would be given to everyone, not just a few.

 

So my next question to you is: How is having this experience helpful to others?

Off the top of my head I answer with a quote that comes to mind:

 

“Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.”

 

~Siddhartha Gautama

[Denyoz]

Gee, how weird. At this very moment, I'm writing in one thread that I'm practically in hell, and in this one that I have access to heaven with the flick of my finger. I guess this is the reality of what it is to be human.

 

Are we off topic? I feel we have highjacked this thread.

[Denyoz]

First, you made my cry when I read your response. You express this well yourself in everything you said. To my response...

 

Again, yes. I'll add for myself that a genuine shift happens a little over 6 months ago, that even if I do not meditate, as you described, I am not what I was before. This isn't just a state, but a growth. I can try to explain, and I doubt I'd have a hard time for you to understand. It's not some euphoria, but a steady, grounded mind, in constantly opening awareness through a process of learning. I did a 'walking meditation' today after lunch at work, and find I can open and walk into that space at will through the course of the day, and the result is a reconnection with that Light in myself. The result is simply put, Peace. Clarity, intelligence, balance. I could go on....

 

Off the top of my head I answer with a quote that comes to mind:

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.”~Siddhartha Gautama

 

I can't believe I made you cry, Antlerman. I'm quite happy about that

 

You're right, it's not emotional euphoria, it has nothing to do with the manipulation of emotions, it's more like a deep calm joy. And it can be done standing and like you said, even while walking. And yes, you're right, who cares if it's all just in your head, makes no difference because the whole universe is inside your head. Inside there is all the knowledge, and there is no need to ask questions because everything becomes so clear.

 

Of course the intellect wants to know everything, but this knowledge is way out of his reach. That's why I felt that talking about it was not helpful. Your quote about candles is nice, but in real life, you cannot transmit this light just like that. I could not anyway, I don't know about you. If I lit anyone's candle then I was not aware of it. The only thing I was aware of was that people were attracted to me when I was in that state. From the outside, it looked like I was in love. Anyone not attuned to this light (which was almost everybody) would think I was trying to come on to them. That was my experience.

 

I was 19 years old when it all started and I had just moved from my hometown village to the big city. I was single, available and vulnerable. An innocent young hunk with little experience. So... how can I put it. Without knowing it, I was lighting candles, but at the wrong end. A lot of guys and girls were after me and it seemed like all they wanted was a piece of me, so I had to be careful. I was physically fit, gentle and I probably had this warm glow in my eyes. I was also very naive, and would always look at people right in the eyes, and then smile, so they thought I was flirting, which pissed me off. I wanted to transmit my light, not have sex with them, and there was no way around this. Some probably thought I was a male prostitute, I was even offered money one time, and old men would invite me to their appartement. God, I had to stop this practice, I was too much a nice person, I had to protect myself.

 

Did this ever happen to you? or were you safely out of that prospect zone when it started?

[Antlerman]

You're right, it's not emotional euphoria, it has nothing to do with the manipulation of emotions, it's more like a deep calm joy. And it can be done standing and like you said, even while walking. And yes, you're right, who cares if it's all just in your head, makes no difference because the whole universe is inside your heads. Inside there is all the knowledge, and there is no need to ask questions because everything becomes so clear.

I couldn't have said it better. I want to add something to this about the manipulation of emotions. I fell into a fundamentalist Pentecostal group a couple years following my first two existential experiences when I was 18. I joined them seeking Answers with a capital A for what had opened in me. In their practices it was all about seeking that ecstasy, whipping up the emotional energies, pounding the pulpit, stopping the feet, etc. As a young man I went along, and eventually because it was more the end in itself, rather than a means to an end, it began to leave me feeling like it was more some form of spiritual masturbation. Rocking back and forth up the altar saying, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus..." It was like a group sex orgy with a church full of uber-conservitves in their bun head hairdos and 3 piece suits. It did generate a certain ecstasy, like sex does as well of course, but it wasn't that place of absolute silence. That place of omniscience, if you will. It passed and faded afterwards rather quickly, until you could come back for your next romp in the sack with the Lord.

 

(I'm being a little harsh here. There actually is a place and purpose for this sort of thing in group practice, albeit they didn't understand that. As I said they saw it as the goal).

 

Of course the intellect wants to know everything, but this knowledge is way out of his reach. That's why I felt that talking about it was not helpful.

Talking about it can be in fact helpful to those that are curious, but no amount of talk will get anyone to 'get it'. I know a great deal about how these things function, their role, the experiences of mystics the world over, the very non-exact language that is used, the nature of it, etc. But despite a sizable knowledge about it in my head, none of that can touch this. When I enter into that Knowledge, all that pales by comparison. They become more like elaborate structures made of tooth picks. And don't get me wrong, they are extremely valuable for their own valid reasons, but they cannot and do not impart what this is, or what it can and does do for your person. There is in fact no other way to understand it but directly first hand. It is not a cognitive knowledge. It is not a theory. It is not a theology. It is not a metaphysics. It is not a belief. It is not a faith. It is not an idea. It is direct knowing, in glimmers, in forms, in cracks of light, in sound, in sight, in presence of being, in breath, in Life. It is Knowing as things are; knowing who and what we are.

 

Your quote about candles is nice, but in real life, you cannot transmit this light just like that. I could not anyway, I don't know about you. If I lit anyone's candle then I was not aware of it.

That quote resonates with me for this reason. This will be hard to describe so bear with me. I think you've said the same thing about how others see you and want to devour you. Explaining the difference would be complex and I won't burden this discussion with the correlation between sexuality and the divine in developmental stages (it deals with evolution and involution). But to speak from experience, when we still our own minds, we become aware. That awareness allows us to see others. We see others without judgment, as we no longer judge ourselves. We see them with compassion. We see them as they are behind the masks. Everyone wants to be seen, and I don't mean in a vanity, ego boosting sort of way. We are island universes separated from each other by our minds, how we see ourselves, isolated within our own heads and trying to bridge the gaps between each other though structures of language and commonalities, touching glimpses of each others lights along the way to try to add increase to our own, to find ourselves in others, to find ourselves.

 

When we have cleared the barriers in our own minds between us and ourselves, and us and the world, we see others in their island universes. My first experience of this was when I was 18 and the entire Universe cleft open and I experience Light and vibrant Life energy emanating from everything and everyone. The same flowed out of the most unimaginable depths within me I had never known exists and still cannot fathom exists in all of us. I saw people, light was everywhere around them, and yet I saw into their eyes and could see they were totally unaware of it. They were inside their heads in those separate realities they called themselves. Now when I do as I said, to quite and still the mind, I am able to see people, not quite as dramatically, but of the same nature as then. And here's what happens. They see you. People look at you. You see them without passing social and cultural judgments of approval or disapproval to their egos. You see them, behind the masks. People respond to that. They want to be seen. But that can become quite vulnerable as well, and hence in your case, sex is a 'safe' way to experience something divine without actually exposing your soul.

 

So to the candles quote. We are peace inside. To be that is to draw people to see something hidden in themselves, even if they do not understand or recognize it. Here's another quote from the Buddha to add to that:

 

"The only way to bring peace to the earth is to learn to make our own life peaceful."

 

~ Siddhārtha Gautama

 

And from another...

 

"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself, if you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation".

 

~Lao Tzu

 

I hope that spoke some meaning into this.

[blackpudd1n]

Are we off topic? I feel we have highjacked this thread.

 

lol dude, I derailed my own thread. So the only thing you've hijacked is a derailed train

[Denyoz]

Antlerman, I can certainly relate to everything you have said in your last post down to every word. No argument whatsoever. Amazing. I want to quote you and write "exactly" at the end of every phrase, but that would be a waste of space (as if space had limits), but I think you get my drift.

 

The part about "spiritual masturbation" made me laugh because I had the exact two words in my mind before I even read your post, and I wondered if saying it would be going too far, but there you go, you said it first.

 

The part about seeing with your own eyes "Light and vibrant Life energy emanating from everything and everyone" just put a big smile on my face. You say you were 18, I was 19. That was one hour I will never forget. I remember writing about it in a letter to my parents and I described it as if "I was seeing colors for the first time." Like if prior to that moment, everything was in black and white, and then all of a sudden, everything was glowing in high-definition color. It was surreal!

 

Did you have the one where you see everybody as apes (monkeys)? That was months later and it lasted maybe 5 minutes.

 

I get your bit about being a light in the world and bringing peace by making your life peaceful. This is certainly the purpose of having such an experience while not being able to transmit it using words. The Dalai Lama is a good example (I think. I don't know him that well). But from what I have seen on TV, he emanates Peace with a capital P, and people are attracted to him like flies to a pile of shit (what a nice way to put it, eh?).

 

At age 23 I still hadn't litten any candles, as far as I could see, no one I knew had the experience I had after being in my presence. I was naive enough to think that I could get married and transmit this Light to my wife and then to my children, which was the biggest mistake I ever made. I had no guide, I was all by myself and the bible was my reference book. Eight years and two kids later we divorced. I never lost the ability to return to this peaceful place within me. I don't think this can ever be taken away from you. Once you know the way, well, you know The Way.

 

Meanwhile, back on earth, the bad marriage experience made me question seriously whether this Quiet Place Within Me contained any useful knowledge at all, since it couldn't even make me wise enough to know who I should or should not marry, or whether I should get married at all. Of course I knew who I really was inside, but I still had to do something with my life, and looking at my body, it was obvious that I was made to pro-create. So then why was my marriage such a horrible experience, I could not understand. I mean I was still a mammal on planet earth, what's the purpose of that, once you realize who you really are, then what do you do? You still have to get a job and survive, you can't just let your body die of hunger and thirst while you spend your day in meditation. Maybe I should have joined a monastery.

 

I still have not found an answer to this question: once you find heaven, then what do you do with your body?

 

I did eventually find a wife who had the same light within her, my soulmate, more specifically my twin soul. That was 10 years ago. Meeting this woman was the cherry on top of my spiritual cake, now I was in heaven body and soul! Up until the day I found out she had been lying to me repeatedly for months. THAT was god's brick in my face, where I lost faith in everything, and fuck that peaceful place within me, it's just a pile of crap.

 

But now that I have met you, the only other person I know who had the same experience as me with whom I get to talk, I'm wondering whether or not I should reopen this file and have a second look at this Thing which is not a thing (we have to find a name for it).

[Antlerman]

That was one hour I will never forget. I remember writing about it in a letter to my parents and I described it as if "I was seeing colors for the first time." Like if prior to that moment, everything was in black and white, and then all of a sudden, everything was glowing in high-definition color. It was surreal!

Before I read one word more of your response which I will later and respond to, I had to stop and share this which I posted several years ago. You mentioned colors. Read this my friend, and also the link to my testimony within this from many years ago. We shall continue this discussion. Wow. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/19243-the-doctrine-of-hell/page__st__200#entry318390

[Denyoz]

That was one hour I will never forget. I remember writing about it in a letter to my parents and I described it as if "I was seeing colors for the first time." Like if prior to that moment, everything was in black and white, and then all of a sudden, everything was glowing in high-definition color. It was surreal!

Before I read one word more of your response which I will later and respond to, I had to stop and share this which I posted several years ago. You mentioned colors. Read this my friend, and also the link to my testimony within this from many years ago. We shall continue this discussion. Wow. http://www.ex-christ...200#entry318390

 

Now you got me staying up very late man. I read your link and oh my god, this part: "I suddenly saw for the first time in my life - color. The world was full of color, with vibrant greens and blues everywhere! The World was full of light and love and color, and permeated everything as a sort of living joy that surrounded me, moved through me,..." Yes, yes, I forgot to mention the love, that's all it was, infinite love in color!

 

Your testimoney is also very touching, we have many things in common: my son was also 3 when I divorced, the piano, the bible-study trying to find the link between religion and the wonderful experienced you had.

 

Have to go to bed now. Peace man!

[Margee]

I am glued to this topic. It is amazing. thank you guys!

 

I am at a point where I don't care if there is 'evidence' or 100% proof....I need something in my life or I am going to turn into a bitter, old, pessimestic lady. Losing the christian god..where I found my 'ectasy' has left me empty and cold. I feel lonely and have been isolating here on EX-c for more than a year.

 

Many years ago, after my sister died, I had a profound dream in which she would not pay any attention to me at all in this dream. i was so desperate to talk to her. I was sooo frustrated that she would not pay attention to me. I was heartbrokem beyond anything I ever felt in my life. I was begging her for answers and she continued to ignore me.

 

In the dream I finally screamed at the top of my lungs...''Patti, How can I go on without you in this world...how do I make it here on earth'?.... and she finally turned around and said very calmly and cooly said,

''Donna - it's all in your mind!''

 

Poof........the dream was over and that's what I had to go on........ that was 15 years ago and I am still trying to figure out what she meant.

 

It was one of the most real dreams I ever had and I still have it fully documented in a scribbler.....

 

Help me......show me where to start...... something that makes sense....

I want something again..... I want a spiritual practice......

 

The issue of 'matter and energy'' would be the place i could start? At least there is some scientific knowledge to this concept? Like that video you posted yesterday, Deny?

[Guest end3]

I am glued to this topic. It is amazing. thank you guys!

 

I am at a point where I don't care if there is 'evidence' or 100% proof....I need something in my life or I am going to turn into a bitter, old, pessimestic lady. Losing the christian god..where I found my 'ectasy' has left me empty and cold. I feel lonely and have been isolating here on EX-c for more than a year.

 

Many years ago, after my sister died, I had a profound dream in which she would not pay any attention to me at all in this dream. i was so desperate to talk to her. I was sooo frustrated that she would not pay attention to me. I was heartbrokem beyond anything I ever felt in my life. I was begging her for answers and she continued to ignore me.

 

In the dream I finally screamed at the top of my lungs...''Patti, How can I go on without you in this world...how do I make it here on earth'?.... and she finally turned around and said very calmly and cooly said,

''Donna - it's all in your mind!''

 

Poof........the dream was over and that's what I had to go on........ that was 15 years ago and I am still trying to figure out what she meant.

 

It was one of the most real dreams I ever had and I still have it fully documented in a scribbler.....

 

Help me......show me where to start...... something that makes sense....

I want something again..... I want a spiritual practice......

 

The issue of 'matter and energy'' would be the place i could start? At least there is some scientic knowledge to this concept? Like that video you posted yesterday, Deny?

 

Kind of interesting Ms. Margee. Hang in there, we are with you. Wanted to share this.....when my grandmother died....and we were very close, I had a dream a few months after she died......that she came back and talked with me.....I don't remember the particulars of the conversation, but the understanding I had was she came back to let me know things were alright and to make sure I as alright, but that she had to go......almost like she was violating a code by communicating with people on earth.....

 

It was just a dream and I don't know that it's relevant, but hang in there, we're here for you.

[Denyoz]

How can all this awareness help me? Can it give me eternal life? I guess eternal life is of no concern since I AM eternal life, whether or not I'm aware of it. So I should rejoice then, right?

 

You make it sound easy D. So I would ask do you think it is eternal life in that individuals live after physical death or do you think it means eternal life in that if we promote those qualities that give life, that this will result in "eternal" life. But to answer your question, either way would be a victory. If you have children, you will understand the need to pass something "living" down to them. Kind of scary, the prospects for my children in 50 years.....and maybe not, but yes, it would make me feel whole, full, satisfied, happy.....all of this things provided I could achieve that for them. If you are not to that stage in life yet, be thankful you heard a good message that brings hope.

 

And if you are a skeptic, try it.....maybe not under a Christian banner, but try doing it and evaluate your results.

 

I am not trying to offend, just offering my 2 cents.

 

Hey end3, I wanted to reply to your post, but got carried away with Antlerman. Sorry, I hate to ignore anyone who addresses me, it's such a privilege to have access to all of you here on Ex-C.

 

I don't know if you had the experience Antlerman talks about, I didn't read all your posts. For now I just wish to answer your above question about eternal life. Here is my answer: It has to do with time. The brain always thinks in terms of time, but in reality, there is no time. So the word "eternal" takes a whole new meaning, which is, like Antlerman said, right here right now. Everything is in the Present. The brain hates to hear that, it sounds magical and doesn't make sense, but it's the truth. The only way to "know" this is to have this weird experience, where you "see" that this is true. It impacts your being so profoundly that you won't even question it any more. The brain refuses to believe this, even my own brain. Thus my thread about love is not real, which was written by my brain.

[Guest end3]

Thanks D, i read much of your "extimony" only after I had made that post. Wow , you have had your fair share of "stuff".....so please pardon my statements without knowing something about you.

 

I have moments of experience, and one very large moment in my life......but the latter didn't quite match what you and AM are discussing. You mentioned "deep, calm, joy"....which really fits well with my more regular moments. These moments are hard to describe other than what you are describing. I have a hard time adding anything to that other than a sense of security and connection to something larger, and an understanding or empathy for things around me....particularly people. It would be nice to just sit in that if I could, but the "state" is only moments......mainly I think because life interrupts again. Anyway, your tone sounds better these last few days, and I am glad for you sir. You and I are about the same age, and I think I can identify with some of the same things our age group has been through. Hope it keeps going well for you.

 

Oh, and the job thing.....I used to communte 1 hour one way for 15 years.....two hours out of every day gone. My opinion is, if you have relationships that you value, I would opt for those over more pay. Again, let me just say that is opinion....lol.

[Denyoz]

In the dream I finally screamed at the top of my lungs...''Patti, How can I go on without you in this world...how do I make it here on earth'?.... and she finally turned around and said very calmly and cooly said,

''Donna - it's all in your mind!''

 

Hey Margee! I'm happy to have you on this thread! I'd like to know what you think about this experience we are talking about. Have you ever been slain in the Spirit, or have this Light overcome your whole being, imbuing you with absolute love, peace, and waves fo purity healing your sorrow, pain, past, sins, doubts, regrets, negativity, darkness of any sort?

 

I thought this was what people meant by being "born-again" or "slain in the spirit", but apparently it's different.

 

The dream about your sister is quite interesting. "It's all in your mind!" would mean exactly what we are talking about here, since you found it meaningful to post it here.

[Denyoz]

Oh, and the job thing.....I used to communte 1 hour one way for 15 years.....two hours out of every day gone. My opinion is, if you have relationships that you value, I would opt for those over more pay. Again, let me just say that is opinion....lol.

 

Ha-ha! I think you got the wrong person here. How flattering of you to confuse me with Thought2Much, a guy I really admire. Thanks!

[Antlerman]

I am glued to this topic. It is amazing. thank you guys!

 

I am at a point where I don't care if there is 'evidence' or 100% proof....I need something in my life or I am going to turn into a bitter, old, pessimestic lady. Losing the christian god..where I found my 'ectasy' has left me empty and cold. I feel lonely and have been isolating here on EX-c for more than a year.

I believe the fear, justifiably so, is that we fall back into 'woo' as some like to call it, that we fall prey to our own desire and believe nonsense. I fully get that as I wasn't about to embark on any path without some damned sure footing first. Spirituality does not need to be tied to mythology, nor does it violate reason or science or any such things. It is in essence getting to know yourself, fully.

 

Many years ago, after my sister died, I had a profound dream in which she would not pay any attention to me at all in this dream. i was so desperate to talk to her. I was sooo frustrated that she would not pay attention to me. I was heartbrokem beyond anything I ever felt in my life. I was begging her for answers and she continued to ignore me.

 

In the dream I finally screamed at the top of my lungs...''Patti, How can I go on without you in this world...how do I make it here on earth'?.... and she finally turned around and said very calmly and cooly said,

''Donna - it's all in your mind!''

 

Poof........the dream was over and that's what I had to go on........ that was 15 years ago and I am still trying to figure out what she meant.

Our subconscious minds send ourselves messages to ourselves in these symbolic forms. My experience of God 'speaking' to me in that first experience of mine when I was 18, was me. It was God, as well. It was that infinite depth of who we all are, projected to myself as my mind opened beyond its narrow, separate sense of self as it came to the end of itself in me. Everything went black. I died. I was released. It is a paradox that cannot be explained. I hear in what you say here, that you spoke to yourself from that depth. That depth knows something your conscious mind can't fathom with reason.

 

It is all in your mind. How you perceive the world is what you believe is the truth. But it is not. To use, forgive me, the Bible, "You will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.". That is not a truth of some belief, an idea, or a concept, but the Truth of who we are. The nature of Being. When you experience that, beyond concepts and definitions, you are free from suffering and simply Are. The rest are just forms of Truth, but not Truth themselves. They are truths, relative, temporary, not absolute.

 

Help me......show me where to start...... something that makes sense....

I want something again..... I want a spiritual practice......

Practice meditation. Learn to quite the mind. Learn to become aware. Realize that no single thing is that Truth, no idea, no object of faith, no thought, no vision, nothing. They are all ways to understand what lays beyond them all, and not one of them is that itself. They are all vehicles to open you to understanding, and that Truth is already in you. It's simply a matter of clearing the debris of the mind to let its Purity, like a trillion shining suns, radiate from your very Being of whom you are, fully aware, fully awake, fully whole. All religions are simply ways to talk about these things, or paths to find them. And no one who says I have the Truth you need to believe, should be believed. I do not have that Truth for you. You have it.

[Antlerman]

BTW, I don't want to fall behind in responses, but I'm at work and do need to focus on that.

[Denyoz]

Margee's post is a good example of some of the responses I would get from people when they heard me talk about this experience. I couldn't say: "Come to my church" because it was not related to any church. How could I make this relevant to others?

 

Reading Antlerman's experience is interesting for me because I recognize similarities in the mindset he was in when this happened, and it sounds a lot like mine. Maybe this should be looked into. Maybe there is a mindset you have to be in in order for this Reality to burst forth within you. Maybe it just happens no matter the mindset.

 

Maybe this experience is unnecessary and completely superfluous. For me though, I know I would have never believed that God loved me if it wasn't for this experience. It's the only real personal proof that I have that God exists and that he loves me. Without this experience, I often wondered, how can anyone have any faith?

 

I lost faith when I rejected this experience. I will re-find faith when I embrace this experience like I did when it happened, and accept the knowledge that came with it as real and not just a trick of some sort.

[Antlerman]

Faith is replaced by experience. I actually never needed faith, and I certainly don't now. To me the question of God's existence or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is how do we talk about that? Do we talk about it as a literal being out there as in Christian thought? Not to me. When people hear the word God, they imagine the Christian mythic definition of an anthropomorphic external God. It's not an internal realization. Once that occurs, all definitions are blown out. God is no longer any God. God beyond God, is how Meister Ekhart put it. In fact, it is not necessary at all to call it God.

[Guest end3]

Faith is replaced by experience. I actually never needed faith, and I certainly don't now. To me the question of God's existence or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is how do we talk about that? Do we talk about it as a literal being out there as in Christian thought? Not to me. When people hear the word God, they imagine the Christian mythic definition of an anthropomorphic external God. It's not an internal realization. Once that occurs, all definitions are blown out. God is no longer any God. God beyond God, is how Meister Ekhart put it. In fact, it is not necessary at all to call it God.

 

To the bolded. how do you ignore the similarities to the Christian story. For me, yes, exactly, it is an external thing until you realize the reasons you are doing it, and then it becomes internal. And the analogous version is the Law was external until the Law becomes internal via a new covenant. What am I missing about this. I truthfully think it paints the picture you are describing very accurately. Toi the bolded text, you even admit, essentially, that at one time God was external.....right?

[Guest end3]

My two cents Margee......the brain study I cited suggests that that which you are seeking comes though anything that denies self. I made a list earlier. Music, meditation, works, relationships, .......ANYTHING that gets you from thinking of self puts you in communion with something larger. We learn these things via religion....but they never associate the religion to the reason....and it stays external in that, sure these things make me feel good, but I have to go to church or belong to do them. True, that is a good place to go PRACTICE religion, but it becoming a mature part of you is after you realize this is what brings life to you and others. Hell, I've been a Christian 13 or 14 years, and I just realized this was a "how to" manual just yesterday. So if we are cognizant of those practices that produce life, then the choice is much easier. Again, it's those things that deny self within the relationships you have every day. And take a bit for yourself too....lol. We love you Ms. Donna.