Did Jesus Renege On His Word? ---- Behold I Come Quickly

[Thumbelina]

Revelation 22:12 says: "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

 

What does the bible mean by "quickly" in this context? Its meaning in Greek is "without any delay". It does not mean "in a very short time" though a superficial reading of the text may make it seem that way.

 

Superficial readers look at passages such as Matthew 16:28 and say 'Jesus' prophecy failed, the second coming was supposed to be in the lifetime of His contemporaries.However, one needs to not isolate the texts from the surrounding passages and chapters otherwise it will seem as if Jesus' prediction did not pan out.

 

In the bible I have, there are symbols that indicate when one set of circumstances begin and when they end. The events surrounding Jesus' prophecy in vs. 28 are described from Matthew 16:21- Matthew 17:8. Matthew Chapter 17 describes Jesus' transfiguration which happened shortly after Jesus told His disciples that some of them will see Him coming in His kingdom. Jesus' inner circle of friends (Peter, James and John) did see Jesus coming in His kingdom; Jesus' prophecy did not fail. He gave some of His disciples a preview of what He would be like when returns in His glory at the end of the world. So, Matthew 16:28 was describing the transfiguration.

 

The bible states that Christians ought to know that there WILL be a SEEMING delay before the second coming. In fact, other passages cited by superficial readers are Matthew 24 where the disciples asked Jesus two questions. They asked Jesus“when will these things be?” (i.e. concerning the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem etc.). They then asked Him about the signs of His coming and the end of the world? Jesus tied in the two questions into one in His response. He seized the opportunity to use typology which was a prefiguring of what earth's final moments will be like. Jesus knew that there will be same mess, different day. He knew that virtually the same type of problems that will occur then will occur in the future. The biblical writer also wrote the bible using the popular teaching device of chiasmus. The people of the past had large scrolls and not compact bibles like we have today, they had to commit huge portions of scripture to memory and mnemonic devices were used to help them remember scripture.

 

Matthew 24 as well as other books of the bible use chiasms. There are a number of people who have been studying the literary devices in Matthew and some of them are shown here:

 

Finding Chiasms: How to identify the chiastic structurein the Bible

 

 

http://www.jwstudies...k13__Luke21.pdf

 

 

Biblical Horizons? No. 94: Toward a Chiastic Understanding of the Gospel According to Matthew, Part 1

http://www.biblicalh...orizons/no-94-t

 

It would seem that the bible uses the literary device of chiasm in such a way that they may overlap or they may have central pivot points that would cause a diligent student to look back at previous verses and forward to succeeding verses and compare and contrast them. Writing in such a way really impresses the mind as to the truths God wants bible believers to pay attention to.

 

Jesus also did not want to be too specific lest the disciples get disheartened. They would have been unable to bear all the gory details about their imminent trials and subsequent deaths. In fact in Matthew 24:36 Jesus lets the disciples know that they may not know everything in detail. However He did tell them what they needed to know in order to do the work He had for them but they were sort of slow in comprehending what He was telling them. The disciples did not even fully understand that Jesus was about to be sacrificed, they thought that He was going to wage an earthly war and then be crowned King (eg. Matthew 18:1; Matthew 20:21 ). Jesus had His prophecies to fulfill and could not wait for them to play catch up. The biblical narrative presupposes a “delay”. Matthew 25 specifically says there will be a “tarrying time” (Matthew25:5,19). Also the events outlined in Matthew would require time to be fulfilled. How were the disciples supposed to get the gospel to the ENTIRE world within one short generation? They had no electricity and computers to send emails. Jesus also told the disciples that many of them would be persecuted. They had to play their part in starting the gospel, they were exposed to Kings and this exposure helped Christianity to spread (e.g.Philippians 1:12; 13). It was the same as today, bad news (e.g. a Christian is in prison) seem to spread faster than the good. People were/are attracted to drama. Christianity spread the fastest during the times of persecution; “the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.” People believed in “Give me freedom or give me death!”

 

As the events that Jesus described began to occur the disciples should have remembered and eventually did remember that Daniel 2 (Date written circa 535 B.C.) predicts what will happen and it had a timeline showing the end times (e.g. The two disciples to whom Jesus spoke on the Road to Emmaus had to have their memories refreshed). They would have realized that the timeline predicted what dominant empires would arise and which would affect God's children and the exact order in which each empire will arise. It stated that the order would be Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and divided Rome. The apostles were living during the time Rome ruled and was not divided yet.

 

Seeming delays have been shown throughout scripture. The Bible states that God knows the end from the beginning and He works everything in agreement with His plan. It says He counts everything as completed before it is accomplished for He watches over His Word to perform it (Isa 46:10; Eph 1:11; Rom 4:17; Jer1:12). So from a scriptural perspective God is the ultimate motivational speaker. Skeptics refuse to acknowledge that the God of the bible gives freedom of choice to created beings, He gives them a choice to worship Him or not. Skeptics tend to choose to see worshiping God as the ONLY means to eternal life as God forcing people to follow Him. However, based on what the bible states, it would be nonsensical to not worship a Creator that has the good of everyone in mind. It is stated that worshiping God eventually causes created beings to display the fruit of the spirit.

 

 

 

 

 

Examples of SEEMING delays are:

 

Hebrews 11:9-10 describes Abraham waiting for the promise that God made to him and Abraham having died without seeing it fulfilled. Scripture says that believers (that indicates Abraham too) will see the fulfillment of that promise (Zechariah 14).

 

 

 

Enoch lived before Noah and he preached about the second coming (Jude 14-15)

 

 

 

Noah preached about the flood for 120 years. There was a seeming delay and after Noah and his family were shut up in the Ark they had to wait another 7 days before the rain began.

 

 

 

Abraham was promised offspring as numerous as the stars in the heavens but he and Sarah had to wait until he was 100 years old and Sarah was 90 years old to have the first heir (Hebrews 11:11-13)

 

 

 

When the Israelites were captives in Egypt they had to wait for deliverance, there was a seeming delay but God was working within His prophetic timelines. God had told Abraham that his descendants wouldbe afflicted in another land until the fourth generation. The reason given was because “the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” (Genesis 15:16) Israel’s Exodus and eventual conquest of the land of Canaan was “delayed” until the Amorite probation was over. Prophecies are typically conditional; if people turn from their wicked ways then God usually will stop certain judgments from coming against them. As I said previously, the bible indicates that God factors in freedom of choice and He also displays His foreknowledge; this is clearly demonstrated in the biblical narratives.

 

 

 

The bible states that God’s Old Testament people knew about seeming delays. Many of Israel’s’worship songs begged God to fulfill His promises (Psalm 42:9; Psalm 74:10-11). The people kept asking “how long?” The texts presuppose a time of waiting or delay (seemingly so); (cf. Psalm 89:46-47).

 

 

 

When Moses was seemingly delayed the people decided to frolic and commit idolatry (Exodus 32). God tests people, they were tested and many failed. The biblical God wanted/wants to develop patience in His people (see James 1:3).

 

 

 

King Saul was tested too, he was impatient and the condition of his heart was exposed (1 Samuel 10:8; 1 Samuel 13:8-14; N.B. Samuel did come on the seventh day as shown in verse 10)

 

 

 

In Ezekiel 12:22-23, God tells Ezekiel that that proverb that they say about prophecies failing will be laid to rest for the time is at hand for the prophecies to be fulfilled. In verses 25-28 God said that His promises will no longer be postponed. God sometimes works on a timetable that people can stand and He weaves in the choices that people make into His plan but seeming delays does not annul God’s promises.

 

 

 

God told Daniel that he had to wait. Daniel was told that he will rest (die) and will arise in the resurrection in the last day (Daniel 12:13)

 

 

 

Habakkuk cried “How long?” (Habakkuk 1:1-4)

 

 

 

Habakkuk 2:3 says:

 

For the vision is yet for an appointed time;

But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie.

Though it tarries, wait for it;

Because it will surely come,

It will not tarry.

 

 

 

God deferred His judgment on Nineveh because they were so ignorant and there were animals that he wanted to protect (Jonah 4:11). He wanted to give them time to repent!

 

 

Some New Testament accounts of seeming delays are:

 

Jesus delaying going to Lazarus when Lazarus was ill (John 11:21, 32). Biblical narratives indicate that God has plans and He causes them to be fulfilled.

 

 

 

Jesus again delayed going to someone’s assistance in Mark 5:21-43 because He had a plan that will encourage the faith of sincere people.

 

 

 

I mentioned the delays in Matthew 25:5 earlier in this post. The texts indicate that people will be tested. Matthew 24:44 indicates a delay.Even Matthew 24:48 indicates that a delay will be possible. Matthew 24:37-39 indicates that before Jesus returns there will be a time of relative peace. Thinking people should ask themselves if the disciples had to preach the word and possibly die prematurely for they would be murdered for Christ’s sake, then how is it that the church will become lax if it is to grow first? How would people eventually have time to live a life of ease in one generation? Those events require time.

 

 

 

After Christ’s ascension, the disciples had a clearer picture of Jesus’ mission and their own mission too. Peter realized that there will be a seeming delay and mentions that people who are “afar off” will receive the promise (Acts 2:39)

 

 

 

Hebrews 10:37 echoes Habakkuk 2:3 by saying Jesus will tarry and not tarry. This text simply means that the time may seem long to us but God knows the end from the beginning and He knows exactly when every single event will occur. It’s the freedom of choice that God has granted humans that is actually causing the seeming delay. God made a promise to Abraham and God cannot and will not renege on His Word. God has to make up the numbers.

 

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 indicates that a delay is possible.

 

The New Testament writers did not doubt Christ’s promises.

 

2 Peter 3:4 also presupposes a delay.

 

 

 

Revelation 6:9-11 indicates a delay

 

 

 

Revelation 10:5-6 indicates that there will be a “delay”-- “that there should be delay no longer.”

 

 

 

 

 

Again I say, the biblical texts indicate that God is in control but His nature causes Him to factor in the freedom of intelligent beings. We live in a dimension of time but God does not; what is lengthy for us is not so for Him. The lives of humans are quite short (James 4:1) compared to eternity. In essence Jesus will be coming quickly for no one lives for thousands of years waiting for Him. Longevity for the majority of people is living up to their 70’s or 80’s and even then the quality of life is not good for people are generally sick in their older years. The biblical texts also state that the dead remain in their graves asleep until God resurrects them. The dead have no cognizance of the passage of time so as far as they will be (future event) concerned Jesus will have come quickly.

[stryper]

TLDR:

 

Yes he did.

 

Though I think Mary Magdalene would have more info on his coming.

[par4dcourse]

Behold, I say unto thee verily, I don't give a shit. Amen.

[Thought2Much]

His "daddy" in heaven also seems to have disregarded his prayer that his followers believe as one. And I've never seen anyone get miraculously healed in twenty years of going to church, so he pretty much failed in that promise, too.

[Guest Valk0010]

You do realize, that that article is seemingly written from the assumption that christianity is true, before examining those issues to begin with. Things like seemingly delay, would only make sense to someone already committed to party line. Though a seemingly delay doesn't make sense anyway, either your going to delay something or your not. A fake delay is a inconsistent concept.

 

Btw, don't you think by the time of the writing of Peter, that christians would start getting the drift that the world wasn't coming to end soon?

 

And if a day is a 1000 years to god, how does he understand the concept of soon anyway. So why use the language?

 

Most of the rest of your claims are speculatory besides one that is flatly contradictory

 

http://www.gotquesti...aste-death.html

 

You would think, that it would make sense to say, that with more or less every time in the new testament, you hear things like kingdom of god, or kingdom of heaven. That they quiet literally refer to things like the end of the world. Any other time, I can think off, when that kind of phrasing is used, its for the end of the world. That they would be refering to the exact same thing here. To say its "royal splendor" and not speaking consistently is a form of special pleading as far as I can see.

 

Lets also look at other verses that say similar like this

 

²⁰ “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. ²¹ At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. ²² For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. ²³ So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

²⁴ “But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

²⁵ the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’^[c]

²⁶ “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. ²⁷ And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

²⁸ “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. ²⁹ Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it^[d] is near, right at the door. ³⁰ Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. ³¹ Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

That is plainly describing the kinds of things you would here of in regards to the end times. To build off what you said, even 200 years is a delay. It says within lifetimes of the disciples. Regardless of what you think of the word delay. That is what it means. They all died, and they still had no end of the world. So of course your going to have to have ex post facto for what has happened. You just did the same thing thumb. Admit it, jesus got it wrong.

[par4dcourse]

His "daddy" in heaven also seems to have disregarded his prayer that his followers believe as one. And I've never seen anyone get miraculously healed in twenty years of going to church, so he pretty much failed in that promise, too.

I was miraculously healed of the going to church habit. Saved me 10% of my income! Glory

[florduh]

Matthew 16:28

And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die

before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

 

Are any of those folks still alive? Did Jesus come with his kingdom and everybody missed it?

 

And what does this have to do with mud wrestling, anyway?

[par4dcourse]

Since this is obviously just Thumb evangelizing and is going to be ripped to little pieces, shouldn't it be in the LD?

[noob]

And, behold, I come quickly.

 

That's what he said!

[Thumbelina]

You do realize, that that article is seemingly written from the assumption that christianity is true, before examining those issues to begin with. Things like seemingly delay, would only make sense to someone already committed to party line.

 

 

Yeah but unbelievers are always deliberately misquoting the texts. If someone is sincerely interested to take a look at this article then they will if they don't they won't.

 

 

Valk: Btw, don't you think by the time of the writing of Peter, that christians would start getting the drift that the world wasn't coming to end soon?

 

I did say that in the article, people were slow but if they look at the OT prophecies it would tell them that the end was afar off. Daniel knew but he did not fully understand it for it did not affect his generation.

 

 

 

 

Valk: And if a day is a 1000 years to god, how does he understand the concept of soon anyway. So why use the language?

 

 

 

How would you communicate with a dolphin? God has to stoop down to our level and use relational terms.

 

Most of the rest of your claims are speculatory besides one that is flatly contradictory

 

http://www.gotquesti...aste-death.html

 

 

To the unstable and unlearned it will seem to be.

 

 

 

 

Valk: You would think, that it would make sense to say, that with more or less every time in the new testament, you hear things like kingdom of god, or kingdom of heaven. That they quiet literally refer to things like the end of the world or the coming of the holy ghost. That they would be refering to the exact same thing here. To say its "royal splendor" is a form of special pleading as far as I can see

 

 

The biblical writers wanted to place emphasis on the spiritual realm more than the physical realm.

[Overcame Faith]

Words in the bible do not mean what words mean. Rather, they mean what is necessary so a true believer is not confronted with the harsh reality that Jesus failed to live up to his promises.

[Thumbelina]

Since this is obviously just Thumb evangelizing and is going to be ripped to little pieces, shouldn't it be in the LD?

 

I want to discuss the texts my friend

His "daddy" in heaven also seems to have disregarded his prayer that his followers believe as one. And I've never seen anyone get miraculously healed in twenty years of going to church, so he pretty much failed in that promise, too.

 

What happened with the church was predicted (in the OT also) but I did say in the article that delay does not annul promises. You may not have seen miracles but other people do.

[Thumbelina]

Words in the bible do not mean what words mean. Rather, they mean what is necessary so a true believer is not confronted with the harsh reality that Jesus failed to live up to his promises.

 

The bible explains what it means, it can be understood even by the simple. A seeming delay was predicted and based on correct prophecies in the past, it shows that future fulfillments will be guaranteed.

[mymistake]

Since this is a section for more serious debate I ask for evidence that there was a specific Jesus and that the passages in question represent the actual words of this specific Jesus. (Or did I misunderstand and is this a thread for evaluating the writing skill and style of literature?)

[Thumbelina]

Since this is a section for more serious debate I ask for evidence that there was a specific Jesus and that the passages in question represent the actual words of this specific Jesus. (Or did I misunderstand and is this a thread for evaluating the writing skill and style of literature?)

 

This thread is for discussing the bible and how to interpret it. It's for people who do not depend on the SAB ws et al to dismiss the bible.

[Guest Valk0010]

You do realize, that that article is seemingly written from the assumption that christianity is true, before examining those issues to begin with. Things like seemingly delay, would only make sense to someone already committed to party line.

 

 

Yeah but unbelievers are always deliberately misquoting the texts. If someone is sincerely interested to take a look at this article then they will if they don't they won't.

 

 

Valk: Btw, don't you think by the time of the writing of Peter, that christians would start getting the drift that the world wasn't coming to end soon?

 

I did say that in the article, people were slow but if they look at the OT prophecies it would tell them that the end was afar off. Daniel knew but he did not fully understand it for it did not affect his generation.

 

 

 

 

Valk: And if a day is a 1000 years to god, how does he understand the concept of soon anyway. So why use the language?

 

 

 

How would you communicate with a dolphin? God has to stoop down to our level and use relational terms.

 

Most of the rest of your claims are speculatory besides one that is flatly contradictory

 

http://www.gotquesti...aste-death.html

 

 

To the unstable and unlearned it will seem to be.

 

 

 

 

Valk: You would think, that it would make sense to say, that with more or less every time in the new testament, you hear things like kingdom of god, or kingdom of heaven. That they quiet literally refer to things like the end of the world or the coming of the holy ghost. That they would be refering to the exact same thing here. To say its "royal splendor" is a form of special pleading as far as I can see

 

 

The biblical writers wanted to place emphasis on the spiritual realm more than the physical realm.

 

I can't help but to answer all of this in two words.

 

So what.

 

About the OT prophecies bit, don't you think Paul would have known that or the writer of Peter, and not had to backpeddle.

 

If you look at things like this carefully

 

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You would realize even Paul thinks that the world would come in the disciples life time. He would have understood the OT very well because a scholar of the law, he would have not used the word remain, if he thought that it could be anytime though god actually said really soon and things like this did in Mark 13.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:2-11 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Why be on guard for several hundred years? That would be irrational.

 

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

At least give me something halfway convincing thumb, you have made me think before. But your shooting blanks here.

[florduh]

This thread is for discussing the bible and how to interpret it.

I have it on good authority that the Bible interprets itself.

 

Oh, and it was really funny when you said something about how unbelievers twisted verses to fit their agenda. Look up 'irony'.

[Thumbelina]

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

So what

 

 

The bible is not written for people with a so what attitude, for scoffers.

 

 

 

....

 

Paul understood a lot and the NT is in harmony with the rest of scripture. The bible says they wrote what the HS inspired them to write. They were not only writing for their generation, they were writing to future generations too.

Paul stated that ALL the righteous will be together with Christ. Paul will be resurrected at the second coming. Believers will be one with God, the bible states we will all be together and that is what Paul was explaining. Jesus' coming will be like a thief (unexpected and dreadful) to unbelievers and shirkers for they did not WATCH as they were commanded to do. Jesus was not lying and I said in the article, He told them that He will not be setting dates for His coming, they were supposed to watch for signs and to be ready.

[Guest Valk0010]

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

So what

 

 

The bible is not written for people with a so what attitude, for scoffers.

 

 

 

....

 

Paul understood a lot and the NT is in harmony with the rest of scripture. The bible says they wrote what the HS inspired them to write. They were not only writing for their generation, they were writing to future generations too.

Paul stated that ALL the righteous will be together with Christ. Paul will be resurrected at the second coming. Believers will be one with God, the bible states we will all be together and that is what Paul was explaining. Jesus' coming will be like a thief (unexpected and dreadful) to unbelievers and shirkers for they did not WATCH as they were commanded to do. Jesus was not lying and I said in the article, He told them that He will not be setting dates for His coming, they were supposed to watch for signs and to be ready.

So what to what you said. Your just plainly not making a very good arguement here.

 

And your twisting Pauls words.

 

Writing for future generations, says who you?

[Thumbelina]

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

So what

 

 

The bible is not written for people with a so what attitude, for scoffers.

 

 

 

....

 

Paul understood a lot and the NT is in harmony with the rest of scripture. The bible says they wrote what the HS inspired them to write. They were not only writing for their generation, they were writing to future generations too.

Paul stated that ALL the righteous will be together with Christ. Paul will be resurrected at the second coming. Believers will be one with God, the bible states we will all be together and that is what Paul was explaining. Jesus' coming will be like a thief (unexpected and dreadful) to unbelievers and shirkers for they did not WATCH as they were commanded to do. Jesus was not lying and I said in the article, He told them that He will not be setting dates for His coming, they were supposed to watch for signs and to be ready.

So what to what you said. Your just plainly not making a very good arguement here.

And your twisting Pauls words.

 

Writing for future generations, says who you?

 

The bible claims to be the word of God and in order to understand it one must not scoff so why are you saying "so what" and still trying to determine what it says?

 

I am not twisting Paul's words, he wrote most of the NT and he wrote a beautiful message. I explained in the article that Jesus' coming was afar off but to them it would not be because they died and they have not been hanging around waiting all these years. For them His coming will be quick.

[mymistake]

Okay since this is a thread regarding the writing skill and style of the Bible yes Jesus does violate his word. We see the same thing in Star Trek. In the 1960 they threw together a TV show on a limited budget. It made some money but eventually it was canceled. Then the idea was brought back in movies. Then a number of spin off shows were created - each with it's own budget and deadlines. For each of these products the writers have to turn out a script that includes fictional technology described by technobabble. The technobabble is there as a plot devise. It advances the story. Since there were thousands of writers working on individual projects there are many noticeable errors and contradictions in the fictional technology of Star Trek - especially from one show/movie to another.

 

With the Jesus myth the same thing happened. There were multiple writers and multiple editors working and expanding upon this story. Jesus as a sock puppet says whatever a given author needs Jesus to say at the time. The author would have no way to know how the story would change later or what events would unfold in the future. But even if they could they might not have even cared for that wasn't the motive for the writing. So of course there are going to be inconsistencies, contradictions and Jesus will renege on his own words. It's like in one show they can travel at warp 12 and in another no speed exists beyond warp 10.

 

A Star Trek writer's motive was "Look, I made a profit".

A Jesus writer's motive was "Look, I'm a prophet".

[Guest Valk0010]

Okay since this is a thread regarding the writing skill and style of the Bible yes Jesus does violate his word. We see the same thing in Star Trek. In the 1960 they threw together a TV show on a limited budget. It made some money but eventually it was canceled. Then the idea was brought back in movies. Then a number of spin off shows were created - each with it's own budget and deadlines. For each of these products the writers have to turn out a script that includes fictional technology described by technobabble. The technobabble is there as a plot devise. It advances the story. Since there were thousands of writers working on individual projects there are many noticeable errors and contradictions in the fictional technology of Star Trek - especially from one show/movie to another.

 

With the Jesus myth the same thing happened. There were multiple writers and multiple editors working and expanding upon this story. Jesus as a sock puppet says whatever a given author needs Jesus to say at the time. The author would have no way to know how the story would change later or what events would unfold in the future. But even if they could they might not have even cared for that wasn't the motive for the writing. So of course there are going to be inconsistencies, contradictions and Jesus will renege on his own words. It's like in one show they can travel at warp 12 and in another no speed exists beyond warp 10.

 

A Star Trek writer's motive was "Look, I made a profit".

A Jesus writer's motive was "Look, I'm a prophet".

More or less, hence the backpeddling you see people like thumb doing.

[Guest Valk0010]

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

So what

 

 

The bible is not written for people with a so what attitude, for scoffers.

 

 

 

....

 

Paul understood a lot and the NT is in harmony with the rest of scripture. The bible says they wrote what the HS inspired them to write. They were not only writing for their generation, they were writing to future generations too.

Paul stated that ALL the righteous will be together with Christ. Paul will be resurrected at the second coming. Believers will be one with God, the bible states we will all be together and that is what Paul was explaining. Jesus' coming will be like a thief (unexpected and dreadful) to unbelievers and shirkers for they did not WATCH as they were commanded to do. Jesus was not lying and I said in the article, He told them that He will not be setting dates for His coming, they were supposed to watch for signs and to be ready.

So what to what you said. Your just plainly not making a very good arguement here.

And your twisting Pauls words.

 

Writing for future generations, says who you?

 

The bible claims to be the word of God and in order to understand it one must not scoff so why are you saying "so what" and still trying to determine what it says?

 

I am not twisting Paul's words, he wrote most of the NT and he wrote a beautiful message. I explained in the article that Jesus coming was afar off but to them it would not be because they died and they have not been hanging around waiting all these years. For them His coming will be quick.

Your a idiot, and with that I am leaving this conversation. Your defense of your bible sucks is my point, and I have shown you why. That is why I say so what.

 

EDIT: Changed my mind, not leaving. Not going to on my watch let people fall for her horseshit.

[Guest Valk0010]

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

So what

 

 

The bible is not written for people with a so what attitude, for scoffers.

 

 

 

....

 

Paul understood a lot and the NT is in harmony with the rest of scripture. The bible says they wrote what the HS inspired them to write. They were not only writing for their generation, they were writing to future generations too.

Paul stated that ALL the righteous will be together with Christ. Paul will be resurrected at the second coming. Believers will be one with God, the bible states we will all be together and that is what Paul was explaining. Jesus' coming will be like a thief (unexpected and dreadful) to unbelievers and shirkers for they did not WATCH as they were commanded to do. Jesus was not lying and I said in the article, He told them that He will not be setting dates for His coming, they were supposed to watch for signs and to be ready.

So what to what you said. Your just plainly not making a very good arguement here.

And your twisting Pauls words.

 

Writing for future generations, says who you?

 

The bible claims to be the word of God and in order to understand it one must not scoff so why are you saying "so what" and still trying to determine what it says?

 

I am not twisting Paul's words, he wrote most of the NT and he wrote a beautiful message. I explained in the article that Jesus' coming was afar off but to them it would not be because they died and they have not been hanging around waiting all these years. For them His coming will be quick.

I think your arguements suck, hence the so what. Its a so what, because what your saying doesn't even answer the question.

 

Now to as what your saying specifically. Paul, would probably know the OT better then any other christian. He was a pharisee himself if you trust acts.

 

He would have not, said to believers as well as non believers though in a slightly different way(a plain reading of the text). To be on guard for the world coming to the end.(Again a plain reading of his words). If he thought the same things you did. He thought the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of the disciples. Inerrantists, think Paul speaks for Jesus right? yeah.

 

If he was writing about the end of the world as it relates to future generations besides the apostles and the immediate disciples of jesus. He would have not used the word remain. Its awful word choice if your correct.

 

If he meant as you mean in regards to the end of the world in any other of his letters, then he would not have wrote this the way he did.

[Thumbelina]

To say that, they said that, to have a carrot for them to reach, is a form of lying. They were simply wrong.

 

 

So what

 

 

The bible is not written for people with a so what attitude, for scoffers.

 

 

 

....

 

Paul understood a lot and the NT is in harmony with the rest of scripture. The bible says they wrote what the HS inspired them to write. They were not only writing for their generation, they were writing to future generations too.

Paul stated that ALL the righteous will be together with Christ. Paul will be resurrected at the second coming. Believers will be one with God, the bible states we will all be together and that is what Paul was explaining. Jesus' coming will be like a thief (unexpected and dreadful) to unbelievers and shirkers for they did not WATCH as they were commanded to do. Jesus was not lying and I said in the article, He told them that He will not be setting dates for His coming, they were supposed to watch for signs and to be ready.

So what to what you said. Your just plainly not making a very good arguement here.

And your twisting Pauls words.

 

Writing for future generations, says who you?

 

The bible claims to be the word of God and in order to understand it one must not scoff so why are you saying "so what" and still trying to determine what it says?

 

I am not twisting Paul's words, he wrote most of the NT and he wrote a beautiful message. I explained in the article that Jesus' coming was afar off but to them it would not be because they died and they have not been hanging around waiting all these years. For them His coming will be quick.

I think your arguements suck, hence the so what. Its a so what, because what your saying doesn't even answer the question.

 

Now to as what your saying specifically. Paul, would probably know the OT better then any other christian. He was a pharisee himself if you trust acts.

 

He would have not, said to believers as well as non believers though in a slightly different way(a plain reading of the text). To be on guard for the world coming to the end.(Again a plain reading of his words). If he thought the same things you did. He thought the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of the disciples. Inerrantists, think Paul speaks for Jesus right? yeah.

 

If he was writing about the end of the world as it relates to future generations besides the apostles and the immediate disciples of jesus. He would have not used the word remain. Its awful word choice if your correct.

 

If he meant as you mean in regards to the end of the world in any other of his letters, then he would not have wrote this the way he did.

 

 

The HS inspired Paul to write what he wrote. A lot of people were hoping that Jesus would come back soon and that's how they interpreted the scriptures. They all had to grow in their understanding. I said in my original post that Jesus could not wait for the disciples to play catch up. Peter told Jesus He (Jesus) was the Christ and Jesus told him that it was God who revealed it to him and yet Peter did still betray Jesus after that. John the baptist announced the Messiah but then doubted when he got in hot water. They prophecied things that they did not fully understand but later they understood a lot if not all.

 

When Paul talks about those who remain, he meant the ones who would not taste death when Jesus comes they will be translated.

 

What do you think the early church members would have done if God had plainly told them He was not coming back for over two thousand years?