Did Jesus Renege On His Word? ---- Behold I Come Quickly

[Ouroboros]

@ Overcame Faith, when the bible speaks in parables it is usually to protect the message and its proponents from opposing forces. However when people sincerely want to know they will diligently seek after knowledge. Nicodemus did and he was enlightened.

Oh, yeah, Nicodemus. The one Jesus spoke Greek to.

[Overcame Faith]

@ Overcame Faith, when the bible speaks in parables it is usually to protect the message and its proponents from opposing forces. However when people sincerely want to know they will diligently seek after knowledge. Nicodemus did and he was enlightened.

 

Hmm.... That's not what Jesus supposedly said about why he spoke in parables. It was to make sure people did not understand what he was saying or else they would turn to god and be healed.

 

¹⁰ The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

¹¹ He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven^(H) has been given to you,^(I) but not to them. ¹² Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.^(J)13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

 

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.^(K)

¹⁴ In them is fulfilled^(L) the prophecy of Isaiah:

 

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

¹⁵ For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.’^[a](M)

 

Matthew 13:10-15

[Thumbelina]

@ Overcame Faith, when the bible speaks in parables it is usually to protect the message and its proponents from opposing forces. However when people sincerely want to know they will diligently seek after knowledge. Nicodemus did and he was enlightened.

 

Hmm.... That's not what Jesus supposedly said about why he spoke in parables. It was to make sure people did not understand what he was saying or else they would turn to god and be healed.

 

¹⁰ The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

¹¹ He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven^(H) has been given to you,^(I) but not to them. ¹² Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.^(J)13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

 

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.^(K)

¹⁴ In them is fulfilled^(L) the prophecy of Isaiah:

 

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

¹⁵ For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.’^[a](M)

 

Matthew 13:10-15

 

Exactly, from hard hearted opposing forces, if they are not or stop opposing they will understand.

[Overcame Faith]

@ Overcame Faith, when the bible speaks in parables it is usually to protect the message and its proponents from opposing forces. However when people sincerely want to know they will diligently seek after knowledge. Nicodemus did and he was enlightened.

 

Hmm.... That's not what Jesus supposedly said about why he spoke in parables. It was to make sure people did not understand what he was saying or else they would turn to god and be healed.

 

¹⁰ The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

¹¹ He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven^(H) has been given to you,^(I) but not to them. ¹² Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.^(J)13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

 

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.^(K)

¹⁴ In them is fulfilled^(L) the prophecy of Isaiah:

 

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

¹⁵ For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.’^[a](M)

 

Matthew 13:10-15

 

Exactly, from hard hearted opposing forces, if they are not or stop opposing they will understand.

 

The exposition you linked has nothing to do with parables. You brought up parables so I responded concerning the reason Matthew says Jesus spoke in parables since you got it wrong.

[Thumbelina]

@ Overcame Faith, when the bible speaks in parables it is usually to protect the message and its proponents from opposing forces. However when people sincerely want to know they will diligently seek after knowledge. Nicodemus did and he was enlightened.

 

Hmm.... That's not what Jesus supposedly said about why he spoke in parables. It was to make sure people did not understand what he was saying or else they would turn to god and be healed.

 

¹⁰ The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

¹¹ He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven^(H) has been given to you,^(I) but not to them. ¹² Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.^(J)13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

 

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.^(K)

¹⁴ In them is fulfilled^(L) the prophecy of Isaiah:

 

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

¹⁵ For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.’^[a](M)

 

Matthew 13:10-15

 

Exactly, from hard hearted opposing forces, if they are not or stop opposing they will understand.

 

The exposition you linked has nothing to do with parables. You brought up parables so I responded concerning the reason Matthew says Jesus spoke in parables since you got it wrong.

 

They all tie in. The bible says that the Holy Spirit helps believers to understand scripture. The Holy Spirit works with willing hearts. Willing hearts will understand the gospel. Parables expose people who do this: Matthew 15:8. They also may prevent opposing forces from attacking the messages eg. Paul writing in ambiguous language and John doing the same when he was on Patmos.

[Akheia]

Ah, the punt to mystery again. We don't believe because we just don't want to believe. God only talks to those who are receptive. His words were twisted and made mysterious to prevent unbelievers from tampering with it.

 

What a weak, pansy-ass god. Seriously, how could anybody believe in someone that impotent? You're wasting your soul on someone who can't even talk to people who don't believe. I don't even have words. The way you write about him, Jesus comes off sounding like the Pauly Shore of divinities.

 

Realistically, the message couldn't be tampered with because it didn't even exist in its current form for a couple hundred years after Jesus' putative death. Even Dark Ages writers complained about the lack of evidence for Jesus' life and message in contemporaneous sources. The reason Paul and John write ambiguously is that they're writing about something that has absolutely no evidence for it and they desperately need to keep the religion alive--and mystery religions were doing pretty well at that time in history, so they gave it elements of existing mystery religions. Occam's Razor saves the day again.

[centauri]

The exposition you linked has nothing to do with parables. You brought up parables so I responded concerning the reason Matthew says Jesus spoke in parables since you got it wrong.

 

They all tie in. The bible says that the Holy Spirit helps believers to understand scripture. The Holy Spirit works with willing hearts. Willing hearts will understand the gospel. Parables expose people who do this: Matthew 15:8. They also may prevent opposing forces from attacking the messages eg. Paul writing in ambiguous language and John doing the same when he was on Patmos.

Then Christianity is itself exposed as an opposing force to the Hebrew deity.

It pretends and gives Yahweh lip service while teaching contrary doctrine.

Matthew 15:8, which quotes Isa 29:13, is an indictment of Christianity, Jesus and Paul.

 

Isa 29:13

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

 

Christianity claims to honor and revere Yahweh but undermines his basic teachings with "new and improved" rules for salvation.

Jesus undermined the dietary law and several other teachings.

Paul went further by vilifying the law and replacing it with his new and improved theology based on faith in a pagan human sacrifice.

 

The author of Matthew also has Jesus misquoting Isaiah in an attempt to manufacture a fulfillment.

 

Matt 13:14-15

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

The mission according to Isaiah was to make people confused and not understanding.

Willing hearts have little to do with it.

Isaiah was to carry out that duty, it has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 6:9-10

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

[Thumbelina]

Correction:

 

 

Patience man, I was getting to where I expounded my previous answer. I did not say the other apostasies were not important, they were just not the main one that made Daniel sick to his stomach.

 

This is what I should have written:

 

I did not say the other apostasies were not important, they were just not the main one that made John marvel.

[Guest Valk0010]

Correction:

 

 

Patience man, I was getting to where I expounded my previous answer. I did not say the other apostasies were not important, they were just not the main one that made Daniel sick to his stomach.

 

This is what I should have written:

 

I did not say the other apostasies were not important, they were just not the main one that made John marvel.

Okay, time for secular history, something your bad at. Prove that historically, the one that made John, marvel, happened. If not your just speculating on intent.

[bornagainathiest]

@ Overcame Faith, when the bible speaks in parables it is usually to protect the message and its proponents from opposing forces. However when people sincerely want to know they will diligently seek after knowledge. Nicodemus did and he was enlightened.

 

Hmm.... That's not what Jesus supposedly said about why he spoke in parables. It was to make sure people did not understand what he was saying or else they would turn to god and be healed.

 

¹⁰ The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

¹¹ He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven^(H) has been given to you,^(I) but not to them. ¹² Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.^(J)13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

 

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.^(K)

¹⁴ In them is fulfilled^(L) the prophecy of Isaiah:

 

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

¹⁵ For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.’^[a](M)

 

Matthew 13:10-15

 

Exactly, from hard hearted opposing forces, if they are not or stop opposing they will understand.

 

Opposition to God, to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit isn't the problem, Thumbelina.

 

The real problem is that we're all opposed to YOU!

 

Ain't that the real truth of your failed evangelizing efforts and your continued attempts to bend us to your will, huh?

 

 

This is all about You.

You have decided that in this forum... You are the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Nobody here will come to the Father, except thru Your understanding of God's word.

 

This understanding comes only thru doing what Thumbelina wants; that is, taking her words at faith value, not questioning her un-cited sources, not asking her to validate her anecdotes, not asking her if she's a Seventh Day Adventist, not asking her anything about her Creationist take on Genesis, not arguing with her, not disagreeing with her interpretation of scripture and definitely not begging to differ about anything Bible-related!

 

That last one's a total no-no!

 

Thumbelina's understanding of scripture is above question, above criticism and w-a-a-a-y above anything we hard-hearted, stiff-necked, spiritually-blind, hell-bound sinners can muster.

 

So then folks, if you really want to experience your very own Hell-on-Earth, listen to, agree with and obey only Thumbelina.

 

On the other hand, if you want a full and happy life that's free from guilt, fear and misery, just ignore everything she writes - as you've usually done.

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s.

Btw, Thumby.

This Lion hasn't and doesn't try to rend you.

He succeeds. You've just be rended, again! For the umpteenth time.

 

Other Lion's regularly do so as well.

 

But you'd die before admitting that, right?

[Akheia]

BAA, I think of her non-answers as answers in and of themselves, but not ones she'd be happy about us hearing. Deceptive Christians lying for Jesus and covering his ass for him isn't new to any ex-Cs.

[bornagainathiest]

BAA, I think of her non-answers as answers in and of themselves, but not ones she'd be happy about us hearing. Deceptive Christians lying for Jesus and covering his ass for him isn't new to any ex-Cs.

 

Agreed.

 

Her ploys and plays for our souls are nothing new. But we Lions still have a duty to our newbies, to the lurkers and to the waverers - to expose the rank corruption that hides behind the enticing smiles, the 'true' knowledge and the empty promises of those who claim they DO understand God.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Overcame Faith]

They all tie in. The bible says that the Holy Spirit helps believers to understand scripture. The Holy Spirit works with willing hearts. Willing hearts will understand the gospel. Parables expose people who do this: Matthew 15:8. They also may prevent opposing forces from attacking the messages eg. Paul writing in ambiguous language and John doing the same when he was on Patmos.

 

Remember, two can play this game. Since you are playing the only the faithful can understand game, then I will play the faithful are incapable of understanding game. I will do so by interpreting one of the parables for you and I submit that you, as one with faith, are incapable of understanding this interpretation because your faith has blinded you.

 

Here is the parable:

 

“A farmer went out to sow his seed. ⁴ As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. ⁵ Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. ⁶ But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. ⁷ Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. ⁸ Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred,^(F) sixty or thirty times what was sown. ⁹ Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

 

Matthew 13:3-9

 

Here is Jesus' interpretation:

 

¹⁸ “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: ¹⁹ When anyone hears the message about the kingdom^(P) and does not understand it, the evil one^(Q) comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. ²⁰ The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. ²¹ But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.^(R)22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth^(S) choke the word, making it unfruitful. ²³ But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

Matthew 13:18-23

 

Now, I will provide you with the real interpretation which your faith makes it impossible for you to understand. The interpretation that the author of Matthew has Jesus giving is correct, but the author of Matthew gives it with a wink. It is indeed talking about people who hear the "message of the kingdom" and how different people will react when hearing it. Some will disregard it completely, some will receive it but it will not stay with them for various reasons, and some will hear it and understand it. It is the last category of person who is of prime importance, though, because that person "...produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." This person who "understands it," however, only understands what their faith requires them to understand and they are the person that church leaders are able to bilk money out of. The part about them producing large crops is code for money or things of value. Therefore, what Matthew is saying to church leaders is not to worry so much about trying to get money from the other categories of people because you will either get nothing or very little from them. But the truly faithful are ripe for the picking. They will make you rich because they have been fooled by all of this.

 

Using your rules, if you disagree with me, then my response will simply be that you cannot understand the true interpretation because your faith makes you blind.

 

Now, Thumbelina, is that a good way to discuss these matters? Do you feel I am being fair?

[Akheia]

 

Agreed.

 

Her ploys and plays for our souls are nothing new. But we Lions still have a duty to our newbies, to the lurkers and to the waverers - to expose the rank corruption that hides behind the enticing smiles, the 'true' knowledge and the empty promises of those who claim they DO understand God.

 

I agree entirely. I don't mean don't call her out for refusing to answer simple questions and abide by standard rules of debate. I just mean that it's glaringly apparent to me at least that her refusals to answer speak volumes about her faulty foundations. I wonder if she realizes that.

[Guest Valk0010]

I wonder if she realizes that.

She doesn't otherwise this thread would have been stopped at around page 2.

[mwc]

Patience man, I was getting to where I expounded my previous answer. I did not say the other apostasies were not important, they were just not the main one that made Daniel sick to his stomach.

Bible prophecy is not written the way secular people would want predictions e.g. Asking someone what color dress Auntie May was wearing on October 10th 1952. This is how the biblical God uses bible prophecy to encourage believers and potential believers: John14:29 "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe."

So we're looking at 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. It starts off with Paul indicating that people were being told that Jesus was coming in their lifetime and Paul was telling them to not be distressed. He let them know that even if they get a prophetic dream or vision (the bible says the devils can cause people to have these) or someone told them that Jesus was coming or if they sent a supposed letter from him; they are NOT to believe it for Jesus will not come UNTIL the man of sin/son of perdition/Antichrist is revealed.

 

Antichrist was already trying to manifest itself in Paul's day. (see Acts 20:29-31; John 1-3). In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 it states that Antichrist will be an apostate, the Greek word for falling away is apostasia. It also states that Antichrist will be a man of sin and a son of perdition. Sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4), therefore the man of sin will be teaching people to transgress God's law (Daniel 7:25).

 

Q.What is meant by the son of perdition?

 

A. The same expression is used in John 17:12. Perdition means destruction or annihilation. Judas was the son of perdition. He was a subtle impostor who was undermining Christ's ministry while professing to serve Him. Therefore the Antichrist power/man of sin will be like Judas, covetous, conniving, politically ambitious, an insider and a turncoat (see John 6:70-71; John 13:2; John 13:27) .

Antichrist does not always mean against, it can also mean in place of.

 

Dave Hunt in his book Global Peace on pages 7,8 wrote: "While the Greek prefix anti generally means against or opposed to, it can also mean in place of or a substitute for. The Antichrist will embody both meanings. He will oppose Christ while pretending to be Christ. Instead of a frontal assault against Christianity, the evil one would pervert the church from within by posing as its founder. He will cunningly misrepresent Christ while pretending to be Christ. If the Antichrist will indeed pretend to be Christ then his followers must be Christian."

 

What Dave Hunt wrote about was fulfilled during the middle ages.

Antichrist was just like Judas. Judas was slick! He even had the other disciples fooled and even after Jesus told them who the traitor was they still did not get it (see Matthew 26:25; John 13:26-29). Judas had them fooled till the end.

 

 

2 Thessalonians was expounding 1 Thessalonians because the people misunderstood what Paul was teaching them (see 2 Thessalonians 2:5). Paul had to use ambiguous language because he knew about the prophetic timeline in Daniel and if he had said that Rome would be taken out of the way he would have been charged with sedition and he would have caused unnecessary persecution on Christians. He knew that after Rome there would be divided Rome. In 2 Thessalonians 2:6 Paul was telling them that Rome was restraining Antichrist from manifesting itself but it will be revealed in its own TIME. Daniel 7:23-24; Revelation 13:2 shows the sequence in which the powers were to rule. If one power is ruling then another power cannot take its place; one had to be taken out of the way.

Alrighty then...

 

Is this really so hard? I can't imagine Paul whipping out the Gospel of John, or any gospel or other texts presumably written after his own, at any point if he were to attempt to answer this question. We'll even forget this is a massive apologetic where Paul is actually having to downplay the idea that their lord may actually have returned and no one noticed but is instead pointing out this other "big events" that will allow people to know when the "big day" is going to happen so they don't miss it.

 

The text said that there will be *THE* apostasy *FIRST* (protos - temporally before something else so first or earlier in that this comes first before that) and then the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) will be revealed (apokalyptos - so a vision is sufficient to satisfy this).

 

Now how do we tell *A*[n] apostasy from *THE* apostasy?

 

mwc

[Darklady]

Words in the bible do not mean what words mean. Rather, they mean what is necessary so a true believer is not confronted with the harsh reality that Jesus failed to live up to his promises.

 

The bible explains what it means, it can be understood even by the simple. A seeming delay was predicted and based on correct prophecies in the past, it shows that future fulfillments will be guaranteed.

the bible doesnt mean anything - just a collection of stupied stories for a long time ago - totally worthless

[Guest Valk0010]

A seeming delay is a logical oyxmoron, if not a subtle lie.

[bornagainathiest]

Agreed.

 

Her ploys and plays for our souls are nothing new. But we Lions still have a duty to our newbies, to the lurkers and to the waverers - to expose the rank corruption that hides behind the enticing smiles, the 'true' knowledge and the empty promises of those who claim they DO understand God.

 

I agree entirely. I don't mean don't call her out for refusing to answer simple questions and abide by standard rules of debate. I just mean that it's glaringly apparent to me at least that her refusals to answer speak volumes about her faulty foundations. I wonder if she realizes that.

 

Well Akheia,

 

There could be some news forthcoming on the, 'Thumbelina-won't-answer issue'.

 

I just noticed that another Ex-christian (called nontaxtian) was raised as an Adventist. So I've posted this message to them.

 

Posted Today, 10:19 AM

 

notaxtian, on 01 May 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

 

I was raised in Adventism, and I am VERY familiar with the "end times" talk. I remember every Saturday during service I was reminded of how the world was going to end. Adventists worship on Saturday(aka the Sabbath). They believe in the Sunday Law, which is the belief that Sunday-keepers(those worshiping on Sunday)will pass a law requiring everyone to worship on Sunday. This event will take place during the End Times. Then they will come after the adventists, persecute them, torture them, and kill them for their beliefs. Of course they won't tell you that at first, even if you ask.

 

Hey nontaxtian!

 

When you say Adventism, you mean Seventh Day Adventism, right?

 

If that's so, may I ask you some questions?

 

One of our 'resident' Christian apologists is a certain Thumbelina. She's been asked many times (not just by me) if she is an SDA, but never replies to that request. She also been asked other stuff, but flatly refuses to engage in anything but the content of the Bible. So, is she toeing some kind of party line here?

 

You say that Adventists won't divulge certain things about their beliefs, even if they're asked outright. Why is that? Can you help me out here please?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

BAA.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Maybe the Thumb isn't just being rude, awkward or difficult?

Perhaps there's some kind of bizarre, Bible-inspired rule that SDA's have to follow, preventing them from divulging certain information about their beliefs and/or about themselves?

 

If that's so, that might explain her less-than-open behavior?

 

However, the flip side of that one is, why do the SDA's feel the need to be so secretive?

 

Fingers crossed, we'll find out something soon enough.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Ouroboros]

Jesus will come back soon... 5 billion years from now. It's just a blink of an eye in the world of the dead.

[Akheia]

@BAA - they're secretive because they know the world thinks they're a bunch of preening wackadoodles. Exactly like Amway salespeople don't tell you what the fuck they're selling till 5 minutes before the end of the seminar and are schooled in how to avoid answering direct questions like "This isn't Amway or some other MLM, is it?", religious nuts know to keep the potentially damaging stuff very close to the vest(ments).

 

Me, I'd refuse to be part of anything--a religion, a movement, a salesforce--that dared not speak its own name. But then again, I've got dignity.

[Ouroboros]

@BAA - they're secretive because they know the world thinks they're a bunch of preening wackadoodles. Exactly like Amway salespeople don't tell you what the fuck they're selling till 5 minutes before the end of the seminar and are schooled in how to avoid answering direct questions like "This isn't Amway or some other MLM, is it?", religious nuts know to keep the potentially damaging stuff very close to the vest(ments).

 

Me, I'd refuse to be part of anything--a religion, a movement, a salesforce--that dared not speak its own name. But then again, I've got dignity.

Amway works, don't you know? You just have to begin do it and really, really believe in it, really, really hard. If you fail, it's because you're not a True Amwayist™.

 

[Akheia]

Oh tell me about it. While trying to recruit me, that friend of mine gave me a little card of affirmations I was to keep in my wallet and read aloud to myself at least three times a day. It wasn't a horrible set of affirmations, but daFUQ, seriously.

[Ouroboros]

Oh tell me about it. While trying to recruit me, that friend of mine gave me a little card of affirmations I was to keep in my wallet and read aloud to myself at least three times a day. It wasn't a horrible set of affirmations, but daFUQ, seriously.

We had something similar in our church. We had a pamphlet you could keep in your pocket with 100 Bible verses to confess each day (or twice?). The purpose? To build up your faith (the trick to convince God to listen to your prayers).

[Thumbelina]

They all tie in. The bible says that the Holy Spirit helps believers to understand scripture. The Holy Spirit works with willing hearts. Willing hearts will understand the gospel. Parables expose people who do this: Matthew 15:8. They also may prevent opposing forces from attacking the messages eg. Paul writing in ambiguous language and John doing the same when he was on Patmos.

 

Remember, two can play this game. Since you are playing the only the faithful can understand game, then I will play the faithful are incapable of understanding game. I will do so by interpreting one of the parables for you and I submit that you, as one with faith, are incapable of understanding this interpretation because your faith has blinded you.

 

 

 

 

 

You are playing games? To be faithful all one has to be is be willing to do God's will and then one will know the doctrine. Not my words, the bible says so.

Now, how do I tie in your question with the OP? I did say in the OP that people having freedom of choice is the reason for the apparent delay. God is giving probationary time to people.

 

 

Here is the parable:

 

“A farmer went out to sow his seed. ⁴ As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. ⁵ Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. ⁶ But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. ⁷ Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. ⁸ Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred,^(F) sixty or thirty times what was sown. ⁹ Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

 

Matthew 13:3-9

 

Here is Jesus' interpretation:

 

¹⁸ “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: ¹⁹ When anyone hears the message about the kingdom^(P) and does not understand it, the evil one^(Q) comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. ²⁰ The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. ²¹ But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.^(R)22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth^(S) choke the word, making it unfruitful. ²³ But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

Matthew 13:18-23

 

 

 

 

Why doesn't the person understand the message (vs 19)? What does the soil represent; soil is a metaphor for what?

 

Now, I will provide you with the real interpretation which your faith makes it impossible for you to understand. The interpretation that the author of Matthew has Jesus giving is correct, but the author of Matthew gives it with a wink. It is indeed talking about people who hear the "message of the kingdom" and how different people will react when hearing it. Some will disregard it completely, some will receive it but it will not stay with them for various reasons, and some will hear it and understand it. It is the last category of person who is of prime importance, though, because that person "...produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." This person who "understands it," however, only understands what their faith requires them to understand and they are the person that church leaders are able to bilk money out of. The part about them producing large crops is code for money or things of value. Therefore, what Matthew is saying to church leaders is not to worry so much about trying to get money from the other categories of people because you will either get nothing or very little from them. But the truly faithful are ripe for the picking. They will make you rich because they have been fooled by all of this.

 

Using your rules, if you disagree with me, then my response will simply be that you cannot understand the true interpretation because your faith makes you blind.

 

Now, Thumbelina, is that a good way to discuss these matters? Do you feel I am being fair?

 

 

The bible claims to give supernatural insight so you trying to contrast your private interpretation with biblical interpretation is pointless. Also, the bible agrees with and explains itself so disagreement will be placed on faulty interpretations. Granted, some of what you say is true but the purpose of the parable was not about that. You need to go to the portion of scripture that describes false prophets. Surely you know that the parable and other similar teachings in the bible are saying that the Holy Spirit gives INSIGHT to willing hearts and that INSIGHT is given and or received based on a person's willingness to obey. People reject light at various stages in their walk with God. The biblical teaching is that a true understanding leads to action! This is why the second coming did not occur yet, people are too lax.If the gospel is TRULY understood it will lead a person to God. (understanding comes from a soft /open or willing heart/mind) According to scripture they will want to love Him and serve Him. As I said in the OP and previously in this post, the bible says it is because of the choice of humans that Jesus did not yet return, many people were, are and will be giving only lip service to God.